Having problems getting rent paid

cathleencp

My current tenant is in place for almost 2 years and I have on-going problems with rent payment – it is intermittent and always behind. I have to chase for most weekly payments. My tenant is well-meaning. She is in receipt of rent allowance. I have been very patient and have helped her out with buying oil and fuel for her when she couldn’t afford heating (which caused pipes to burst and involved us in a lot of expense)

I am tried of tracking, chasing, texting etc.

What options are open to me? What course of action should I take?

Ray Palmer

If they are getting RA they are getting paid for the rent. They are simply spending it. Time to get a new tenant. They have proved to be un trustworthy/unable to budget. I would expect them to stop paying the rent once they are told you want them out.

You can't change somebody's own behaviour

BostonB

Get them to agree for the rent allowance to go to you directly.

If they don't agree to this then I'd give them official notice. As they must be using it for other things.

ShaShaBear

Agreed mostly as above - I get rent allowance and I only have to put €24 per week of my own money to what they give me per week for the rent. Your tenant is clearly spending it or being generally careless. However, it isn't always possible to get it paid directly to a LL anymore, my only option was to pick it up in the PO weekly - absolute no-no to Direct Debit, cheque, or LL account.
But yeah, if you keep letting them away with it, it'll keep happening. Also, your tenant would have been entitled to Fuel Allowance (extra €20 a week) from September to April every year they've lived there with rent allowance, so there really isn't an excuse on the heating front either.
Give them their notice and prepare to keep the deposit, they probably won't give you another cent.

BostonB

ShaShaBear wrote: »

A....However, it isn't always possible to get it paid directly to a LL anymore....

News to me. Did they stop it for all those people who do it that way?

ShaShaBear

BostonB wrote: »

News to me. Did they stop it for all those people who do it that way?

No idea mate, but I was not allowed any option other than the PO, and I know a few in Dundalk who've been told the same on new applications. Guess it's like dole into the bank, people were abusing it. I fought tooth and nail for another option because I have to collect mine on a Thursday/Friday or it's gone, and I'm in college 9-5 both those days. She told me I'd just have to miss class.

KimmyKims

I recieve rent allowance and its sent to me in cheque which i receive on the last thursday every month. When i applied for it i was told that it could be sent direct to landlord but i have since found out that its all changed now. My guess is that if they are recieving it then cashing it , then they are spending it. as another poster pointed out, we do receive fuel allowance of 20 euro a week so if the gas bill is every 2 months, that means 160 euro would have been saved up by tenant for gas. What my landlord did was install a gas meter, therefore i topped up my card each week with the fuel allowance (and any extra, it is very cold) and used it that way. its great cos there is no bills and i also have the same for ESB. It may be something to look into so your not left covering bills.

KimmyKims

also, was meant to add... if its an ongoing problem, you can contact the CWO that looks after the area in the social welfare office your tenant is connected to. Explain to them the situation and they may be able to send the rent on to you instead of tenant. Worth a try

Ray Palmer

KimmyKims wrote: »

also, was meant to add... if its an ongoing problem, you can contact the CWO that looks after the area in the social welfare office your tenant is connected to. Explain to them the situation and they may be able to send the rent on to you instead of tenant. Worth a try

The problem is they also just plain stop paying on occasion. So tenant doesn't get money nor LL and the the tenant stays. Difficult to get a tenant out legally even when they simply don't pay the rent.

BostonB

KimmyKims wrote: »

also, was meant to add... if its an ongoing problem, you can contact the CWO that looks after the area in the social welfare office your tenant is connected to. Explain to them the situation and they may be able to send the rent on to you instead of tenant. Worth a try

They can't do that legally. They can't even talk to a LL about a tenant. It would be passing information to a third party. Never mind money.

Graces7

My RA is paid direct into my bank account; new claim and I asked for it this way. Likewise my rent is paid in fulll to the landlord from my bank account. Makes life easier. Dreadful that the CWO told you to miss class. Can you speak/email her Supervisor?

