General Star Trek thread

I really hate seeing "All Trek is good Trek".

It's an obvious call that the show in question is Trek in name only. Seeing it a lot in relation to this

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123099779#Comment_123099779

I’d echo that. Yea, the reviewer’s contention that Section 31 “didn’t need to be Picasso” kind of ignores that for years we never expected an artistic masterwork from Trek. We’ve lived through Code of Honor and Sub Rosa FFS, we really don’t have very high standards. We just want a half decent space adventure with a little bit of heart to it, brought by a group of Trek characters that we can get to like.

That is why I like Lower Decks and SNW. That is also why I do not like Discovery, and alas also why I’m likely not going to watch Section 31.

None of it needs to be Picasso, but without characters that we can get behind it could be the work of Master Leonardo, and it would still be unwatchable slokk.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123099779#Comment_123099779

I can think of any number of episodes from pretty much all the series that demonstrate that All Trek is certainly not good Trek. The adventures of Flotter from Voyager being one that sticks out for me. Frankly I would rather do my tax return that watch that again.

I'll echo Rawr, and say when has Trek ever been Picasso? I don't sit down to watch The Wrath of Khan and expect Laurence of Arabia. All I and most trekkies want is a decent space-based yarn that manages to align to some of the usual Trek-based tropes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104041#Comment_123104041

What I mean with that is that even our Bad Trek was bad in universe, while still being Trek (they swing and miss).

Recent bad Trek does not sit well inside the set universe. It's also bad TV.

I just want a woke Sci-Fi which respects the rich history of what's been before, something which makes me think and does not force its message

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104819#Comment_123104819

Absolutely, I was agreeing with you. "Recent bad Trek does not fit inside the set Universe". Like giving Spock a sister?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104834#Comment_123104834

: )

Doug Jones was just on the D-Con Chamber podcast. Damn that man deserved far better than Discovery

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123105022#Comment_123105022

Doug Jones was one of those spots of hope that kept me watching Discovery up until the end of Season 3. His character was an interesting alien who also felt very Starfleet. In contrast to the trainwreck of Burnham's character, Jones' performance gave a gimps of a half decent Trek show with him as a major part of the story.

Of course; it didn't go that way. Despite him being an idea canditate for captain, the need to elevate Burnham at all costs pretty much ensured that he would always play second fiddle to her. So when she became captain at the end of Season 3, I knew it was time to stop watching. Along with Lorca and Season 1 Tilly, I lemented the death of yet a character who could have salvaged the show and gave up hope on Discovery. They really should have stopped it there instead of limping on for 2 pointless additional seasons.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123116029#Comment_123116029

In fairness they had to make her captain to correct the terrible and obvious mistake of trying to base all the plots of a show around a lieutenant.

They should have just done it sooner before that laughable idea of Saru as captain with an Ensign as first officer.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123116121#Comment_123116121

There's nothing wrong with basing a show around lower ranks. Sisko started out as a commander with an enlisted engineer and two lower grade lieutenants as his Star Fleet crew. Plus Lower Decks was a great success.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123116283#Comment_123116283

Lower Decks is totally different. You don't really question anything they do because it's a comedy. You would be bored to tears with the goings on of the real live action Lower Decks for more than an episode.

And it doesn't matter that Sisco was a commander and his crew junior grades. They were heads of their department and he was leader of the station. He was in the captain position.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123116283#Comment_123116283

I think TNG Season 1 had set the precident of Commanders being CO rank on a Starbase (Commander Quinteros of Starbase 74 in "11000100"). I'm guessing at that stage of Trek, and up until Sisko's promotion the 4-pip rank of Captain was usally reserved for Starship command.

But agreed, nothing wrong with having a main cast of lower rank as Lower Decks has excellently shown us.

