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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭ nesf

    This by the way is a good explanation of what depression and what it isn't. Long but well worth watching.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭ Logical Fallacy

    theg81der wrote: »
    Sorry I have dyslexia reading is not my strong suit :o

    No worries. :)

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,187 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Eoin

    DeVore wrote: »
    So, Wtf have you got to be depressed about??
    I have absolutely nothing to be depressed about. By anyone's standards I have lived a life less ordinary. With thanks to everyone on boards, I will probably never have to do a ****ty menial job again. My family are all thankfully healthy and I'm at the top of my game.
    If only depression worked that way. It doesn't, it's not rational, it's insidious, it's illogical. Rather bizarrely I'm much more susceptible to it when things are going really well for me. When everything is in chaos and banjaxed I'm like a pig in ****e! Don't think that because someone's life looks great that they can't suffer from this. Don't think that only losers or people down on their luck can be depressed.

    Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

    On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

    Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

    If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

    The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭✭✭ Murdstone

    Hi folks,

    I posted earlier in the thread regarding IQ and depression, I wasn't intending to have a go at anyone, so apologies if it came across that way.

    I've read through the thread, and I can identify with a lot of what has been said. In my own case I have found that I don't really have extreme ups and downs, but just have a persistent low mood which interfers with everything in my life. I have no friends, don't get on very well with family, and I've gotten to the point were on a typical day I come straight home from work, have dinner and then go straight to bed and stay there until the next morning.

    In the past I tried counselling, was diagnosed by a GP and prescribed anti-depressants, and for about four years I made a serious effort to make friends, and although I learned how to talk to people and sociable I never enjoyed it and wasn't able to maintain friendships. I feel like I did everything I could to improve my situation: I stopped drinking, took exercise, had a good diet, was more sociable and so on, and nothing seemed to make things any better.

    I feel like I've become emotionally dead over the past few years. When good or bad things happen I don't feel any different. For example, my grandmother, who basically raised me for the first nine years of my life, and who I continued to be very close with, died last year and I just didn't really have any strong feelings about it at all.

    I could go on, but I'm sure yis get the picture. I was thinking of going back on the anti-depressants and seeing if that helps, I also started doing a distance learning course recently, so we'll see how that goes. But the whole situation seems very grim, I feel like I've missed out on a lot of life already and things are unlikely to improve.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭ Tallon

    Only seeing this now, great post DeV

    Well done

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 Johro

    Kierjan wrote: »
    I have skipped all bar the OP. Thanks so much for sharing. I have a friend and a sibling who suffer from depression. I really appreciate how candid you have been. I think this is the very best thing you can do and I just wish more people, whether they have depression or know somebody who has or not could just be open and discuss it like you just have. Thanks again
    Maybe you should read some of the other posts too.;)

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 Yahew

    The OP has 501 thanks. Best ever. should celebrate that by giving him control of the company.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,704 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Peach

    Eoin wrote: »
    Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

    On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

    Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

    If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

    The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

    My last counselor told me a major trigger of my depression is my current life situation. I don't like living with my parents, need more independence. I don't like my job here, I don't have good friends, I live far from my boyfriend, there isn't enough things in my town to interest and motivate me. I do believe her and I think that moving away next year will do me the world of good.

    I remember at the time I was seeing this counselor I spent about 2 weeks housesitting for my brother. And everyday I got out of bed earlyish, did all my housework, made good food for myself, did things in the evening.

    Whereas today I came home from work, got straight into bed in my messy room, have been pissing about online doing nothing really of interest. Just didn't really care much to do anything else.

    I do have a lot of worries for my future about how I will cope and how I can take care of myself, but I'm trying to remember what my counselor said and hope it will all turn out for the best. :)

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭ nesf

    Eoin wrote: »
    Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

    On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

    Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

    If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

    The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

    Well, you shouldn't be diagnosed with depression (normally) unless the low "depressed" mood persists for far longer than it should. Any of those events can trigger a Depression but it's quite normal to feel depressed for a couple of weeks after such an event without it being diagnosable as Depression. The video I posted above goes into the distinction better than I am able to.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,187 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Eoin

    Thanks, I will watch it later. And without wanting to sound patronising, fair play to everyone who has posted so honestly.

