Why has Occupy Dame Street failed?

Permabear

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Lapin

Because most of us are simply too concerned about our own day to day lives, jobs, mortgages, children's futures etc, to be worried about a small number of people camping outside banks.

However worthy they may feel their casuse is.

irishh_bob

Permabear wrote: »

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most people are not interested in the radical left wing solutions they offer ( or i presume thats what they are offering )

Jonny7

irishh_bob wrote: »

most people are not interested in the radical left wing solutions they offer ( or i presume thats what they are offering )

Well I've never heard any solutions coming from that movement so far.

Everyone else is too busy being capitalists... i.e. working, consuming.


~38k PA puts you in the top 1% of world earners, half of the people walking by were probably part of the 1% being protested against. When our dole puts you essentially in the top 10 percent of earners worldwide, it's quite hard to listen to someone on it telling you that you're not being generous enough and that your whole attitude must change.

RichardAnd

The following might have something to do with it.

This is occupy wallstreet.

This is occupy Dame street.


The numbers tell a different story. Occupy Wallstreet was like a repeat of when Rage Against the Machine played outside the market building. Perhaps we just need an Irish Rage?

Anyway, they tried. They got off their asses and did something rather than whining and doing little. That's more than most will ever do.

Godge

Once the Occupy Dame St people added "Give us back our oil" to the list of their demands, it was clear to most sensible people that they had been infiltrated by the irrational left-wing protests typical of movements like the Shell to Sea campaign.

I am waiting for the more detailed proposals to come out. I expect them to include job-work schemes like rerouting the M3 away from Tara, planting trees in the Glen of the Downs, building a radiation shield to protect Dundalk from Sellafield, preserving the Kildare and Galway snails (is it snails or some other small pest preventing the Galway outer ring?). I am probably missing a few ideas there.

The tired slogan in relation to the oil which was one of the first demands immediately gave the impression of "the usual brigade" which served to turn off most. It doesn't matter whether that impression was true or not, it was what counted and most people are now ignoring Occupy Dame St.

Scofflaw

Godge wrote: »

Once the Occupy Dame St people added "Give us back our oil" to the list of their demands, it was clear to most sensible people that they had been infiltrated by the irrational left-wing protests typical of movements like the Shell to Sea campaign.

I am waiting for the more detailed proposals to come out. I expect them to include job-work schemes like rerouting the M3 away from Tara, planting trees in the Glen of the Downs, building a radiation shield to protect Dundalk from Sellafield, preserving the Kildare and Galway snails (is it snails or some other small pest preventing the Galway outer ring?). I am probably missing a few ideas there.

The tired slogan in relation to the oil which was one of the first demands immediately gave the impression of "the usual brigade" which served to turn off most. It doesn't matter whether that impression was true or not, it was what counted and most people are now ignoring Occupy Dame St.

Sure - the moment that one came up it said loud and clear "don't expect anything rational or useful here" - the "alternative solutions" Occupy Dame Street will come up with will be the standard "alternative solutions", and will not be paying any attention to reality.

Anyway, they tried. They got off their asses and did something rather than whining and doing little. That's more than most will ever do.

Unfortunately, almost any amount of action can be rendered pointless or even counter-productive by an absence of thought.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Wibbs

Godge wrote: »

The tired slogan in relation to the oil which was one of the first demands immediately gave the impression of "the usual brigade" which served to turn off most. It doesn't matter whether that impression was true or not, it was what counted and most people are now ignoring Occupy Dame St.

This pretty much. And their plans from what I could make out of them. Hell I'll be right behind a revolution. I'l man the barricades, but show me/the rest of us the plan. The plan that actually changes things in a practical way, not some half baked musing beloved of right on students and hippies. If you don't have one, you're just as much a part of the problem as any solution IMHO.

However, I do agree with RichardAnd, they at least did something, even if I see bugger all coming from it.

hatrickpatrick

As a nation, we have become very resigned. We accept the boot of oppression on our necks without questioning it.

If Ireland was ruled by Britain today, and it was up the the current generation of Irish people to get rid of them, I'm almost certain it wouldn't happen. A tiny fringe would try to do something, and the rest of the country would laugh at them and call them hippies.

RichardAnd

RichardAnd wrote: »

This is occupy Dame street.

