Martin Breheny's 2011 Football ratings

Flukey

2011 Football Ratings

Thoughts and opinions?

Fireball07

How can Limerick be 20th???

It makes no sense...

theoneeyedman

Flukey wrote: »

2011 Football Ratings

Thoughts and opinions?

Martin Breheny is a poor journalist without a whit of imagination in his coverage of GAA. His opinion is as worthwhile as any poster to this forum or any other and is nothing to get worked up about one way or another

overshoot

he is being awfully generous to monaghan, relagated from d1 (even if it was pts difference) gave tyrone a bit of a fight but well beaten by offaly who are 22nd which drops them 2 places?
mayo should be above kildare, laois' jump is a bit too much for my liking too, didnt follow up a good league campaign
id just about agree with the top 4 after that not much

nice_guy80

Martin showing his love of Galway GAA yet again

championship is all that matters for 95% of fans and players.
league positions aren't really relevant when

Syferus

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Martin showing his love of Galway GAA yet again

championship is all that matters for 95% of fans and players.
league positions aren't really relevant when

..when you're in the elite three or four. I can tell you that one of the most important things for the development of Roscommon football would be getting to division 2 and playing teams like Kildare rather than playing glorified challenge matches against Kilkenny.

The league is test bed for every long-term successful team in the country and if Kerry were playing London and Kilkenny every year rather than Dublin and Cork in the league I'd bet my house on them being a significantly poorer team.

Flukey

The League is important, but many counties choose to ignore that. For the first time in years, Dublin took the league seriously this year. They now have Sam. Look back over recent years and see the other teams that do well in or win the league, and then look at who still stands come August and September. Getting into the winning habit early in the year and building confidence and getting your team right is important. That is good preparation for the championship. With the nature of our league turning into a knockout format towards the end, it makes it even more important. Not every team that does well in the league then does well in the championship, and some teams that do well in the championship may not have had a great league campaign, but more often than not those that do well in the league do well in the championship. So if championship is all that matters, then it is well worthwhile putting that major effort into the league.

Justin10

Not to offend anyone but after 10 teams are pretty poor. How are Laois at 11?

Armaghmagic

My beloved Armagh are 9.....sounds about right (a bit high if anything). Cant believe how far I had to scroll down to find Wicklow, a team Armagh scraped past after a replay. Kildare are a better team than Donegal too!

cournioni

Armaghmagic wrote: »

Kildare are a better team than Donegal too!

Eh?! How? Didn't Donegal beat Kildare in the championship earlier this year? :rolleyes:

Gophur

Why anyone would be interested in the thoughts of a journalist, whose opinions are no more valid than any of ours, is amusing.
(As are the reactions of some who disagree with him.)

Mountainlad

Gophur wrote: »

Why anyone would be interested in the thoughts of a journalist, whose opinions are no more valid than any of ours, is amusing.
(As are the reactions of some who disagree with him.)

Because he's paid to do it, it is generally understood that he should have a good concept of the sport as he has been analyzing it for quite a while, and people will read his articles on occasion and find themselves agreeing with the content. It is also a (slightly) controversial opinion on a topic of interest to those who like Gaelic Football (one of the things fans most commonly like to do at the end of the year is rank teams on how they performed).

While his opinion is no more valid than anyone elses, what you should find more amusing (or strange), is why anyone would be interested in the opinions of a forum poster, someone they do not know who might have no idea what they're talking about and are potentially either:

A) Recycling the opinions of a different journailst
Waiting to see what the general consensus is on an issue and then rowing in with them

As for the article, I don't agree with it to be honest, most notably the Galway ranking is laughable, but I can't really understand how they were ninth last year either. Also, Limerick are very hard done by, but then what should we expect when Munster is 'the weakest province'! :rolleyes:

D'Agger

On Kerry:

One suspects if they were four points clear of Dublin again they would have continued with the enterprise that got them there in the first place, rather than seeking to hold on to what they had.

