Wicklow 200 - 10 June 2012

Beasty

It's that time of year again ...

Online entry now available here - €42

The route will be as 2011 with possibly a couple of minor changes

- starting and finishing at the Shoreline Leisure Centre in Greystones

You'll all have plenty of time to complete it, as Ireland don't kick-off against Croatia until 20:45;)

Lusk Doyle

Hmmmmm.....a wet ww200 again or a trip to Italy for the msr298......what to do, what to do...

macken04

Going to do a few events next year, this was killer last year.

Inquitus

Its unlikely the Weather will ever be so bad again, it will be a doddle in the Sunshine!

ROK ON

If there is a worse organised cycling event in Ireland then I would like to see it.
Never again. Pure unadulterated sh1te.

smacl

ROK ON wrote: »

If there is a worse organised cycling event in Ireland then I would like to see it.
Never again. Pure unadulterated sh1te.

Agreed entirely. Crap sandwiches. Horrible weather. Didn't even get a fcuck'n medal after 11 hours on my manky hydrid. Signed up yesterday, kind of looking forward to it now....

manwithaplan

ROK ON wrote: »

If there is a worse organised cycling event in Ireland then I would like to see it.
Never again. Pure unadulterated sh1te.

A whole hour? We're slipping.

easygoing39

2011 was my 1st year to do the ww200,and my last,never ever again!!!I'd do 200 km on my own in WW that would be better organised.:mad:

macadam

Haven't done it yet, but going by reports its a pure sh1te event would be up for a boards event and all proceeds to some charity??????

Yup - save your money and do the Ring of Kerry cycle.

smacl

macadam wrote: »

Haven't done it yet, but going by reports its a pure sh1te event

I'd say do it at least once and make your own mind up, this year was a very tough one as the appalling weather really highlighted some organisational issues. IMHO, how enjoyable these events are come down as much to the comaradarie of the group, the scenery and even the weather, as the organisation. The WW200 is well marked, and covers a great route with a big number participating. I've only done it twice (100 last year, 200 this year), but it is let down by overcrowded stops leading to queues, and pretty awful food. The queuing for food and a hot cuppa was the major kick in the nuts this year, particularly as people were cold (as in hypothermia rather than just feeling a bit chilled). They had just two people per stop scanning cards and a linear system for getting tea and food. I'd say for the number of entrants (which was well down this year due to the weather), they want to be able process 5-10 people at a time which would probably include venues with more than one door as a requirement.

In terms of great food, constructive marshalling, and really looking after the cyclists well, the organisers could learn a lot from the Orwell Wheelers. As for getting a large crowd into and out of some shelter for food and respite, I don't honestly know what the best approach is, but changes are clearly required. Big sportives are obviously a whole different kettle of fish to smaller ones in this regard.

macadam wrote: »

would be up for a boards event and all proceeds to some charity??????

A boards all day sportive would be way cool, but it would be a different event, not a replacement. The WW200 will remain a date in my calender, if only as a stern motivator to get off my fat arse after Christmas and get some hills in. FWIW, I really enjoyed this year in a kind of masochistic, rather surreal way, though I wouldn't object to sun shine and just light breezes next year.

alexanderomahon

Had been planning for this, but now Poznan comes first. How far is it to cycle to Poznan? Now that would be a good boards sportive!!

Ryder

didnt do it last year..or the year before, but did it twice before that. Good event with good camaraderie. Not sure why they cant do chip timing....for irelands alleged premier event, some idea of your progress as compared to your peers would be welcome and serve as a motivator esp timing stations on the two big hills. They could then do away with the checkpoints and have a few cars along the road with extra food to take the pressure off the two main food stops.

If they dont want to do that....and I dont know WHY they wouldnt, why not do away with the checkpoints completely. If everyone gets the same medal regardless, who cares if someone cheats....their problem and then we wont have to wait an hour to get card stamped

Beasty

I did it in 2009 with absolutely no problems so far as the organisation was concerned. The key to beating the queues was getting off early.

I think criticisms of past events has been taken on board (I don't think the IVCA can take too much blame for the weather though) - next year for the firts time there's a three line whip, with all IVCA members being required to state whether they will mark the course, marshall the junctions, or act as "riding" marshalls when they sign-up for membership. Hence no-one will have any excuse for going the wrong way;)

elduggo

Beasty wrote: »

I did it in 2009 with absolutely no problems so far as the organisation was concerned. The key to beating the queues was getting off early.

exactly. I've done several and have never had to queue even once.

