Please help with siophoning in bathroom.

MargeS

The water trap in our shower disappears quite often and the smell that escapes is brutal. It seems to happen whenever the weather is windy .
Anyone know why this happens?

MargeS

It has a vented cap at the top. just like this:

brinks_18476

Your suggestion of siphoning is the likely cause.

Installing a HEPVO device to replace your traditional type trap will prevent this. They work well!

gdavis

in meantime u can buy plastic suction covers that will cover ur shower outlet stopping smell coming in,then when u want a shower just remove cap,run shower which will fill up trap and replace when finished

freddyuk

brinks_18476 wrote: »

Your suggestion of siphoning is the likely cause.

Installing a HEPVO device to replace your traditional type trap will prevent this. They work well!

Yep they do work but make sure you get the horizontal version providing you can get to your shower trap. They are quite a long fitting. Otherwise check what else is connected to the system which may be dragging your traps. I assume a toilet is included? Bath? Capping your drain is not the answer.

gdavis

freddy i never suggested it was the answer,i simply meant that until it is sorted,in order to stop the smell it could be covered

heinbloed

Gdavis wrote:

in meantime u can buy plastic suction covers that will cover ur shower outlet stopping smell coming in, ....

Any picture of that miracle device? I'm not asking for a www link, just a picture. To be fair (smiley).

gdavis

u get them in woodies,b+q,not a miracle,common sense really

heinbloed

@ gdavis:

The gas (" the smell that escapes " ) comes with a positive pressure, is pushed in. How do these miracle work, the plastic suction covers ?

Creating a vacuum ("suction cover") on a pressurised pipe? You must be a plumber....

Hence I'm asking for a picture, maybe a comic strip explaining the function, not a written explanation or a link to the www (smiley).

heinbloed

@Marge:

The "knees" or "bends" or "elbows" under the outlet of your shower seem to be ill-constructed. The water standing in them should be high enough not be blown-out or to be lifted-up with standard wind forces.

If you can't help this due to having no acess to them anymore, no space to put in the correct high ones, a plain "air-pipe" might be the solution. Let the wind get into the main waste pipe and direct it outwards straight away.
Before it blows out the sewer gas into your bath room.

A civil engineer (in this country) will give you a construction drawing for this issue, the plumber would have to work to this.

Billy Bunting

heinbloed wrote: »

Hence I'm asking for a picture, maybe a comic strip explaining the function, not a written explanation or a link to the www (smiley).

Why not use your renowned skills and find a picture yourself.

Audioslaven

I had the same problem where the shower outflow pipe was connected onto the toilet sewer pipe. When the toilet was flushed and as the water passed the pipe connection from the shower to the toilet sewer pipe, it sucked the water from the shower trap allowing the smell to come into the toilet. All I did was I cut the shower pipe outside and put a T on the shower pipe. The top part of the T was exposed allowing air in. Simple solution for one euro or so

Cedrus

Audioslaven wrote: »

I had the same problem where the shower outflow pipe was connected onto the toilet sewer pipe. When the toilet was flushed and as the water passed the pipe connection from the shower to the toilet sewer pipe, it sucked the water from the shower trap allowing the smell to come into the toilet. All I did was I cut the shower pipe outside and put a T on the shower pipe. The top part of the T was exposed allowing air in. Simple solution for one euro or so

So now you have an untrapped opening into the toilet downpipe? How close to the nearest window is it?

Audioslaven

Cedrus wrote: »

So now you have an untrapped opening into the toilet downpipe? How close to the nearest window is it?

Yes it is untrapped but the sewer pipe is vented over the roof of the house as well so this is untrapped as well I think the sewer pipe vented over the roof pulls the smell of the sewer pipe before it even thinks of coming out through the T. I did this about four months ago and no hassle.The window is less than a half a meter away. There is no smell if that's what you are thinking and the T hole is very small anyway

heinbloed

@ MargeS:
The roofing job (felting) seems to be of shoddy quality, was this the same builder responsible for the sewers?

Cedrus

Audioslaven wrote: »

Yes it is untrapped but the sewer pipe is vented over the roof of the house as well so this is untrapped as well I think the sewer pipe vented over the roof pulls the smell of the sewer pipe before it even thinks of coming out through the T. I did this about four months ago and no hassle.The window is less than a half a meter away. There is no smell if that's what you are thinking and the T hole is very small anyway

The vent pipe is extended up because it's untrapped. The size differential between the open ends will obviously work in your favour, but less than half a metre from a window is in breach of the building regs (not that anyone's going to enforce them). The issue is not just smell, although that is an indicator, but there are all sorts of nasties like coliforms that could blow in particularly if the soil pipe ever blocks up. The last four months have been winter temps, it might not be so rosy in the summer.

It's shockingly common to see shower and basin wastes cut in to the soil pipes too close to the toilet, they should drop down at least 500mm before connecting (if at all), why should anyone have to deal with issues in their bathroom because the plumber was too tight to install 2.5 metres of 40mm plastic.

Ideally you should now extend up from the T to the same height as the Vent (or reconnect into the vent higher up).

Audioslaven

Cedrus wrote: »

The vent pipe is extended up because it's untrapped. The size differential between the open ends will obviously work in your favour, but less than half a metre from a window is in breach of the building regs (not that anyone's going to enforce them). The issue is not just smell, although that is an indicator, but there are all sorts of nasties like coliforms that could blow in particularly if the soil pipe ever blocks up. The last four months have been winter temps, it might not be so rosy in the summer.

It's shockingly common to see shower and basin wastes cut in to the soil pipes too close to the toilet, they should drop down at least 500mm before connecting (if at all), why should anyone have to deal with issues in their bathroom because the plumber was too tight to install 2.5 metres of 40mm plastic.

Ideally you should now extend up from the T to the same height as the Vent (or reconnect into the vent higher up).

Ok will see how it goes but to date I have no issues. It's probably back in august I did it. The pipe is below the window so I can't see any bacteria blowing up. The sewer pipe should never get blocked as its a up on the second floor, so if it does I will have some serious problems downstairs. I was going to move the shower pipe from the sewer pipe altogether and put it into the pipe that takes waste water from the sink(this is not connected to the septic tank) etc. The only thing is the sewer pipe is in between the two and i would have to get past the sewer pipe. It would look brutal as well with all these angles etc

gdavis

heinbloed,the cover covers the shower grating,stopping the smell coming up,simple as. also im looking to get my roof felted,any chance u could oversee the work incase its shoddy?? xx

SC024

Care to share some of your world renowned wisdom with ourselves here & point out how you think it should be done ?

heinbloed wrote: »

@ MargeS:
The roofing job (felting) seems to be of shoddy quality, was this the same builder responsible for the sewers?

heinbloed

SCO24 wrote:

Care to share some of your world renowned wisdom with ourselves here & point out how you think it should be done ?




Adressee ?

Sure, we care ...hence pointing out the shoddy workmanship to the OP. Others might not be able to do so.

SC024

oh i dont know maybe you could address it to the OP or myself?


Was kind of hoping that seen as you pointed out the shoddy workmanship, you might be able to explain how it should be done as as If/When the OP decides to have it rectified they will know how should be done so not to get ripped off by dodgy builders again ? In the spirit of being helpful like.


Adressee ?

Sure, we care ...hence pointing out the shoddy workmanship to the OP. Others might not be able to do so.[/QUOTE]

phelixoflaherty

Just an idea but could you leave an upturned small plastic container over the top of the pipe. Size not important but it will stop the wind blowing directly across the vent pipe and reduce the suction power.
A long stick could get it up there

heinbloed

Mmh, I get the feeling SCO24 want's to know how to felt a flat roof.

There are propper roofers out there who can do this job and give a guarantee on it.
It's certainly not a DIY option if totally unexperienced.

This is the heating and plumbing forum, SCO24.

For the DIY enthusiast there are books available containing more information than an internet forum is propably capeable of.

heinbloed

Phelixoflaherty wrote:

Just an idea but could you leave an upturned small plastic container over the top of the pipe. Size not important but it will stop the wind blowing directly across the vent pipe and reduce the suction power.
A long stick could get it up there

Technically, yes. But it wouldn't make much difference to the problem.
The fall winds will still be there, the increased air pressure pushing foul smelling air via the traps into the bath room.

There are devices available which can be added to the waste pipe instead of a small plastic container. Designed to do the job. Available from the plumbing shop......


How did Marge get on? Is the problem solved?

SC024

No, on the contrary i've absolutely no interest what soever in doing a flat roof, I'm just trying to help the OP here thats all...

heinbloed wrote: »

Mmh, I get the feeling SCO24 want's to know how to felt a flat roof.

There are propper roofers out there who can do this job and give a guarantee on it.
It's certainly not a DIY option if totally unexperienced.

This is the heating and plumbing forum, SCO24.

For the DIY enthusiast there are books available containing more information than an internet forum is propably capeable of.

heinbloed

There are numerous solutions possible, the plumbers have failed to attach them. Maybe there was no plumber involved so far?
Here a link to tried and tested vents, as said: there are many more out there:

http://62.154.249.182/artikel/rohrbeluefter/rohrbeluefter_eng.php

I think Wavin is selling similar products here in Ireland, check them.