    @Princess Peach, hope you get to move away and get back on the saddle :)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭ rebel without a clue

    cant be bothered about xmas anymore(maybe the last 3 years anyway). have to sit with my friends who are all attached, and pretend to be all happy. ill suppose ill crack a few jokes and be the life and soul of the party and then after, go home. on my own. then the guys will hang around for a bit longer and wonder why i cant get a partner and ill respond(in my head) that none of ye can be bothered to go out anymore so what the hell am i supposed to do??! 1800 dial-a-fella???????

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,085 ✭✭✭✭ Oranage2

    Wibbs wrote: »
    There is certainly an established link between creativity and mental illness While creativity is usually thought of in terms or artists and the like, engineers, physicists, mathematicians etc can also be creative. People who can think out of the box seem more prone to having a slightly dodgy box in the first place. Which makes sense. Otherwise odd, out of the norm associations or original thinking in the mind may turn out to be correct or innovative, compared to a more "ordered" mind that won't or can't make such associations. Other conditions like Aspergers appear to be higher than background with creative types in many fields.

    However O I'm not describing depression or other mental illnesses as an "intelligent persons disease". As you say that would be incorrect as it can affect anyone. Indeed some studies show a higher IQ helps in the treatment of such illnesses. Again this makes sense. More likely to be educated on the condition(s) and more likely to seek and most of all have access to professional help.

    I was (badly)making the same point as Dev. IE a diagnosis of mental illness not a reflection on ones mental acuity.

    Tbh i don't really buy into the thinking inside outside box thing. Also they say it effects creative people but aren't we all creative in our own different ways?

    We hear about the famous artist or writer with depression but the pig farmers wife who has it is rarely talked about.

    I take on board your point and devs about it not only affecting smart people but i really think that because so little is known about mental health that any generalization or categorization is unfair, i believe it can effect anyone and in different ways and what works for one person might not necessary work for another person.

    Edit- not that you made any.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭ The Sweeper

    Well this is an interesting one!

    For a long time, I had no tolerance whatsoever for people with depression. There were some people quite involved in my life who had depression, and their behaviour was obnoxious. Self centred, manipulative, threats of suicide (but only to ensure they got their own way). Sounds unbelievable, but it really was like that. Any and all bad behaviour would be excused and blamed on their illness.

    They were exhausting to be around. I started to joke that depression was actually a contagious disease.

    So the upshot was, I hated depressed people, thought they were self indulgent and unstable bananacakes and would run a bazillion miles if you told me you were depressed, because I was wary of the inevitable drama to come.

    Then in a short period of time (less than six months), my father died suddenly, my OH upped and joined the armed forces which meant he left for three months and I changed jobs to work for a notveryniceperson (crazy bitch of a boss).

    Fast forward six months. OH had completed basic training in the armed forces and went on to intermediate specialised training, and still wasn't home. The OH's extended family weren't speaking to me at all (blaming me for him joining the army? Not sure). I missed my dad, a lot. Work was hideous. Whenever OH made an appearance at home, we'd end up having a row about something.

    I started to feel worse, and worse, and worse.

    The emptiness was like a physical hole at the junction of my ribcage and my guts, spiralling outwards. I felt like it was eating me. The only emotion I had left was anger, and I felt that anything that wasn't in that hole in my gut was so filled it anger it fizzed if I as much as moved.

    It took me six months to go to the doctor and request a referral. I didn't want to talk to my GP, so I went straight in and said to him my dad had died and I wanted to talk to a counsellor because I didn't feel very well. He completed the referral for me and handed it to me.

    I took it home and it sat on a shelf for another three months and I did nothing with it.

    Some days I'd be fine, and then I'd start to slide. I pictured the hole in me like a black flower bud, and sometimes it would start to spiral out, petals unfolding until it was huge and awful and I was filled with it and I couldn't see anything or hear anything or feel anything except how low and beaten and angry I was, and how tired I was.

