The Boards "Brand", Community and Boards Deals

--amadeus--

First things first I think that Boards Deals is a genius idea. Mainly because it generates revenue meaning we get a free forum but in a way that helps the community rather than in a manner that is perceived as exploitative. And it works partly because there is a level of trust in the Boards brand. Posters trust Mods to keep order. Mods trust CMods to look after the DRP. Everyone trusts Admins to maintain and manage the site. And we trust the owners to act as custodians of the community.

But then we get offers like this:

Boards Deals: Niamh wrote: »

This is the time of year you really need to start boosting your immune system. Ionic Balance wrist bands have amazing and unique healing proporties and they come in a range of stylish colours to choose from!

Pay just €11 instead of €25 for Ionic Balance Band in your choice of colour plus delivery included with today's Boards Deal.

Buy this Deal now!

Ionic Balance wristbands emit a high concentration of negative ions. The astounding degree to which negative ions can contribute to good health is becoming increasingly apparent. Negative ions increase the flow of oxygen to the brain, resulting in higher alertness, decreased drowsiness and increased mental energy. This Christmas give the gift that keeps on giving! Check out the stylishly designed range of colours available here.

Healing Properties of Negative Ions:

• Recovery from physical exhaustion or fatigue
• Stabilizing brain function
• Blood purification
• Increasing metabolism
• Strengthening the immune system
• Balancing the autonomic nervous system
• Promoting better digestion
• Cell rejuvenation
• For overall health

Testimonials:
"I'm loving my band and had the best nights sleep last night that I've had in ages!" ~ Laura Grant (09/09/2011).

"I've only had mine on for two days and my tennis elbow is already markedly less painful." ~ David Latham (26/07/2011).

Visit the Ionic Balance website here for more information. Click here to read testimonials on Ionic Balance wrist bands.

How to use this voucher:

Your Boardsdeal voucher code will be activated on http://www.ionic-balance.com/buy-now.html within 72 hours.

Step One: Select the wristband that you want and add to cart.

Step Two: Coupon code field will be on this page. Enter your Boardsdeals security code (bottom left hand corner of voucher) and do not allow any extra spaces in the box.

Step Three: Place your order, and enjoy!

Ionic Balance
Click here for more information

There is not a single shred of credible scientific evidence to back the incredible claims made in this post up. And another peddler of pseudo-scientific bracelets has just had to admit that they have no grounding in reality and issue an apology and offers of refunds (here).

Now as a user here I have to abide by guidelines, one of which is that I cannot either give or request medical advice (here). The post above has no disclaimer, no qualifiers just a blunt statement of "fact"; Ionic Balance wrist bands have amazing and unique healing proporties. In my opinion this is as clear a breach of the medical policy as you are going to get.

Now 600+ people have signed up already (the old saying about a fool and his money springs to mind). So there is clearly a market for this kind of thing. But there is equally a market for black market viagra, penile enhancement pills and Nigerian Princes needing to shift a few billion around the banks. So the fact that there is a market isn't really a defence. These sort of products make grandiose claims that are backed up by testimonials (carefully selected, rarely independently verified and all with the placebo effect firmly in place) and impressive sounding scientific evidence that seems (in this case in particular) tangential to the product. These kind of new age high tech miracle healing products are a new kind of snake oil that often target the vulnerable or the desperate. Failed by modern medicine? Nothing left to lose? Try Product X, just €25, who knows it might just work?!

External voucher deal companies lack the credibility of Boards Deals because they are not linked to a community, there isn't that same level of trust. By offering deals like these I feel that trust is being abused. When I was a Mod I remember seeing threads discussing objectionable ads and commitments being made by the powers that be to investigate and remove them from the Ad stream if they were inappropriate. Which was an ethical response. Now it seems as if there is a cash first, questions later approach with offers like these. It reeks of a "we'll flog them any old tat, who cares!" attitude. That damages the credibility of the Boards Deals concept and by extension of the Boards brand itself. It undermines Moderators enforcing unpopular policies based on the ban on medical discussion. And it makes you wonder about the longer term direction of the site - is it drifting towards a Facebook style invasion of privacy to better generate revenue?

As I said I think Boards Deals is a great concept as it really is a win / win. But deals like this have the potential to really damage the golden goose.

Tallon

lol, is this a joke?

Is that really a deal?

Spear

Tallon wrote: »

lol, is this a joke?

Is that really a deal?

Appallingly, yes, it is :

https://www.boardsdeals.ie/deal/11-instead-of-25-for-Ionic-Balance-Band-in-your-choice-of-colour-plus-delivery-included/607/

seamus

Yeah, I broadly agree with amadeus.

It's a quality control issue for boardsdeals. Some people are interested in the deal, clearly, but there's a risk of cheapening the entire brand by offering deals on nonsense products.
As amadeus quite rightly points out, this kind of thing is just barely a step above selling deals on penile enlargement pills and human pheremones, and gives the impression that boardsdeals will promote any deal on any old crap.

