O'Leary Supposedly Considering French Move

conf101

From the Independent this morning.

With his contract up for renewal you'd expect this sort of talk anyway but he has dropped down the pecking order in Munster and is off the Ireland radar, for the moment anyway.

HAVING missed out on the World Cup with Ireland and lost his starting place with Munster, scrum-half Tomas O'Leary is considering a move abroad to re-ignite his rugby career.

Sources indicate that preliminary moves are underway to gauge interest in overseas clubs, with a switch to the Top 14 in France a preferred option for O'Leary, whose contract expires at the end of this season.

O'Leary, who turned 28 in October, has won 22 caps for Ireland and was part of the Grand Slam-winning side in 2009, when consistent form earned him selection on the Lions tour before injury prevented him travelling.

Injury problems hindered O'Leary's participation in this year's Six Nations and World Cup warm-up internationals but, having established himself as Ireland's first-choice since 2008, he was a surprise omission from Ireland's 30-man World Cup squad with Conor Murray, who has overtaken O'Leary as first-choice at Munster, joining Eoin Reddan and Isaac Boss as one of the three scrum-halves.

French clubs have been unsuccessful in their pursuit of Ireland players in recent times, with Rob Kearney turning down a reported €500,000 offer from France to stay in Ireland and Jonathan Sexton also rejecting a lucrative offer to switch to the Top 14.

But with O'Leary no longer first choice for province or country, Top 14 clubs such as Castres and Toulon, without a frontline international scrum-half on their books, could use a player like O'Leary.

While the majority of Ireland's World Cup squad were home-based players, a move to the Top 14 would not rule out an international recall for O'Leary. "There is no official policy precluding Ireland selection due to where players are based," said the IRFU. "While the IRFU obviously wants to keep all of our players in Ireland playing for our four provinces, it has not been as issue thus far."

totallegend

conf101 wrote: »

With his contract up for renewal you'd expect this sort of talk anyway but he has dropped down the pecking order in Munster and is off the Ireland radar, for the moment anyway.

Interesting though, is this the first time speculation like this has surfaced in relation to a guy who is first choice neither at provincial or national level? Are the IRFU going to get into a bidding war over a player like that?

Should be pointed out that there is no indication that any French clubs are actually interested in signing him, Toulon and Castres are mentioned but these seem to be plucked out of the air.

thomond2006

Regarding Ireland, you never know with Kidney, he's such a big O'Leary fan that he might well have him at 2nd choice.

As regards a move, I can't see him moving to a top French club.

Wollwead

This has been hinted at in the last few weeks. I remember seeing his post on The Guinness Facebook Supporters Page, where he was commenting on France being a nice place in his short post. It was strategically put in there IMO. It was just after one of the Munster games in France. Sorry folks don't have a link and I had a quick look for it there but can't find it! I swear I ain't going mental!

I remember discussing this at the time with a friend that there could be something on the cards. Fair play to him if he gets a nice move to another country. He might even improve over there given the right situation. Also, he's hardly gonna improve as third choice at Munster.

profitius

I wouldn't mind seeing him go. I don't think he would be in a position to bargain like Heaslip and kearney were either. I think too that with every player hinting at moves to France once thier contract negotiations come up, the IRFU/Provinces might call their bluff and let one or two go.

CatFromHue

He is in a tricky position in that Murray has become first choice and the fans have lost faith in his ability. I've no doubt that he knows this and it has to be effecting him. Murray is also a lot younger than him and with Stringer also in the mix it leaves the Munster No. 9 jersey all over the place.

If he goes fair'd used to him. At the end of the day if he walks out on to Thomond Park and there is 20,000 + people not wanting him there it doesn't matter what the coach says. I'd be looking for somewhere else to play.

I think management should have known not to pick him last season until he got his form back.

conf101

profitius wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing him go. I don't think he would be in a position to bargain like Heaslip and kearney were either. I think too that with every player hinting at moves to France once thier contract negotiations come up, the IRFU/Provinces might call their bluff and let one or two go.

Especially with someone like TOL.

Heaslip, Sexton, Kearney and others have played this game before but they were all nailed on starters when they did. TOL is not.

Who knows, a few seasons in France might do him the world of good.

thomond2006

TOL will have to consider the issue of tax breaks too, if he leaves Ireland now he will never get a contract from a province again.

jacothelad

I think he has been playing well so far this season. His speed to the breakdown is great. He has a versatility that few guys have and is undervalued by nearly everyone. I know this is heresy but I think he is a better option than Murray as yet.

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

I think he has been playing well so far this season. His speed to the breakdown is great. He has a versatility that few guys have and is undervalued by nearly everyone. I know this is heresy but I think he is a better option than Murray as yet.

He looked good enough last weekend anyway. I haven't seen much him other than that.

There is a bit of stigma about him now that people have lost faith in him and it's popular to slag him off nearly. This is unfair and management have to take some responsibility here. He shouldn't have been picked if he wasn't fully fit and back on form. Considering his injuries for Munster when Ireland were at the World Cup he plainly wasn't fit!

thomond2006

He has been good this season all right. However I think it's better for Munster & Ireland if Munster stick with Murray.

Benny Cake

I wouldnt be surprised to see him go, he needs to start at this stage of his carreer... Might do him good in the long run.