    Oh Jesus, I was so tired. It was like a mantra I started to whisper to myself under my breath as I was doing things that I didn't want to do - like unloading the dishwasher: "I'll unload this and then I'll make some coffee ohjesusI'msotired and then I might put some laundry on ohjesusI'msotired..."

    And then one Monday I went to work, and it was 9.30am and I was sitting at my desk and nobody else was in the office, and all I could think was I don't want to be here.

    I didn't know where to start. I couldn't touch anything on the desk. I sat in my chair with my handbag clutched on my lap for half an hour and fought the urge to get up and walk out to the car and go home.

    So I called the pyschologist and quoted my referral letter and set up an appointment.

    In I went, day one. The psychologist was a jolly man. He asked me to tell him why I was in his office, and I started to explain.

    And then I started to cry. And I sat in his office and bawled and through the snot and the hiccoughing explained that things were a bit **** and I wasn't feeling great. So he gave me some paper questionnaires to fill out and asked me a bit more about my situation. I explained I was on my own, grief, OH away, job I hated, in-laws that were poisonous, family on other side of the planet.

    He read the forms and did a lot of nodding and then said 'Right, you're moderately to severely depressed. But I can help you.' And then he wittered on about some other stuff.

    But I'd stopped listening.



    No no no, hahahah, there must be some mistake. I'm not depressed. I couldn't possibly be depressed.

    Depressed people are self-centred arsehole drama queens. I'm not depressed.

    I felt like a happy little Klan member, who hung up my hood one night and tucked myself into my lily white bed, only to wake up in the moring, look in the mirror and find out I was black.

    So I went away from our first session and I went home and I sat there in shock and thought 'I'm depressed. I'm a self centred arsehole drama queen.' But I did feel better than I had felt, after talking to the psychologist. He decided we'd keep doing that - talking - as opposed to me taking medication, at least at the outset. He felt my depression was related to my situation and as that changed, I may feel better.

    But I didn't feel that much better.

    And so my understanding began. I knew I didn't feel right. I knew I was tired and angry and felt like I had emotional tunnel vision and as the black flower in my gut spiralled out, my perspective would spiral down to a dot point until I couldn't see my way out of the hole I was in or the hole that was in me. I hadn't realised that was depression.

    But I also knew I could no more switch off how I felt, or snap out of it, or just shake it off, than I could switch off or snap out or shake away the flu. I felt like shit, and I could get treatment for it, but I was going to continue to feel like shit while that treatment took its time to work.

    The psychologist seemed to think that, despite his own diagnosis of 'moderate to severe' depression I didn't need medicating because I was always clean and tidy when I came into his office. I wondered whether there was any point telling him I'd spent the 72 hours before my appointment in the same pyjamas and intended to get back into a new pair on my return home? I considered rocking up in dirty sweatpants with hair like a madwoman's fanny so he'd take how bad I felt more seriously, but decided heading down that road would be a very bad idea.

    I didn't tell my family, because given the distance it felt easier not to. (Especially not my mum.) I did tell my friends. And lo, up came understanding number two.

    The depressed people I disliked intensely because they were self-centred arsehole drama queens - they weren't that way because of depression. They were that way because they were just self-centred arsehole drama queens.

    A good friend of mine talked to me about her own depression, which I never knew she had. She explained that keeping it under control, recognising your own symptoms and doing what you can to ward off the onset of a bad episode is really important. She also explained that, like everything, people react differently to their depression, and some people just make no effort to deal with theirs at all, others try and fail and try again, and yet more deal with it and get on with life while they feel shit.

    Then the understandings came in waves - some thick and fast (there is a reason for this, I can do something about it, and it'll pass) and some gradually ('self care'? wtf is 'self care'?).

    I think my personal depresso-counter is whether or not I find myself muttering 'Jesus I'm so tired' under my breath while doing simple things like folding clothes or driving to the supermarket. When that happens I need to shake things around a bit before it gets worse.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,713 Novella

    Great OP, DeV. :)

    I have been trying to reply to this thread for hours at this stage. I've written numerous posts and deleted them. I don't really know why. I've posted on here before about depression, about self harm. I'm open about that. I mean, it's been ten years for me now so I get it, I accept it. I'm just tired of explaining myself all the time.