Graces7

BostonB wrote: »

They can't do that legally. They can't even talk to a LL about a tenant. It would be passing information to a third party. Never mind money.

If someone on RA is not paying their rent then the CWO should be told. They have protocol for this situation.

Graces7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The problem is they also just plain stop paying on occasion. So tenant doesn't get money nor LL and the the tenant stays. Difficult to get a tenant out legally even when they simply don't pay the rent.

Actually it isn't diffcult. OP needs to call Threshold for advice on this. They are the experts.

If you look at the dispute settlement pages on PTRB, you will see that non payment is one major reason for legal eviction. Always easier to let a third party help.

BostonB

Graces7 wrote: »

If someone on RA is not paying their rent then the CWO should be told. They have protocol for this situation.

Thats the LL telling the CWO. Not the other around. From a data protection POV. So to speak.

A LL I know couldn't even find out if there was delay in the RA payments. They refused to tell him. Even though the LL was happy to wait for the payments if they were delayed. As the HSE wouldn't tell them, they were forced to give notice to the tenant. As a result the LL now won't take RA unless the Tenant gives a deposit and 1 months rent up front, and tenant agrees to have it paid directly to the LL.

The delay and it being paid in 1 month arrears, suits neither tenant or LL.

BostonB

Graces7 wrote: »

Actually it isn't diffcult. OP needs to call Threshold for advice on this. They are the experts.

If you look at the dispute settlement pages on PTRB, you will see that non payment is one major reason for legal eviction. Always easier to let a third party help.

Threshold seem very biased IMO, and their enthusiasm for tenants rights some times gets in the way of dispute resolution.

I would disagree it not difficult and add its also potentially ruinous to the LL.

Jo King

BostonB wrote: »

Threshold told one tenant I knew they could stay without paying rent for a long time as it would take the LL a year or more to get it to court. Threshold seem very biased IMO, and their enthusiasm for tenants rights some times gets in the way of dispute resolution.

I would disagree it not difficult and add its also potentially ruinous to the LL.

That is criminal if it happened. If I was the landlord I would be on the warpath.

Ray Palmer

Graces7 wrote: »

Actually it isn't diffcult. OP needs to call Threshold for advice on this. They are the experts.

If you look at the dispute settlement pages on PTRB, you will see that non payment is one major reason for legal eviction. Always easier to let a third party help.

As stated it can easily take over a year to evict a tenant legally. Having had experience with the process I can tell you now that it is not easy. It is not easier to let a 3rd party help as it takes so long and you will never get any money paid back if the ruling is even in your favour.

With an RA tenant it is even less likely you will get the money as they have no money to pay you with let alone back rent.

Have you ever tried this? Threshold are a orgainsation for tenants no matter what they say. Just give them a ring and ask them something from a LL view point.

BostonB

Jo King wrote: »

That is criminal if it happened. If I was the landlord I would be on the warpath.

Dunno about criminal as it depends how it was phrased. Its also hearsay as the tenant repeated it to the agent, so you can't be sure of exactly what was said. Its also true in many cases as the legal system is so slow. But ultimately its really not helpful, and they would have been better convincing the tenant to move somewhere more affordable, a better solution for all concerned. Conflict between LL and tenants is in no ones best interest.

Graces7

BostonB wrote: »

Thats the LL telling the CWO. Not the other around. From a data protection POV. So to speak.

A LL I know couldn't even find out if there was delay in the RA payments. They refused to tell him. Even though the LL was happy to wait for the payments if they were delayed. As the HSE wouldn't tell them, they were forced to give notice to the tenant. As a result the LL now won't take RA unless the Tenant gives a deposit and 1 months rent up front, and tenant agrees to have it paid directly to the LL.

The delay and it being paid in 1 month arrears, suits neither tenant or LL.

I didn't say ask questions. Simply inform the CWO in writing that the rent is not being paid etc; LL will have all the details he gave to the CWO. Of course they will not answer questions! But knowing that the RA is not being used rightly puts an obligation on them.