WTF is this shít he's on about? Dublin got a goal and turned the tide - Kerry didn't try to 'hold on to what they had' at all - I think he's (a) Slagging off Kerry in a big way here and (b) Doing Dublin a disservice to the nature of how they came back in the final.

dw_newtown

How are Laois better than Meath??? i'm surprised Meath are 14th to be honest, we had a crap season by all accounts, barely survived in Division 2 and a token victory over Louth to keep them quiet was all we done. The only significant progress made was the master-stroke to play Shane O'Rourke in midfield, an area Meath have struggled in for years. Get the defence sorted in the league this year and we'll be in with a shout of another Leinster. Banty deserves more credit than he's gettin from the Meath people but we're were worse than 14th in the country this year.

aidan24326

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Martin showing his love of Galway GAA yet again

What are you talking about? He's from Galway but relly I don't see where he's 'showing his love' in this article. He admits that the downward slide has continued, and ranked us a lowly 15th, the lowest we've been in about 20 years.

His point that Galway might have 'bottomed out' is a fair one, as histotically this is probably about as low as we've ever fallen, though I wouldn't be foolish enough to assume that the only way is up.

If you think Galway are too high at 15 that's fair enough but there's alot of mediocre and poor teams below us too. Limerick should be a few places higher and maybe Wicklow aswell, but other than that most of the other lowly ranked teams are where they are for a reason.

thewildcat

alot of rubbish if you were to put the winners of sam over the last 40 years
what would the top ten be

1' kerry
2 Dublin
3 cork
4.meath
5 offaly
6 tyrone
7 galway
8 Down
9 Armagh
10 Derry
11 Donegal

heres the hurling

1 kilkenny
2 cork
3 Tipp
4 offaly
5 Galway
6 clare
7 wexford
8 Limerick

Fireball07

thewildcat wrote: »

alot of rubbish if you were to put the winners of sam over the last 40 years
what would the top ten be

1' kerry
2 Dublin
3 cork
4.meath
5 offaly
6 tyrone
7 galway
8 Down
9 Armagh
10 Derry
11 Donegal

heres the hurling

1 kilkenny
2 cork
3 Tipp
4 offaly
5 Galway
6 clare
7 wexford
8 Limerick

But why would you randomly do it over 40 years????

thewildcat

but sure do it over 80 years and it would be much the same
making a list with counties that never won anything ahead of teams that did
doen't make sense:(

Mountainlad

thewildcat wrote: »

but sure do it over 80 years and it would be much the same
making a list with counties that never won anything ahead of teams that did
doen't make sense:(

Yes it does.

Rankings based on last season.

Because it's the best indicator we have at the moment of where teams are at.

How would it make sense to say, rank Cork second in the hurling because in the 60's they had players like Cummins and the three McCarthys, when this year they were abysmal?

D'Agger

It's not about trophies the list is supposed to be based on form over the last 12 months

That's why the threads called Martin Brehenys 2011 Football Ratings and not Best team of the last 40 years

blackbelt

Would have to agree Re Galway.

They are middle of the pile despite being in Division 2 which is a pretty competitive division filled with contending teams.Their championship form since 2008 has gotten worse and worse every year.Wexford and Meath have disposed of them while the likes of Sligo have gotten the best of them.These teams are either on par or supposed to be ranked lower than Galway.

Think Kildare are ranked just about right though you could argue that Mayo should be placed above them since they won a provincial title,stayed in Division 1 and beat last years champions Cork.You would also get good odds on Mayo beating Kildare.

keane2097

The fact that you would get good odds on Mayo to beat Kildare suggests that the ranking is correct.

Galway are 17th in my ranking FWIW, so agree in general with where they're situated in Breheny's table, although I disagree with him on a fair few others.

Armaghmagic

cournioni wrote: »

Armaghmagic wrote: »

Kildare are a better team than Donegal too!

Eh?! How? Didn't Donegal beat Kildare in the championship earlier this year? :rolleyes:

Yes indeed valid point, but pound for pound Kildare have the better footballers and if the rules were applied, Kildare would (in my opinion, with their wrongly disallowed goal) have won the match comfortably!

washman3

Fireball07 wrote: »

How can Limerick be 20th???

It makes no sense...

makes absolutely no sense at all. but this crap is going on for years. the players should use it as an inspiration when they take to the pitch. just look at the attitude of the Sunday Game panel to teams like Limerick, sickening, with the notable exception of Tony Davis. the love affairs with certain teams and players who have achieved actually less than Limerick is laughable.
I attended the Limerick/Wexford game this year and it was,without doubt the football game of the year. yet it received just 90 seconds airtime on the Sunday Game. the main focus being on the "crybaby" Wexford keeper regarding Limerick's controversial winner. No coverage was given to the fact that Wexford's earlier goal was a blatent free out.
In 2011 Limerick played most games minus the services of 6-7 key players,recovered well after a heavy defeat to Kerry to make the 1/4 finals in Croker, where lady luck was cruel to them,pitching them against an in-form Kerry again.
If Limerick had been drawn against the other 2 teams present that day only a kick of a ball would have settled it either way.
As for this rubbish that Munster is the weakest province,this is usually spouted by people that have little or no concept of what it would be like to try beating Kerry or Cork (or both)every year.