    Then I read something you posted, DeV, about depression not being your problem, but people not understanding it. And that hits the nail on the head. The hardest thing for me was never being depressed, and it was never the self harm or the therapy, it was just other people.

    If I wasn't desperately trying to convince people I love that it wasn't their fault, I was being called a "nutter" by a complete stranger on the internet. There was no winning.

    And I still can't explain it. Not how I'd like to.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭✭ bubbuz

    Just want to share a poem I wrote one night a couple of years ago. I was diagnosed when I was 17 and im now 37 and the last 6 years have been the worst. I wrote it but kept it to goes...

    You see the man with the shaven head, the one with the strange tattoo,
    but you turn your head, just look away and brand him as being taboo.

    And the man at the bar with a pint in his hand, all alone, you take just a glance,
    but it wasn't his fault he ended up there for in life we all take a chance.

    The old lady walking the streets at night, her possessions all under one arm,
    Well who would have thought just a few years ago she had dazzled the world with her charm.

    Yet you look at these people thinking what a disgrace, sure they must be out of their tree.
    Well I thought the same just a few years ago and then bam it happened to me.

    So before you judge those people before you, the one's in the soul searching queue,
    Take a look in the mirror and remind yourself how so easily that could be you.

    Those people are scared, alone and in need
    How would YOU be if your life fell apart, I wonder, I wonder indeed.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭ Kanoe

    hey, hope I can add a little to this. I understand the thread is taking a look at depression as a whole and just being aware that the current economic situation may be affecting many people who venture here in a similar way, I read this earlier and thought it might be helpful/of interest to those experiencing the difficulties of unemployment or struggling to make ends meet.
    I know it affects people more now than ever before.
    Mounting debt and intimidation from the bank brought George Mordaunt to the brink. When he found himself looking at his sleeping son and imagining his own funeral, he decided enough was enough, writes CONOR POPE

    GEORGE MORDAUNT’S story starts in the dead of night, with thoughts of suicide. Mounting personal debt he could not hope to pay, aggression and intimidation from one of the State’s main banks and the constant and stressful struggle to keep his Clonmel car dealership afloat in the face of an almost complete collapse in sales had taken him to the brink.

    After months of sleepless nights, it all came to a head in a Dublin bank two years ago.

    “Save the sob story. We want our money. If that means

    taking your family home, we’ll do it,” he was told at a meeting arranged to discuss his mounting debts.

    “I was stunned. Couldn’t believe what I was hearing. This banker, playing with words, puffing his chest out in a display of ego and bravado, telling me how ruthless he would be with my home, my livelihood, my life,” he writes in his recently published book Shepherd’s Pie.

    That night he lay in bed “feeling nauseous and gripped with fear”. He couldn’t sleep and try as he might he could not think of a way to keep a roof over his family’s head. He couldn’t see a way out. “My heart was pounding so hard I could hear it in my chest, my mind actively replaying the scene in the bank’s boardroom that morning.”

    Convinced he was having a heart attack, he got out of bed and started pacing the corridors of his house. He found himself in his eight-year-old son’s room.

    “I gazed down at him and thought about another man, my age, who I had known very well. His kids were the same age as mine and he had lost his battle with control and fear one evening.”

    That man had taken his own life. He thought to himself that he couldn’t let that happen. “But, bizarrely, I found myself imagining that it had. I sat on the side of my son’s bed and imagined my own funeral, with my son and my daughter walking behind a hearse. I wondered whether I was losing my mind but knew I wasn’t. I allowed the pain of the image to take hold and then something I wasn’t expecting happened.”

    He started to feel anger.

    “Are you going to let those f**kers deprive these children of their father? Are you going to allow them to attack your family and everything that your family has created? Are you going to let them inside the gates of your home or are you going to meet them head on and tell them to f**k off?”

    He decided on the latter.

    The following morning Mordaunt called the bank official who had apparently relished playing hardball with him. This time, instead of being cowed he was raging. The conversation was short and to the point.

    “Listen to me very carefully,” he said. “I refuse to let you or any other bank force my wife and children to walk behind a hearse, so do your worst but don’t ever call me again.”