Tallon

I'm truely shocked... Seriously..

El Weirdo

Healing Properties of Negative Ions:

• Recovery from physical exhaustion or fatigue
• Stabilizing brain function
• Blood purification
• Increasing metabolism
• Strengthening the immune system
• Balancing the autonomic nervous system
• Promoting better digestion
• Cell rejuvenation
• For overall health

Bollocks of the highest order.

Can we request a link to scientific studies to back these claims up? If a regular user made these claims they'd be rightly called out on them.

Tallon

El Weirdo wrote: »

Bollocks of the highest order.

Can we request a link to scientific studies to back these claims up? If a regular user made these claims they'd be rightly called out on them.

just ask Laura Grant!

"I'm loving my band and had the best nights sleep last night that I've had in ages!" ~ Laura Grant (09/09/2011).

El Weirdo

Tallon wrote: »

just ask Laura Grant!

From the website:

"My boyfriend told me that they were a heap of rubbish when I got mine and didn't believe that I was getting the best nights sleep I had had in years. When he started complaining of back ache I told him to wear it for a few weeks he did to shut me up but will not give it back to me now as it has helped him no end. So the good thing about Ionic is that they proved me right (again he he) but now I am bandless witless ("
Vicki Rennie - 07/11/2011

FYP for you there, love.

themadchef

Deals have to appeal to a wide spectrum though. I bet if there was a Lego offer some of yee would flood yeer Y fronts :P:pac:

Not my cuppa, but it's pretty harmless crap imo. Not site threatening.

Tallon

themadchef wrote: »

Deals have to appeal to a wide spectrum though. I bet if there was a Lego offer some of yee would flood yeer Y fronts :P:pac:

Not my cuppa, but it's pretty harmless crap imo. Not site threatening.

Lego doesn't claim to cure cancer

El Weirdo

A warning from the website:

Unfortunately there are many unscrupulous companies out there that sell either counterfeit items or products that have no health benefits whatsoever. Many have bogus claims, and usually lack any sort of scientifc evidence to back up these claims.

Quite.

Cookie_Monster

themadchef wrote: »

. I bet if there was a Lego offer some of yee would flood yeer Y fronts :P:pac:

damn right, but that's cos Lego is awesome and amazing and has some actual science in it, not just hippy nonsense.

Penn

themadchef wrote: »

Deals have to appeal to a wide spectrum though. I bet if there was a Lego offer some of yee would flood yeer Y fronts :P:pac:

Not my cuppa, but it's pretty harmless crap imo. Not site threatening.

Difference between catering to other tastes, and a Boards Deals Rep having this in one of their posts:

Boards Deals: Niamh wrote: »

This is the time of year you really need to start boosting your immune system. Ionic Balance wrist bands have amazing and unique healing proporties

To me, this implies that Boards Deals is representing this product as having some scientific and medical basis, when it just doesn't. Nobody is supposed to give medical advice on Boards, no matter how minor. This post is basically implying that if you use this band it will boost your immune system and has healing properties.

themadchef

All im saying is, Boards is just a just that, a boards offering a company a slot to sell its wares. At what point is it to draw the line?

Is it to go and test the beds in hotels?3£ star not good enough for Boardsies? 4 star? then 5 star maybe

Allow nothing that is not scentifically certified by the medical boarsd of Ireland?

Restaurants only the ones with georgina Campbell (who's she) or some similar certified star rating guide to be posted.

I mean how exactly are Boards to choose who is and who is not a "great, honest, proper, holistic, medically certified, etc etc" deal.

They are just offering the service. I wasiint aware they were certifying the actual goods?

I hear what people are saying about those bands. They are a pile of shoite, and clearly seem to be so. If people still choose to buy them though who are we to stop them? Isint that how life goes? Not everyone is going to think they are a pile of shoite. Some poeple will believe they work simply because someone on the internet told them they did :rolleyes:

minidazzler

themadchef wrote: »

I hear what people are saying about those bands. They are a pile of shoite, and clearly seem to be so. If people still choose to buy them though who are we to stop them? Isint that how life goes? Not everyone is going to think they are a pile of shoite. Some poeple will believe they work simply because someone on the internet told them they did :rolleyes:

That problem isn't about people buying them, it's about the boards brand being used to make medical claims when if boardsies make specific medical claims they can be warned, infracted or in some forums banned.

Technically though, I don't think boards deals is under the boards brand it's more under distilled media...but if that argument is made by the boards deals people I think we are all in the right to call BS on it given boards is in the name and we are the community was created because of.

Is Boards Deals, Boards and Distilled Media really prepared to put their name behind this product as actually being a viable healing device?

TouchingVirus

minidazzler wrote: »

Is Boards Deals, Boards and Distilled Media really prepared to put their name behind this product as actually being a viable healing device?

Do they have to?

