Casual Labour

bob charles

Im bemoaning the minor party in power but more the fact that its hard to find casual labour. All the decent guys I have had over the past have either departed shores or are working. Everyone else seems to be drawing the dole and not willing to come of it for a farming weeks wages. @ €10 per hour for not too brain taxing work I dont think is too bad, people just dont want to graft no more. If I had a tennor for every hour I work in business I would have enough made by the time I was thirty.

Anyway at what point does one have to pay PRSI for a casual worker. If im talking about hiring a guy for say a week here and there or a few days a week etc. Is there a threshold that I have to go over before I have to pay PRSI. I have no problem with the full time PRSI stuff but Im not up to speed when employing seasonal labour. I know from a insurance point of view everything is okay but I just want to keep everything above board

whelan1

i feel your pain:o have a guy on 3 day week, pay tax , he gets dole other days, asked him today to stay fulltime till end of january , he said no, he's too busy working with other people the other days- wtf, i pay his tax, he is claiming dole on the other days, am quite annoyed. So what choice do i have ?

lakill Farm

whelan1 wrote: »

i feel your pain:o have a guy on 3 day week, pay tax , he gets dole other days, asked him today to stay fulltime till end of january , he said no, he's too busy working with other people the other days- wtf, i pay his tax, he is claiming dole on the other days, am quite annoyed. So what choice do i have ?

Look for someone else i guess. Maybe a 3rd level student? they will be off next week for 4 weeks over christmas?

whelan1

just rang accountant, i have to get him to sign a letter for sw that he refused to work the extra days, he is not allowed under sw rules to claim after refusing work:cool: he will be in tomorrow so i will guage his reaction when i say that to him... would be a bit messy to have 2 different people in different days , but its getting very stressful on me to get back in the house for 8.30 with scrapers, milking etc to be done b4 that

Donegal09

bob charles wrote: »

Im bemoaning the minor party in power but more the fact that its hard to find casual labour. All the decent guys I have had over the past have either departed shores or are working. Everyone else seems to be drawing the dole and not willing to come of it for a farming weeks wages. @ €10 per hour for not too brain taxing work I dont think is too bad, people just dont want to graft no more. If I had a tennor for every hour I work in business I would have enough made by the time I was thirty.

Anyway at what point does one have to pay PRSI for a casual worker. If im talking about hiring a guy for say a week here and there or a few days a week etc. Is there a threshold that I have to go over before I have to pay PRSI. I have no problem with the full time PRSI stuff but Im not up to speed when employing seasonal labour. I know from a insurance point of view everything is okay but I just want to keep everything above board

If you look hard enough theres plenty of students and young lads out there looking for work and they dont mind pulling up their sleeves and lifting a grape

lakill Farm

whelan1 wrote: »

just rang accountant, i have to get him to sign a letter for sw that he refused to work the extra days, he is not allowed under sw rules to claim after refusing work:cool: he will be in tomorrow so i will guage his reaction when i say that to him... would be a bit messy to have 2 different people in different days , but its getting very stressful on me to get back in the house for 8.30 with scrapers, milking etc to be done b4 that

Easy does it Whelan :eek:, you dont want this to show your the bad person in this. as an employer and an employee in my on right, there is always somewhere in employment law that all the T are not crossed an te i dotted, even as best you try.

just do it

whelan1 wrote: »

just rang accountant, i have to get him to sign a letter for sw that he refused to work the extra days, he is not allowed under sw rules to claim after refusing work:cool: he will be in tomorrow so i will guage his reaction when i say that to him... would be a bit messy to have 2 different people in different days , but its getting very stressful on me to get back in the house for 8.30 with scrapers, milking etc to be done b4 that

Just make sure you're prepared if he walks off the farm there and then;-)

corkcomp

just do it wrote: »

Just make sure you're prepared if he walks off the farm there and then;-)

+1. im not saying its right that he only wants to work 3 days a week for the purpose of signing on the other days, but it's still his decision at the end of the day. maybe he's thinking what happens at the end of January? more 3 day weeks and paperwork to sign on again. TBH casual labour jobs are not that scarce on farms at present so I dont blame people for moving on if their existing employer gives them crap.