Graces7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

As stated it can easily take over a year to evict a tenant legally. Having had experience with the process I can tell you now that it is not easy. It is not easier to let a 3rd party help as it takes so long and you will never get any money paid back if the ruling is even in your favour.

With an RA tenant it is even less likely you will get the money as they have no money to pay you with let alone back rent.

Have you ever tried this? Threshold are a orgainsation for tenants no matter what they say. Just give them a ring and ask them something from a LL view point.

Small point; do you read the PTRB pages I mentioned? They make interesting reading. And I am among many who do find it easier to let official bodies as third parties take the strain, so please don't discount that.

These things do take time; but many of us also are very thankful for the Tenancy Act that redresses some of the previous heavily weighted situation for landlords.

One major problem is that many landlords have no idea what that act says. As someone in another thread opines, there should be some kind of Landlord Licence.

We have had six landlords in five years and not one of them knew the law or was ready to keep to it. We have trained and taught our present LL and all is well as the agent is supportive. So all is well now; NB yes the agent acted as the third party.

BostonB

Equally there's tenants who don't their obligations either. Perhaps there should be a tenant/LL driving licence/test

Ray Palmer

Graces7 wrote: »

Small point; do you read the PTRB pages I mentioned? They make interesting reading. And I am among many who do find it easier to let official bodies as third parties take the strain, so please don't discount that.

These things do take time; but many of us also are very thankful for the Tenancy Act that redresses some of the previous heavily weighted situation for landlords.

One major problem is that many landlords have no idea what that act says. As someone in another thread opines, there should be some kind of Landlord Licence.

We have had six landlords in five years and not one of them knew the law or was ready to keep to it. We have trained and taught our present LL and all is well as the agent is supportive. So all is well now; NB yes the agent acted as the third party.

Great for you but as a LL I can tell you that a tenant can simply stop paying rent and that cost is yours. Even if there is a ruling against the tenant they may never pay. You have no experience of it from a LL point of view. If you have a a mortgage that has to be paid monthly and a tenant stops paying you may end up losing the property. That is the reality of it, tenants even ask for payments to move out as they know how long it takes to get them out.

The new system is not actually that different from the old system and the laws are not much different either. The laws have always been heavily in favour of tenants. Yes ther have been ruling against tenants but they take so long.

In ireland the obvious hatred of LL due to the way history is thaught. There are bad LL but there are a lot of bad tenants who get a lot of support.

Graces7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Great for you but as a LL I can tell you that a tenant can simply stop paying rent and that cost is yours. Even if there is a ruling against the tenant they may never pay. You have no experience of it from a LL point of view. If you have a a mortgage that has to be paid monthly and a tenant stops paying you may end up losing the property. That is the reality of it, tenants even ask for payments to move out as they know how long it takes to get them out.

The new system is not actually that different from the old system and the laws are not much different either. The laws have always been heavily in favour of tenants. Yes ther have been ruling against tenants but they take so long.

In ireland the obvious hatred of LL due to the way history is thaught. There are bad LL but there are a lot of bad tenants who get a lot of support.

Young man; I don't hate anyone.. and I am not Irish. In my own experience here in ten years I have had six landlords. All were unbusinesslike in the extreme; some simply wanted someone to pay their mortgage as you have stated. Three wanted the house preserved as it was an old family place, like a shrine. None put the interest and comfort of the tenant first and getting any repairs done was like pulling hens' teeth.

Junk for furniture and worse junk in the kitchen.

A rented property is our home. We pay for that.

We are not here to do the ll a favour.

The laws were never pro tenants until 2004

I sympathise deeply with the OP but they need to inform the CWO. Also the Citiziens Info will give expert advice and assist.

The prejudice against RA tenants is appalling also. In all these years never once have I been late in paying rent. At present I have 3 cents left in my bank account after the rent goes out. Because the rent comes first, always.

The one time that that was not so was before the last move when I had to withhold rent the last three weeks as I had no money for the deposit and knew from experience that I would not get that back speedily. So it was a case of being forced to bend the law to make the move; he was trying to evict illegally against a fixed term lease.