The organisation is fine. Especially when you think of all those folks at the stops giving up their time for free. The event is what you make of it yourself really.

My only criticism was the lack of a track pump at the stops. With the gravel on many stretches of road between Hollywood and Slieve Maan this year, the puncture count was higher than usual.

Lusk Doyle

I beat most of the lines of people last year and the food / drink at the stations was ok but my heart sank at the finish when I saw the food we were given. Very dissatisfied at that.

Leroy42

Are people really saying that the organisation is fine, once you head off before everyone else and stay ahead?

That is fine, if the organisation makes different starting groups and different prices. They don't.

€42 or 3 cups if tea a and few sandwiches. Don't think the course is that well marked or particularly well marshalled. Can't blame them for the weather, which does have a major bearing on any sportive.

Have done this event plenty of times, good and bad weather, and overall it just doesn't feel like a sportive. Almost feels like you pay €42 and then just head off on your own. Other events feel more like occasions

Beasty

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are people really saying that the organisation is fine, once you head off before everyone else and stay ahead?

I'm saying I had no bad experience of the organisation, unlike a number of others here. It's worth checking the specific event threads as there were a cross-section of experiences reported (although the weather certainly put a dampner on the 2011 event), and it's human nature for people who were not happy to make their feelings known about it here

Of course, with well over 2,000 entries, if you get several hundred turning up at a checkpoint within a short time there are bound to be queues. Getting ahead of the rush gets you to the front of the queues. In terms of the quality of food, I'm fussy and would always carry some sandwiches with me anyway, so I'm not really in a position to comment too much on that aspect

penexpers

Beasty wrote: »

Of course, with well over 2,000 entries, if you get several hundred turning up at a checkpoint within a short time there are bound to be queues. Getting ahead of the rush gets you to the front of the queues. In terms of the quality of food, I'm fussy and would always carry some sandwiches with me anyway, so I'm not really in a position to comment too much on that aspect

Did the Ring of Kerry in 2010. Think there were 3,000-odd entrants. Never queued for longer than five minutes at the stops.

Sounds like the problem with the WW200 is that you need to get something scanned before getting food. On the ROK, they tag your bike so all it takes is a quick glance at the bike to check if the person is registered.

07Lapierre

I always thought the €42 was for Medical support / mechanical assistance and insurance on the day. On top of that, you got a few gels/bars etc. at the start, a few sandwitches, tea/coffee and water refills at the stops, toilet facilities, and a medal/cert at the finish. Doesn't sound so bad when you think of it this way. Bad weather is FREE

Leroy42

So, you head off ahead of everyone else and don't use the food stops. Exactly what part of the organisation do you find worthwhile for €42?

I get the whole problem with so many people, but many posters here and even their own website have made suggestions which to a large extend they ignore.

If they find looking after so many a problem, they should limit the entries to those then can adequately cater for. (of course that would limit income, so its a clear choice they have made)

The event itself is good, the course is good, its the entry fee that let's it down. Being so expensive, and then making excuses, is not on.

So many other, smaller, but better run events around that, in my opinion, people should focus on.

Beasty

Leroy42 wrote: »

So, you head off ahead of everyone else and don't use the food stops. Exactly what part of the organisation do you find worthwhile for €42?

I never said I didn't use the food stops - I picked up a few bits and pieces, but as I'm vegetarian it's pretty much cheese sandwiches for me anyway. Hence I'm saying I'm not really in a position to commenton the quality of food.

07Lapierre has mentioned one or two things you get for your €42 - 200km is a long distance to cover whether it's medical assistence, mechanical support or marshalling

I'm not suggesting this is a particularly well run event, just that there are ways you can minimise any issues. I've also mentioned that I understand the organisers are trying to deal with some of the issues raised (and I'm not suggesting anyone is overplaying those issues, but if people do look back over the event threads they will see positive as well as negative experiences reported)

HivemindXX

Some of the negative comments here are over the top in my opinion. I've done this three times and every time I was glad I did. The food was ok, not great but not awful. I never had to queue for long but I was probably behind the main groups. The road markings were good, it was hard to go wrong, but there were very few marshals out on the route (actually I can't remember seeing one at all). The route itself was good, very scenic (not last year obviously since the rain meant I pretty much kept my head down the entire route) and challenging.

I plan to do it again next year, no question. Although having done an extreme weather version already I'll probably not turn up if torrential rain is forecast again.