ciarriaithuaidh

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Martin Breheny is a poor journalist without a whit of imagination in his coverage of GAA. His opinion is as worthwhile as any poster to this forum or any other and is nothing to get worked up about one way or another

Nail on the head right there my friend. This is the man who was one of the all star selectors who picked Peter Canavan at centre forward ahead of Brian McGuigan in 2005...thats the level of "knowledge" we're talking about here.

washman3

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Nail on the head right there my friend. This is the man who was one of the all star selectors who picked Peter Canavan at centre forward ahead of Brian McGuigan in 2005...thats the level of "knowledge" we're talking about here.

also on the panel that excluded John Galvin last year, favouring Aidan Walshe of Cork and a sympathy award for Paddy Keenan.
says it all about this "expert"

Hulk Hands

For all those bitching about Galway ranking, you do realise they won they U-21 All Ireland last year, and were one of the most exciting winners in years at that?

Because of this, and their continued success at minor, they are in a better position than most for the coming year with elite young talent coming through. Hence them being ranked higher than some who have performed better in championship. 15 is even low imo. If Galway could escape their ridiculous bad luck with injuries then you'd take their squad before a lot of others

Syferus

Hulk Hands wrote: »

For all those bitching about Galway ranking, you do realise they won they U-21 All Ireland last year, and were one of the most exciting winners in years at that?

Because of this, and their continued success at minor, they are in a better position than most for the coming year with elite young talent coming through. Hence them being ranked higher than some who have performed better in championship. 15 is even low imo. If Galway could escape their ridiculous bad luck with injuries then you'd take their squad before a lot of others

Galway have always had, in the last two decades at least, great underage teams in both codes but it's hardly if ever translated to senior level. It's hard to label it 'elite' talent when the results have been so mediocre in the past; the rating, a system with plenty of flaws, is very right in ranking Galway as a middle of the road team. It's not really fair to say Galway's senior woes is based on injuries - they had a plenty fit team in 2008 and they still couldn't pull out a win when it mattered against Kerry, despite great effort. Galway have lacked a cutting edge for years now, and this is coming for someone who supports them in almost every game they play where they don't face Roscommon.

Indeed they probably should be ranked below alot of the teams they're ranked higher than on that list.

D'Agger

Hulk Hands wrote: »

For all those bitching about Galway ranking, you do realise they won they U-21 All Ireland last year, and were one of the most exciting winners in years at that?

A number of years ago Limericks u21 hurlers won 3 AI titles in a row - that hasn't really translated into senior success so I can see why this has been overlooked somewhat

keane2097

Galway have an awful lot of talented players in their ranks, they've just been very poorl organised these last number of years. I actually suspect this year will see a decent upswing for them.

Hulk Hands

Syferus wrote: »

Galway have always had, in the last two decades at least, great underage teams in both codes but it's hardly if ever translated to senior level. It's hard to label it 'elite' talent when the results have been so mediocre in the past; the rating, a system with plenty of flaws, is very right in ranking Galway as a middle of the road team. It's not really fair to say Galway's senior woes is based on injuries - they had a plenty fit team in 2008 and they still couldn't pull out a win when it mattered against Kerry, despite great effort. Galway have lacked a cutting edge for years now, and this is coming for someone who supports them in almost every game they play where they don't face Roscommon.

Indeed they probably should be ranked below alot of the teams they're ranked higher than on that list.

The only reason im calling it elite is because it is the best in the country at the moment, i.e. somebody has to be the elite or best.

Your mixing them up with the hurlers. In the past 20 years the footballers have only had 3 good periods at underage. The 92-96 class ended up winning 2 senior all Irelands. The 01-05 class hasn't progressed as expected. We'll wait to see how this current bunch gets on.

And yeah they should be ranked as a middle of the road team, which is why I can't understand people getting angry at them being ranked 15 out of 33. It wasn't as if Div 4 teams beat them in championship last year. It was away to Mayo and Meath, both rightfully ranked ahead.