whelan1

corkcomp wrote: »

+1. im not saying its right that he only wants to work 3 days a week for the purpose of signing on the other days, but it's still his decision at the end of the day. maybe he's thinking what happens at the end of January? more 3 day weeks and paperwork to sign on again. TBH casual labour jobs are not that scarce on farms at present so I dont blame people for moving on if their existing employer gives them crap.

so what if the employee is giving crap? i need some one to work full time at this moment , he has declined the offer ... doesnt make sense to me to pay 2 different people

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

so what if the employee is giving crap? i need some one to work full time at this moment , he has declined the offer ... doesnt make sense to me to pay 2 different people

if the employee is giving crap then get rid of him, IF you are sure you can find someone else asap, otherwise you end up with no labour at all rather than two days short. I think the problem a lot of the time is changing requirements due to the time of year etc.. e.g. if you hire someone fulltime now and tell them they will be on a three day week in six weeks time it might make it harder to find someone.

rs8

id get rid of him, if you are a fair employer and hes giving you crap in a resession he doesnt tink too much of his job!

Red Sheds

bob charles wrote: »

Anyway at what point does one have to pay PRSI for a casual worker. If im talking about hiring a guy for say a week here and there or a few days a week etc. Is there a threshold that I have to go over before I have to pay PRSI. I have no problem with the full time PRSI stuff but Im not up to speed when employing seasonal labour. I know from a insurance point of view everything is okay but I just want to keep everything above board

As far as I know you have to register all employees and deduct and pay PRSI and PAYE if applicaple even if they only work a week here and there. There is a limit of something like anyone earning mroe than €10 per week has to be treated under the PAYE system. Its a crazy small limited, but thats it if you want to be legal. I agree with you about all the good people being gone or working, myself last year couldnt get people either at €80 per day, had to wait and get some good guys who were busy at the time, lucky my work could wait.

I dont have any time for people on dole and wanting cash and working when it suits them, we have a small business and our way is, its done on our terms, when we want it done and nobody gets cash, its all above board, if people dont want that so be it.

bob charles

Donegal09 wrote: »

If you look hard enough theres plenty of students and young lads out there looking for work and they dont mind pulling up their sleeves and lifting a grape

My problem is that everyone wants cash and not to be paid through the books, Its becoming a joke as I think there a serious amount of frauds out there claiming dole and working aswell

Corkfarmer

I agree theres loads of fellas that are signing and working coming out better than fellas who are paying tax. I'm in college myself but work the weekends in local co-op and I've worked with a few farmers milking and things on the books throughout the year. Its frustrating seeing fellas who sit at home all week come out with more than you at the end of it. The busiest man in our village is on disability but milks a 100 cows morning and evening and is booked up doing jobs for other farmers the rest of the week.

Username John

Corkfarmer wrote: »

I agree theres loads of fellas that are signing and working coming out better than fellas who are paying tax. I'm in college myself but work the weekends in local co-op and I've worked with a few farmers milking and things on the books throughout the year. Its frustrating seeing fellas who sit at home all week come out with more than you at the end of it. The busiest man in our village is on disability but milks a 100 cows morning and evening and is booked up doing jobs for other farmers the rest of the week.

:mad:

Report it.
I see nothing wrong with reporting that & I dont see why people dont report more of it, if they see it going on...

corkcomp

I cant understand the whole cash thing tbh, it doesnt make sense as it comes out of your own pocket. Pay by bank xfer or cheque and ask for some sort of inv even something on a bit of paper and after that let them worry about their own tax. If the employer decides the days / hours the labour is classed as an employee but normally it doesnt work like that in case where you get someone to a specific job like plough 100 acres or empty the slurry tanks etc.

User Friendly

Username John wrote: »

:mad:

Report it.
I see nothing wrong with reporting that & I dont see why people dont report more of it, if they see it going on...

maybe because people dont want to be known as a grass.

Username John

User Friendly wrote: »

maybe because people dont want to be known as a grass.

Hmmm, so its better to stand by and watch them?

These people are taking money which you as a tax payer are essentially giving them...