If the promo-post didn't appear on Boards, would you still be here?

themadchef

Penn wrote: »

Difference between catering to other tastes, and a Boards Deals Rep having this in one of their posts:


To me, this implies that Boards Deals is representing this product as having some scientific and medical basis, when it just doesn't. Nobody is supposed to give medical advice on Boards, no matter how minor. This post is basically implying that if you use this band it will boost your immune system and has healing properties.

Ya know what, that minute the Boatds rep starts posting like that. I completly agree with you.

I totally missed that

Apologies. I didint realise the Mod was plugging the the product! I though they were just posting in the traditional "Deal here off yee go and buy it if yee want it" fashion. WTf is up it plugging it In for a world of trouble when the shít dont work

\Puts tail between legs and leaves :P (try not to boot me up the hole !)

Penn

themadchef wrote: »

Ya know what, that minute the Boatds rep starts posting like that. I completly agree with you.

I totally missed that http://omg.wthax.org/sad_puppy.jpg

Apologies. I didint realise the Mod was plugging the the product! I though they were just posting in the traditional "Deal here off yee go and buy it if yee want it" fashion. WTf is up it plugging it In for a world of trouble when the shít dont work

\Puts tail between legs and leaves :P (try not to boot me up the hole !)

To be fair, I would think (and hope) that the Boards Deal rep didn't type that, and instead it may have been part of the information supplied by the company offering the deal. But it should have been checked and removed, as it's posted under the name of the BD rep, so looks like a claim they are making.

jor el

I think a product like this does cheapen the Boards Deals brand, because I believe the claims being made are unsubstantiated, and have no medical backing at all. Associating Boards Deals with these false claims cannot be a good thing, and when a rep goes on to promote the product by saying; This is the time of year you really need to start boosting your immune system. Ionic Balance wrist bands have amazing and unique healing properties, it goes beyond just promoting a deal and goes into full association with the product. That's of course if this wasn't just part of the blurb from the retailing company, though it does look like a personal endorsement from Boards Deals.

The deal is there, people don't have to buy it, and they can check up on the claims for themselves and make their own minds up. I would be concerned for the brand name though, as association with this product may turn people away from future deals.

--amadeus--

Penn wrote: »

To be fair, I would think (and hope) that the Boards Deal rep didn't type that, and instead it may have been part of the information supplied by the company offering the deal. But it should have been checked and removed, as it's posted under the name of the BD rep, so looks like a claim they are making.

I'm not so sure. If you Google "Ionic Balance wrist bands have amazing and unique healing proporties" the only results you get are Boards / Boards Deals related. Correct the typo and there are no matches so I would assume that line was made up and typed by the rep.

I get the argument that we are all adults and if people are dumb enough to buy worthless crap then Meh, let them knock themselves out. My point is that by promoting and endorsing it there is a perception that Boards will flog any old crap to it's members to turn a quick buck. Now I don't believe that to be true of the Admins or the likes of Dev or Dav. But there is a new hierarchy and structure that is tasked with monetising the site. My point is just that the value in the site is the community and things like this devalue your credibility with the community. You'll get away with a certain amount but not forever.

Zaph

For those who haven't seen Emma's post in the Boards Deals forum, the deal has been pulled and a full refund will be offered to anyone who wants one.

Tallon

Is that based on this thread may I ask?

If so, that is very fair and amicable that opinions were listened to

My name is URL

It's not the only deal on the site which uses dubious claims to sell itself.

There was another deal for aromatherapy running at the same time which claims the following -

The oils are particularly good for the lymphatic system, digestive system, the skin and for ailments such as fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety and stress

https://www.boardsdeals.ie/deal/30-instead-of-60-for-1-hour-Aromatherapy-Massage-OR-1-hour-Stress-Buster-Massage-at-Irish-Holistic-Healing-D/608/

I'm certain other deals for aromatherapy treatments have been advertised and made similar claims. I also remember seeing one for salt therapy which claimed to be a treatment for asthma and bronchitis. Why all the fuss about the Ionic Band deal and none of the others?

Some of the many benefits you'll receive from treatment at Salt Therapy Spa or Wellness Centre include:

• Clearence of bronchial inflammation
• Removal of airborne pollen particles from airways
• Strengthening of immune system that decreases allergic reaction to pollens
• Cleansing and sanitation of the airways
• Prevention and treatment of common colds and flu
• Improvement of dermatological disorders such as acne, dermatitis and psoriasis
• Reduction of snoring
• Better sleep

themadchef

My name is URL wrote: »

It's not the only deal on the site which uses dubious claims to sell itself.

There was another deal for aromatherapy running at the same time which claims the following -

Who's going to deem them selves to be judge and jury on a deal?
The mod? The posters? The forum?

"Dubious" to you, but some people swear by aromatherapy, some people swear by acupuncture, some people think it's a load of crap.

Some people love sushi and some people think it's just raw fish, "yuck".

