Euro 2012 fixed draw

steelcityblues

Watching it yesterday, and it was funny to see Poland draw probably the weakest team from every pot in their group. No major power like Italy, France or Germany came out of the draw, in group A.

After Austria and Switzerland looking out of their depth four years ago, would anyone agree that it looked a bit too obvious- and that UEFA really want a co-host to be in the knockout stages?

There seemed to be ironic laughs from a few delegates, yesterday.

MrJoeSoap

steelcityblues wrote: »

Watching it yesterday, and it was funny to see Poland draw probably the weakest team from every pot in their group. No major power like Italy, France or Germany came out of the draw, in group A.

After Austria and Switzerland looking out of their depth four years ago, would anyone agree that it looked a bit too obvious- and that UEFA really want a co-host to be in the knockout stages?

There seemed to be ironic laughs from a few delegates, yesterday.

Why would it be fixed in Poland's favour though?

steelcityblues

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Why would it be fixed in Poland's favour though?

More from a PR standpoint - UEFA would not want the world to think that either Poland or Ukraine were dreadful,and had little business being there.

Also, the home fans may not help to sell out neutral matches, so the longer they are involved the better.

CiaranMT

Who else could they have been conceivably drawn with?

steelcityblues

CiaranMT wrote: »

Who else could they have been conceivably drawn with?

I have already mentioned several of them. :rolleyes:

MrJoeSoap

CiaranMT wrote: »

Who else could they have been conceivably drawn with?

One team from each of the below pots of four. I think the OP is looking a bit too hard for something here and making things fit.

Germany
Italy
England
Russia

Croatia
Greece
Portugal
Sweden

Denmark
France
Czech Republic
Republic of Ireland

Jeboa Safari

You'd imagine they'd have drawn the Ukraine with Ireland instead of France though.

CiaranMT

steelcityblues wrote: »

I have already mentioned several of them. :rolleyes:

Lad, all I wanted was what MrJoeSoap posted, no need to be so adversarial.

They could also have been drawn with Italy, Sweden and ourselves, which would have been an easier group, if anything.

No CT here.

If you want a good sport CT, head to munsterfans.com and search for Blanco and his rigging the HC draw year after year :P

steelcityblues

CiaranMT wrote: »

Lad, all I wanted was what MrJoeSoap posted, no need to be so adversarial.

They could also have been drawn with Italy, Sweden and ourselves, which would have been an easier group, if anything.

No CT here.

If you want a good sport CT, head to munsterfans.com and search for Blanco and his rigging the HC draw year after year :P

4 times World Cup winners Italy are weaker than Russia? Seriously?

I think we are the better than the Czechs too - they were very lucky against Scotland, and lost to Lithuania at home. No one is talking of them as potential winners - at least outside of their own country. Fortunate to draw Montenegro in the playoffs.

You may have a point with Greece over Sweden, but no major difference.

CiaranMT

I was including us in that hypothetical group. Was giving you an alternative make-up to show how another draw may also have gone favourably for the Poles.

No, Italy aren't weaker, but neither are Russia weak. I'd put money on them reaching the semi's (if I could spare a bob )

Also, RE delegates laughing, John Delaney anyone?

refusetolose

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

You'd imagine they'd have drawn the Ukraine with Ireland instead of France though.

poland could not have drawn ukraine

ArmaniJeanss

steelcityblues wrote: »

More from a PR standpoint - UEFA would not want the world to think that either Poland or Ukraine were dreadful,and had little business being there.

Also, the home fans may not help to sell out neutral matches, so the longer they are involved the better.

C'mon, Poland and Ukraine are not dreadful. They reasonably regularly qualify for these competitions anyway, though they tend to be a group phase team only.
Austria and Switzerland looking 'out of their depth' (which is arguable) hardly took away from the last competition.