6600

You're fully in the right there Whelan1. You could always report him if his attitude is getting to you. You can even do it anonymously here;

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

Brendan Howlin just announced that the Social Welfare week is going from 6 days to 5 days which might stop a lot of the lads who work 3 days and sign on for another 3. It's becoming a bit of a joke at this stage.

weefarmer

6600 wrote: »

You're fully in the right there Whelan1. You could always report him if his attitude is getting to you. You can even do it anonymously here;

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

Brendan Howlin just announced that the Social Welfare week is going from 6 days to 5 days which might stop a lot of the lads who work 3 days and sign on for another 3. It's becoming a bit of a joke at this stage.

Will this not make it easier for the scammers, they can claim mo.day-friday and maybe work saturday and sunday?
Ive heard of people working sundays and still claiming for the rest of the week, even if they worked a friday, they'd still say they worked sunday so as to get the money!

bob charles

6600 wrote: »

You can even do it anonymously here;

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

Didnt think it was that easy, Some strange headings in those few paragraphs.

claiming benefit for a person who is prison, please tell us the name, age and address of the person in prison, when they entered prison, if known. Please also tell us the name and address of the person who is collecting the payment.

Do authority not have the where with all to realise who is in the clik. Would a prisoner not have to give his PPS no when in the slammer. Seems crazy that the system couldnt pick up such a infringement

djmc

Does anyone use farm relief services in busy times
Just thinking with no employers insurance prsi tax holiday pay or redundant payments would one be better off.
I could do with help at calving time in spring and summer but can manage in autumn and winter

whelan1

bob charles wrote: »

Didnt think it was that easy, Some strange headings in those few paragraphs.

claiming benefit for a person who is prison, please tell us the name, age and address of the person in prison, when they entered prison, if known. Please also tell us the name and address of the person who is collecting the payment.

Do authority not have the where with all to realise who is in the clik. Would a prisoner not have to give his PPS no when in the slammer. Seems crazy that the system couldnt pick up such a infringement

the whole sw system is a total joke .... we are all being screwed, seriously there needs to be something done about it, my da had a house rented out to people who where in receipt of rent allowance - my da never saw the money, can not understand why the money was paid in to the tenants account, would it not make sense to pay it to the landlord direct... we all know people who are screwing the system :mad: yet these people can afford foreign holiday flash cars etc when they dont work for a living

saltandpepper10

whelan1 wrote: »

the whole sw system is a total joke .... we are all being screwed, seriously there needs to be something done about it, my da had a house rented out to people who where in receipt of rent allowance - my da never saw the money, can not understand why the money was paid in to the tenants account, would it not make sense to pay it to the landlord direct... we all know people who are screwing the system :mad: yet these people can afford foreign holiday flash cars etc when they dont work for a living

just out of interest mrs whealan how much do you get in your SFP,I would wager its way more than 188 a week no such luck for a casual labourer please dont begrude working farm people a few quid if they are not born on a farm or marry into one

whelan1

excuse me there are many weeks that i have survived on alot less than 188/week , i am not entitled to dole etc , have 3 kids and alot of debt , i pay my workers fairly and legally, just wish others would do the same

corkcomp

On the whole topic of reporting people, personally I wouldnt do it.. let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that:D How many of us are 100% honest if you think about it? it might be something as small as buying diesel for personal use through the books .. I wont give any other examples:p

Tipp Man

corkcomp wrote: »

On the whole topic of reporting people, personally I wouldnt do it.. let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that:D How many of us are 100% honest if you think about it? it might be something as small as buying diesel for personal use through the books .. I wont give any other examples:p

That's pretty sad really

No wonder we have such bad goverence and tolerate it and no wonder why crooks and criminals prosper in this country

plasteritup

all this chatting at this time of the morning lads,GO ON OUT AND MILK THE COWS,no wonder theres nothing being done on the farms!!!:D:D:D

whelan1

corkcomp wrote: »

On the whole topic of reporting people, personally I wouldnt do it.. let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that:D How many of us are 100% honest if you think about it? it might be something as small as buying diesel for personal use through the books .. I wont give any other examples:p[/QUOTE
What about mary down the road, claiming one parent family allowance, madical card, rent allowance, living with partner who claims dole, she also minds other peoples kids and he does "nixers", is also able to claim back to school allowance etc.... how can anyone turn around and think thats ok

corkcomp

Tipp Man wrote: »

That's pretty sad really

No wonder we have such bad goverence and tolerate it and no wonder why crooks and criminals prosper in this country

Thats just the way it is unfortunately. I prefer to devote my time & energy to my own work and business rather than worry about what anyone else is doing or how much they are getting from benefits.