I took a strong line when moving here; the worst thing was the privacy angle. I would come home to find the ll had been in. When challenged .. " I own the house...". Now he has been taught by me and by the agent that he cannot come in when he wants.

As a tenant I know the law so in that sense I have a qualification. More than any landlord so far in my experience does.

OP I hope this gets sorted for you and speedily. But it has gone on for so long now?

ShaShaBear

Graces7, I didn't know there was someone else I could approach, but I have to move in March (which means I will be re-assessed) so I'll get a new CWO. Maybe try to tackle it that way. But I was very shocked myself, since I know a good 12 or 13 people getting it paid to their bank or their LL. I managed to square it with my lecturer who takes me for an extra class to cover me. But obviously the timetable is going to change after Christmas - that might be a real challenge. My CWO also told me to collect on Thursday, and if I don't pick it up by Friday then it is returned. But I went in yesterday and collected my payment - three days before it's due, according to her.

I know they have pretty crappy jobs, but it's beyond me why they give these jobs to people that seem to err on the anti-social side, so far as I have experienced in any case.

BostonB

You could contact local politicians and see why the policy is different for your location.

Ray Palmer

Graces7 wrote: »

Young man; I don't hate anyone.. and I am not Irish. In my own experience here in ten years I have had six landlords. All were unbusinesslike in the extreme; some simply wanted someone to pay their mortgage as you have stated. Three wanted the house preserved as it was an old family place, like a shrine. None put the interest and comfort of the tenant first and getting any repairs done was like pulling hens' teeth.

Junk for furniture and worse junk in the kitchen.

A rented property is our home. We pay for that.

We are not here to do the ll a favour.

The laws were never pro tenants until 2004

I sympathise deeply with the OP but they need to inform the CWO. Also the Citiziens Info will give expert advice and assist.

The prejudice against RA tenants is appalling also. In all these years never once have I been late in paying rent. At present I have 3 cents left in my bank account after the rent goes out. Because the rent comes first, always.

The one time that that was not so was before the last move when I had to withhold rent the last three weeks as I had no money for the deposit and knew from experience that I would not get that back speedily. So it was a case of being forced to bend the law to make the move; he was trying to evict illegally against a fixed term lease.

I took a strong line when moving here; the worst thing was the privacy angle. I would come home to find the ll had been in. When challenged .. " I own the house...". Now he has been taught by me and by the agent that he cannot come in when he wants.

As a tenant I know the law so in that sense I have a qualification. More than any landlord so far in my experience does.

OP I hope this gets sorted for you and speedily. But it has gone on for so long now?

First off I am not a young man and have rented to more people than you have had LLs. I also have been doing this since before 2004 and have direct expereince of dealing with tenants that do not pay their rent.

You should also read what people post as I never said you had hatred for anybody I was pointing out it is a prevelant attitude. Predjudice as you call it is actually reality when it comes to RA tenants. It is extra work and has more problems than private tenants. I know this from expereince you cannot know this as you only have yourself as a reference point. OPs situation is nothing new nor surprising. I do accept RA and have done for 15 years off one tenant.

To remove a tenant legally prior to 2004 actually took longer. It could easily take 2 year to get it to court and often arears were not rewarded. I remeber there was one case where the judge left the tenant in the place as she had no where else to go! The new laws somewhat addressed this but the major change for tenats was the part 4 tenancy change.

A LL is not there to do a tenat any favours either it is a business. Why buy expensive furniture if they break it or steal it. This has happened to me so I don't furnish the place expensively as a rule but will do so for a long term tenant. There is actually no reason to trust a tenant until they have proved themselves trust worthy. I keep the places very basic now from experience. I could have a much nicer place and charge more rent but some areas you won't get the tenats so they stay basic.

As a business the mortgage is the expense nothing wrong with expecting the income to cover the expense. You'll find most buisness don't provide their services for free and they try not to do it at a loss.

