Mod ignoring forum charter on Waterford forum

dayshah

This thread has gotten way out of hand in terms of speculation of dole fraud against a specific group. I think the thread should be cleaned up and closed.

Fueling speculation is specifically against the Waterford Forum charter, and a mod is continually fueling speculation that these people (many of whom are employed) are dole cheats.

Really this is totally out of line. If unfounded allegations of fiddling expenses were made against a TD thread would have been closed long ago.

-Corkie-

I take it you reported the posts in question or sent a pm to the mod in question..

Cabaal

I'm guessing you allowed no more then 10min after reporting the post to post this thread, if you even did report it?

tbh dayshah, it seems suggestions of wrongdoing are perfectly fine for anybody in the government or any previous partys (take FF) but when Sully and others suggest anybody that is part of the occupy movement is doing something wrong (no names being mentioned) you want it stopped.

It seems you want a case of selective modding.

Also, surely you are on boards.ie long enough to know that starting a feedback thread about an mod isn't the way to go.

If unfounded allegations of fiddling expenses were made against a TD thread would have been closed long ago.

Finally your example is a suggestion made against a TD, a TD of course would be a individual so it would mean a name would be clearly mentioned,

In this case Sully never named any names and instead referenced the Occupy Movement.

So bottom line saying there may be people fiddling the system in the occupy movement is no different to saying people in FG may be fiddling the system, or there may be trades men that work cash in hand and don't pay tax.

Sure Sully can't prove it, but you can't disprove it, he's not referencing a individual, its not a company so it won't have an affect on share price or employees and statistically he is likely right.

He's referencing a large group of very mixed people that include such foolish people as freemans who appear to think the Irish legal system, paying debts to banks, paying parking tickets etc doesn't apply to them.

So this makes his claim even more likely that there may be people not actually actively job seeking.

dayshah

-Corkie- wrote: »

I take it you reported the posts in question or sent a pm to the mod in question..

Of course I reported it. The mod said in certain circumstances speculation is prohibited.

Obviously he doesn't consider social welfare fraud to be a serious enough allegation to at least require some evidence.

dayshah

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm guessing you allowed no more then 10min after reporting the post to post this thread, if you even did report it?

Yes, and I received an unsatisfactory response. I think the moderating of the thread has been appalling.

Cabaal wrote: »

tbh dayshah, it seems suggestions of wrongdoing are perfectly fine for anybody in the government or any previous partys (take FF) but when Sully and others suggest anybody that is part of the occupy movement is doing something wrong (no names being mentioned) you want it stopped.

It seems you want a case of selective modding.

...



Finally your example is a suggestion made against a TD, a TD of course would be a individual so it would mean a name would be clearly mentioned,

In this case Sully never named any names and instead referenced the Occupy Movement.

What has that got to do with the issue at hand? I'm not objecting to the Ciara Conway thread being closed. It was right for the thread to be closed. I don't police the Waterford forum. If you've a problem with a thread then report it. You have no way of knowing what other posts I have reported. I'm unhappy with this thread because I feel a mod is abusing their position to continue a libel against people.

Whether a group or an individual is being libelled is irrelevant.

Cabaal wrote: »

So bottom line saying there may be people fiddling the system in the occupy movement is no different to saying people in FG may be fiddling the system, or there may be trades men that work cash in hand and don't pay tax.

Sure Sully can't prove it, but you can't disprove it, he's not referencing a individual, its not a company so it won't have an affect on share price or employees and statistically he is likely right.

Put in context of the previous posts Sully is suggesting that at least the majority of campers are committing dole fraud. He has ridiculed the idea that people might be looking in the papers for a job, and ignored that some of the campers are working, and just camp out now and then.

Can anyone prove or disprove the FG TDs are fiddling the expenses? No they can't. But if someone started a thread about FG it would be ridiculous for people to start saying FG aren't doing enough to prevent people cheating the system, that they are just sitting in the dáil, so obviously can't be working hard to prevent expenses fraud, that most of them must be at it because I once saw a TD with a receipt after getting a haircut....

That sort of drivel should be stopped, and it should be stopped on the Occupy thread too. I've no problem with people being against the Occupy crowds tactics, aims, etc., but how about play the ball and not the men.

The Ciara Conway thread was moderated appropriately, the Occupy thread hasn't.

Cabaal

dayshah wrote: »

Fueling speculation is specifically against the Waterford Forum charter,

It certainly is but since when is the Occupy Movement a business?

Fuel speculation. If you heard a rumour from a source about any business, please do not post it until confirmed by a reliable media source. This is due to past topics which angered a lot of people, including the company under speculation, as what was reported was inaccurate and false.

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see anything specifically in the Waterford charter that you are referring to.

dayshah

Cabaal wrote: »

Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see anything specifically in the Waterford charter that you are referring to.

Charter wrote: »

Please don't:

• Make a comment without being able to back it up.
• If you feel the need to go insulting the travelling community in Waterford, certain areas of Waterford, or certain people in Waterford (Add your own minorities to this list), whether it be using derogatory terms, insults, slurs, or the like, please expect a swift banning from the forum. We will notify you when your ban is to be up. (See "Note 2" for clarification)
• Name individual people. We've had trouble with this recently, and considering the trouble it can cause for boards.ie and the moderators, it's not allowed on the forum. This falls under the boards.ie general rules of No Libellous comments, but we're adding it to the charter as people seem to forget it. Infractions and/or bans will be handed out if it happens in future.