Miklos

I'll be doing it this year if I'm not touring, I'll certainly be doing all the training for it anyway.

happytramp

I suppose the main problem is that with so many quality sportifs springing up due to the huge upsurge in cycling's popularity, it can't help but hi-light the lazy, half-arsed organisation that seems to go into the event. Look at something like the Leinster Loop. It gets about 12% the money in entry fees (which it gives to breast cancer awareness) yet still manages to be properly marshaled, have support vehicles, be well sign posted, have showers and massages afterwards, enough hot food for everybody, outrider cars and motor bikes to protect the participants from traffic, decent goodie bags, allow you to ride with stephen roche, have a group start with a festival atmosphere and still cost less than half the price of the WW200. How anybody can actually defend the event is beyond me. Where does the €84,000 in entry fees go? Because it certainly doesn't seem to go back into the event.

elduggo

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I beat most of the lines of people last year and the food / drink at the stations was ok but my heart sank at the finish when I saw the food we were given. Very dissatisfied at that.

last year the food at the end was poor alright. The year before that it was fine though. A buffet if I recall.

And on the point about queues for food. The Sean Kelly is generally deemed to be much better organised than the W200 but if you saw the lines for food at the end of that event (and if the lines for food are the main gripe people have about the w200) I'm not so sure people would agree.

At the Rathdrum stop this year you could eat all the food you want. They were aware that people were suffering. They were leading some people into a warm room at the back for fear they'd get hypothermia. Small touches maybe, and others can argue whether thats something worth paying for. All I'll say is, if it wasn't there it'd be missed and it was certainly much appreciated by me anyway.

greenmat

First time this year, worst weather ever I'm told, but loved it. Heard so much about the W200 since I started cycling 2 years ago, It's a must for all cyclist regardless of age or ability. One thing that annoyed me is not having a proper start, like other events. You start off with no sense of being at an event. Big let down. Food is ok, what do people really want when cycling, maybe a bit of Pasta half way might be better but what I got was fine with me. The halls they use are just too small. There has to be GAA halls etc somewhere they can use on the route.

€42 is too much, fullstop. Wouldn't mind paying it if a charity was receiving a percentage. 2 things stand out in my mind of this years event, the wonderful riders and encouragement given by and to each other. Heartwarming on such a brutal day, and the car at the summit of Slieve mann, woman with kids awaiting the arrival of their dad, honking the horn as everyone passed. I suffered up that Mountain, only my 2nd time to tackle it, all the way up wondering what that sound was. Brought a big smile to my face when I got mine. Amazing how the little things can make such a difference.

manwithaplan

elduggo wrote: »

At the Rathdrum stop this year you could eat all the food you want. They were aware that people were suffering. They were leading some people into a warm room at the back for fear they'd get hypothermia.

They also opened the doors at that stop to anyone, regardless of whether they had paid or registered. They weren't going to fuss over details when some people were suffering badly.

I'll probably do it again next year. The organisation's a bit crap but I don't really care. Moaning about sportives is like saying that you're not going back to Croke Park because the hot dogs are cold and overpriced - it just misses the point. I suppose it comes down to whether you approach the thing as a participant or a customer.

Leroy42

Participant or customer, therein lies the rub.

I think the W200 team see riders as customers. Charge as much as possible, while spending the lowest possible.

I think most riders see themselves as participants, being an integral part of the overall experience.

€42 is too expensive for what essentially Is a ride with basic food (which normally I have no issue with and provide for myself), little atmosphere at either start or finish, lack of medals, nothing you could rate as a goody bag, few marshalls, no police escort, undersized stop staging areas.

Even something as simple as a mass start would add greatly to the event, but this seems beyond the wit of the organisers (although I suspect it has more to do with the extra costs it would incur)

It could be a great event, but currently it is badly run and overpriced.€20, fine, you get a good course and the rest is up to you.€42 is madness. By charging €42, they are putting it the realm of a great event, so giving excuses for less than great running of the event should not be tolerated.

Cookie_Monster

happytramp wrote: »

I suppose the main problem is that with so many quality sportifs springing up due to the huge upsurge in cycling's popularity, it can't help but hi-light the lazy, half-arsed organisation that seems to go into the event. Look at something like the Leinster Loop. It gets about 12% the money in entry fees (which it gives to breast cancer awareness) yet still manages to be properly marshaled, have support vehicles, be well sign posted, have showers and massages afterwards, enough hot food for everybody, outrider cars and motor bikes to protect the participants from traffic, decent goodie bags, allow you to ride with stephen roche, have a group start with a festival atmosphere and still cost less than half the price of the WW200. How anybody can actually defend the event is beyond me. Where does the €84,000 in entry fees go? Because it certainly doesn't seem to go back into the event.