And no they had a good few injuries even in 08. Nicky Joyce, Armstrong and Coleman were all injured and Bergin was only fit enough for a cameo in that game you mention. 4 important players at the time. Either way I can't see how a loss to the All Irelands champions at the time is relevant to the discussion about Galway's current mid table ranking.

D'Agger

Have they appointed their u21 manager as the senior manager for next season?

If they have it'll be a good call - he'll help blood in some of the younger players.

Again referring to the Limerick hurling example I gave - they had alot of good hurlers coming through - appointed Gerald Keane as their manager who brought them success with the u21s, however there was problems in the camp with drinking etc. if I remember correctly and Keane walked as a result.

Hopefully it won't be the same for Galway

Diabhal Beag

There's no way you can be unhappy with Galway's ranking. First off these lists are normally only factoring performances at senior level and Galway haven't done ****e since losing to Kerry in 08. It's not as if Cavan got a massive boost in their rating for their great year at underage.

Hulk Hands

You're getting mixed up diabial. Nobody is arguing that they are not ranked high enough. Many people have said on the thread that they should be ranked lower down (worse). I think 15 is about right.

Syferus

Hulk Hands wrote: »

You're getting mixed up diabial. Nobody is arguing that they are not ranked high enough. Many people have said on the thread that they should be ranked lower down (worse). I think 15 is about right.

Galway haven't managed to win a single championship match in the island of Ireland since beating Sligo in June 2009 in a Connacht semi-final; in the same peroid, Roscommon have won a Conancht title and got to another and have made it to Croke Park on the August bank holiday weekend the last two years, yet we're ranked one place below Galway. Limerick won out on the qualifiers and made a All-Ireland quarter-final, yet they are a whole five places below Galway. Sligo beat Galway in 2010 and are ranked six places below them. Louth won (yeah, I went there) a Leinster final in 2010, yet they're three places below Galway. Even Wicklow and Leitrim have done more damage in the championship recently than Galway have.

Galway are, by any measure, ranked too highly on that poll - they get a softer rule ran over them simply because we almost always imagine them to be a capable team, but simply put they haven't shown themselves to be capable of winning games that matter for quite some time.

TheLynx

Here are my top 10 for 2011

1 Dublin
2 Donegal
3 Kerry
4 Cork
5 Tyrone
6 Galway
7 Mayo
8 Down
9 Tipperary
10 Kildare

teednab-el

TheLynx wrote: »

Here are my top 10 for 2011

1 Dublin
2 Donegal
3 Kerry
4 Cork
5 Tyrone
6 Galway
7 Mayo
8 Down
9 Tipperary
10 Kildare

Do you seriously think that Kerry and Cork would loose to Donegal with full strength panels? You must be joking. How the hell have you Tyrone up there at 7th?

bruschi

teednab-el wrote: »

Do you seriously think that Kerry and Cork would loose to Donegal with full strength panels? You must be joking. How the hell have you Tyrone up there at 7th?

dont rise to it, have a look at the hurling rankings thread.

keane2097

teednab-el wrote: »

Do you seriously think that Kerry and Cork would loose to Donegal with full strength panels? You must be joking. How the hell have you Tyrone up there at 7th?

He is joking, take a quick look through his post history and you'll see he's a troll, and almost certainly a re-reg to boot.

A question for the people who are complaining about Galway being ranked too high, who would they have above them and on what basis?

It strikes me that neither Roscommon nor Limerick have beaten any teams of note in the last couple of years - with the exception of a dubious Limerick win over Wexford - and are puffing their chests over wins against the dregs of the Connacht championship along with the likes of Offaly and Waterford.

I don't see the fuss tbh.

Syferus

keane2097 wrote: »

He is joking, take a quick look through his post history and you'll see he's a troll, and almost certainly a re-reg to boot.

A question for the people who are complaining about Galway being ranked too high, who would they have above them and on what basis?

It strikes me that neither Roscommon nor Limerick have beaten any teams of note in the last couple of years - with the exception of a dubious Limerick win over Wexford - and are puffing their chests over wins against the dregs of the Connacht championship along with the likes of Offaly and Waterford.

I don't see the fuss tbh.

TheLynx isn't the only one verging into trolling territory.

D'Agger

Syferus wrote: »

TheLynx isn't the only one verging into trolling territory.

Yeah Syferus you'd wanna relax a bit alright :pac:

TheLynx

teednab-el wrote: »

Do you seriously think that Kerry and Cork would loose to Donegal with full strength panels? You must be joking. How the hell have you Tyrone up there at 7th?