It sure doesn't look like that anytime I'm passing
some signs about an artist's movement, a few sad looking tents and that's all
I have no idea what an artist movement has to do with anything either tbh

Permabear

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hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As a nation, we have become very resigned. We accept the boot of oppression on our necks without questioning it.

The 'boot of oppression'...oh come on. Describe to me just one scenario in your life in which this 'boot of oppression' is felt?

opinion guy

Wibbs wrote: »

However, I do agree with RichardAnd, they at least did something, even if I see bugger all coming from it.

I suppose they did give us a distracting noisy mess to distract us from the eyesore that is the central bank building.


.....forgive my cynicism I just don't see the point of camping outside a building for weeks on end without any kind of aim. Thats just squatting surely ? Yes they have voiced their displeasure but to say what ?

swordofislam

Permabear wrote: »

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When I hear the word entrepreneur I reach for my revolver.
A heroin dealer is an entrepreneur.
A fly tipping bin company will be run by an entrepreneur.
A property developer who bribes a politician and builds a ghost estate is an entrepreneur.

It is much more useful to squat on Dame street than it is to sell heroin, bribe politicians or fly tip rubbish.

opinion guy

swordofislam wrote: »

When I hear the word entrepreneur I reach for my revolver.
A heroin dealer is an entrepreneur.
A fly tipping bin company will be run by an entrepreneur.
A property developer who bribes a politician and builds a ghost estate is an entrepreneur.

It is much more useful to squat on Dame street than it is to sell heroin, bribe politicians or fly tip rubbish.

To be fair I think you have a biased view of what it is to be an entrepreneur. There are plenty of legit law abiding entrepreneurs out there providing quality producst and services and employment.

swordofislam

opinion guy wrote: »

To be fair I think you have a biased view of what it is to be an entrepreneur. There are plenty of legit law abiding entrepreneurs out there providing quality producst and services and employment.

I am sure that there are. What's your point?

Pure Sound

Irish people are too tied down with Mortgages to risk protesting. Even through these bad times we are still relatively well off, ie most people have a roof over their head, can put food on the table, cloth themselves and family, have access to education and access to fresh drinking water - a large proportion of people worldwide don't have this privilage.

It is easier to carry on allowing injustices to happen as at least that way appears to allow Irish people to carry on like normal, if we were to "burn the Bondholders" nobody could even consider to predict the outcome, so basically we are afraid of the unknown. The Occupy Galway albeit small are or were gathering quite a debate amoungst locals so at least it has got people thinking. To call the protests a failure is a bit harsh.

Nodin

Permabear wrote: »

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....well it isn't communism or socialism.

Permabear wrote: »

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Because large left leaning movement in the states are unusual, hence novelty value. Here left wing politics are on the national agenda on occassion. As a result the lack of focus rather than novelty is at the fore and all too apparent.

Boulevardier

The Dame st thing has been starved of publicity. This may partly be their own fault, because they don't seem to be trying very hard to get any. I pass the camp most days on my way to work (no I am NOT in the CB!) and the impression I get is that they are happy to just sit there and wait.

The best thing they could do is provoke the authorities into acting against them. That would arouse a wave of sympathy if handled correctly.

20Cent

The occupy movement is only getting started. Considering the op doesn't even know basic facts about it ie its not anti-Capitalism its a bit early to be claiming its failed. They were there when I passed at lunchtime.

Pure Sound

Boulevardier wrote: »

.
The best thing they could do is provoke the authorities into acting against them. That would arouse a wave of sympathy if handled correctly.

The authorities have acted violently towards the Shell to Sea campaigners but there is very little sympathy towards them. Most people tend to continue to ignore the problem and blame the protesters for it. I don't think that provoking authorities would achieve anything. The Occupy protests are a peaceful protest and should continue to be so.

Godge

swordofislam wrote: »

When I hear the word entrepreneur I reach for my revolver.
A heroin dealer is an entrepreneur.
A fly tipping bin company will be run by an entrepreneur.
A property developer who bribes a politician and builds a ghost estate is an entrepreneur.

It is much more useful to squat on Dame street than it is to sell heroin, bribe politicians or fly tip rubbish.

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, they would have been better off squatting on Dame St. rather than getting out there creating real jobs for people to improve their living standards. Get real.

Godge

We Need Community wrote: »

The authorities have acted violently towards the Shell to Sea campaigners but there is very little sympathy towards them. Most people tend to continue to ignore the problem and blame the protesters for it. I don't think that provoking authorities would achieve anything. The Occupy protests are a peaceful protest and should continue to be so.