+1 to all of this.

I did the w200 this year and the Helping Hand 155km in Athy later in the summer. Apart from the weather (which no one can account for) it was a million times better run, better marshals (actually having them at more than 4-5 junctions), better food, people at the stops who were actually nice and interested in chatting rather than simply throwing a sandwich at you and much better finishing food and atmosphere. all for 25 instead of 42, most (if not all) of which went to charity.

I doubt I would do the w200 again having done it once, I'd just do the route myself if I wanted and spend the 42 on a proper lunch somewhere and a couple of pints after.

smacl

Leroy42 wrote: »

Participant or customer, therein lies the rub.

Bit of both really. The €42 would be a very minor issue for me, it's much more about having a good day after making a serious investment in training. Negatives aside, I had a great day out and intend on doing this event annually. I don't know if there's anyone from the organising side following this thread, but I could think of a number of simple changes that would improve the experience for myself at any rate;

- Make scanning cards at the stops optional, and do it inside rather than as a bottleneck to entry. Someone going around those already sitting down with the scanner. Given start and end times are scanned anyway, your total time gets recorded one way or another, and getting out of the cold and that cup of hot tea in hand is more important IMHO than ensuring everyone gets processed in an orderly fashion. Really only an issue in bad weather.

- Make an effort to get a photo of everyone en route for the web site. There were plenty photos this year, but neither myself nor the two lads I was cycling with appeared in any of them.

- If you're going to give out medals, buy enough to go around. Personally, I'd rather a jersey or even t-shirt, as I think of medals as being for something I've won rather than just participated in.

- (More difficult but most important) Try and get a bit of a carnival buzz going on. This is a pretty major event, and with people travelling, staying in Dublin/Wicklow, out to enjoy their day to the full. The end up in shore-line is a major anticlimax by comparison to other events I've done . Get in a bit of music, let the clubs / bike shops set up some stalls, organise some activities for kids, maybe even a beer tent... The other big sportives like the ROK, SKT, SkyRide etc. are treated by the organisers and locals alike as significant tourist events, that are both good for the community and the participants. FWIW, I thought the organisation behind the SkyRide in Clare was worse than the WW200, but the locals bought into it so much they really carried the event. The attitude from the Wicklow locals often seems to be that the event is an intrusion, rather than a benefit.

Just my 2c....

seamus

Tbh, I wasn't too pushed about the queueing tbh, I was standing outside for no more than 90 seconds. In our canteen in work, lots of people have been giving out that there have been huge queues for the last few months. But they complain, after they've arrived down in a group of ten with all their mates. Reminds me of the old adage, "You're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic".
On the morning of the WW200 I remember driving by huge groups of 30+ riders setting out. It's no wonder that some people will end up queueing if they arrive there in huge groups.

My only real gripe at the food stops was the quality of the food. All of the spotives I did after the WW200 were cheaper and had better food at the stops.

Agreed that there wasn't the same "carnival" feel to it as other rides. The cameraderie out on the ride is as good as any other, but the atmosphere at the food stops and the start and finish was very sterile. Maybe that's a symptom of not having a mass start or maybe it was the weather.

Not too pushed on the medals tbh. I got mine in the post, so I've no reason to complain.

I'll probably do it next year, if only to see how much I can improve my time and see what's it like in normal weather, but I don't know about after that.

greenmat

seamus wrote: »

I'll probably do it next year, if only to see how much I can improve my time and see what's it like in normal weather, but I don't know about after that.

Agree Seamus, only reason I would do it next year too, just to beat my 1st years time in good weather, and maybe even see the scenery.

2x4

The attitude from the Wicklow locals often seems to be that the event is an intrusion, rather than a benefit.

There is a lot more local community involvement in events I have done around the country. It certainly makes for a better experience when the community is involved in sign-on, marshalling, serving tea or when families stand and cheer you on at the side of the road.

Why this is not the case in Wicklow is due to a number of reasons. It could be partly due to the fact that the IVCA is not based in the county. The start/finish was always in Dublin up to a couple of years ago. Wicklow is a split east/west county because of the mountains hence more difficult to organise community involvement throughout the county.

happytramp

greenmat wrote: »

Heard so much about the W200 since I started cycling 2 years ago, It's a must for all cyclist regardless of age or ability.