Yes,I believe Kerry and Cork would lose to Donegal

I do not rank Tyrone as 7th, I rank them as 5th for their productive championship campaign

I base my rankings on the senior championship, u21 and minor, I do not consider the league of importance

teednab-el

TheLynx wrote: »

Yes,I believe Kerry and Cork would lose to Donegal

OK whatever.:rolleyes:

ebbsy

London, Wicklow and Carlow should be a smidgen higher.

Sligo should be lower ?

Hulk Hands

Syferus wrote: »

Galway haven't managed to win a single championship match in the island of Ireland since beating Sligo in June 2009 in a Connacht semi-final; in the same peroid, Roscommon have won a Conancht title and got to another and have made it to Croke Park on the August bank holiday weekend the last two years, yet we're ranked one place below Galway. Limerick won out on the qualifiers and made a All-Ireland quarter-final, yet they are a whole five places below Galway. Sligo beat Galway in 2010 and are ranked six places below them. Louth won (yeah, I went there) a Leinster final in 2010, yet they're three places below Galway. Even Wicklow and Leitrim have done more damage in the championship recently than Galway have.

Galway are, by any measure, ranked too highly on that poll - they get a softer rule ran over them simply because we almost always imagine them to be a capable team, but simply put they haven't shown themselves to be capable of winning games that matter for quite some time.

I can see your point. I suppose it's how you interpret the rankings. If you take it as a ranking of recent championship performances, then yeah they're ranked too highly. If you take it as how good a position they are in for the coming year, then with the recent underage success, players to come back from injury, and general size and prestige of the county, they would nearly be top 10. I suppose these lists are always down to interpretation

Syferus

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I can see your point. I suppose it's how you interpret the rankings. If you take it as a ranking of recent championship performances, then yeah they're ranked too highly. If you take it as how good a position they are in for the coming year, then with the recent underage success, players to come back from injury, and general size and prestige of the county, they would nearly be top 10. I suppose these lists are always down to interpretation

Don't get me wrong, though, I don't think Galway football can sink much further and the general talent level in the county over the years suggest a better future.

The Roscommon-Galway Connacht quarter-final lext season will easily be the most important meeting between the two sides since the 2001 All-Ireland quarter-final; Galway will be desperate to stop their slide in the championship while Roscommon will have both the motivation of ten years of waiting and the confidence that they no longer feel inferior to Mayo and Galway to aid them. I cannot wait.

cournioni

Armaghmagic wrote: »

Yes indeed valid point, but pound for pound Kildare have the better footballers and if the rules were applied, Kildare would (in my opinion, with their wrongly disallowed goal) have won the match comfortably!

Nonsense. Donegal had the bottle to go on and win it with the last kick of the game. There are wrong decisions given against every team in every game. You cannot use that as an excuse to say that they were better than Donegal. The match was even going into the dying seconds, and Donegal won it because of their bottle. Kildare are psychologically weaker than Donegal in my opinion.

keane2097

Think it's pretty fair to say Kildare probably would have won the game if the goal had stood.

Writing the decision off because other bad decisions happen is pretty lol as well, obv some mistakes are bigger/more important than others.

cournioni

keane2097 wrote: »

Think it's pretty fair to say Kildare probably would have won the game if the goal had stood.

Writing the decision off because other bad decisions happen is pretty lol as well, obv some mistakes are bigger/more important than others.

Probably indeed. I wasn't aware that games were predictable as that. Sure, they would have the advantage, but Donegal probably could have gone up the pitch to score a goal straight after that, knowing that they would have had to score a goal after conceeding.

My point is, the goal wasn't given, the game was level in the last minute and Kildare failed to win the game because Donegal were the hungrier team. If Kildare were the better team, they would have won the game when it was level in the dying minutes. Simple as that.

keane2097

cournioni wrote: »

Probably indeed. I wasn't aware that games were predictable as that. Sure, they would have the advantage, but Donegal probably could have gone up the pitch to score a goal straight after that, knowing that they would have had to score a goal after conceeding.

My point is, the goal wasn't given, the game was level in the last minute and Kildare failed to win the game because Donegal were the hungrier team. If Kildare were the better team, they would have won the game when it was level in the dying minutes. Simple as that.

Jesus, there's too much nonsense here to even bother with. Hup Donegal I suppose.