Laws on white collar crime

jimmurt

We all know nothing will come of Sean Fitzpatrick's arrest today due to Ireland's lack of laws on white collar crime.

I was just wondering if any measures have been put in place to implement these laws? Have we learned our lesson or are the likes or Mr. Fitzpatrick going to get away with this in the future.

Dirk Gently

white collar crime is just an abstract theory in this country. It is not applied practically. There are weaknesses in definitions, problems obtaining warrants, every step of an investigation is open to appeal, under staffing and under funding in corporate enforcement, all of which makes investigating and prosecution of white collar crime neigh on impossible. In theory we have white collar laws, in practice the law can rarely be applied successfully. The current government are making a stab at strengthening up the area but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Nodin

jimmurt wrote: »

We all know nothing will come of Sean Fitzpatrick's arrest today due to Ireland's lack of laws on white collar crime.

I was just wondering if any measures have been put in place to implement these laws? Have we learned our lesson or are the likes or Mr. Fitzpatrick going to get away with this in the future.

.....should the closer EU union come about, there may be Europe wide laws enacted which would affect future offenders. Certainly tighter financial regulation is on the way. Given the failure (and on occassion refusal) of the Irish state to pass 'awkward' legislation since its foundation, its probably down that route that change will come.

charlemont

Ireland is such a small country that you can almost bet Fitz and his cronies mix in the same social circles as the most important politicians, solicitors and top ranking Gardaí so this could go the way of the tribunals*.

*The tribunals are really just show trials. Just to make us joe soaps think justice is being applied.

ResearchWill

There is very good law in this area Criminal Law (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001.

Now we have as a society ask why is a person from a middle class background who steals a million not brought to justice wiggles drug addict who takes clothes from a store is.

We don't need more law , we need more use of the laws we have.

jimmurt

I suppose one of the main problems is that us ordinary Joe Soaps give out to high hell about the likes of Seanie Fitz but do nothing to ensure his likes do not keep getting away with this.

Is there anything we can do as individuals to push this matter?

Chuck Stone

If they did away with limited liability people wouldn't be so reckless. If every last cent they have and piece of property they own was on the line they people would be very careful about their business.

Limited liability is a concept where by a person's financial liability is limited to a fixed sum, most commonly the value of a person's investment in a company or partnership with limited liability. If a company with limited liability is sued, then the plaintiffs are suing the company, not its owners or investors. A shareholder in a limited company is not personally liable for any of the debts of the company, other than for the value of their investment in that company. This usually takes the form of that person's dividends in the company being zero, since the company has no profits to allocate. The same is true for the members of a limited liability partnership and the limited partners in a limited partnership.

Source

ResearchWill

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If they did away with limited liability people wouldn't be so reckless. If every last cent they have and piece of property they own was on the line they people would be very careful about their business.

The reason for limited liability was to allow people to invest in business with only the risk of their shareholding. If they did away with it people would pull their money out of companies very quickly. In relation to directors of companies there is plenty of legislation dealing with fraudulent and reckless trading which can remove liability.

Lockstep

Yeah, our white collar crime laws are actually quite decent (for example, directors engaging in white collar crime can be be made personally responsible for the comapny's debts)

The problem is with the enforcement, not the law itself.

Mr.Micro

jimmurt wrote: »

We all know nothing will come of Sean Fitzpatrick's arrest today due to Ireland's lack of laws on white collar crime.

I was just wondering if any measures have been put in place to implement these laws? Have we learned our lesson or are the likes or Mr. Fitzpatrick going to get away with this in the future.

I am sure he was well looked after at the Garda station. Its all just show to pretend that something is being done. I will be very surprised if they can make anything stick to the little ..... . The last time I heard some months ago, that none of the golden circle were being co-operative. All connected and friends and nothing will happen.

FreudianSlippers

We have legislation now custom-made for this area, namely the Criminal Justice Act 2011

ResearchWill

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

We have legislation now custom-made for this area, namely the Criminal Justice Act 2011

I don't think all of that act has been commenced yet, sections 5,7 and 9-14 have no commencement order I believe.

Son Of A Vidic

charlemont wrote: »

The tribunals are really just show trials. Just to make us joe soaps think justice is being applied.

I wouldn't even granted them the status of a show trial. More like a toothless, protracted series of fund raising events for the legal profession.

FreudianSlippers

ResearchWill wrote: »

I don't think all of that act has been commenced yet, sections 5,7 and 9-14 have no commencement order I believe.

Correct, I just meant that this is new legislation tailor made for white collar crime.

ResearchWill

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Correct, I just meant that this is new legislation tailor made for white collar crime.

True but will it be used is the real issue.

limklad

ResearchWill wrote: »

True but will it be used is the real issue.

That the problem with alot of Legislation, The real world application in Courts is the main issue. Poorly though out and vague Legislation fails in Courts.