RA tenats require more effort due to the forms and what happens when or if the tenant gets cut off. It happens a lot of the time and is usually down to the recipient not filling out the forms on time. You simply have no experience as how the situation is for a LL. I have not done the things other LL have done such as, retaining deposits unjustly, entering without prior knowledge or permission, not repairing things etc...

Kosseegan

BostonB wrote: »

Dunno about criminal as it depends how it was phrased. Its also hearsay as the tenant repeated it to the agent, so you can't be sure of exactly what was said. Its also true in many cases as the legal system is so slow. But ultimately its really not helpful, and they would have been better convincing the tenant to move somewhere more affordable, a better solution for all concerned. Conflict between LL and tenants is in no ones best interest.

So the unlawful killing of someone is not murder because there is not enough evidence for a conviction?

BostonB

You've lost me.

Graces7

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Graces7, I didn't know there was someone else I could approach, but I have to move in March (which means I will be re-assessed) so I'll get a new CWO. Maybe try to tackle it that way. But I was very shocked myself, since I know a good 12 or 13 people getting it paid to their bank or their LL. I managed to square it with my lecturer who takes me for an extra class to cover me. But obviously the timetable is going to change after Christmas - that might be a real challenge. My CWO also told me to collect on Thursday, and if I don't pick it up by Friday then it is returned. But I went in yesterday and collected my payment - three days before it's due, according to her.

I know they have pretty crappy jobs, but it's beyond me why they give these jobs to people that seem to err on the anti-social side, so far as I have experienced in any case.

The CWO is out of order here. Yes, when I had trouble re RA, I looked online and found the email of her supervisor. It was listed under HSE. The CWO was claiming she was not getting my emails and because of distance and disability/illness I said I could not go into the clinic etc. So I emailed her Supervisor... CWO was on the doorstep next morning. If I rememebr right, there may have been something on the form re payment to a bank a/c? Anyways I simply sent the bank details. There has never been any issue re this and this is a national provision so it looks like just this CWO? Winding you up.. by all means check with Citizens; Info; it was they who realised that the CWO had made a basic error re my RA which meant I was without for 7 months.

Good luck!

Graces7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

First off I am not a young man and have rented to more people than you have had LLs. I also have been doing this since before 2004 and have direct expereince of dealing with tenants that do not pay their rent.

You should also read what people post as I never said you had hatred for anybody I was pointing out it is a prevelant attitude. Predjudice as you call it is actually reality when it comes to RA tenants. It is extra work and has more problems than private tenants. I know this from expereince you cannot know this as you only have yourself as a reference point. OPs situation is nothing new nor surprising. I do accept RA and have done for 15 years off one tenant.

To remove a tenant legally prior to 2004 actually took longer. It could easily take 2 year to get it to court and often arears were not rewarded. I remeber there was one case where the judge left the tenant in the place as she had no where else to go! The new laws somewhat addressed this but the major change for tenats was the part 4 tenancy change.

A LL is not there to do a tenat any favours either it is a business. Why buy expensive furniture if they break it or steal it. This has happened to me so I don't furnish the place expensively as a rule but will do so for a long term tenant. There is actually no reason to trust a tenant until they have proved themselves trust worthy. I keep the places very basic now from experience. I could have a much nicer place and charge more rent but some areas you won't get the tenats so they stay basic.

As a business the mortgage is the expense nothing wrong with expecting the income to cover the expense. You'll find most buisness don't provide their services for free and they try not to do it at a loss.

RA tenats require more effort due to the forms and what happens when or if the tenant gets cut off. It happens a lot of the time and is usually down to the recipient not filling out the forms on time. You simply have no experience as how the situation is for a LL. I have not done the things other LL have done such as, retaining deposits unjustly, entering without prior knowledge or permission, not repairing things etc...

Just skimmed this. Too much at this time of day and it is pretty irrelevant to the OP's situation which is what matters here. Maybe think of giving up renting if it affects you this badly...Oh but then that mortgage..