To be honest there's the problem right there. They have a name and reputation and absolutely nothing else. They don't care about improving the standard of their event because they don't need to. People will turn up year after year regardless of how little organisational effort is put in.

Beasty

happytramp wrote: »

They don't care about improving the standard of their event because they don't need to. People will turn up year after year regardless of how little organisational effort is put in.

And what is your source for this happytramp?

As I've already alluded to a couple of times in this thread, I believe the organisers are aware of previous problems, and are looking at ways to improve the organisation (and to be clear this is just based on information I have seen as an ordinary member of the IVCA - I am not involved in any way in the organisation of the event, other than having "volunteered" to help mark the course for next year)

Clearly some posters have had bad experiences of this event in the past, and they are perfectly entitled to make their feelings know here (as some of them, as well as others, have done on previous threads).

This year we had someone on boards trying to "organise" an event on the day before the "real" event and it ended up pretty much a damp squib (quite ironic perhaps given the conditions on the day on the WW200), but the comments from posters who did take part in the real WW200 were generally quite positive.

In terms of pricing, the €42 includes insurance, when other events often require day licences to be purchased. There is also absolutely no pressure to raise money for charity (and I know of people who will put €50 into the pot for some events just to avoid the hassle of raising money for charity)

Yes some of the proceeds go into the general coffers of the IVCA, but there are significant costs associated in running these events. I certainly don't have a breakdown, but the costs of running the 2009 event were something in the order of €65k

greenmat

happytramp wrote: »

To be honest there's the problem right there. They have a name and reputation and absolutely nothing else. They don't care about improving the standard of their event because they don't need to. People will turn up year after year regardless of how little organisational effort is put in.

That's prob true alright, but it's worth doing the W200 for the route alone. Wicklow is such a brillant place to cycle, as beautiful as any place in europe. When starting off cycling you want to acheive certain goals and the W200 is right up there as an event that most cyclists want to complete, just for themself's. I will do it in 2012, to beat my time and hopefully enjoy it in better weather but beyond next year maybe never again as there are better run events to attend around the country, ie ROK.

It's a pity as it should be a carnival for cycling, inviting all the participants and their families to gather for the finish and celebrate, music, food, drink, entertainment etc. We put in huge hours training and our families do suffer so we can enjoy our sport, so a little payback to them would round the day off nicely.

happytramp

Beasty wrote: »

And what is your source for this happytramp?

Basically that the same complaints are raised year after year.

I'm glad to hear that they are looking to improve the event. A quick perusal of this and other similar threads would provide them with a wealth of useful suggestions. I must say i'm shocked to hear the event costs in the region €65,000. I'm not questioning your sources, I just find it hard to envisage where that sort of money goes.

C3PO

happytramp wrote: »

I must say i'm shocked to hear the event costs in the region €65,000. I'm not questioning your sources, I just find it hard to envisage where that sort of money goes.

I agree - I'd love to see a breakdown of that!

But the bottom line is that the event is oversubscribed every year and as long as that is the case the pressure on the organisers to change things is very limited!

ROK ON

Beasty wrote: »

I certainly don't have a breakdown, but the costs of running the 2009 event were something in the order of €65k

happytramp wrote: »

Basically that the same complaints are raised year after year.

I'm glad to hear that they are looking to improve the event. A quick perusal of this and other similar threads would provide them with a wealth of useful suggestions. I must say i'm shocked to hear the event costs in the region €65,000. I'm not questioning your sources, I just find it hard to envisage where that sort of money goes.

I seem to have opened a can of worms with my initial criticism of the event. I didnt mean to detract from the thread, but it does seem that there is some feeling abroad about this particular event.

No, as to the €65k, I havent heard a figure, but I do recall another boardsie telling me a while back that it is very very expensive to run and that not a whole lot of money is raised. So in that regard it does tally with Beasty figure. In syaing that, it is an astronomical amount of money to put on an event. I guess that the HQ for the day costs a fair few bob, plus insurance St Johns Ambulance etc.
However on the point of insurance - I think Beasty mentioned that insurance has to be paid for. Surely this could be done on the basis of needs (ie anyone with an IVCA or CI license is covered - so paying insurance for these folks is a double counting of insurance - if this is the case then it would be relatively easy to fix this).

The fact that (unlike say the Ring of Kerry and maybe Sean Kelly), that everything has to be bought in, will make a serious dent in the cost. If that is the case, then that cost needs to be recompensed in terms of facilities, food, event athmosphere etc etc. If not then it is to bad that it costs so much but IMHO it is money not well spent. They may be the largest event but it is no longer the premier event.