I totally agree that the mods shouldint get involved in the promotion of the deal. I dont think as posters we should have a say in what should and should not be offered though.

Zaph

Tallon wrote: »

Is that based on this thread may I ask?

If so, that is very fair and amicable that opinions were listened to

You'd need to ask Emma that. It's a matter outside of the scope of the admins so I'm afraid I have no insight into the decision that was taken.

DeVore

We always take fair and reasoned responses into consideration, we are far from perfect but we're willing to learn.

I think its a complex question about constraining what can and cant be sold. I guess ultimately it will be a decision for Boards HQ as to what things it wants to associate the "brand" with. It honestly never occured to us that something like this would be an issue but now we will consider such things in future.

Thanks for all the feedback guys and gals, its genuinely appreciated and I hope its clear we take it to heart.

DeV.

DeVore

Ok... Gave this 5 seconds thought and it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit... but have an issue when it appears that Boards is actively promoting its "healing properties".

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

My name is URL

themadchef wrote: »

Who's going to deem them selves to be judge and jury on a deal?
The mod? The posters? The forum?

"Dubious" to you, but some people swear by aromatherapy, some people swear by acupuncture, some people think it's a load of crap.

Some people love sushi and some people think it's just raw fish, "yuck".

I totally agree that the mods shouldint get involved in the promotion of the deal. I dont think as posters we should have a say in what should and should not be offered though.

That's kind of the point I was failing to make. =p

It's pointless and a little unfair to demand that certain claims not be made on the site if it's only going to extend to certain products or services.

seamus

DeVore wrote: »

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

My name is URL wrote: »

It's pointless and a little unfair to demand that certain claims not be made on the site if it's only going to extend to certain products or services.

I think it would be fair to say that it needs to be made clear that "This is a deal we are offering, and here's what the supplier/manufacturer/hotel say about their product".

At least in that regard, there's a certain separation and there's a certain amount of, "Boardsdeals provide this deal without making any claims as to the quality or efficiacy of the product being sold". But then you don't want that either necessarily, if people think your deals are tat & bunkum, they'll unsubscribe.

In relation to "alternative therapies" though, I think MNiU, you're missing a layer from the equation. Although these therapies often claim all sorts of pseudo-scientific nonsense, people know what they're buying when they go to an aromatherapy session, and many people will enjoy it purely for the relaxation element. They go because the experience is pleasureable, they don't all believe that there are healing properties in the aromas.

These bands appear to be trying to cut out that middleman layer, so all you have is pseudoscience but without the mental relaxation and pleasureable experience aspect.

Ironically though as pointed out on the other thread, the manufacturer has every right to claim that these bands work. Because they do. It's just the fact that they decide to make up some nonsense about why they work that's landed them in trouble. I guess they don't want to say, "You can buy this off us or just buy your own elastic band and wrap it around your wrist. Either will work".

ecoli

My name is URL wrote: »

That's kind of the point I was failing to make. =p

It's pointless and a little unfair to demand that certain claims not be made on the site if it's only going to extend to certain products or services.

The reason issues are arising on the ART forum is the fact that there is a direct contrast between whats allowed in terms if the forums (medical advice) and what is being allowed under Boardsdeals.

I know that Boards deals is outside the usual parameters of the forum however when there is a forum for the Boards deals (usually Linked from here to the actual deal) it becomes an issue for moderators to actually enforce this site wide policy

Penn

DeVore wrote: »

Ok... Gave this 5 seconds thought and it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit... but have an issue when it appears that Boards is actively promoting its "healing properties".

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

I'd have no issue with any of these types of products being promoted or advertised on the site. For me, this issue was that these claims of the medicinal qualities of this product was in a post made by a Boards Deals employee. If the Boards Deals rep had maybe done something like:

Boards Deals wrote:

Here's a new offer from Ionic Bracelet company:

Ionic Bracelet Company wrote:

Company's ad here

To avail of this offer....etc

to make it clear that those claims are part of the ad by the company, and not a claim made by Boards Deals.

Tallon

I'm the other side of the fence.. I just can't believe someone who approved this type of add thought it was a viable product to advertise to people

Next week, they'll be selling Dowsing rods

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

In relation to "alternative therapies" though, I think MNiU, you're missing a layer from the equation. Although these therapies often claim all sorts of pseudo-scientific nonsense, people know what they're buying when they go to an aromatherapy session, and many people will enjoy it purely for the relaxation element. They go because the experience is pleasureable, they don't all believe that there are healing properties in the aromas.

But I thought that the whole issue that people have about this is the claims being made about the product, not the product itself?

Perhaps some people purchased the item simply because they're into that sort of woolly-headed thing for whatever reason. I highly doubt that all of the 700+ people who have purchased the band done so because they believe it'll cure what ails 'em.