    The bank in question backed off. They issued credit notes for his outstanding loans “and they disappeared out of my life”

    DURING THE BOOM years Mordaunt was flash, and his Clonmel car dealership was big. He owned four showrooms and was selling 40 new cars a week. As part of his sales patter, he would offer potential buyers free helicopter rides. It was all terribly Celtic Tiger.

    Then, in 2008, the economy fell off a cliff and took most of his business with it.

    He called his book Shepherd’s Pie because, he says, he recalls coming home from a particularly stressful meeting with the bank in Dublin one winter evening in 2009 and seeing his children eating that meal at his kitchen table. At that moment he became acutely aware that they were utterly dependent on him and he was in the process of letting them down.

    He documents, with unflinching honesty, how he nearly lost control and how he regained it. In the introduction to the book, Fergus Finlay, the chief executive of Barnardos, describes it as “the most searingly honest account I’ve read anywhere about what it was like to ride the Tiger – and ultimately to be almost devoured by it”. Finlay says it is “one of the best books you’re ever likely to read about what went wrong in our country and why” but will also show people “how to come out of it all as a better, stronger person”.

    He is not wrong.

    Mordaunt’s story is little short of riveting and may act as an inspiration to thousands of people and small businesses who feel they have run out of options because of the levels of debt they have built up.

    Speaking to Pricewatch last week, he said he had been overwhelmed by the response from readers, many of whom said his fears of being driven to suicide chimed with their own.

    He says that throughout the course of the recession people have been infuriated by reports of self-serving bankers, developers and government ministers. But the personal trauma and the devastating effect this crisis has had on small businesses and those trying to keep them afloat has been under-reported, he says.

    Prompted by the response to the book and the steady stream of mails from people who say they have been bullied by banks and are close to breaking point, Mordaunt is embarking on something of a crusade. More needs to be done to highlight the fear people feel, he says.

    He has a no-nonsense philosophy on dealing with banks and managing debt. He also says debt forgiveness is a reality, despite frequent denials by the banks. For many, he says, it depends on the approach that is taken.

    When dealing with banks people need to talk to the right people and prepare carefully, he says. Crucially, they need to show they “haven’t got the ability to pay” their debts by documenting every outgoing and being straight.

    “If you’re meeting your repayments but it is destroying every other aspect of your life then you have to stop, but you can’t just stop: you have to demonstrate that you can’t pay,” he says.

    He says “the business people of Ireland have been treating the bankers with the same respect their parents gave the clergy in the 1950s. We need to play more hardball with them.

    “And the bankers need to be conscious of the mental state of the people they are dealing with. Some of the individuals going in will not have eaten in days, won’t have slept and will be incredibly scared. That makes them very vulnerable.”

    Mordaunt’s experience and his correspondence with people who have read the book echo comments made by the Master of the High Court, Edmund Honohan, earlier this year. He criticised banks and other creditors for pursuing “to the bitter end” debtors who simply cannot pay, with the objective of writing off debts to achieve a tax benefit. He said that meaningless “accountancy exercises” were causing social disquiet and driving some people to suicide.

    His comments are backed up by extensive research. A study published in the Lancet earlier this year found that suicide rates had risen sharply across Europe since the banking crisis, with growing numbers struggling to cope with debt, unemployment and austerity measures.

    In Ireland, it said, the problem was particularly acute. It recorded a 13 per cent rise in suicides between 2007 and 2009, a rise it attributed to unmanageable debts and poor prospects for economic recovery.

    Speaking when the study was published this summer, Dr David Stuckler, its lead author and a lecturer in sociology at the University of Cambridge, said human beings were “the real tragedy of an economic crisis, so it is terribly frustrating that government leaders have not only failed to invest in programmes that protect people but have actually done the opposite . . . This has been the pattern for three-and-a-half decades, but lessons have not been learnt.”

    Mordaunt has learned lessons. He has completely redesigned his business and dumped the new-car sales in favour of selling UK imports all over the country and has launched, which promises to find second-hand cars based on precise requirements.
    “I have recovered. I was able to get fresh money. I sorted my head out and I parked my debt. Who wouldn’t recover in those circumstances?”

