Has God ever spoken to you?

Spacedog

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

ISAW

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

I think it sounded something like....

"Don't feed the troll"

Spacedog

Sincere answers only please.

ISAW

I was sincere. How do you think I wasn't ? This post however in addition has irony as well.

Soul Winner

ISAW wrote: »

I think it sounded something like....

"Don't feed the troll"

Was He being metaphorical or literal? :rolleyes:

Soul Winner

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

Good question regardless of the motive. I've never had any audible voice talk out of the sky to me but I do read what I believe is His Word and try to base my life on what it says and to trust in what it says relative to my daily experience. But God speaks in many different ways not necessarily in an audible (to our hearing sense) fashion.

"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs." Hebrews 1:1-4

God is always speaking, some folks are just more open to receiving it than others.

georgieporgy

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

He spoke to me too. Many times in fact. It's always the same message:
"I've been trying to talk to a guy named Spacedog (one of my lost sheep) for a long time but he never listens. Can you help me reach him please"

Cavehill Red

Soul Winner wrote: »

God is always speaking, some folks are just more open to receiving it than others.

Being omnipotent, you'd think he might raise his voice a little, then?

Soul Winner

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Being omnipotent, you'd think he might raise his voice a little, then?

Well He could I suppose but then being omnipotent I reckon He knows whether that will work or not

Akrasia

God never spoke to me, but when i was an angsty teenager I felt that thom yorke was speaking to me directly through his lyrics. I suppose religious types feel the same when they read the bible.

TravelJunkie

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

He won't speak to you unless you're a Christian, of the born-again variety.

By born again, I mean that he has taken away your old corrupt self that he cannot talk to, and made you new. This new spiritual person that you are inside is nothing like the old you. This new person loves God. This new person wants to talk and praise God. So, of course, God will speak to this 'new man'.

And, He does so through his Holy Spirit.

Now, all of this is will sound gibberish to you if you're not a christian. So if you're not a christian, and you want fellowship with God, ask him to make you new and invite him into your life.

If you don't want fellowship with God, continue on in your old ways.

mikhail

TravelJunkie wrote: »

He won't speak to you unless you're a Christian, of the born-again variety.

By born again, I mean that he has taken away your old corrupt self that he cannot talk to, and made you new.

The claim that He cannot talk to anyone He chooses is difficult to believe.
Genesis 18:1 Is any thing too hard for the LORD?
Luke 18:27 Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Revelations 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
(My bold type for emphasis.)

Onesimus

TravelJunkie wrote: »

He won't speak to you unless you're a Christian, of the born-again variety.

By born again, I mean that he has taken away your old corrupt self that he cannot talk to, and made you new. This new spiritual person that you are inside is nothing like the old you. This new person loves God. This new person wants to talk and praise God. So, of course, God will speak to this 'new man'.

And, He does so through his Holy Spirit.

Now, all of this is will sound gibberish to you if you're not a christian. So if you're not a christian, and you want fellowship with God, ask him to make you new and invite him into your life.

If you don't want fellowship with God, continue on in your old ways.

Funny you should say that. Didnt he speak to St.Paul who was not a Christian and became converted as a result? Of course he did.

He also spoke to loads of people in the Gospel who hadnt a clue he was The Son Of God.

Akrasia

TravelJunkie wrote: »

He won't speak to you unless you're a Christian, of the born-again variety.

By born again, I mean that he has taken away your old corrupt self that he cannot talk to, and made you new. This new spiritual person that you are inside is nothing like the old you. This new person loves God. This new person wants to talk and praise God. So, of course, God will speak to this 'new man'.

And, He does so through his Holy Spirit.

Now, all of this is will sound gibberish to you if you're not a christian. So if you're not a christian, and you want fellowship with God, ask him to make you new and invite him into your life.

If you don't want fellowship with God, continue on in your old ways.

So you have to convince yourself to devote yourself to believing in god before god starts to communicate with you.

Ok. If I start from a position that I believe in ghosts and really want to see evidence of ghosts, and I hear a bump in the night, then i can very easily convince myself that I have just heard a ghost

Once you are focused on something, your mind will bend your perception of reality to accomodate it.

It is a proven property of the consciousness. Reality is processed by the brain to fit the pre-conceptions of what the brain expects to see, not necessarily what is actually real.

http://www.isca-speech.org/archive_open/archive_papers/avsp03/av03_071.pdf

Doc Farrell

If you genuinely want to investigate the supernatural why not use your investigative skills and reasoning to really look into it? Arguing with an anonymous poster on boards won't help you.

Soul Winner

Akrasia wrote: »

It is a proven property of the consciousness. Reality is processed by the brain to fit the pre-conceptions of what the brain expects to see, not necessarily what is actually real.
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Off topic I know but this is why the hallucination theory to explain what the disciples experienced when they claimed to have seen Jesus alive and well after His crucifixion is defunct, because had they had actual hallucinations then what they would have seen would have been more inline with Jewish thinking about the Messiah i.e. to see Him on Clouds of glory in a vision of sorts. Jews were not expecting the Messiah to die let alone to rise from the dead afterwards, so to call what they claimed to see an hallucination goes against everything we know about the brain today as you have rightly pointed out. Just thought I throw that in.

Eramen

God has never spoken to anyone. God the Father cannot 'speak', he is an infinite value that transcends the perceptible world and energised action; this is so because he is complete, lacking nothing. God cannot interact in a human or material fashion with 'the world', because he is the source of existence. Do you get me? So understanding this I cannot answer you properly OP in this context but I will in another way.

Rather it is the Word of God, or logos, that has informed the person, whether it be Moses, St. Paul or anyone else. It is the second person of the Holy Trinity, whose personality is not to be strictly associated with Jesus of Nazareth (though it was Christ), but one that exists for all eternity with the Father, and outside of him in all things.

In the Gospel of John: "Before Abraham was, I AM." This reflects the eternal status of the Son, as he never diminishes or fails to be. This was also decreed by the early Church who recognised the true, limitless character of the Son of God. It can be seen too in Eastern iconography in works depicting Jesus Christ, around the Nimbus / halo there will be the Greek characters for "I AM" or "The Being One". As these attest, the Son is always in existence, in all places, in a continuous being. He is not an object or character, but a never-ending light that shines on and energises the attentive mind.

When Moses on Mount Sinai asked (the Word of) God who shall he say has sent him, he is told, "I AM, that I AM, tell them I AM has sent you". It is none other than Christ who is speaking. The Heavenly Father has never been seen by anyone as is described in the Gospels. All revelation, all manifestation and all communication has always been rooted in the Logos, or Word, since the beginning of the universe's being.

No one can reach the Father except by the Son, as it is stated. But the Son is not limited to Jesus Christ, but is him. "I AM, that I AM."

Onesimus

Am I the only one here who thinks that the OP is NOT trolling? just thought I'd ask.

Eramen

Onesimus wrote: »

Am I the only one here who thinks that the OP is NOT trolling? just thought I'd ask.

I really don't know, but I guess its an important question either way. It would probably be better to frame it as "Who has God spoken to/can God speak to you?"

Giving them the benefit of the doubt anyway

Owen

There was a poster here before, BrianCalgary who genuinely believed his wife had daily dialogues with Jesus. Scary stuff.

PDN

Onesimus wrote: »

Am I the only one here who thinks that the OP is NOT trolling? just thought I'd ask.

Yes, I think you probably are. Give a dog a bad name ....

Spacedog

I was indeed being sincere, as I was my related thread about psychedelic which I might add was dealt with in a very childish and immature way by those who frequent this board.

muppeteer

^^
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1637990216567018276
As skeptical as I was that LSD seminarian experimentation stuff seems legit:)
Skip to about 10 mins in.

canbai

I don't know，but I think everything can be the language of the Greatest Creator. The changing phenomena can be the dialogues between the Greatest Creator and man.

Simtech

canbai wrote: »

I don't know，but I think everything can be the language of the Greatest Creator. The changing phenomena can be the dialogues between the Greatest Creator and man.

It could also be that man created this greatest creator in a bid to explain that which he did/does not understand. I think even the religious must acknowledge the possibility that this could be the only truth. I would find the failure to acknowledge this possibility on anyones part a little unsettling.
I would also find it unsettling if those who were not believers were not to acknowledge the possibility that your take on things could be the truth.
The debate might be a bit more open and constructive were each side to acknowledge these basic positions.

The Quadratic Equation

Simtech wrote: »

It could also be that man created this greatest creator in a bid to explain that which he did/does not understand. I think even the religious must acknowledge the possibility that this could be the only truth. I would find the failure to acknowledge this possibility on anyones part a little unsettling.
I would also find it unsettling if those who were not believers were not to acknowledge the possibility that your take on things could be the truth.
The debate might be a bit more open and constructive were each side to acknowledge these basic positions.

A good balanced opinion, from my perspective that takes me back to this ; to date, everything we know, has a cause, right back in one long chain. The furthest back we can comprehend is the big bang, an amazing phenomenon to say the least, just in terms of energy and expansion alone. What caused the big bang ? We don't know. Are there a billion other universes ? We don't know.

I don't believe something can spring from nothing.

I believe that there is an original uncaused cause for all of this, and whatever it is, for me, it could legitimately be called God, the source of all energy and spirit. The bible tells us God is a spirit. Jesus refers to God the father. From the beginning, Jesus is God the son, and the word, the logos, the one who has spoken to us since the dawn of man.

Yes, man has used the idea of God to try and explain many things. I am an extremely skeptical person, but yet for some reason I cannot fully explain, perhaps by grace, I believe Jesus and his apostles were telling the truth, and therefore, for me, God has explained God. Granted that is a belief, not a certainity.

soterpisc

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

Once... during a down part in my life when I was young, really did not know if God existed or not.. I asked Christ, don't know why, if he loved me and I heard him say of course he did.

Christ does speak to us in many ways and sometimes very directly. Problem is today that people don't want to listen or are even bothered trying to find him.

Onesimus

soterpisc wrote: »

Once... during a down part in my life when I was young, really did not know if God existed or not.. I asked Christ, don't know why, if he loved me and I heard him say of course he did.

Christ does speak to us in many ways and sometimes very directly. Problem is today that people don't want to listen or are even bothered trying to find him.

True. How can anyone convinced he doesnt exist find him? How will I ever drive that car if I'm convinced I cant drive or not capable of it?

Simtech

Oneisimus, do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion? If one is inclined to believe the scientific explanations for our reality, yet acknowledges that before the big bang could have existed a creator, can one find God in the sheer beauty of our existence, enjoy a personal communion with him and still be saved? If we acknowledge the fallibility of individuals, can we not acknowledge also the fallibility of religion as it is composed of individuals? Surely God does not require religious organisations to speak to us.

eyesquirm

I'm not very devout, so I don't know if it was god or not, but last Friday when I left the pub a voice in my head convinced me I needed two Big Macs with all the trimmings.

Fanny Cradock

I'd be fairly sure that God would have wanted you to go Supermacs. Maybe next time, eh!

antiskeptic

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

Sure.

He said "Don't stop, go on"

I didn't and did. And sure enough, a mile or so later, I found a pair of motorcycle gloves I'd been looking for that had fallen from under a bungee cord. I'd been on the point of giving it up as a lost cause.

That was shortly after I was born again. Since then, nothing 'audible' (although those words were in my head)

Doc Farrell

Simtech wrote: »

Oneisimus, do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion? If one is inclined to believe the scientific explanations for our reality, yet acknowledges that before the big bang could have existed a creator, can one find God in the sheer beauty of our existence, enjoy a personal communion with him and still be saved? If we acknowledge the fallibility of individuals, can we not acknowledge also the fallibility of religion as it is composed of individuals? Surely God does not require religious organisations to speak to us.

Many different individuals within many religions took terrible decisions over the last two thousand years. Consumed by self righteous egotism, believing they knew better than the humble or were above the law, they destroyed communities of innocents. So, yes, one must use full reason and knowledge while being member of a church.
But at the same time there are many treasures to enjoy, that help us. For me one of the most valuable is the written word of so many teachers. In reference to the thread title many of these words are considered inspired by the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity.
Getting involved in a religion, one has a duty to really put Reason to work, not to put it to sleep. And also to shush one's noisy ego for a while, not an easy thing to do for most of us!
I have been reading today about St. Gregory, a doctor of the Catholic church. He was the first to put into use the phrase 'servant of the servants of God'. It refers to his job, as Pope. It's a humble way to look at it. Another quote I like attributed to him in a way balances the the criticisms that Catholics spent too much time and money on Art and Churches and not enough on the poor. Perhaps they did but anyway here's his quote:
Illiterate men can contemplate in the lines of a picture what they cannot learn by means of the written word.
Perhaps not as powerful an idea now as when it was expressed by him in the 6th century.

For many the church on this island is considered, or was, as one of action, steeped in politics. Perhaps, stepping back, it's returning to being one of contemplation, the half that has been overshadowed, in my view, for too long?

Simtech

Simtech wrote: »

Oneisimus, do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion? If one is inclined to believe the scientific explanations for our reality, yet acknowledges that before the big bang could have existed a creator, can one find God in the sheer beauty of our existence, enjoy a personal communion with him and still be saved? If we acknowledge the fallibility of individuals, can we not acknowledge also the fallibility of religion as it is composed of individuals? Surely God does not require religious organisations to speak to us.

Can I open this question to all for anyone to address? I think it's a position that is widely held, though I have no evidence to support the claim, I simply imagine it true. I think that this is the perfect forum to pose the question though so it stands to all.

Simtech

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Getting involved in a religion, one has a duty to really put Reason to work, not to put it to sleep. And also to shush one's noisy ego for a while, not an easy thing to do for most of us!

Indeed! This is what I am attempting to do. I cannot silence the reasonable part of my being which is full of questions and harder still is it to shush my ego. I have doubt that will not be ignored yet I find the question 'Is there a God?' will not be ignored either.

Doc Farrell

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

A good balanced opinion, from my perspective that takes me back to this ; to date, everything we know, has a cause, right back in one long chain. The furthest back we can comprehend is the big bang, an amazing phenomenon to say the least, just in terms of energy and expansion alone. What caused the big bang ? We don't know. Are there a billion other universes ? We don't know.

I don't believe something can spring from nothing.

I believe that there is an original uncaused cause for all of this, and whatever it is, for me, it could legitimately be called God, the source of all energy and spirit. The bible tells us God is a spirit. Jesus refers to God the father. From the beginning, Jesus is God the son, and the word, the logos, the one who has spoken to us since the dawn of man.

Yes, man has used the idea of God to try and explain many things. I am an extremely skeptical person, but yet for some reason I cannot fully explain, perhaps by grace, I believe Jesus and his apostles were telling the truth, and therefore, for me, God has explained God. Granted that is a belief, not a certainity.

An interesting post, the final sentence is something that I'm struggling with and investigating for myself now. The answer is either that the Apostles were inveterate liars who had so much to lose that they would rather be killed than to change their lie or that they were telling the truth.

I'm reading about miracles attributed to the intercession of saints at the moment, putting together my view on them. I will post about it another time but basically I call it my 1% theory. It's a terrible name but basically it means that if only 1% of the supernatural, crazy, extraordinary changes that we call miracles took place then that 1% opens up the entire universe of the supernatural, or to use that overworked word, God. The question is which miracle, if any, is real? It would be lazy of me to wait for YouTube to show me so it's up to me to get off my metaphorical backside and investigate it for myself. (metaphorical, as I'm mostly sitting down doing this stuff...)

The Quadratic Equation

Simtech wrote: »

do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion? If one is inclined to believe the scientific explanations for our reality, yet acknowledges that before the big bang could have existed a creator, can one find God in the sheer beauty of our existence, enjoy a personal communion with him and still be saved? If we acknowledge the fallibility of individuals, can we not acknowledge also the fallibility of religion as it is composed of individuals? Surely God does not require religious organisations to speak to us.

In a very short answer, for a few, perhaps yes, but more by accident for them than by design . . .

Christianity, for those who practice it sincerely is not an organised religion club, it's a realisation that what Christ taught was true. For me the Catholic religion connects me to Christ in a way I could not achieve fully in any other way, particularly in The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Eucharist.

Doc Farrell

Simtech wrote: »

Indeed! This is what I am attempting to do. I cannot silence the reasonable part of my being which is full of questions and harder still is it to shush my ego. I have doubt that will not be ignored yet I find the question 'Is there a God?' will not be ignored either.

No matter what answers we find, if any, at least both religious and non-religious can agree that we have a duty to use our facilities to their fullest, whether God give or not!

If we are driven by our spoilt ego to respond to questions then we become exhausted and argumentative quickly. But if we are driven by a quest for truth, it becomes a game, enjoyable, difficult but with it's own soundtrack, rather like an Indiana Jones movie, except the Hero has a pot belly!
That's why, in my case, I try to shush the ego while pushing the brain out of its lazy middle age comfort zone! And as I'm about to have a glass of wine it looks likes the brain is retiring early again for the night! Good luck.

al28283

Onesimus wrote: »

Am I the only one here who thinks that the OP is NOT trolling? just thought I'd ask.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74158809

There's your answer

Onesimus

Oneisimus, do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion? If one is inclined to believe the scientific explanations for our reality, yet acknowledges that before the big bang could have existed a creator, can one find God in the sheer beauty of our existence, enjoy a personal communion with him and still be saved? If we acknowledge the fallibility of individuals, can we not acknowledge also the fallibility of religion as it is composed of individuals? Surely God does not require religious organisations to speak to us.

One can not serve both God and the world, by that I mean scientific world regarding theories that seek to undermine the creator or have no evidence for their alleged theory. The object of Science is to study whats visible and not invisible. When science seeks to find out and seek out the creator it then leaves the realm of Science and enters that of philosophy.

Religion is not simply created by individuals but created by God who uses men as his tool to accomplish many things. Can he do it without man? why of course but he chooses his way of doing things over ours. And who are we to tell God what he can do and not do? and how he does it?

So if humans are fallible how can an all infallible God use them to speak to us? Well when anyone speaks in the Spirit it is the spirit ( God ) who speaks to us and not the fallible human being.

So no God does not require it, but he chooses to do it that way because he loves us and wants us to participate in his Divine plan for the salvation of souls. He is not a God that pushes us away and decides to go it alone. He is all humble and wants our participation.

I'm no scholar but I hope that sounds somewhat sensible.

Simtech

Sorry but I'll have to be up early with the kids so I shall excuse myself and continue tomorrow. Night all.

Doc Farrell

Congratulations on your 1000th post onesimus! All those candles must be keeping you on the right path!

Onesimus

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Congratulations on your 1000th post onesimus! All those candles must be keeping you on the right path!

1000 posts? thats not good. lol. Makes me look gabby.

antiskeptic

Simtech wrote: »

do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion? If one is inclined to believe the scientific explanations for our reality, yet acknowledges that before the big bang could have existed a creator, can one find God in the sheer beauty of our existence, enjoy a personal communion with him and still be saved? If we acknowledge the fallibility of individuals, can we not acknowledge also the fallibility of religion as it is composed of individuals? Surely God does not require religious organisations to speak to us..

I'm of the opinion that God can most certainly be found outside organised religion - whether you mean that organisation is something rather organised (like the the Roman Catholic church) or whether you mean that organisation is something rather disorganised yet gathering approximately around the same flag (Christianity gathered around Christ).

I see no reason, for instance, why a sheep herder in Tibet whose never heard of God of the Bible or the Bible or Jesus Christ can't be saved since the mechanism of salvation is, I believe, operable everywhere. The Tibeten sheep herder will go through exactly the same regenerative process that the 'Christian' does here in Ireland - it just that the formalised knowledge of Christ (through exposure to a Christian background) won't be his.


I don't think someone like youself (living in the Irish context) could be saved and regenerated yet sustain an indifference to the message of Christ. As soon as you were born (again) you would find yourself seeking out Christ (in Christianity) like a babe does the breastmilk. This isn't to say such a search would be straightforward or immediately matured - it could, for instance take the form of hanging with Christians on an internet discussion forum - finding that which they speak of somehow warming. Or making sense. Or striking chords. Or inexplicably attractive and interesting.

I've a mate who got born again shortly after me. I was thrilled and sent him a Bible. He didn't open it for 5 years but is now on fire for Christ such as to put me to shame. Different strokes..

tommy2bad

do you think one could find God without organised religion or with less than full immersion into a religion?

I do. I'll go further ,I think God will find you.

I don't think someone like youself (living in the Irish context) could be saved and regenerated yet sustain an indifference to the message of Christ.

No salvation outside the church. We cant find God alone or rather God isn't some 'other' we find Him in our dealings with people and the world we live in.

I see no reason, for instance, why a sheep herder in Tibet whose never heard of God of the Bible or the Bible or Jesus Christ can't be saved since the mechanism of salvation is, I believe, operable everywhere.

Yep thats it.

In a very short answer, for a few, perhaps yes, but more by accident for them than by design . . .

No, by design. We are designed to find God the trouble is defining Him.

Simtech

tommy2bad wrote: »

No salvation outside the church.

No, by design. We are designed to find God the trouble is defining Him.

If there is no salvation outside the church then it follows that all of those who have ever inhabited the Earth without being members of your chosen church and following it's dictates are necessarily lost to God, presumably found by Satan?

Yes there does seem to be a lot of trouble defining him. It seems that it has been left to the possibly fertile imaginations of some 2000 odd year old peasants. Perhaps it might be ill-advised to rely on them.

Simtech

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that God can most certainly be found outside organised religion - whether you mean that organisation is something rather organised (like the the Roman Catholic church) or whether you mean that organisation is something rather disorganised yet gathering approximately around the same flag (Christianity gathered around Christ).

I see no reason, for instance, why a sheep herder in Tibet whose never heard of God of the Bible or the Bible or Jesus Christ can't be saved since the mechanism of salvation is, I believe, operable everywhere. The Tibeten sheep herder will go through exactly the same regenerative process that the 'Christian' does here in Ireland - it just that the formalised knowledge of Christ (through exposure to a Christian background) won't be his.


I don't think someone like youself (living in the Irish context) could be saved and regenerated yet sustain an indifference to the message of Christ. As soon as you were born (again) you would find yourself seeking out Christ (in Christianity) like a babe does the breastmilk. This isn't to say such a search would be straightforward or immediately matured - it could, for instance take the form of hanging with Christians on an internet discussion forum - finding that which they speak of somehow warming. Or making sense. Or striking chords. Or inexplicably attractive and interesting.

I've a mate who got born again shortly after me. I was thrilled and sent him a Bible. He didn't open it for 5 years but is now on fire for Christ such as to put me to shame. Different strokes..

It is the inexplicable I seek to explain. Perhaps then I will better understand where Christians are coming from. I will continue to investigate with as open a mind as I can manage, considering both religion and science and anything else which may bear on the issue.

Simtech

Onesimus wrote: »

One can not serve both God and the world, by that I mean scientific world regarding theories that seek to undermine the creator or have no evidence for their alleged theory. The object of Science is to study whats visible and not invisible. When science seeks to find out and seek out the creator it then leaves the realm of Science and enters that of philosophy.

Religion is not simply created by individuals but created by God who uses men as his tool to accomplish many things. Can he do it without man? why of course but he chooses his way of doing things over ours. And who are we to tell God what he can do and not do? and how he does it?

So if humans are fallible how can an all infallible God use them to speak to us? Well when anyone speaks in the Spirit it is the spirit ( God ) who speaks to us and not the fallible human being.

So no God does not require it, but he chooses to do it that way because he loves us and wants us to participate in his Divine plan for the salvation of souls. He is not a God that pushes us away and decides to go it alone. He is all humble and wants our participation.

I'm no scholar but I hope that sounds somewhat sensible.

I doubt that any scientific theory actively seeks to undermine the creator, science is not conducted to arrive at a presupposed outcome. It is evidence based and peer reviewed. Such is my understanding of it.

If God uses men as his tool, what then of free will.

"Well when anyone speaks in the Spirit it is the spirit ( God ) who speaks to us and not the fallible human being."

Again, free will is apparently absent.

PDN

Simtech wrote: »

some 2000 odd year old peasants.

I would suggest some study on who wrote the Bible. certainly not peasants.

I would also point out that the concept of 'no salvation outside of the church' is not a biblical one, and is peculaiar to one particular denomination.

Ted_YNWA

Spacedog wrote: »

I realise God doesn't speak to everyone directly, and that it is a very personal experience, but would anyone here care to share what he said to you?

How do I differentiate God between all the other voices in my head ?

Simtech

PDN wrote: »

I would suggest some study on who wrote the Bible. certainly not peasants.

I would also point out that the concept of 'no salvation outside of the church' is not a biblical one, and is peculiar to one particular denomination.

A generalisation to be sure, nonetheless there was no such thing as peer review or any other mechanism to confirm or deny the truth of the writings? They must necessarily be taken at face value.

As for the second point, I am glad to hear it. It opens up other paths to salvation which could only be a good thing.