Sold out grounds look pretty on TV but 5000 empty seats at €50 a pop (€250K, double it for ancilliary spend to €500K) hardly matters in the greater scheme of things. The big bucks, the mega fcuking bucks, are TV rights and sponsorship (exclusive beer of Euro2012 etc) and are all paid-up regardless of who progresses to the second round, semis, final.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that the group (of death) of Holland, Germany, Denmark and Portugal is proof that the draw wasn't fixed.
Holland, Germany - two of the top 3 teams in the world, with fans who travel in their 10s of thousands and who spend massively. Denmark, no great shakes but again a huge travelling cash rich fanbase. Portugal, possessing in CR7 the most marketable European footballer of them all - the sponsors who paid 10s of millions to be associated with this comp would love to see Portugal go far.
Yet two of these teams will exit in the group stage.

tldr : Luck of the draw.

Jeboa Safari

refusetolose wrote: »

poland could not have drawn ukraine

I know, but you'd imagine they'd have drawn them against Ireland instead of France if they're giving the hosts an easy draw

hooradiation

CiaranMT wrote: »

I was including us in that hypothetical group. Was giving you an alternative make-up to show how another draw may also have gone favourably for the Poles.

No, Italy aren't weaker, but neither are Russia weak. I'd put money on them reaching the semi's (if I could spare a bob )

Also, RE delegates laughing, John Delaney anyone?

Laughing for any reason, ever, is the ultimate sign of guilt. As everyone knows.

User Friendly

steelcityblues wrote: »

Watching it yesterday, and it was funny to see Poland draw probably the weakest team from every pot in their group. No major power like Italy, France or Germany came out of the draw, in group A.

After Austria and Switzerland looking out of their depth four years ago, would anyone agree that it looked a bit too obvious- and that UEFA really want a co-host to be in the knockout stages?

There seemed to be ironic laughs from a few delegates, yesterday.

so you think Itay and france are "major powers"? they are utter ****e imo

CiaranMT

hooradiation wrote: »

Laughing for any reason, ever, is the ultimate sign of guilt. As everyone knows.

LOL


>_>

<_<

steelcityblues

User Friendly wrote: »

so you think Itay and france are "major powers"? they are utter ****e imo

Italy - 4 World Cups and a Euro C'ship

France - World Cup and 2 Euro C'ships

Does not sound like powerhouses to me. :rolleyes:

Yes, both teams had terrible World Cups, but both have recovered well since.

With new managers and many new players since 2010, Italy/France won't disgrace themselves this time around.

CiaranMT

Regardless, your line of reasoning has been shown to be poor.

steelcityblues

CiaranMT wrote: »

Regardless, your line of reasoning has been shown to be poor.

You are the guy who considered Russia to be on the same level as Italy, so that's funny.

CiaranMT

steelcityblues wrote: »

You are the guy who considered Russia to be on the same level as Italy, so that's funny.

I stand over that. Russia have a great young team.

You still reckon there's a fix to get the host nations as far as possible in this tournament?

steelcityblues

CiaranMT wrote: »

I stand over that. Russia have a great young team.

You still reckon there's a fix to get the host nations as far as possible in this tournament?

You don't see many Russian players in the elite leagues of Europe, though. Arshavin is probably the most recognisable, and he's become an average player for Arsenal.

I'm not saying they can't do well next summer, but that the pundits won't be rating them as highly as an Italy or France.

MrJoeSoap

steelcityblues wrote: »

Italy - 4 World Cups and a Euro C'ship

France - World Cup and 2 Euro C'ships

Does not sound like powerhouses to me. :rolleyes:

Yes, both teams had terrible World Cups, but both have recovered well since.

With new managers and many new players since 2010, Italy/France won't disgrace themselves this time around.

How have France recovered well? It took a late goal against Bosnia to even get them into the tournament, otherwise they were heading to they playoffs from arguably one of the weakest groups. They also lost to Belarus. Italy had a handy group.

steelcityblues wrote: »

You are the guy who considered Russia to be on the same level as Italy, so that's funny.

Well when you consider that we played Italy in qualifying for 2010 twice, and Russia in qualifying for this championship, and compare the two sets of matches... Russia gave us a far greater test. Should have beaten us in Russia, and beat us easily in Dublin. We should have beaten Italy in Dublin, and got a draw in Bari.

steelcityblues wrote: »

You don't see many Russian players in the elite leagues of Europe, though. Arshavin is probably the most recognisable, and he's become an average player for Arsenal.