@Whelan1, I certainly dont think that is "OK" but I choose to ignore it, thats all.

whelan1

corkcomp wrote: »

Thats just the way it is unfortunately. I prefer to devote my time & energy to my own work and business rather than worry about what anyone else is doing or how much they are getting from benefits.

but your taxes are paying their benefits, i would prefer to be putting money in to education, healthcare rather than the lazy git down the road

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

but your taxes are paying their benefits, i would prefer to be putting money in to education, healthcare rather than the lazy git down the road

your dead right, but the sad situation is there is feck all that can be done about that in the short term so it's only an additional stress to be worrying about it (IMO) Benefit fraudsters have been around for years and its only rarely we ever hear of anyone getting caught:rolleyes:

whelan1

corkcomp wrote: »

your dead right, but the sad situation is there is feck all that can be done about that in the short term so it's only an additional stress to be worrying about it (IMO) Benefit fraudsters have been around for years and its only rarely we ever hear of anyone getting caught:rolleyes:

so report them... why should we be lining their pocket, its pure greed on their part they dont care where the money comes from as long as its in their account each week

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

so report them... why should we be lining their pocket, its pure greed on their part they dont care where the money comes from as long as its in their account each week

if it was as simple as that there wouldnt be any welfare fraudsters left in the country. I know someone who works in tax office and their phone's have been hopping for years with people reporting neighbours for running secret B&B's and people working while on the dole and the same people are still offending .. so ...... I just think that in a small community reporting people isnt worth the hassle unless you are 100% squeeky clean and compliant in all matters yourself.. personally id rather not be watching my back.

locky76

The main problem Bob is that all the various government IT systems don't talk to each other, that's why they were leaning towards a flat cut of €10 on all children's allowance rather that means testing it etc. etc.

bob charles wrote: »

Didnt think it was that easy, Some strange headings in those few paragraphs.

claiming benefit for a person who is prison, please tell us the name, age and address of the person in prison, when they entered prison, if known. Please also tell us the name and address of the person who is collecting the payment.

Do authority not have the where with all to realise who is in the clik. Would a prisoner not have to give his PPS no when in the slammer. Seems crazy that the system couldnt pick up such a infringement

locky76

whelan1 wrote: »

the whole sw system is a total joke .... we are all being screwed, seriously there needs to be something done about it, my da had a house rented out to people who where in receipt of rent allowance - my da never saw the money, can not understand why the money was paid in to the tenants account, would it not make sense to pay it to the landlord direct... we all know people who are screwing the system :mad: yet these people can afford foreign holiday flash cars etc when they dont work for a living

The flip side of that whelan1 is that there are a lot of landlords being caught at the moment who havn't declared rental income but are getting paid by people on rent allowance...

whelan1

locky76 wrote: »

The flip side of that whelan1 is that there are a lot of landlords being caught at the moment who havn't declared rental income but are getting paid by people on rent allowance...

believe you me we are not one of them... also heard of another woman who was supposed to be getting rent allowance of her tenants, they used the rent allowance to go on a 2 week holiday so she never got the money off them

Username John

corkcomp wrote: »

Thats just the way it is unfortunately. I prefer to devote my time & energy to my own work and business rather than worry about what anyone else is doing or how much they are getting from benefits.

@Whelan1, I certainly dont think that is "OK" but I choose to ignore it, thats all.

You're dead right to devote time on yer own business, and its not good to go searching for it - but not sure re ignoring it is good thogh.

I guess its all down to an individuals moral compass. But where do you draw the line?

What 'level' of crime has to take place before you think most people would report it? Or is all "victim-less" crime acceptable?