But there is no Shell to Sea problem. It is in the minds of the protesters. That is why Shell to Sea is ignored.

Godge

20Cent wrote: »

The occupy movement is only getting started. Considering the op doesn't even know basic facts about it ie its not anti-Capitalism its a bit early to be claiming its failed. They were there when I passed at lunchtime.

So if it is not anti-capitalism, it must be pro-capitalism. When are they going to start a business and create jobs and economic growth to save the country:rolleyes:?

Permabear

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20Cent

Godge wrote: »

So if it is not anti-capitalism, it must be pro-capitalism. When are they going to start a business and create jobs and economic growth to save the country:rolleyes:?

The get a job meme is very boring and ill informed. Those who use it sound like Fox news hosts and clearly have no interest in having honest debate.

Hayte

The location prevents it from expanding, even if there is political will for the movement to grow. I work just around the corner from ODS and the encampment is hemmed in by 2 roads and a pedestrian access way. The site itself is not much bigger than what you see in the photo and I would estimate it as being roughly 25m x 25m. The pedestrian access is also a ferocious wind tunnel.

The other thing that is sometimes difficult to get to grips with about Dublin if you haven't been there recently or you have never left it, is how small the city centre is compared to London or Manhatten. I used to joke that it is literally impossible to get lost in Dublin because literally all commerce and business is concentrated in 5 kilometre area around O' Connell Street bridge. All you need to know is what 3 landmarks look like (the Spire, Trinity College and the Guinness Brewery) and you already know the Liffey flows from west to east.. There are remote business centres further out like Sandford Industrial Estate and Dundrum but they are surrounded by suburban sprawl.

In general though I am surprised at the lack of political activism in this country. I'm originally from the UK and I attended the protests prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The turn out was immense in Hyde Park. I don't know the exact number but it was hundreds of thousands easily. If you have never been outside Ireland it is difficult to describe the difference in scale.

swordofislam

Godge wrote: »

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Henry Ford, they would have been better off squatting on Dame St. rather than getting out there creating real jobs for people to improve their living standards. Get real.

I don't see your point. Are you accusing Bill Gates of selling heroin, fly tipping or bribing politicians and if so have you any evidence for your claim?

Bigtalker

I tried to go over last week and understand exactly what their point was, what they were fighting for and what they wanted to change. They were singing a song into a camera with a guitar and didnt have time to talk to me. In the last week I worked 6 days and 88 hours in total. I am paying my bills and mortgage and adding to society in the work I do. I am not a drain on society in any manner and do not receive any form of relief from the Government. I find it difficult to sympathise with these people and would certainly get behind an organisation that encouraged ideas on reform and policy changing. I completely understand that there are people in our society who need our help and require benefits and support, however, there is a strong element who believe they have an entitlement to this support where not required and have no intention of adding to society or trying to better themselves in any manner. These are often the most vocal when austerity measures are put in place. It is easy to associate the 'occupy Dame street' protesters with this element.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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In fairness Permabear you have been attacking and mocking Occupy Wall Street since the start and now you say it is having some impact and become part of the national debate! Finished with the laugh stage?

Dame St will be the same.

daithimacgroin

the guards should get in there, get their real names, if they won't give up their real names, arrest them and make em spend a night in the joy. what real names they get, run them through social welfare and whoever is drawing benefits, cut them off from now till eternity.

in a week the occupy dame street will have disappeared....

but the guards would never do that, would they?

they're too busy cashing their overtime cheques which they got from driving around in marked cars in the neighbourhood were all the old people live, taking a wide bypass of Finglas in the process.

20Cent

daithimacgroin wrote: »

the guards should get in there, get their real names, if they won't give up their real names, arrest them and make em spend a night in the joy. what real names they get, run them through social welfare and whoever is drawing benefits, cut them off from now till eternity.

in a week the occupy dame street will have disappeared....

but the guards would never do that, would they?

they're too busy cashing their overtime cheques which they got from driving around in marked cars in the neighbourhood were all the old people live, taking a wide bypass of Finglas in the process.

Why does it seem to offend you so much?
You ok with all that is happening? paying unsecured bonds to hedge funds while attacking the weakest in our society, Nama developers getting paid tax payers money etc etc

einshteen

daithimacgroin wrote: »

the guards should get in there, get their real names, if they won't give up their real names, arrest them and make em spend a night in the joy. what real names they get, run them through social welfare and whoever is drawing benefits, cut them off from now till eternity.

You think we should jail people for peacefully protesting? Fascist.

Pure Sound

Godge wrote: »

But there is no Shell to Sea problem. It is in the minds of the protesters. That is why Shell to Sea is ignored.

So if your neighbourhood was to be destroyed by a multinational company who is going to profit from the Irish peoples loss and putting yours and your families lives at risk you would be fine about it. Not to mention illegal planning operations, corrupt politicians, police brutality, criminal damage and environmental concern.

The people of Erris did not bring the fight, it was forced upon them. I think you should probably read a bit about it before you form an opinion.

Back on topic, it is clear to me that the occupy Ireland groups are working to an extent considering the amount of discussion on this site. I would imagine it has changed quite a few peoples views on how the world works.

Raskolnikov

The majority of Irish people trust the Irish government and are supportive of the IMF bailout, even if it means paying back un-subordinated bondholders. I don't think Irish people believe there is another solution, so they're content to accept their lot.

Permabear

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daithimacgroin

no, i said if they deliberately deceived the guards as to their real identity, they should be made spend a night in a cell

get your facts straight hippy

daithimacgroin

Raskolnikov wrote: »

The majority of Irish people trust the Irish government and are supportive of the IMF bailout, even if it means paying back un-subordinated bondholders..

that's funny

Pure Sound

Raskolnikov wrote: »

The majority of Irish people trust the Irish government and are supportive of the IMF bailout, even if it means paying back un-subordinated bondholders. I don't think Irish people believe there is another solution, so they're content to accept their lot.

I doubt that the majority back the government, I just think that the whole situation is so complex that people don't know what to do so they tend to just go along with it.

daithimacgroin

20Cent wrote: »

Why does it seem to offend you so much?
You ok with all that is happening?

no, cue the jibe about PS overtime for doing sweet FA

Pure Sound

daithimacgroin wrote: »

no, i said if they deliberately deceived the guards as to their real identity, they should be made spend a night in a cell

get your facts straight hippy

Why would the protesters lie about their identity, why should they be arrested?

Raskolnikov

daithimacgroin wrote: »

that's funny

I don't understand.

We voted Fine Gael and Labour in on the basis that they would uphold the terms of the bailout.

daithimacgroin

no, u northern irish boy didn't vote in anyone

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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But in the op you said it is anti-capitalism
As you say its become part of the national debate in the US.

Permabear wrote: »

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Only to people like you who would have no interest in it anyway.

Permabear wrote: »

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Thats what you said about OWS now its part of the National Debate in the US, even Republicans are talking about income inequality. The campaign for the presidency will be fought on totally different issues than if there was no OWS.

Raskolnikov

We Need Community wrote: »

I doubt that the majority back the government, I just think that the whole situation is so complex that people don't know what to do so they tend to just go along with it.

How have you come to that conclusion? All the very recent elections have shown a massive majority of support for candidate or parties who are pro-bailout.

Pure Sound

Raskolnikov wrote: »

I don't understand.

We voted Fine Gael and Labour in on the basis that they would uphold the terms of the bailout.

Most people voted against Fianna Fail and not for Labour and Fine Gael

Raskolnikov

Permabear wrote: »

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Do you disagree with the people of Ballyhea and their protest against paying the bank bondholders?

Crazy Horse 6

Because we as irish people dont care about people who are struggling within our own borders. A friend works in harvey normans in nutgrove and last month they sold more ipads than any other month on record and yet still today as we speak people are afraid to have the heating on because they cant afford it. For shame.

daithimacgroin

most voters were a pack of stupid c***** who though the completely useless opposition might do a better job, despite history telling us it would just be the same old. some voters were being selfish and looking after their own interests, the ones who voted labour.

but the real scum are dunphy and mcwilliams and co who were supposed to form a new political party but chickened out at the last minute...

[MOD]Low quality "grrrr grrr **** raaar!!" post is low quality.[/MOD]

Scofflaw

We Need Community wrote: »

I doubt that the majority back the government, I just think that the whole situation is so complex that people don't know what to do so they tend to just go along with it.

Asked if the Government should continue to comply with the terms and conditions of the bailout, 48% of respondents agreed. One in three disagreed, while 22% had no opinion.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/majority-of-public-want-us-to-obey-bailout-175289.html

cordially,
Scofflaw