That is a nonsense argument. You don't have to have players playing in the top leagues to be a good team. France had many recognisable players in the top leagues in WC2010 and Euro2008 and didn't get past the group stages. Italy also, and they didn't get past the groups in WC2010 or the Q-Finals in Euro2008. Russia got to the semi final of the last Euro's.

weisses

This thread is dragging down the CT forum :D

CiaranMT

steelcityblues wrote: »

You don't see many Russian players in the elite leagues of Europe, though. Arshavin is probably the most recognisable, and he's become an average player for Arsenal.

I'm not saying they can't do well next summer, but that the pundits won't be rating them as highly as an Italy or France.

Joe pointed out what's wrong with this, no need for me.

So, how's that conspiracy looking?

Brown Bomber

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

That is a nonsense argument. You don't have to have players playing in the top leagues to be a good team. France had many recognisable players in the top leagues in WC2010 and Euro2008 and didn't get past the group stages. Italy also, and they didn't get past the groups in WC2010 or the Q-Finals in Euro2008. Russia got to the semi final of the last Euro's.

It's not a nonsense argument. It stands to reason that the best players will be playing for the best teams in the best leagues. It's the cream rising to the top.

Btw you've been very selective in what you've chosen on Italy/France/Russia.

Russia haven't qualified for the last two world cups. France and Italy contested the final just 5 years ago. In what areas are Russian stronger than Italy?

phobia2011

I am personally delighted with the draw,

that is what it is all about, only shame is we didnt get england in the mix too,

cant wait.

"Ole, Ole Ole Ole.

MrJoeSoap

Brown Bomber wrote: »

It's not a nonsense argument. It stands to reason that the best players will be playing for the best teams in the best leagues. It's the cream rising to the top.

The best players may well play in the best leagues, but that doesn't mean that the best international team will be the one that has the most players playing in the big leagues, or the names that people will recognise. How many of the Greek players in 2004 were playing in the big leagues or were recognisable, household names?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Btw you've been very selective in what you've chosen on Italy/France/Russia. Russia haven't qualified for the last two world cups. France and Italy contested the final just 5 years ago.

Obviously you can put it both ways, and use certain stats or games to show that France or Italy are better than Russia, but that is the point that I'm making. There isn't that much between them.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In what areas are Russian stronger than Italy?

I'm not arguing that Russia are better than France or Italy, I'm arguing that it makes no sense to call France or Italy "major powers" when they are roughly on a par with Russia, hence why they were in the same pot. Russia are ranked higher than France in the FIFA Rankings, if you give any creedence to them.

And to draw it all back to the thread at hand, I can see no reason why UEFA would fix a draw to let Poland avoid France and Italy, yet get Russia.

WallabyPie

steelcityblues wrote: »

More from a PR standpoint - UEFA would not want the world to think that either Poland or Ukraine were dreadful,and had little business being there.

Also, the home fans may not help to sell out neutral matches, so the longer they are involved the better.

"More than 12 million requests have been made for UEFA EURO 2012 finals tickets between the window for applications opening on 1 March and closing yesterday, 31 March. (...)
Polish and Ukrainian citizens have shown huge interest in purchasing tickets, to such an extent that nearly 88% of the overall requests have originated from the co-host nations."
Source

ArmaniJeanss

UEFA reduce Wayne Rooneys 3 game ban to 2 games.

So Englands best player won't be available against France or Sweden, but can launch himself fit and fresh and rarin' to go in the last, and likely crunch, group D game against hosts Ukraine.

Another nail in the 'protect the hosts' conspiracy.

steelcityblues

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

UEFA reduce Wayne Rooneys 3 game ban to 2 games.

So Englands best player won't be available against France or Sweden, but can launch himself fit and fresh and rarin' to go in the last, and likely crunch, group D game against hosts Ukraine.

Another nail in the 'protect the hosts' conspiracy.

I never said there was anything fishy about Ukraine's draw - I was talking about Poland.

reprazant

steelcityblues wrote: »

I never said there was anything fishy about Ukraine's draw - I was talking about Poland.

So UEFA favour one host but not the other?

Well, that makes perfect sense.

User Friendly

reprazant wrote: »

So UEFA favour one host but not the other?

Well, that makes perfect sense.

:D:D