To Breezy's point, I suspect that the writers had made it desperatly nessisary to promote Burnham because with the possible exception of Lorca's & Pike's commands, Burnham was acting as if she was a First Officer with a Captain's authority in-story. The chain of command seemed to be little more than a device to show the viewers how she was right, and damn near everyone else in Starfleet is wrong. There's only so long you can do that with a lieutenant with a poorly defined departmental function, who was previously cashiered out of the service for getting her Captain killed and starting a war that killed millions. Gotta promote her eventually.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123104819#Comment_123104819

I just want a woke Sci-Fi which respects the rich history of what's been before, something which makes me think and does not force its message

"Wait, the Yangs are really… just like us! And the Kohms are… communists!"
"I guess it's always bad to put on a Nazi uniform?"
"Lads, lads, you're just being silly, now. People who are black on the right side of their body and white on left side are every bit as good as people who are white on the right side and black on the left side - racism is DUMB, ok?"

But yes, agreed, you can convey a message with more subtlety than Disco did!

flazio

A joke I know this thread will appreciate. Since Storm Éowyn our broadband connection has been down and the eir modem has only shown 2 lights. Well 10 days later we're reconnected, I point at the modem and declare. "There are 5 lights."

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123138127#Comment_123138127

Clearly you have been turned by the Cardassians.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123138256#Comment_123138256

Flazio will now enjoy a life of comfort and academic pursuits on Eir’ok Nor.

flazio

Yeah you guys try to keep an internet connection through 1 bar of 5g on your phone's hotspot for 10 days. You'll declare as many lights as you can.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123138981#Comment_123138981

Lol

AMKC

Am hearing rumours that Kurtzman is gone. Not seen anything official yet but we can but Hope.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123139874#Comment_123139874

From where ?

Reddit, YouTube, media, your granny ?

Give a little bit of context at least FFS.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123139882#Comment_123139882

You-Tube.

Lol at your Granny 🤣🤣. Its a long time since I had a Granny 😞 as they are both sadly dead.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123139874#Comment_123139874

I have seen a couple of videos claiming this one. There's one lad called "Tackyon Pulse" that the YouTube algorithim pushed over to me making that claim.

He's also doing the "Kathleen Kennedy is done at LucasFilm"-shuffle that also gets carted out once or twice a year.

He sound's confident enough, is claiming "sources" and is considerably less craven than the Doomcocks and Midnights Edges of the world…but I'm more than a little dubious of YouTube rumor-millers as a rule.

Kurtzman has been "in trouble" with Paramount for going on nearly 4 years now, with Kennedy being "essentially fired" for nearly as long. But in both cases they have gone nowhere.

The current Star Trek rumor on that channel is related to the SkyDance purchase of Paramount which might or might-not happen. The rumor suggests that one requirement of SkyDance is to not renew / cancel the Secret Hideout deal to produce Star Trek, and then put Star Trek on a break for a couple of years while they try to plan something new. An add-on to the rumor suggests that SkyDance are not fans of Kurtzman and found him difficult to work with when they were working on the the JJ-Movies with him. Another addon to the rumor suggests that the reception of Section 31 pretty much guarenteed him getting kicked.

But all of the above comes from a YouTuber farming for views, so I'll believe none of it unless & until it actually happens.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123139955#Comment_123139955

YouTube have been saying this since the day he got hired.

YouTube is a waste of time for news.

AMKC

Well it's different anyway lol,

https://youtu.be/dSlGxtOTbbI?si=0NrEawNMNiXJbNkD

fritzelly

that made me laugh more than it probably should have

Acosta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123139874#Comment_123139874

..........

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123151232#Comment_123151232

Lol. Sorry.

TheIrishGrover

HAS Strange New Worlds been renewed for Season 4? I thought I saw that it had. As Star Trek Academy is probably pretty far into production, it may be more financially better to complete than cancel (Although shows do seem to get cancelled at real short notice).

I wonder if they would cancel SNW after upcoming season and simply scrap the academy show. I mean, does ANYONE want an academy show?

I know Paramount wanted to ALWAYS have a Trek series on the go but really, it's the likes of its modern westerns that have attracted the viewers. Apart from their high-profile and no doubt VERY expensive casts, I assume they would be easier/cheaper to make than Trek. With a much wider audience demographic and easier to sell to other stations.

Speaking as someone who really enjoys SNW and Lower Decks……. Would it be the worst thing in the world to drop Trek for 3, maybe even 4 years and come back with something totally new? No links to Discovery either cannon-wise or behind the scenes. Stylistically different and different in tone. Different setting/era altogether. The magic they used in the later seasons on Discovery was just too convenient and lazy. Teleporting 5 feet, programmable matter. Phasers appearing on-demand. (Right, enough of that. Too many threads about Discovery sucking. We all know).

So, something with NO mention/references to:

Kirk, Spock, Picard/TNG, Burnham, Pike, Section 31, Noonian Soong/Noonian Sing, Brent Spiner, Skywalkers (Sorry, wrong reference).

Again, maybe a cop show on Mars. Maybe an Alien Nation type show: 5-20 years after First Contact. Earth still in a jocker. Alien species arriving to assist and how that may lead to resentment/tensions. Might be a little on the nose right at this moment but could be interesting. Maybe a Mako show. Maybe a sitcom following the O'Briens ("Myyyyyy-eeeelllllssssss. Oh you!")… Maybe not.

TLDR: As much as I like trek and enjoy Strange New Worlds, there is something to be said for a break to reset.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123151089#Comment_123151089

In space, no-one can hear you Theme (tune)

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123154136#Comment_123154136

The worry i have about a break, is that when they resume the franchise, after said hiatus, it takes off in a completely different direction… again

For my part, of the post Star Trek Enterprise franchise

-Strange New Worlds is fantastic, and is the clear winner

-Star Trek Picard, despite poor story telling in season one and two. is a decent runner up, and i have rewatched segments of it

-Star Trek Discovery: the pits - it went from bad to worse, and never improved - iv said all i can say about Disco in other threads - but its the worst of the franchise IMHO

-Section 31 - i havent watched it, but by reading what you folks have said, i think its a pass for me, for a long time. It sounds worse than Disco, which would be saying something AWEFUL

-Abrams Trek - for me this just wasnt star trek, so i just give it a pass, without getting annoyed about it. Not to the same degree as with Disco - i didnt care for any of the movies. and i found Into Darkness particularly repulsive, but again - NOT real Star Trek so, i dont care - kinda hope its dead, although every now and again, its dug up as a possible 4th film.

The reason i list the above, is that i would worry. Were they to take a long break after Strange New Worlds, then someone new comes along with 'new ideas' for the franchise - and we end up getting something far worse than Discovery.

There seems to be a general trend in hollywood, of giving pseudo-content creaters (in reality, activists), large amounts of cash, and inviting them to 'express themselves'. And when they create 'Emelia Perez' type lunacy, they end up being praised by the Hollywood media, and loathed by the actual audience. I feel this is what happened with Discovery. If you look at the Rotton Tomato ratings for Discovery, its consistant with high ratings from 'critics' and 'reviewers' - and extremely low ratings from the actual fans. This then tends to be explained away with charges of 'review bombing' which are not credible.

I dont believe a hiatus would be productive for Star Trek. What i hope for, is that they see the merit in Strange New Worlds, a show that FANS WANTED!!! And they proceed with Star Trek Legacy, (7of9 Cpt of Enterprise) or give us something even better like a lost generation (between Kirk and Picard) enterprise B or C show. These are the shows fans want, and would buy into with subscriptions.

I wont be subscribing to watch the Disco Starfleet Academy spin off - its a show which i am happy to pass on. And unless it gets rave reviews by the only critics i care about - star trek fandom - i wont bother watching it at all. I find this sad, albeit a sane response to the franchise as it stands.