I will not use the words I would like to use; one point though. ONE form is all it takes.. ONE form!

That exaggeration sums up this post

Over and OUT.

Ray Palmer

Graces7 wrote: »

Just skimmed this. Too much at this time of day and it is pretty irrelevant to the OP's situation which is what matters here. Maybe think of giving up renting if it affects you this badly...Oh but then that mortgage..

I will not use the words I would like to use; one point though. ONE form is all it takes.. ONE form!

That exaggeration sums up this post

Over and OUT.

No it doesn't take one form.

I don't have worry about my mortgage on my rentals as I inheritated some of them. I don't need to pay others mortgages people pay mine for me. I don't need the state to pay for me.

Very relevant to the OP as they can learn from the years of experience in renting.

BostonB

Graces7 wrote: »

Just skimmed this. Too much at this time of day and it is pretty irrelevant to the OP's situation which is what matters here. Maybe think of giving up renting if it affects you this badly...Oh but then that mortgage..

I will not use the words I would like to use; one point though. ONE form is all it takes.. ONE form!...

With respect you posted a whole story thats not relevent.

What takes one form. Reporting a tenant or RA?

Graces7

BostonB wrote: »

With respect you posted a whole story thats not relevent.

What takes one form. Reporting a tenant or RA?

What respect? And I was provoked;)

ONE FORM is all it takes re a RA tenant - period. You feel aggrieved? Not my problem.

Have a nice day!

the_syco

Graces7 wrote: »

ONE FORM is all it takes re a RA tenant - period. You feel aggrieved? Not my problem.

What Ray is seemingly pointing out is that on the LL's side more than one form is needed.

BostonB

Graces7 wrote: »

What respect? And I was provoked;)

ONE FORM is all it takes re a RA tenant - period. You feel aggrieved? Not my problem.

Have a nice day!

I was just pointing out Ray isn't alone is meandering off topic with little anecdotal stories, and I include myself in that. Why on earth would I feel aggrieved? Don't get that. I think Ray is pushing his own agenda mortgage/paperwork angle which while true for many people I don't think really is the crux of the matter. A mortgage is really the LL own problem. But there are LL who rely on the rental income as their main income. I think that often forgotten.

RA is paid in arrears and isn't guaranteed. So it exactly like non RA tenant except its always in arrears. Also a RA tenant is going to have less in reserve to cover shortfalls. So for those reasons alone its less preferable than a non ra tenant. Sure you can ask a RA tenant to pay a deposit and pay in advance like everyone else, but they are much less likely to be able to do that. If they fall into arrears of any kind, they have much less capacity to catch up on those arrears. So from a purely business POV its a less attractive risk.

Some would argue, that you can a bad non RA tenant, just as often as a bad RA tenant. Thats really not the issue. The core issue is a RA tenant has less capacity to pay. Having said that RA is something like 50% (my guesstimate from news reports) of the rental market. So while LL would prefer not to, a vast amount of them are taking RA tenants. I don't know if thats reflected in more or less problems as the PRTB doesn't produce stats on it. Have to assume most of fine.

Ultimately if you do have a problem of non payment, a RA tenant is no different to a Non RA tenant in terms of solutions. Reporting them, will cut their RA and their other payments. So they'll be even less likely to pay the LL. In my experience the other payments will be re-instated quite quickly. So the end result is the LL ends up out of pocket, often for thousands. You can't get money out of someone who doesn't have it.

ronan45

Just my tupence worth


I have found over the years that people who act the maggot with Money at the start will continuue that trend with you.
I have rented out to about 50 people give or take over the years. 90% Were Bloody great People. GREAT times with them.
There are the small percentage that will act up with money. What i have found it normally starts early in the rental. Bills not getting paid. Having to Pester and Pester about the 40 quid Gas bill. Rent then starts getting late. Then no rent for 1 month. Then Arrears, Then they give you 2 days notice and are gone. Oh ill sort you out later. (yeah they will :rolleyes:)
Im a sucker ill admit my advice, try to crack down early on this behaviour.