The same can be said for the Aromatherapy and Speleotherapy deals.. sure, some people will buy them because they find the overall experience to be pleasurable, but undoubtedly others will be swayed by the specific health claims being made.

One of the testimonials from another salt therapy deal - https://www.boardsdeals.ie/deal/40-instead-of-90-for-3-Salt-Therapy-Sessions-plus-a-free-Starter-Session-at-the-Salt-Cave-Clinic-Maynooth/578/

"I brought my children to the Salt Cave Clinic in Maynooth, After one session their blocked nose cleared up and their cough improved a lot. Three sessions were enough to get rid of their symptoms which used to take two or three weeks" ~ Susanne, Mum of three from Celbridge

28064212

DeVore wrote: »

Ok... Gave this 5 seconds thought and it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit... but have an issue when it appears that Boards is actively promoting its "healing properties".

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

Essentially, yes. Regardless of the fact that Boards just regurgitates whatever the seller tells them, the fact remains that Boards sends out text which says "this band has healing properties". If this deal consisted of text that just said "ionic bands for sale", I wouldn't have an issue with it. In that case, it's 'buyer beware' (although Ionic Balance themselves should be done for fraudulent advertising).

It's the appearance that Boards agrees with the manufacturer's claims that is the troubling part

jor el

DeVore wrote: »

...it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit ...
So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

I would say that a banner ad wouldn't have the same connection to Boards as an organised deal or promotion.

The association between Boards Deals and the products they promote is far greater than a banner ad, which is all handled by automatic scripts and such. The Deals are organised by people, and you would therefore put more faith in them as being genuine and reliable, where as an ad is just an ad.

One thing though, even if they were to offer it in such a way as seamus put it, by making it clear that the blurb is from the supplier and not Boards Deals' opinion, I'd still say you'd associate the product strongly with Boards Deals (and Boards.ie) because of the fact that these are specifically organised by the crew at HQ. The Boards people should be able to stand over the deal, as they will be first in the firing line if something goes wrong, and the first port of call for unhappy or disgruntled buyers.

Tallon

FYI

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064470/Power-Balance-shells-57m-settle-lawsuit-bracelets.html

28064212

Tallon wrote: »

FYI

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064470/Power-Balance-shells-57m-settle-lawsuit-bracelets.html

Ah but that's Power Balance, they use the clearly makey-uppy "hologram resonancy" technique. The Ionic Balance bands use the much more scientific "negative ions" method.

DeVore

"I brought my children to the Salt Cave Clinic in Maynooth, After one session their blocked nose cleared up and their cough improved a lot. Three sessions were enough to get rid of their symptoms which used to take two or three weeks" ~ Susanne, Mum of three from Celbridge

My guess is that the kid decided they would rather go to school after all than back to the salt caves

DeV.

Fear Uladh

I would love to hear from the supposed 600 people that bought this miracle.

Morag

Fear Uladh wrote: »

I would love to hear from the supposed 600 people that bought this miracle.

I wonder how many even post on boards.ie and how they could buy such a shíte present for anyone, seriously don't give your granny that, give her a bottle of her favourite tipple.

minidazzler

DeVore wrote: »

Ok... Gave this 5 seconds thought and it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit... but have an issue when it appears that Boards is actively promoting its "healing properties".

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

I would say yes, very fair to say, given that what essentially happened is we received emails saying "we can heal you, for 11 euro." I've gotten plenty of those types of emails from far less reputable sites, it would suck if Boards deals went that way, but I doubt it ever would!

TouchingVirus

You folks wouldn't let it :P

donothoponpop

DeVore wrote: »

Ok... Gave this 5 seconds thought and it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit... but have an issue when it appears that Boards is actively promoting its "healing properties".

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

A banner ad doesn't have a "report post" button, doesn't appear in the same manner as every other post on Boards. I "report button" the original, then made a complaint to the forum mods (as per the proper procedures), and was told that the forum mods don't have any say or control over this subforum of their discussion group. This part of Boards seems to be allowed to operate under different rules (my original gripe was with their "boost your immune system" crap, when athletes can't even discuss common injuries).

tbh

DeVore wrote: »

Ok... Gave this 5 seconds thought and it occurs to me that people probably wouldnt have an issue with a banner ad for this Ionic whatsit... but have an issue when it appears that Boards is actively promoting its "healing properties".

So its the promotion which is an issue?
Would that be fair to say?

DeV.

the promotion probably made this a more visible issue and more directly linked to boards. However it's probably not fair to say that people wouldn't have an issue with it if it were a banner ad - I and others have complained about spurious ads for miracle cures appearing in the LTI forum - you and I have discussed that issue - in fairness I've not really seen any objectionable ads in a whole except the one for UPC

LoLth

its weird but when I saw the boardsdeal for Ionic balancer the thought that it was being endorsed by boards.ie never entered my head. I just thought, "wow, thats a crap deal I wont be buying".

Boards has a lot of users following a broad spectrum of beliefs. Some believe in Wiccan magic, others believe in the power of Faith to heal, some might even believe in the power of pseudo science negative ionic sci-fi flux capacitors. If you're not interested in it, dont buy it. There might be a deal next week that fits your beliefs perfectly that someone else thinks is absolute crap.

I knew a guy that had these pressure point wristbands that , when he wore them he didnt suffer motion sickness but he couldnt last more than a minute on a bus without them. maybe these are similar. I also know one person that went to Fatima and burnt a wax leg and has a noticably reduced limp and no longer complains of pain during damp weather. And I knew one girl who used a wiccan charm to cause her friend to pass his college exams (no, him studying his arse off in a panic had nothing to do with it!). Point is, just because you dont believe in the pseudo science, doesnt mean someone else doesnt (and you can think of those people what you like , just try to be polite about it if you feel the need to share) and this boardsdeal might be exactly what they are looking for.

The alternative is that all boardsdeals, no matter what, are vetted according to a set of acceptable beliefs. Would you be happy if your preferred belief were not on that acceptable list?

I would say that seperating the fact that boards is making the deal available from the claims made by *any* advertiser would only help the issue. Though, in all honesty, I never really thought that it was boards that was claiming miracle hair results or that X makeup package was the ultimate experience one could have involving the application of chemicals.

ecoli

LoLth wrote: »

The alternative is that all boardsdeals, no matter what, are vetted according to a set of acceptable beliefs. Would you be happy if your preferred belief were not on that acceptable list?

Thats the point I know a few people have been making. How can the medical advice rule which prohibits many topics be enforced when products such as this are being sold under the boards brand are claiming properties which are in direct conflict of the No medical advice rule?

Either the deals are subject to the rules (moreso than beliefs) or the rules can't be properly enforced

Morag

Should we expect that boardsdeals advertising be of a certain level? I think we should.
It looks like the makers of this product got thier wrist slapped in the UK and then tried to sell as many of them here as possible. Is it too much to expect those who are putting the deals together to do a little research on the products and to have some ethical guidelines?

Googling the product name would have brought this up.

http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/10/Ionic-Balance/SHP_ADJ_162457.aspx

A Facebook page, and the Ionic Balance website, viewed on 12 and 24 June 2011:

a. The Facebook page, headed "Ionic Balance - Benefits" stated "Utilising the unique healing properties of the gemstone tourmaline an Ionic Balance Band emits negative ions and far infrared rays, which can have the following benefits: - INCREASED ENERGY - INCREASED STAMINA - ENHANCED IMMUNE FUNCTION - QUICKER RESPONSE - REDUCED FATIGUE - IMPROVED FLEXIBILITY - DEEPER SLEEP - IMPROVED MOOD - FASTER HEALING - BOOSTED METABOLISM - IMPROVED BALANCE - GREATER WELLBEING - STABILISED BLOOD PRESSURE - SHARPER CONCENTRATION - REGULATED SERATONIN LEVELS - FASTER RECOVERY - AMPLIFIED STRENGTH - MORE FOCUS".

b. The Ionic Balance website was headed "Ionic Balance - Ultra Performance" and restated the claims from the Facebook page. Further pages discussed at length the efficacious effects of tourmaline, including the effects of negative ions, far infrared rays and alpha waves, which the ad claimed were generated by the mineral. The text referenced a number of studies and a range of medical conditions.

A page headed "Endorsements" listed the profiles of several sportspeople. The Inverness Caledonian Thistle player Ross Tokely was quoted as stating, "My Ionic Balance wristband definitely has increased my stamina, strength and endurance. My powers of concentration, my focus and my sleep patterns have improved dramatically. I have Ionic Balance to thank for this, and can recommend the wearing of an ionic-balance.com wristband, to anyone."

A paged headed "Disclaimer" stated "Ionic Balance nor its distributors, make any claim that any of its products are intended to prevent, cure, mitigate, treat or diagnose illness. If you believe you have a health problem, you should consult a doctor or health professiona.."
Issue

1. Two complainants challenged whether the efficacy claims in ads (a) and (b) were misleading and could be substantiated.

2. One complainant challenged whether the efficacy claims in the celebrity endorsements in ad (b) were misleading and could be substantiated.

3. One complainant challenged whether the disclaimer in ad (b) contradicted the efficacy claims throughout the website.

The ASA challenged whether the:

4. efficacy claims in ad (b) for negative ions, tourmaline, far infrared rays and alpha waves were misleading and could be substantiated;

5. efficacy claims in ad (b) for negative ions, tourmaline, far infrared rays and alpha waves misleadingly implied that the product would produce the same effects; and

6. references to serious medical conditions in ads (a) and (b) could discourage essential treatment for which medical supervision should be sought.
CAP Code (Edition 12)
12.112.212.612.73.13.453.473.73.9
Response

1. Ionic Balance said the efficacy claims on the ‘Benefits’ page of their Facebook entry and on their website’s home page were keywords taken from well-known studies. They said the information supporting those claims was contained in the sections of their website relating to negative ions, far infrared rays and alpha waves. They provided 28 documents, including abstracts of studies, full studies, and surveys of literature on the subjects, which they said substantiated the efficacy claims.

2. Ionic Balance said they had added a disclaimer to their testimonials page to state that “This is some of the feedback we have received. This is for your reference and does not guarantee the efficacy/performance of the product. Please consult a doctor if you need medical treatment”.

3. Ionic Balance said their disclaimer was valid, because they did not sell a medical device and advised anyone with a medical condition to consult a doctor or healthcare professional.

4. Ionic Balance sad they did not believe the claims were misleading because they quoted studies and well-known facts which were freely available on the internet. They said it might seem that there was almost too much information on their website, but they would rather have too much than too little. They referred to the documents they had provided to substantiate the efficacy claims.

5. Ionic Balance said the content in ad (b) did not in any way specifically promise consumers that they would experience the same effects. They said they tried to be as clear as possible, and had a no-quibble money-back guarantee.

6. Ionic Balance said they did not discourage people from seeking professional medical help, and if consumers asked them medical questions they told them to consult a doctor. They said that was proven in their responses to users on their Facebook page. They said that in some cases they had actively encouraged people to seek medical advice before buying the product.
Assessment

1. Upheld

The ASA considered that the efficacy claims in the ads would need to be supported by robust, controlled and blinded studies.

We noted that 13 of the 28 documents provided by Ionic Balance were abstracts. We noted we had not seen the full studies relating to the abstracts, and therefore considered that those abstracts alone were not sufficiently robust to substantiate the claims.

Out of the remaining 15 documents, ten made a range of claims in relation to the efficacy of far infrared rays and negative ions. Some of the documents referred to the results of studies and provided references for those, but others did not include any references or provide other evidence for their claims. None were detailed accounts of research studies. Most appeared on websites selling products which used far infrared rays and negative ions, and none appeared to have been published in peer-reviewed journals. We therefore considered that those documents did not constitute robust substantiation for the claims.

A further document was an article which had been published in a peer-reviewed journal in 1976, which primarily discussed research conducted by the authors and other scientists into the effects of positive and negative air ions on bacteria, mice and rats. The article referred briefly to research into the effects of positive air ions on humans and the results of a treatment using the inhalation of air which contained high numbers of negative ions. We noted the article had been peer-reviewed but considered that, without viewing the studies referenced in the article, that document in itself did not constitute robust substantiation for the claims.

A further three documents were research studies which examined the effects of negative ions in air on levels of stress, fatigue and reaction speeds, and on seasonal affective disorder (SAD). We noted those studies examined the effects of different levels of negative ions in the air rather than those generated by tourmaline. We also noted that those studies were conducted on 20, 24 and 25 subjects respectively, which we considered to be insufficient numbers for the studies to be robust substantiation for the strong efficacy claims made in the ad. It was also unclear as to whether the studies, which researched the effects of negative ions on levels of stress, fatigue and reaction speeds, had been published in peer-reviewed journals. We therefore considered that those studies did not constitute robust substantiation for the claims.

A final study researched the biological effects on human skin of a cream containing powdered tourmaline, when applied to the faces of ten adults. However, we considered that to support the “Benefits” claims in the ads, we would need to see robust evidence relating to the product. We also considered that a study on only ten subjects was not sufficiently robust to support the claims in the ad. We concluded the study did not constitute robust substantiation for the claims.

Because the advertiser had not provided robust substantiation for the efficacy claims in the ads, we concluded the claims were misleading.

On this point, ads (a) and (b) breached CAP Code rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation), 12.1, 12.6 and 12.7 (Medicines, medical devices, health-related products and beauty products).

2. Upheld

We noted Ionic Balance had not provided any evidence that the celebrities had made the statements on the testimonials page, nor that they had experienced the effects described in the testimonials. Because we had not seen evidence to support the efficacy claims in the celebrity endorsements, we concluded they were misleading.

On this point, ad (b) breached CAP Code rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation), 3.45 and 3.47 (Endorsements and Testimonials) and 12.1 (Medicines, medical devices, health-related products and beauty products).

3. Upheld

We noted that Ionic Balance did not consider their product to be a medical device, but noted the ad made a number of efficacy claims, including “BOOSTED METABOLISM”, “STABILISED BLOOD PRESSURE”, “IMPROVED BLOOD CIRCULATION”, “FASTER HEALING”, and “ENHANCED IMMUNE FUNCTION”, which suggested that the product could restore, correct or modify a physiological function or metabolic action and was, therefore, medicinal. We considered that efficacy claims throughout the website both directly stated and implied that the Ionic Balance Band could prevent, mitigate or cure a range of medical conditions. We therefore considered the disclaimer contradicted, rather than clarified, the claims it was intended to qualify. We concluded the ad breached the Code.

On this point, ad (b) breached CAP Code rule 3.9 (Qualification).

4. Upheld

For the reasons noted above, we considered we had not seen robust evidence to substantiate the efficacy claims for negative ions, tourmaline, far infrared rays and alpha waves. We therefore concluded the efficacy claims were misleading.

On this point, ad (b) breached CAP Code rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation), 12.1, 12.6 and 12.7 (Medicines, medical devices, health-related products and beauty products).

5. Upheld

We acknowledged that, in its descriptions of the effects of negative ions, tourmaline, far infrared rays and alpha waves, the ad did not specifically state that wearers of the Ionic Balance Band would experience the same effects. However, we considered that, because the ad highlighted that tourmaline, the ‘active ingredient’ of the product, produced negative ions, far infrared rays and alpha waves, and went on to make efficacy claims in relation to them, the ad implied that the Ionic Balance Band would also have those effects on wearers. Because we had not seen any evidence that the product could have the effects claimed for tourmaline, negative ions, far infrared rays and alpha waves, we concluded the ad was misleading.

On this point, ad (b) breached CAP Code rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation), 12.1, 12.6 and 12.7 (Medicines, medical devices, health-related products and beauty products).

6. Upheld in relation to ad (b) only

We noted Ionic Balance’s view that they did not discourage people from seeking essential medical advice because, when potential customers contacted them and asked whether the product could help a specific medical condition, they told them they should contact a doctor. However, we considered that many people would purchase the product without contacting Ionic Balance, and furthermore, that the advertiser’s actions after being contacted by potential customers was not relevant to whether the ads themselves could discourage people from seeking essential medical advice.

We noted ad (a), the Facebook page titled ‘Benefits’, did not specifically refer to any serious medical conditions. We concluded that it did not discourage essential treatment for which medical supervision should be sought.

We noted ad (b) referred to a range of health problems, including serious medical conditions such as asthma, arthritis, stroke, high blood pressure, gout, bronchitis and kidney problems. We considered that those conditions were conditions for which medical supervision should be sought, and that the claims could discourage patients from seeking essential treatment for those conditions. We therefore concluded that the claims breached the Code.

On this point, we investigated ad (a) under CAP Code rule 12.2 (Medicines, medical devices, health-related products and beauty products), but did not find it in breach.

On this point, ad (b) breached CAP Code rule 12.2 (Medicines, medical devices, health-related products and beauty products).
Action

Ads (a) and (b) must not appear again in their current form. We told Ionic Balance they should not make efficacy claims for the Ionic Balance Band, including in testimonials and endorsements, unless they held robust substantiation that the product could have those effects. We also told them they should not make efficacy claims for tourmaline, negative ions, far infrared rays or alpha waves unless they held robust substantiation that they could have those effects. We told them they should not refer to medical conditions for which medical supervision should be sought. We also told them that they should ensure any disclaimers did not contradict the information it was intended to qualify.

Oh and if boardsdeals was to start offering voodoo dolls, hoodoo powders, hex bags, or any sort of charms/simples/philtres as anything other then a novelty item then I would be raising objections too.

Dr Galen

I think Boards HQ ( Distilled Media really) are going to have to make some decisions about how integrated all the sites within the "family" are and are going to be. For many of us Boards.ie is the daddy with things like adverts being the children, offshoots of the parent as such.

Over time, this seems to have changed, and now Adverts and Deals are pretty separate entities, and thus, the question is, what is the link between those sites and here. Maybe the same rules just don't apply?

/devils advocate

_blank_

as long as it's called Boardsdeals, it's going to be associated with Boards.ie

Tallon

Adverts too.. since it's embedded under everyones username... It's not like people can opt out

tbh

Dr Galen wrote: »

I think Boards HQ ( Distilled Media really) are going to have to make some decisions about how integrated all the sites within the "family" are and are going to be. For many of us Boards.ie is the daddy with things like adverts being the children, offshoots of the parent as such.

Over time, this seems to have changed, and now Adverts and Deals are pretty separate entities, and thus, the question is, what is the link between those sites and here. Maybe the same rules just don't apply?

/devils advocate

you can login with your boards id, the logo is based on the boards logo, it says:

About BoardsDeals

Boards.ie is Ireland's biggest discussion forum. With 2.2 million visitors per month we rival national primetime television in terms of audience.
Now, Boards.ie brings you BoardsDeals - amazing and exclusive deals from all around Ireland!

Boards deals is a way to take advantage of a pre-existing audience, and it leverages the brand loyalty of boards.ie. No problem with that whatsoever. I'd argue that, at least initially, boards deals wouldn't have had the same success if it were just another deals site. No problem with that. However, that means that boards.ie takes the rough with the smooth - if boards has nothing to do with boards deals, then remove all boards references and change the name. If not, then stand over the site when things like this come up.