Soccer Forum last night - moderation erratic and unexplainable

_blank_

Hi all,

I've PMd the mods and a Sports CMod, but I really feel this Feedback needs to be given here also.

The moderation on the Soccer Forum last night was a bit strange, in my opinion.

Manchester United were beaten, and failed to qualify for the next round of the Champions League.

The trolls then came out.

One dug up a thread which was last posted to in May, to post

tee hee

Troll gets a reaction, and the reaction is carded.

Yes, I accept that calling someone a troll is against the charter, and should have been carded, no issue there, but why was the troll allowed to get away with it? The post was reported, the mod issuing the card to the reaction certainly saw the troll post also.

Another example.

Troll posts in the ManUtd thread. Post has been reported, no action. No card, no removal of post.

Someone reacts and is carded. Again, no issue with this card per se, it was a fairly bad reaction.

My main gripe is the fact that the Soccer moderators have encouraged trolling behaviour here, they have given the green light to people "acting the dick" and trying to get a rise out of others.

Why is the forum being taken in this direction?

Why are trolls being allowed free reign, while those reacting to them are being punished?

Punish both!

It's double standards.

I'm talking to one of the mods at the moment about why that thread was closed yet every time Arsenal go through a bump, one user keeps bumping the "Is it time for Wenger to go?" thread with pretty much a "Told you so" post. That thread has remained open for over two years despite reported posts and restrained posting from Arsenal fans.

Pure case of double standards.

Frisbee

Sorry Des, I was going to edit my post but saw you thanked it and I don't think you'll agree with this.

One thing I have noticed recently is the fact that "banter" is no longer being discouraged between fans. To be fair to Frisbee, they did post the following on the match thread:

Frisbee wrote:

I just wanted to point something out. The same United fans who are reporting the Europa League jokes etc. are the same United fans who were delighted to be posting the '8-2 be an Arsenal fan' jokes.

We didn't infract anyone for the '8-2' jokes so we're not going to start infracting people now for the Europa League and Channel 5 jokes.

The arguments I'm seeing are that when you get to direct it at someone else it's friendly banter.

But when it gets turned around and others are slagging you it's immediately trolling.

Quite simply if you can't take it don't give it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75888235&postcount=738

That to me is fair moderating, so credit where it's due and I hope that that level headed approach takes off in the SF.

_blank_

Dragging up a 6 month old thread to post "tee hee" can hardly be construed as "banter" can it?

Look, I engage in banter myself on the forum, with fans of all manner of teams (other LoI fans, Mr Alan and Kess who are Liverpool fans, among others).

Also, if the mods are going to be lenient on "Banter" then they need to be lenient on both sides of it, surely?

If people are going to be allowed post something that is going to cause a reaction, then you can't just police the reactions.

It isn't fair.

"We'll allow the posting of inflammatory material, but if anyone reacts in an inflammatory way, we'll come down on them"

Nice one.

Des

I agree with the dragging up a 6 moth old thread, but it was more to do with your point:

Des wrote:

Troll posts in the ManUtd thread. Post has been reported, no action. No card, no removal of post.

Someone reacts and is carded. Again, no issue with this card per se, it was a fairly bad reaction.

Super-Rush

I agree with your first example.

Dragging up a thread for the sole purpose of acting the dick is not on.

I couldn't disagree with you more about the second one.

_blank_

I concede the point on the second one, fair enough.

PHB

This is very simple.

No matter what, no matter what anyone says, no matter what anyone does, there is never, ever, ever, an acceptable reaction which includes abuse.

This includes Abusive Language or calling someone a troll.

The reasons for this are obvious, and under no circumstances would any sane person think that they should be changed.

Des you suggest that if somebody engages in banter that they should be allowed to be responded with in an abusive way? Are you blooody nuts? If that happened, every single match thread, every single one, would descend into chaos and the forum would end up being shut down. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

***

As for the double standards posts, it's not double standards. Double standards would be looking at two identical posts, and treating one differently. This is not double standards, it's simply a matter of policy.

After matches there is banter. Some of it is acceptable. Some of its not. It's entirely at the moderator's discretion as to what is good natured banter, which every football fans partakes in, and what is trolling. It's a judgement call, but it's funny that so far every single mod on the forum who has talked about it agrees with the same course of action independently of each other.

Banter. Trolling. Sometimes it's a fine line, but most of the time, and most of the posts, are not. And frankly, most of the people who did the complaining last night and the reporting of posts, are the exact same people who would be doing the same thing to opposing fans when they have a bad result.

Blatter

Des wrote: »

I concede the point on the second one, fair enough.