The first point is the most obvious.

Sully

Two things.

Firstly, I was away most of today and got no PM from the above user. Two reports came in an hour after each other, I have no intention of dealing with them seeing as I am a poster in said thread and the above user has an issue with my views. Clearly, I cant moderate it! So I assumed the other mods of the forum would look into it -- I have no PMs from you or anybody about this, so I am unsure if someone spoke with you or not (you said you got an unsatisfactory response).

Secondly, that "speculation" and "libelous" charter point are aimed at specific issues. General speculation is always fine, otherwise Boards would be very quiet. Specific speculation can be very damaging, but I cant see how it would apply in this case. Nobody was named and tbh I don't think there was ever any direct post specifically saying they were all X, Y or Z (From what I recall) so I fail to see how anybody was libeled.

Other than that, dayshah is very very defensive of the Occupy Waterford Moment and is never happy when someone goes against his/her views. Its a friendly, civilized debate which I feel is trying to be hampered by requests of such nature, which is over-moderation and moderating in an anal fashion.

Anyway, that's my take but I have no idea the views of the other mods on this in the forum.

Morag

dayshah wrote: »

Yes, and I received an unsatisfactory response. I think the moderating of the thread has been appalling.

Then you are meant to pm the cmods about it.

ziedth

Personally, I have stayed clear of that thread as a user due to what I see is two camps (pro & against) basically taking a hard line and it didn't make for entertaining reading.

Any reported posts that came in regarding the occupy movement I didn't see a problem with in terms of breaking the charter and just because Dayshah doesn't like that some people view them as Dole Scroungers really isn't a reason to take action. IMHO you only have to look at the abuse the likes of the Catholic Church for example gets in various threads around the site. I have seen much worse used then "Dole Cheat" and that is deemed rightly within the rules.

In the interest of fairness I'll give the thread a full read tomorrow with an open mind and I see anything that I deem breaks the rules I'll raise it with the other MODS/Take action.

dayshah

Sully wrote: »

Secondly, that "speculation" and "libelous" charter point are aimed at specific issues. General speculation is always fine, otherwise Boards would be very quiet. Specific speculation can be very damaging, but I cant see how it would apply in this case. Nobody was named and tbh I don't think there was ever any direct post specifically saying they were all X, Y or Z (From what I recall) so I fail to see how anybody was libeled.

Other than that, dayshah is very very defensive of the Occupy Waterford Moment and is never happy when someone goes against his/her views. Its a friendly, civilized debate which I feel is trying to be hampered by requests of such nature, which is over-moderation and moderating in an anal fashion.

That is both irrelevant and untrue. A number of my posts were critical of in the Occupy Movement. A read through the thread will show that.

I'm specfically against posts that insinuate that the protestors are committing dole fraud, a serious crime. Though people haven't been named, Waterford is a small place, so anyone can see the people sitting down at the camp, and there are pictures of these people up on the internet. If a thread degenerated into baseless claims that expenses fraud is prevalent amongst FG TDs I think that should be closed too.

Some of the debate is civilised. There is plenty to spoken of, such as if the protesters achieve anything, whether the camp is an eyesore, whether their objectives are sensible. There is no need to descend into childish name calling labelling people dole cheats, with no proof.

dayshah

ziedth wrote: »

Any reported posts that came in regarding the occupy movement I didn't see a problem with in terms of breaking the charter and just because Dayshah doesn't like that some people view them as Dole Scroungers really isn't a reason to take action. IMHO you only have to look at the abuse the likes of the Catholic Church for example gets in various threads around the site. I have seen much worse used then "Dole Cheat" and that is deemed rightly within the rules.

If there was a thread about Travellers, and people were referring casually to them as dole scroungers, then I think a note would have been put on the thread saying to stay on topic.

I don't think childish abuse should be allowed on a thread, just because a group is unpopular. I haven't read what was said about the Catholic Church (but I could take a guess), but dole fraud is theft, and labelling a group of protesters as thieves, and offering no evidence, is way out of line.

I'm not someone who goes about complaining about threads just because people disagree with me, and on this thread I specifically against unfounded allegations of a crime, I'm not against people criticising the Occupy movement (which I have done myself in a number of posts).

Black Swan

ziedth wrote: »

In the interest of fairness I'll give the thread a full read tomorrow with an open mind and I see anything that I deem breaks the rules I'll raise it with the other MODS/Take action.

Agree. These issues are best resolved at the local level, where posters and mods are members of the community, and most familiar with the needs of the forum.

Sharrow wrote: »

Then you are meant to pm the cmods about it.

I have not been PM'd. I feel confident that our mods will act in the best interests of our Waterford City community of posters. Should this issue not be resolved at the forum level, both Mr Magnolia and I are available to review this Occupy Waterford thread.

LoLth

Well, the cmods are aware of this now so I'll close this thread as its more a report than feedback.

LoLth