    Now, he says, he wants to help other people come to terms with their situations, too.

    Shepherd’s Pie by George Mordaunt is published by Mercier Press

    ‘ Don’t bottle things up’

    THE DIRECTOR of the Samaritans in Ireland, Suzanne Costello, says that while recession and economic difficulties heighten the risk of suicide, they do not make it inevitable.

    She says that since 2008 one in 10 calls to the organisation in Ireland have been directly related to financial matters but adds that the issue also permeates many other calls. She says that while it is a “complex set of events” that lead people to develop suicidal thoughts, a financial crisis such as the threat of home repossession can be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

    She points out that many of those in severe difficulty as a result of the recession are people, like George Mordaunt, who are in their 30s and 40s and find they are saddled with enormous debts and can’t see any way out of the crisis.

    A lot of men, in particular, regard financial weakness as “a huge blow to their self-esteem”, she says, and adds that books like Shepherd’s Pie by Mordaunt, which show someone coming close to the brink but turning things around, can be very positive and empowering. She stresses the need for people to keep communicating with family, friends, a GP or the Samaritans and stresses that it is “very important not to bottle things up”.

    SIGNS TO LOOK OUT FOR – Take notice when someone is:

    Withdrawn or unsociable

    Low-spirited or depressed

    Drinking alcohol excessively or becoming dependent on drugs

    Finding it difficult to relate to others

    Taking less care of themselves

    Acting out of character

    Tearful or constantly fighting back tears

    Being excessively irritable

    Finding it hard to concentrate

    Feeling less energetic or particularly tired

    Eating much less or much more than usual

    Putting themselves down (self-mockingly as well as seriously), eg “nobody loves me” or “I’m a waste of space”

    The Samaritans can be contacted on 1850 60 90 90 or [email protected]

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭ opinion guy

    i'll look into them so. i got a couple of books before too. got to a point in my CBT one where you've to make a list of things that you like about yourself, and couldn't come up with a single thing. so that's where I stopped.
    thanks but what i meant is that I couldn't proceed in the book without having gone through that part. and thinking now... I still don't have anything to write. I will, at some point, take a look at some books, but it's hard to have any hope for anything at this point.

    Judging by your posts on boards you have a good sense of humour. Your posts are generally humerous, entertaining and inciteful. And I'm a tough critic :)

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,438 Morag

    Eoin wrote: »
    Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

    On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

    Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

    If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

    The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

    Some times it's circumstantial and when a person's life circumstances changes again or they learn to adjust to those changes or they change themselves it can go away and if they are really, really lucky it doesn't come back again.

    For some people it's different circumstances at different times in their lives and they get out the other side but when thing get tricky they slide back into it. It is the black dog trailing you waiting to take another bite out of your ass. Some times You don't even know it's happening, until you find yourself in the middle of it again.

    Other times you can figure out the warning signs and catch yourself and adjust and make changes and mind yourself more and give yourself more slack and you don't end up down that road.

    Sometimes when you find yourself in similar circumstances to when life was last tricky and you had a depressive episode you can find that the echos of how you were then can swamp you and drag you back into another depressive state. Keeping track of depressive triggers can help.

    I recently had to go to some place that the last time I was in and out of this place (which had nothing to do with me, but with what a family memeber was going through) I was in the depths of depression and even with being well atm, walking up that road and being in the same building and seeing some of the same people, I found myself remembering and slipping back into that frame of mind and emotion.

    I'm just glad I copped and and can take measured to make sure I don't do that, that I know me and my life has changed from that time 4 years ago.
    Currently that is working, keeping trying to move forward and count blessings and changes can help, there are days it doesn't but the pass and if they don't well then it's time to go back to the dr.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,764 ✭✭✭✭ stupidusername

    Judging by your posts on boards you have a good sense of humour. Your posts are generally humerous, entertaining and inciteful. And I'm a tough critic :)

    :) thanks.wouldn't quite put it on a list though

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭ opinion guy

    :) thanks.wouldn't quite put it on a list though

    Why not ?
    Seems like you are being hard on yourself. Humour and incitefulness are important qualities that many people would be envious of.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,764 ✭✭✭✭ stupidusername

    Why not ?
    Seems like you are being hard on yourself. Humour and incitefulness are important qualities that many people would be envious of.