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

believe you me we are not one of them... also heard of another woman who was supposed to be getting rent allowance of her tenants, they used the rent allowance to go on a 2 week holiday so she never got the money off them

We've dealt with three different sets of tenants on rent allowance over last four or five years and to be fair you need to ignore the rent allowance when writing the lease.. its X ammount paid on X day of each week / month, end of story, if the tenant spends the RA on something else thats fine once they money arrives in my account from some other means, if not they're out...

whelan1

Username John wrote: »

You're dead right to devote time on yer own business, and its not good to go searching for it - but not sure re ignoring it is good thogh.

I guess its all down to an individuals moral compass. But where do you draw the line?

What 'level' of crime has to take place before you think most people would report it? Or is all "victim-less" crime acceptable?

sw fraud is not a victimless crime, my nephew is 4 has special needs , you have to beg for everything, my sister has ms , everything is a hard slog to get anything she is entitled too, yet these people dont see it that way, they are lining their pockets while people like my nephew and my sister suffer

User Friendly

corkcomp wrote: »

On the whole topic of reporting people, personally I wouldnt do it.. let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that:D How many of us are 100% honest if you think about it? it might be something as small as buying diesel for personal use through the books .. I wont give any other examples:p

corkcomp wrote: »

Thats just the way it is unfortunately. I prefer to devote my time & energy to my own work and business rather than worry about what anyone else is doing or how much they are getting from benefits.

@Whelan1, I certainly dont think that is "OK" but I choose to ignore it, thats all.

i could not have put it better! well said.

Username John

User Friendly wrote: »

i could not have put it better! well said.

I agree with CorkComp re not worrying what everyone else is doing - looking too much at your neighbours will only make you bitter in the long run.

As for "let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone" - I dont agree with. That arguement could be used to not report a very serious crime, because you broke the speeding limit in the town in 1986... :eek:

I guess it us up to the individual, and we all make our decessions as to where the lines are.
I would have no issue reporting someone who is working permanently, and claiming social welfare.
But reporting someone who I know just picked up one or two days work, whilst claiming... doesnt seem right... But - the crime is the same... :eek:

s14driftking

tbf im in receite of social welfare at the min on a vtos course and if im perfectly honestly i probably would not have excepted your offer either whelan1 for a few reasons
1. u say its a few weeks work i sign off for them few weeks and work for u and earn a few bob extra for a few weeks your work finished up then and ive to go sign on again hence leaving me for 5 to 6 weeks without social welfare and no income
2. most people if full time work came available would be better off not accepting it and doing part time as one they get to keep the medical card a godsend atm with the prices of doctors medicines etc
two they get to keep rent allowance etc


in my position atm i would not enter back into full time work atm unless i was getting 400 into my hand after taxes and work was within 15miles of my home as any less its just not worth it

BeeDI

s14driftking wrote: »

tbf im in receite of social welfare at the min on a vtos course and if im perfectly honestly i probably would not have excepted your offer either whelan1 for a few reasons
1. u say its a few weeks work i sign off for them few weeks and work for u and earn a few bob extra for a few weeks your work finished up then and ive to go sign on again hence leaving me for 5 to 6 weeks without social welfare and no income
2. most people if full time work came available would be better off not accepting it and doing part time as one they get to keep the medical card a godsend atm with the prices of doctors medicines etc
two they get to keep rent allowance etc


in my position atm i would not enter back into full time work atm unless i was getting 400 into my hand after taxes and work was within 15miles of my home as any less its just not worth it

Enough said. Pity Joan Burton, Baldy Noonan, and Brendan Howling, wouldn't read this post, and then deal with this type of situation. This is exactly the sh1t, that has to be rooted out.

whelan1

BeeDI wrote: »

Enough said. Pity Joan Burton, Baldy Noonan, and Brendan Howling, wouldn't read this post, and then deal with this type of situation. This is exactly the sh1t, that has to be rooted out.

he is getting more than €400 a week fulltime.... has no qualifications . On a side note brought one of the kids to the doctor today €45 for doctor and €80 in chemist after:mad:

corkcomp

whelan1 wrote: »

he is getting more than €400 a week fulltime.... has no qualifications . On a side note brought one of the kids to the doctor today €45 for doctor and €80 in chemist after:mad:

jeez the chemist was saucy! my doctor charges €60 though, I was about 5 the last time a doctor charged €45 for a visit round here:mad:

dar31

s14driftking wrote: »

in my position atm i would not enter back into full time work atm unless i was getting 400 into my hand after taxes and work was within 15miles of my home as any less its just not worth it