If they have not already done so, then they really should ask for sponsors in the form of provision of facilities, food, marshalls etc etc.

It does come down to price. If you paid a tenner for the WW200 then you couldnt complain about what is provided.

happytramp

ROK ON wrote: »

It does come down to price. If you paid a tenner for the WW200 then you couldnt complain about what is provided.

You're actually dead right here, good value covers a multitude of sins . But as it stands you're paying double and actually getting less than in many other events. People have become much more discerning in where they shop, eat, holiday etc so why not apply the ethos to paid cycling events? Just because something is the biggest or most famous doesn't mean it should be exempt from providing an acceptable level of service! That said if, as Beasty has pointed out, they really are trying to address some of the issues then that can only be a good thing for us the 'consumers'.

seamus

ROK ON wrote: »

So in that regard it does tally with Beasty figure. In syaing that, it is an astronomical amount of money to put on an event. I guess that the HQ for the day costs a fair few bob, plus insurance St Johns Ambulance etc.

It's roughly €32.50 per competitor, which does seem pretty steep to me.

One thing to consider about the WW200 though is the size and the nature of it. The majority of other events are shorter - more like 100-120km. And many also have mass starts. For for a 100km course with a mass start, you only need to provide support for 95% of the riders, who will occupy at most 75% of the course at any given time. In other words, you will only need support for 75km of roads at the most, rolling up as the riders come home.

In the WW200, you have people setting out from 6am to 11am and arriving back in between 10am and 8pm. So in theory they have to provide support (medical, technical and directional) which covers the entire 300km (between the two routes) for most of the day. Which is four times the support requirements of the former event.

Just something worth considering IMO.

You could argue that Etape has the same problem, but that's not cheap either and it has some massive corporate sponsors, which the WW200 doesn't.

blorg

People have been complaining about the cost and organisation for as long as the event has been run. Every year the organisers say they are taking the criticisms on board, and every year it is the same shambles.

And it is an expensive shambles. The Marmotte is cheaper, and covers an epic route in the French Alps, with 9,000 participants, and the food was better, unlimited, and I didn't have to queue for it. On top of that there was chip timing, partial road closures, great support and a real festive atmosphere.

The WW200 is a joke. Having said that it is still a great day out and I have done it every year since 2007 I was in the country... but this is down to the route and fellow participants, not the organisers. At this point I think I would just do the route on my own and not use their 'facilities.'

squeaky crank

blorg wrote: »

this is down to the route and fellow participants, not the organisers. '

Spot on blorg - Last year at the end when we got the yummy scallions and tomatoes and the 5 pieces of wet cold pasta - jesus h. what were they thinking - a spoonfull of chopped scallion???
This year - Ill enjoy the crack along the way bring plenty of food in the jersey and maybe get a cuppa tea somewhere but i will be treating it as more of an endurance event due lack of interest to improve from the organisers.

I would say to the organisers that alot of W100 and 200 cyclists have now experienced the excellent RoK, Tour de Foothills, Sean Kelly and other Sportifs and consider the w200 very poor value in comparison.

smacl

seamus wrote: »

So in theory they have to provide support (medical, technical and directional) which covers the entire 300km (between the two routes) for most of the day.

Just nitpicking, but the routes overlap substantially, there's only 222k of road involved.

jimm

Donard stop gone

Just got email from W200 admin.

"However, we have replaced the Donard checkpoint with a more spacious one in Baltinglass - a move which we expect will eliminate the much complained -of congestion and delay at Donard - the route from Hollywood to Rathdangan has changed."

seamus

Both good and a pity. I liked being able to drop into the aul pair in Donard.

Also means there's a long N81 section, probably about 10k? Hopefully there's no southerly that day...

smacl

seamus wrote: »

Hopefully there's no southerly that day...

Hopefully there isn't driving rain, gales and freezing conditions. That would be a bonus

Inquitus

smacl wrote: »

Hopefully there isn't driving rain, gales and freezing conditions. That would be a bonus

I'll never forget the descent off of Shay Elliot last year, blue skies, gentle breeze at your back.........

Kav0777

Inquitus wrote: »

I'll never forget the descent off of Shay Elliot last year, blue skies, gentle breeze at your back.........

ah yes, the smell of suncream always takes me back....

seamus

Inquitus wrote: »

I'll never forget the descent off of Shay Elliot last year, blue skies, gentle breeze at your back.........

I only remember a rather odd off-road descent through a shallow stream.