Well, the second example you brought up there, I think it would have been accepted as banter to post it in the match thread. Going into the United thread and doing straight after the result is trolling IMO. Why not just do it in the match thread? Why go specifically out of your way to post it in the United thread? Because he wanted to get as big a reaction as possible, from as many United fans as possible. That is not engaging in friendly banter, that is trolling.

For example, when Man Utd won the PL last season a few posters posted pics of Michael Owen with the PL trophy in the 'Congratulations Man Utd thread'. That was clearly a bit of banter aired towards Liverpool fans that would have been reading the thread, and it was posted in an acceptable place.

However, on that same day, someone else just left a picture of Michael Owen holding the PL trophy in the Liverpool thread. Didn't post anything, just the picture. I remember at the time Iago deleted it and warned against it. Which was the correct course of action. That poster specifically posted that picture in the Liverpool thread so he could target the largest number of Liverpool fans available, and get the biggest reaction he could. Again, his intentions were obvious. That is trolling, not banter.

I would say the same about situations regarding the United-Arsenal game that finished 8-2. No problem posting the 8-2 jokes in the match thread, or the United thread as the intention would be clearly banter. But posting it in the Arsenal thread, especially in the aftermath of the game, is crossing the line IMO.

The content of the post isn't the only thing to take into consideration when making a judgement on trolling. Who made the post, when it was posted and where it was posted are all just as important. But I suppose people know that already and it's up to the mods to judge these things accordingly.

And I'd love for a mod to explain how dragging up a 6 month old thread, on a bad night for United, and post ''tee hee'' isn't classed as trolling. That's pretty poor judgement tbh.

flahavaj

As long as T4TF is the senior mod you're not going to see such matters being dealt with in a very fair manner tbh.

DB10

Thread just signals whining from bitter United fans tbh.

The examples given seem to happen on a daily basis to opposition fans from United fans. It just so happens whenever United or Liverpool lose, threads descend into a few people enjoying the moment.

Back seat modding is back seat modding, I dont think the rule works especially in the OP post, but I've been banned for similar, so unless the rules changes that's what will happen. The mods seem to be playing it by the book here, which maybe where the criticism should go to, the rules?

starbelgrade

Des wrote: »

Manchester United were beaten, and failed to qualify for the next round of the Champions League.

Thanks for reminding me. :mad:

Zaph

flahavaj wrote: »

As long as T4TF is the senior mod you're not going to see such matters being dealt with in a very fair manner tbh.

It's been said before, but just to reiterate it - there's no such thing as a senior mod. All mods are of equal standing, and while newer mods may defer to an older hand while they're learning the ropes, the guys in Soccer are all experienced enough at this stage to make decisions on their own without needing to be guided by a co-mod.

LuckyLloyd

flahavaj wrote: »

As long as T4TF is the senior mod you're not going to see such matters being dealt with in a very fair manner tbh.

I can say from experience, the guy is a force of nature behind the scenes. Simply brilliant at modding an extremely difficult forum to mod. The Utd regulars have taken him as their very special cross to bear. Why?

I seem to remember one of these threads not too long ago including a challenge from an Admin for specific examples of his inadequate / biased modding - followed by a predictable failure to produce the same.

It is very important to note that the constant whining by the same small cadre of posters means very little. I'd be confident the majority of the forum have no issues with him (or any of the other mods). Ultimately the fact that they get away with posting unsubstantiated digs time after time in soccer feedback threads is a disgrace.

PHB

flahavaj wrote: »

As long as T4TF is the senior mod you're not going to see such matters being dealt with in a very fair manner tbh.

I know personally that I have a large distaste for Manchester United. Wait no, that'd be wrong...

Considering I was the mod that dealt with most of the issues brought up in this thread, how does that fit into the mod being biased theory?

Am I one of those self-hating United fans?

Mr. Presentable

flahavaj wrote: »

As long as T4TF is the senior mod you're not going to see such matters being dealt with in a very fair manner tbh.

Surely the fact that you still have posting privileges suggests he is more than fair.

I thought from a neutral's POV the modding was even-handed.

stovelid

Just ban United and Liverpool threads from the forum and let them slug it out in a private forum somewhere.

Feedback and Dispute Resolution could then probably afford to lay off a moderator.

RasTa

How comes this gets http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75958511&postcount=3303 infracted and it's ok to post daning gif's + all the stuff mentioned by the OP. Double standards much?

5starpool

If people would stop whinging about double standards, stop gloating and winding people up with comments they know are inflammatory, the SF would be a much more bearable place.

RasTa

Doubt it until all the clowns are gone and the only way to do that imo is ban the trolls as mentioned by the OP

Gary ITR

Slightly OT but Soccer has to be the most difficult forum to moderate on here, I know AH is tough but soccer is full of fanatics. I wouldn't do it for all the hookers in Amsterdam