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

id just love to make a copy of this and send it off with my tax returns.

and

a little note saying,
" like f**k am i paying tax any more, when a lad like this can sit at home laughing at those that try to do a bit of work rather than being a burden on society"

rightly pi***d

whelan1

corkcomp wrote: »

jeez the chemist was saucy! my doctor charges €60 though, I was about 5 the last time a doctor charged €45 for a visit round here:mad:

about 5 years ago i brought 2 of the kids to a doctor in a different town, was charged €75 in the doctors and €90 in the chemist , i near died, kids medical care should be free in this country, have 1 kid that needs regular medical care but i dont qualify for a medical card unlike some more fortunate posters on this thread

s14driftking

BeeDI wrote: »

Enough said. Pity Joan Burton, Baldy Noonan, and Brendan Howling, wouldn't read this post, and then deal with this type of situation. This is exactly the sh1t, that has to be rooted out.

the problem is the cost of living needs to come down in this country today we have more taxes put on petrol cigarettes household tax vat etc. contunueing to rape people for what few pound is in there will not help and generate more spending

whelan1 wrote: »

he is getting more than €400 a week fulltime.... has no qualifications . On a side note brought one of the kids to the doctor today €45 for doctor and €80 in chemist after:mad:

more than 400 for a few weeks at the end of the time with u full time he,ll be back parttime or no work at all and could take upwards of 6 weeks to get his social welfare back that is what a lot of peoples biggest fear is

dar31 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

id just love to make a copy of this and send it off with my tax returns.

and

a little note saying,
" like f**k am i paying tax any more, when a lad like this can sit at home laughing at those that try to do a bit of work rather than being a burden on society"

rightly pi***d

your hinting that i am not working im in college trying to better my education atm doing a life skills course this year hoping to do my leaving cert next yr and then the following year start agri college or something, if u have a grunge against people claiming social on your taxes u should aim it at the people who never worked a day in there lives. i was 30 in october and never out of work from the age of 17 till 29 and jobs became impossible to get

just do it

s14driftking wrote: »

the problem is the cost of living needs to come down in this country today we have more taxes put on petrol cigarettes household tax vat etc. contunueing to rape people for what few pound is in there will not help and generate more spending

more than 400 for a few weeks at the end of the time with u full time he,ll be back parttime or no work at all and could take upwards of 6 weeks to get his social welfare back that is what a lot of peoples biggest fear is

your hinting that i am not working im in college trying to better my education atm doing a life skills course this year hoping to do my leaving cert next yr and then the following year start agri college or something, if u have a grunge against people claiming social on your taxes u should aim it at the people who never worked a day in there lives. i was 30 in october and never out of work from the age of 17 till 29 and jobs became impossible to get

Do they teach grammar, capitalisation and punctuation in your college atm?;)

redzerologhlen

just do it wrote: »

Do they teach grammar, capitalisation and punctuation in your college atm?;)

Ah give the lad a break will ya. He told us his situation and hes getting attacked for it now, At least he was honest. I wouldnt blame him to be honest for the sake of a few weeks work to have no money coming in for another 5 or 6 weeks. Its all well and good to be talking but how many people posting here have had to survive on €0 for that long. Dont judge until you are in the same shoes is all im saying. A full time job would be different but that's often not the situation and compatible with farming. There are a lot of people in this country who never worked and never have an intention of working and in the boom had several pps numbers and were drawing 1000 euro a year and more and nobody said a thing or cared and they were let get away with it. Now that times are tight though anyone on the dole is looked at like they are the scum of the earth. What would anyone else here do if they hadnt been fortunate enough to inherit a farm and had lost their job and had no money to look after their family???? A blind eye was turned to the fraudsters in the good years and I would say the situation isint any worse now as the work just is not there for the most of them if you think about it. People are a lot more reluctant to pay cash because the tax man will be hunting you down. There was no shortage of it 5 years ago though:rolleyes: