Switch money from euro to what?

average_runner

Hi All;


I have a lump sum in euro and think i should switch to something else instead of euro?


If i choose sterling/dollar, will sterling lose alot of value too if euro goes?

Should i move all the lump sum or just 50%?

Not looking for smart answers jsut some solid advice?

Thanks a million

Plazaman

Regardless of the scaremongering regarding the Euro, I still would say that if you have a lump sum, you should invest (as in you would not need the cash for at least 5 years) then I would advise to buy gold not another currency. I

And I mean buy the actual gold bar not invest in bullion stocks. As for %, all depends on your finances but I'd avoid an all eggs in one basket scenario.

Good Luck.

Hayte

You can't spend gold bars. This kind of advice is really only relevant to people that have tonnes of wealth and can still live comfortably between now and the death of fiat despite converting a massive chunk of their money into something that can't be slotted into a luas ticketing machine.

And if you have the kind of wealth to do that, you wouldn't be looking for financial advice here. You would have your own money manager.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tora Bora

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That advice has been adopted by many a citizen in this country over the past while.
I heard a money manager whose name I forget interviewed on Newstalk last week, who said that German banks, would most likely take the view that Irish euros had been lodged, and would be returned at Irish euro equivalent in the new DM with appropriate interest added:o
Now that would be a shocker.

dario28

Tora Bora wrote: »

That advice has been adopted by many a citizen in this country over the past while.
I heard a money manager whose name I forget interviewed on Newstalk last week, who said that German banks, would most likely take the view that Irish euros had been lodged, and would be returned at Irish euro equivalent in the new DM with appropriate interest added:o
Now that would be a shocker.

How likely is this to happen and if it was what would stop you transferring it to a person with a German address bank account and getting them to withdraw it

It would be very difficult to manage

Tora Bora

dario28 wrote: »

How likely is this to happen and if it was what would stop you transferring it to a person with a German address bank account and getting them to withdraw it

It would be very difficult to manage

Apparently it is easily managed. Many of the accounts opened by Irish people, restrict withdrawals, other than back to the account from which the money came in the first instance:eek: Small print "auf Deutsch".

dario28

Tora Bora wrote: »

Apparently it is easily managed. Many of the accounts opened by Irish people, restrict withdrawals, other than back to the account from which the money came in the first instance:eek: Small print "auf Deutsch".

How does that work when you just walk into a bank in Germany open and account and hand them X amount of money

Nody

Tora Bora wrote: »

That advice has been adopted by many a citizen in this country over the past while.
I heard a money manager whose name I forget interviewed on Newstalk last week, who said that German banks, would most likely take the view that Irish euros had been lodged, and would be returned at Irish euro equivalent in the new DM with appropriate interest added:o
Now that would be a shocker.

I'd take what the guy said with a boatload of salt.

The bank don't give a toss who's depositing the money (outside laundry etc.) and will keep it at the currency given on the account. They day an exchange would come up I'm quite certain you'd be given two options, send it all back (at what ever exchange rate Ireland gets) or convert it to Dmarks (at what ever rate that is) and keep it in the account. The banks WANTS you to deposit money; why would they go around trying to make it difficult for you?

But to the OP, assuming you want to go completly out of the euro (if not I'd echo Germany and add Finland to the list) I'd recommend either Sweden or Norway. Both have very strong finances (and make rest of Europe weep when they see what they are doing). Sweden for example currently borrows for LESS then Germany (the golden standard usually)!

W123-80's

I am a modest earner and a modest saver.

Presently I have a lump sum on deposit in the Credit Union. Couple of grand loan also, nothing that worries me. Savings far exceed loan.

I am pretty laid back in my approach to money. (Some will say stupid/lazy/foolish.!) I'm Not to worried about earning interest or investing etc. Generally happy to put money away every week and know I have a decent lump of cash building all the time.

I have no dependants and no property.

I'm pretty concerned at the moment with regards my deposit.

I'm considering the following;

Transferring €xx to a family members bank account in Canada
Transferring €xx to a family members bank account in Australia
Transferring €xx to a family members bank account in England
Buying approx €5k Swedish/Norwegian currency.

All figures estimates.

Is this legal/sensible??

Tora Bora

dario28 wrote: »

How does that work when you just walk into a bank in Germany open and account and hand them X amount of money

Money laundering regulations, require all EU banks to satisfy themselves as to persons identity, and source of funds being lodged:o You cannot just turn up with a bag of cash

Nody

W123-80's wrote: »

I am a modest earner and a modest saver.

Presently I have a lump sum on deposit in the Credit Union. Couple of grand loan also, nothing that worries me. Savings far exceed loan.

I am pretty laid back in my approach to money. (Some will say stupid/lazy/foolish.!) I'm Not to worried about earning interest or investing etc. Generally happy to put money away every week and know I have a decent lump of cash building all the time.

I have no dependants and no property.

I'm pretty concerned at the moment with regards my deposit.

I'm considering the following;

Transferring €xx to a family members bank account in Canada
Transferring €xx to a family members bank account in Australia
Transferring €xx to a family members bank account in England
Buying approx €5k Swedish/Norwegian currency.

All figures estimates.

Is this legal/sensible??

Why would it be illegal? Sensible is another question though. By going for 5 different currencies (assumption) you're adding in a lot of risk for various losses (beyond depending on them actually not going spending the money that you sent there).

Instead I'll just echo Permabear again; open an account and deposit some in Germany, deposit some in a domestic bank account that don't cost money in another country of choice (you can usually find online banks that have free bank accounts, only check that they are covered by the bank guarantee of the country) and keep some here locally so you have it available as needed. If you want to minimize risks you can also send over additional money on a regular basis to reduce the impact of fluctuations of exchange rate.

Tora Bora wrote: »

Money laundering regulations, require all EU banks to satisfy themselves as to persons identity, and source of funds being lodged:o You cannot just turn up with a bag of cash

That's an easy one though; your identity is not an issue and the money (as long as you don't exceed 10k EUR in cash) don't have to be registered leaving the country. Once you arrive you deposit it over time as savings, bonuses or what ever else. It is only if you start turning up with serious money regularly you'll risk getting flagged for it.

jester77

dario28 wrote: »

How does that work when you just walk into a bank in Germany open and account and hand them X amount of money

The bank will want to see your meldebescheinigung (registration with the local amt) before opening an account.

W123-80's

Thanks Nody.

I dunno why I thought it might be illegal, just figured there would be some daft rule or other preventing me transferring cash this way.!

Is it possible to set up German Bank account in a German Bank without actually going over. Apologies if that is a stupid question.

Nody

W123-80's wrote: »

Thanks Nody.

I dunno why I thought it might be illegal, just figured there would be some daft rule or other preventing me transferring cash this way.!

Is it possible to set up German Bank account in a German Bank without actually going over. Apologies if that is a stupid question.

Quick google appears to insist on a certification of id (which does not need to be done at the bank but at an list of locations) done locally and proof of address (utility bills).

A quick Ryanair flight could sort that one out I'd guess (and allow you to do an initial deposit).

Atilathehun

average_runner wrote: »

Hi All;


I have a lump sum in euro and think i should switch to something else instead of euro?


If i choose sterling/dollar, will sterling lose alot of value too if euro goes?

Should i move all the lump sum or just 50%?

Not looking for smart answers jsut some solid advice?

Thanks a million

Go to your bank tomorrow, and ask the following question.

If I want to purchase £10k sterling, how much will it cost in € ?

Then ask the following question.

If I buy the £10k sterling, and change my mind one minute after the transaction is complete, how many € will you give me for the £10k sterling?

The answer will seriously concentrate your mind before converting to a foreigh currency.


On the above transaction you would lose approximately €1k!!!!
The rate at which the bank will sell foreign currency to you and the rate at which they will buy it from you, are two very differnt things. You get creamed in the process:o

Check it out!

uncle_sam_ie

I don't see why one ounce gold coins are such a bad way to go. They can easily be sold on e-bay or to a reputable coin dealer if you need the cash.

NWPat

Just a small word of caution with regard to gold. Italy has 2,500 tons of gold, the most of any European country, they may well have to sell it. If this comes to pass the market price of gold will drop.

irishh_bob

Atilathehun wrote: »

Go to your bank tomorrow, and ask the following question.

If I want to purchase £10k sterling, how much will it cost in € ?

Then ask the following question.

If I buy the £10k sterling, and change my mind one minute after the transaction is complete, how many € will you give me for the £10k sterling?

The answer will seriously concentrate your mind before converting to a foreigh currency.


On the above transaction you would lose approximately €1k!!!!
The rate at which the bank will sell foreign currency to you and the rate at which they will buy it from you, are two very differnt things. You get creamed in the process:o

Check it out!

thier are cheaper ways of transfering money from one currency to another than using your local bank , transfermate in dublin charge less than half what the banks take off you

irishh_bob

NWPat wrote: »

Just a small word of caution with regard to gold. Italy has 2,500 tons of gold, the most of any European country, they may well have to sell it. If this comes to pass the market price of gold will drop.

what makes you think they wouldnt find a buyer ?

enda_4

Permabear wrote: »

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What about Holland?

bbsrs

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

What about Austria?

NIMAN

Surely holding all your savings in any currency is dangerous?

And surely holding your savings in 2, 3, 4, 5 different currencies is dangerous too?

I am no expert but if the Euro implodes then will it not follow that Sterling, the Dollar etc will suffer as well?

Would it not be better to diversify and try to hold your wealth in a selection of different things such as cash, property, gold, shares etc?

hmmm

Whatever else you do (and this crisis is madly overblown by the Irish media and celebrity economists), do not turn all your money into gold.

NIMAN

Is there a gold bubble? Just like the property bubble?

I'm sure out there somewhere there's people who will make a killing if the price of gold falls, as they have bet on it.

hmmm

NIMAN wrote: »

Is there a gold bubble? Just like the property bubble?

Maybe, maybe not, which is the point. Diversification has always been and always will be a fundamental tenet of investing, so don't put all your eggs in one basket.

uncle_sam_ie

They said gold was in a bubble when it hit 1000 euro.

strandroad

Have transfermate, have account abroad in Polish zloty. Apparently Merkel&Sarkozy will be rolling something out on Monday. Do I press this button or not...

hmmm

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

They said gold was in a bubble when it hit 1000 euro.

It still makes no sense for anyone to put all their money in a single asset.

For the record, personally I think gold is a bubble (or more specifically, a ponzi scheme).

hmmm

mhge wrote: »

Apparently Merkel&Sarkozy will be rolling something out on Monday.

Who told you that? What will they be rolling out? Fundamental Eurozone treaty change and an agreement by the ECB to backstop Eurozone government debt? Because that is the endgame, and it's several months away.

Crazy Horse 6

hmmm wrote: »

Who told you that? What will they be rolling out? Fundamental Eurozone treaty change and an agreement by the ECB to backstop Eurozone government debt? Because that is the endgame, and it's several months away.

We have'nt got months. We have weeks.

hmmm

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

We have'nt got months. We have weeks.

What do you mean "we"? Weeks for what?

The Irish news coverage of this has been rubbish, too many celebrity economists needing to justify their weekly cheques by publishing sensational pieces.

What do you think happens in "weeks" that brings down the Euro?

This will drag on for weeks, months and possibly even years. At the end, we'll see closer fiscal union and an ECB backstop. Possibly one or two weaker countries will leave, with the assistance of the stronger countries. We might be in that group, but nothing is about to happen overnight.

strandroad

hmmm wrote: »

Who told you that? What will they be rolling out? Fundamental Eurozone treaty change and an agreement by the ECB to backstop Eurozone government debt? Because that is the endgame, and it's several months away.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15991031

In a major speech in the port of Toulon, Mr Sarkozy said he and the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, would meet on Monday to propose measures to "guarantee the future of Europe".
He warned that economic convergence would be long and difficult.
But he promised that France would not give up its sovereignty.
He said the euro could not continue to exist unless eurozone economies pulled together.
Europe had to be "refounded" he said, with France and Germany at its heart to ensure "a zone of stability".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/01/us-eurozone-france-idUSTRE7B014O20111201

Sarkozy said he would meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Paris on Monday to push ahead with joint proposals for a new EU treaty to fix flaws in the Maastricht Treaty and create a true economic government for the bloc.

He said France and every other euro zone country needed to enshrine a budget-balancing "golden rule" in their constitutions, to force stricter fiscal discipline as the bloc strives to reform itself or get left behind.

He also said the European Central Bank must stay independent and decide for itself when to act against the risk of deflation.

hmmm

M&S have met several times in the past few months. The next EU summit isn't until the 8th/9th of December, nothing is going to be formally agreed before then.

Icepick

mhge wrote: »

have account abroad in Polish zloty..

not this
http://www.google.com/finance?q=PLNEUR

2k9cian2k9

Gold , the price is only going to increase

strandroad

Icepick wrote: »

not this
http://www.google.com/finance?q=PLNEUR

PLN is very weak against EUR now but I am thinking about the Ireland leaving euro scenario. I can get a lot of PLN for my euro, keep it in 4% saving account and since I will need this money in Ireland at some stage it would buy me more punt then I could get from a forced euro to punt conversion if I kept it here. Possibly. Or am I panicking?

hmmm

2k9cian2k9 wrote: »

Gold , the price is only going to increase

Did you say the same to people in September when the price was close to $1900? What did you say to them later that month after it fell nearly 20%?

dissed doc

average_runner wrote: »

Hi All;


I have a lump sum in euro and think i should switch to something else instead of euro?


If i choose sterling/dollar, will sterling lose alot of value too if euro goes?

Should i move all the lump sum or just 50%?

Not looking for smart answers jsut some solid advice?

Thanks a million

Sterling: has lost around 20-25% of it's value compared to the euro over the past decade

US Dollar: Has lost 35% of it's value to the euro over the past decade

The euro is the currency of some of the strongest economies in the world like Germany and Netherlands - and is the main currency in the half billion person european union (350 million of the 500 million citizens). The eurozone GDP is around the same size as the US, and the EU economy itself is significantly larger than any other area on the planet including the US.

But sure, ignore the trend. The Daily Express know what's up The euro is finished and so is "europe".

My advice: learn how to read the news that doesn't come from the UK. It is being described in the english speaking news as a crisiscrisisCRISIS but the reality is that it doesn't or won't "end" one day, except maybe after Christmas. This path has taken 50 years, it's not going to be moved anywhere except slow further integration of european countries and that will take ....forever, bit by bit.

Deliverance

Permabear wrote: »

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So we should hand over everything to the Germans unconditionally?

hmmm

mhge wrote: »

PLN is very weak against EUR now but I am thinking about the Ireland leaving euro scenario. I can get a lot of PLN for my euro, keep it in 4% saving account and since I will need this money in Ireland at some stage it would buy me more punt then I could get from a forced euro to punt conversion if I kept it here. Possibly. Or am I panicking?

You're probably panicking. I'd ignore the deposit rates on foreign currencies, they should be baked into the exchange rate (e.g. I'm sure you could get 100% a year in Zimbabwean whatsits, but that's due to the currency devaluing).

If I was going to move (some) money to a foreign currency, I'd probably look at the major currencies only where hopefully exchange rate movements would not be too large. Zloty/Euro has ranged from 3.20 to 4.80 over the past few years.

uncle_sam_ie

hmmm wrote: »

It still makes no sense for anyone to put all their money in a single asset.

For the record, personally I think gold is a bubble (or more specifically, a ponzi scheme).

I never said you should put your eggs all in one basket. And, your perfectly entitled to your opinion that the crisis is over blown and gold is in a bubble. I don't agree but that's mine.

Deliverance

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I don't see why one ounce gold coins are such a bad way to go. They can easily be sold on e-bay or to a reputable coin dealer if you need the cash.

You buy the coins at less than face value in the hope that the value of the gold contained within the coin and the value of the coin itself will increase over time. Very very bad investment idea. Do not do it.

Deliverance

People looking for investment in metals like gold, silver etc should do extensive research into this area before putting their money into this area. Various metals have for some reason risen in price more than gold has.

A point in fact for this is and has been the unfortunate robbing of roadside works of art that were made of bronze and other metals? Ask any travellor what metal is making the most cash and they can advise you as such. They are a very resourceful people;)

uncle_sam_ie

Deliverance wrote: »

You buy the coins at less than face value in the hope that the value of the gold contained within the coin and the value of the coin itself will increase over time. Very very bad investment idea. Do not do it.

I'm talking about 1 ounce gold Eagles,Maple leafs or Krugerrands. Gold is a good store of value if things go really bad. Which they could.

happywithlife

was told today to buy aussie dollars - anything european would be affected by contagian (sp?)
but the aussies could/do a lot a trade with china so their currency should hold its value
would be nice info if i wasn't in the red already:(

Deliverance

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I'm talking about 1 ounce gold Eagles,Maple leafs or Krugerrands. Gold is a good store of value if things go really bad. Which they could.

I did some researh months ago into investing my cash. The coins contain an amount of gold, the conclusion was that the coins are a long term investment and not worth it in the short term unless you have a substantial amount of money.

Krugerrands are bought at a loss in the hope that the value of the coin will increase over time due to the gold and the value of the coin itself. Seriously though for your own sake do some extensive research before going this route, I did and I decided not to buy gold or coins as a result.

Glenbhoy

Imo (and it's a very humble and probably ill-informed opinion), the chances of a euro collapse are nowhere near as high as people are making out.

A crisis such as this has the effect of focusing minds, there is a solution (of sorts) and at some stage shortly the germans will see that it is actually the only option. There will be no winners if the euro collapses, it would be almost as disastrous for germany as it would be for ireland. They would no longer have a market for their goods, their goods would become massively expensive to the rest of the world and in all likelihood the many external creditors of German banks (for example Ireland, Greece, Spain etc) would default.

There seems to be a lot of confusion as to how euros would be exchanged into a local currency in the event of a collapse, for example, what about euro notes? How would these be exchanged, I have seen it said that the notes would be exchanged into the currency of the country of origin (they have a serial number identifying them apparently), but would that make sense?? Surely the whole point of the single currency was that it was acceptable throughout the zone, therefore my irish notes could well be circulating in Germany as of now, I was there 2 weeks ago and spent at least €500 which I had brought with me in cash, are there going to be a few disappointed german shopkeepers when they go down to their local bank? Perhaps a black market will develop across europe wherein we sell our notes to brokers to have exchanged in Germany? It's all a bit unclear to me and it's another reason as to why I think the euro will be saved.

And finally, the various schemes I have heard as to how to protect the value of one's money make little sense, there's far too much currency risk (and that just presuming that the euro survives), if it doesn't does anyone really have a clue as to what the effect on stg, dollars etc will be? If the euro goes the catastrophe will spread far beyond the eurozone and to be honest, I think it will matter little what you've done to safeguard your few quid as you may have more pressing matters concerning you, such as how exactly are you going to hide that last tin of beans from your neighbours!!!!

Glenbhoy

One more thing, I have been monitoring the euro exchange rates reasonably closely for about 3 years now, the current rate v the dollar is pretty much the same as it was at this time 2008, iirc in that time it has reached a low of about $1.19 to the euro and a peak (summer 08) of about $1.60 to the euro. If the euro was really about to fail, would those people who make a living out of currency trading value it so highly? Given the uncertainty surrounding it, would the value not have collapsed by this stage? Of course some of the reasons why it hasn't crashed are that they have so little faith in the other major currencies which as we know have been printing money like it's going out of fashion.

Achtung! Bono

Glenbhoy wrote: »

Imo (and it's a very humble and probably ill-informed opinion), the chances of a euro collapse are nowhere near as high as people are making out.

A crisis such as this has the effect of focusing minds, there is a solution (of sorts) and at some stage shortly the germans will see that it is actually the only option. There will be no winners if the euro collapses, it would be almost as disastrous for germany as it would be for ireland. They would no longer have a market for their goods, their goods would become massively expensive to the rest of the world and in all likelihood the many external creditors of German banks (for example Ireland, Greece, Spain etc) would default.

There seems to be a lot of confusion as to how euros would be exchanged into a local currency in the event of a collapse, for example, what about euro notes? How would these be exchanged, I have seen it said that the notes would be exchanged into the currency of the country of origin (they have a serial number identifying them apparently), but would that make sense?? Surely the whole point of the single currency was that it was acceptable throughout the zone, therefore my irish notes could well be circulating in Germany as of now, I was there 2 weeks ago and spent at least €500 which I had brought with me in cash, are there going to be a few disappointed german shopkeepers when they go down to their local bank? Perhaps a black market will develop across europe wherein we sell our notes to brokers to have exchanged in Germany? It's all a bit unclear to me and it's another reason as to why I think the euro will be saved.

And finally, the various schemes I have heard as to how to protect the value of one's money make little sense, there's far too much currency risk (and that just presuming that the euro survives), if it doesn't does anyone really have a clue as to what the effect on stg, dollars etc will be? If the euro goes the catastrophe will spread far beyond the eurozone and to be honest, I think it will matter little what you've done to safeguard your few quid as you may have more pressing matters concerning you, such as how exactly are you going to hide that last tin of beans from your neighbours!!!!

Great post. Mmhh!! Now where can i hide these beans?

Glenbhoy

Just a little addendum to my first post.

The thinking at the moment is that bank accounts would simply be converted to the new currency of the country in which they now reside.

Imo that would have a rather dubious legal standing and is actually a little illogical and probably unconstitutional (although of course, I'm not sure that we actually have a european constitution, despite Bertie's claims to have virtually written it himself). What about corporations and their bank accounts? What about the billions that large corporations have on deposit at the ECB at present? What country's currency would they get? Will companies selling products in Greece start shipping the money out every time a sale is made?

One final thing, if you really want your savings to retain value after a euro-breakup, the most sensible thing would be to buy an asset, just try and make sure it isn't liable to depreciate too quickly. I suppose that rules out housing, motor vehicles, hell, most assets bar the auld rifle, that'll surely appreciate;)