    Oh I know,i just wouldn't agree that i'm funny though.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,050 Da Shins Kelly

    Great post. Important to get the message out there.

    As for the feeling of depression, someone pointed out that depression is more than just a feeling of nothingness, but also a feeling of overwhelming sadness. I would also add that, in my experience, it can manifest itself in anger too - feeling angry for no apparent reason, getting angry at little things, not being able to express your anger, or expressing it in an extreme way. I guess depression can be different for everyone, and any conversation about it is good.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 57,825 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel

    You thought you did some good things in your life, DeV? Well you have now. This thread is saving lives. Thank you for having the courage to post it - right here in After Hours.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 perfect_life

    I'd just like to say well done for showing the bravery to 'come out' publicly as a depressive.

    I'd also like to reiterate some of the comments. I got a first class honours degree in a top university, I'm somewhat well known as a model / writer / TV personality but less well known as a depressive as it's not information I've placed in the public domain. I guess I wanted to reiterate DeVore's message that depression can affect ANYBODY. For me, being seen as someone 'beautiful', intelligent, successful and somewhat famous has no bearing on the fact that I suffer from depression. Anybody I've told that I suffer from depression has been deeply surprised as from their perspective I'm always 'having a laugh', always 'in good form'. But that's not true on the inside.

    So many successful sporstmen have suffered from depression (Alan Quinlan, Dessie Farrell here in Ireland), as have some of the great leaders of the world (Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill), and actors (Harrison Ford, Christian Bale, Ewan McGregor), singers (Beyonce, Alicia Keys)... so I don't think anybody has any business saying that depressives are weak individuals (say it to Alan Quinlan's face..!).

    I came across this poem before, I think it sums up a lot about me and the great 'mask' of depression that people unfortunately still feel they have to wear...

    She's beauty, style, poise and grace,
    At least she appears to be.
    But no one knows the girl who hides
    Behind the face they see.

    Her self-esteem is all but gone,
    Of her ego there's barely a trace.
    There's so much pain behind the mask
    She wears upon her face.

    Depression has controlled her life
    With far too many tears,
    Her smile is fake; she's good at it,
    She's been doing it for years.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭ opinion guy

    Oh I know,i just wouldn't agree that i'm funny though.

    Well, thats the thing about depression - the emotional darkness doesn't let you see your good qualities. But as an objective outsider with no emotional drivers, I'm saying you're funny and inciteful. I'm sure many here would agree with me! So take that as an objective feedback, and see if you can challenge one little part of that emotional block.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,791 ✭✭✭✭ hatrickpatrick

    DeVore wrote: »
    Depression is not sadness.
    One of the biggest misunderstandings about depression is that its like being really sad. It's not. It's like being *nothing*. Not sad, not happy, nothing. No joy, no sorrow. Flat line. Sure it can be triggered, exacerbated or deepened by bad, sad news... But the feeling is not one of sadness, it's more a flat feeling of inertia.
    To give you an idea, there was a day, not years ago, I got up and made myself a coffee and discovered I had no milk and thought: Why do I even bother, the world is ****ed and I can't fix it and went back to bed for the rest of the day. Two days later I couldn't figure out why someone had left a cup of black coffee go cold in my kitchen... :)

    I've never read anything on Boards which rings true as much as this. Depression isn't sadness, it's what I can only describe as emptiness. Imagine complete and total apathy about absolutely everything - that's depression. Sadness is a part of it, but it's much, much worse than that.

    Sorry to hear you suffer with this DeVore. I really, really hope you get through it. I'm still working on it, in my case it is getting better on its own, slowly, but I won't give anyone that hope as I know it doesn't work that way for everyone. Talk to someone and get help with it. Trying to handle it on your own will destroy you - in my case, it destroyed my relationships with a lot of my friends.

    Good luck, and maximum respect for having the balls to make this thread in the first place, a lot of people wouldn't have. Fair play.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭✭✭ TaxationTheft

    Respect Dev. This has the potential to save many lives. There is much conflicting information about depression out there, so bringing people up to speed is a good idea in itself.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,061 PickledLime

    Although i haven't been directly diagnosed with depression, i've recently been prescribed antidepressants and also been recommended for psychotherapy. Rather than dance around the stigma of it, i talk about it in a very matter-of-fact fashion, like i would if i broke a leg or got stiches. It's a medical condition after all.

    I must admit i laughed when i read the bit about the coffee sitting in the kitchen two days later. Partially because it was something of a funny image but also because i've done EXACTLY the same thing myself and had people question my sanity over seemingly loosing hope in humanity over something as inconsequential as a cup of tea/coffee.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,966 ✭✭✭ tolosenc

    I suffer depression too. So much of this rings true and resonates with me, and the overwhelming majority of it you just can't understand without actually experiencing it, which I hope that no one does.

    It is not a sadness, and someone is not depressed about something, they are just depressed. There may be a trigger, but it's not one thing that is all consuming. There is no sense or logic behind it. It's not sadness, it is literally a suppression of all emotions, for me anyway. You feel numb. It seems stupid. I recently caught my elbow off the door while walking out of the room, and cue 4 days of not getting out of bed, washing, eating, shaving, you name it. It is horrible, and among the emotions supressed is hope. You don't have any hope. There's no point in anything, why bother trying to get help, no one can do anything for you. I've never seen anyone professionally about it, because whenever I'd actually do anything about it, I'm not depressed.

    Then there is the fear of talking to someone close about it. People who don't understand 99 times out of 100 just make things worse. My dad is a prime example of this. The "just get out of bed and do something with yourself" attitude doesn't work. I'm not sure if that's me being stubborn, or is it all sufferers? It's also the fear of being ostracised. The fear of people looking at you differently. It's hard to explain. In the darker places you feel like you don't deserve for anyone to understand. In general, I agree with the sentiment of other posts, in that I find that the major problem with depression isn't the depression itself, but rather attitudes and misconceptions in the wider society that force people to alienate themselves more than they already do.

    Another poster mentioned suicide contemplation. This is something that I do the exact same. I weigh up different methods, but I'd never come close to trying it. For starters, when I'm in that place I'm far to apathetic to do anything.

    I link my depression to stress: emotional, mental or physical. I also link it to boredom. I've had it far worse since not having a job. There is a lack of purpose about the day to day, and that can fuel any track you might be on.

    Like many of you, I was also bullied as a kid. I don't know about you guys, but I snapped in school one day at about age 15 (pushed one of the bullies' head through a partition wall :O), and it was probably the highest point on my depression cycle. Feeling the most in control that I ever did.

    But, what's most important, is that you know that there is help for you. This is not a never ending spiral downwards. Yes it takes time, a lot of time, and it never fully goes away, but you will feel better. You may not want to hear it, but you want to know it. Don't be shy, don't be afraid. There is nothing wrong or abnormal about you.

    I know all about it. I've alienated myself from friends and don't quite know how to go about mending fences, but I'll figure it out.

    I'm big into rugby, and this was posted on the rugby forum a while ago, when I was doing pretty badly. It really helped. It brought me to tears, which is the break through. John Kirwan, one of the greatest All Blacks of his time details his depression and how he went about sorting himself out.

    I may not be online 24/7, but don't ever hesitate to PM me if you just want an understanding ear to hear you.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭ flutterflye

    I just watched that video.
    For anyone not bothered to watch it, a simplistic version of the conclusion the guy draws is;

    There are two versions of a gene.
    If we get the 'bad' type, we are predisposed to depression if we are faced with major stressors or chronic stress.
    These genes control our stress hormones.

    We all know what stress responses can do to a body - poor sleep, digestion, psycho motor retardation, adrenalin over activation etc...

    When stressors occur, if there is no outlet, no predictability, no support, and/or we feel like we are not in control, then we go into a state of learned helplessness.

    Thus the factor tying the biology, physiology, cognition and emotion all together is stress.

    There was alot more, but that's all I remember off the top of my head! :)