Big Nelly

There was a number of articles last year in papers where it said the IRFU may start to let some players move to France etc to save money. It was discussed about Sexton and Heaslip last year as they where demanding high wages and it would allow the IRFU to free up money. Stade where offering 1 million a year to both players.

Not sure what money Sexton and heaslip ended up getting in the end but could we start to see some of the fridge players been moved on to let the young hopeful players more game time?

Just an idea.

CatFromHue

Big Nelly wrote: »

There was a number of articles last year in papers where it said the IRFU may start to let some players move to France etc to save money.

What is sure is that Munster can't have Stringer, TOL, and Murray all on their books at the one time. It doesn't make sense from a business or squad situation to have 3 guys going for the same jersey with also a back up in Williams available.

Stringer's contract is up at the end of the season too.

totallegend

jacothelad wrote: »

I think he has been playing well so far this season. His speed to the breakdown is great. He has a versatility that few guys have and is undervalued by nearly everyone. I know this is heresy but I think he is a better option than Murray as yet.

No-one has ever questioned his speed to the breakdown, it's what happens when he gets there that is the issue; there is no point being quick to the base of the ruck if you then stand there looking at the ball or if your pass isn't snappy enough to keep the team on the front foot. Until O'Leary resolves those issues, he's not going to cut it.

As Big Nelly says above, if the IRFU are serious about deepening the pool of players available to Ireland, this is the sort of opportunity they should grasp with both hands, let's see if Williams is up to the job. Cutting the wage bill never hurt an organisation either...

yimrsg

Big Nelly wrote: »

There was a number of articles last year in papers where it said the IRFU may start to let some players move to France etc to save money. It was discussed about Sexton and Heaslip last year as they where demanding high wages and it would allow the IRFU to free up money. Stade where offering 1 million a year to both players.

Not sure what money Sexton and heaslip ended up getting in the end but could we start to see some of the fridge players been moved on to let the young hopeful players more game time?

Just an idea.

Is it bad I immediately thought of Buckley?

PhatPiggins

O'Leary Supposedly Considering French Move

As a professional rugby player?

death1234567

conf101 wrote: »

Who knows, a few seasons in France might do him the world of good.

Maybe he might learn how to pass without taking 5 steps first.

TheJims

whatever happened to competition for places being healthy for players?? Murray is far from purfect, and TOLs experience is a plus for him! its sad hes kinda after giving up hope of getting the no.9 jersey back for Munster & Ireland and wants to move away n chill out in france..

Big Nelly

yimrsg wrote: »

Is it bad I immediately thought of Buckley?

I was thinking along the lines of JHW, Cillian Willis etc so they can get experience and return

Or older players like Buckley/TOL to get more game time and let younger players get more time. I would guess TOL is on quite big wages?

durkadurka

PhatPiggins wrote: »

O'Leary Supposedly Considering French Move

As a professional rugby player?

You've recycled that gag from barry Murphy!

Chucky the tree

TheJims wrote: »

whatever happened to competition for places being healthy for players?? Murray is far from purfect, and TOLs experience is a plus for him! its sad hes kinda after giving up hope of getting the no.9 jersey back for Munster & Ireland and wants to move away n chill out in france..

I'd hardly call playing in a superior league as chilling out.

PhatPiggins

durkadurka wrote: »

You've recycled that gag from barry Murphy!

:pac::pac: Fair play you've got a good memory though it was probably more apt in Barry Murphy's case.

I think O'Leary would do well in the T14, especially with one of the mid to lower table teams who seem to rely almost soley on the pack

GerM

Big Nelly wrote: »

It was discussed about Sexton and Heaslip last year as they where demanding high wages and it would allow the IRFU to free up money. Stade where offering 1 million a year to both players.

Where do these figures come from? No matter what anyone tells me, I am never going to believe that a bloke who had been first choice for his team for 18 months and 8 or 9 international starts is being offered €1m a year. The highest I had even heard in rumours was half of that.

The salaries in France are often overestimated. Stade's finances were a mess in the past year and they trimmed their budget significantly and saw several of their marquee names leave.

CIARAN_BOYLE

GerM wrote: »

Where do these figures come from? No matter what anyone tells me, I am never going to believe that a bloke who had been first choice for his team for 18 months and 8 or 9 international starts is being offered €1m a year. The highest I had even heard in rumours was half of that.

The salaries in France are often overestimated. Stade's finances were a mess in the past year and they trimmed their budget significantly and saw several of their marquee names leave.

I heard a million but it was a million over three years for Sexton and over two years for Heaslip.

I don't buy a million a year either

JustinDee

GerM wrote: »

Where do these figures come from?

They're simply made up by anonymous folk.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I heard a million but it was a million over three years for Sexton and over two years for Heaslip.

I don't buy a million a year either

Something like that alright, according to:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0204/1224288988634.html
Meh, I'd say it's part speculation, part makey-up and part whatever is leaked by agents...

CIARAN_BOYLE

If Stringer's contract is renewed it could be a sign that the Munster management are willing to let TOL go

Stringer will be 34 in a couple of weeks and seems to be 3rd choice at Munster in my opinion. I doubt he will get another contract unless TOL is leaving in which case he would be hand cover to have.

Another thing to consider is that TOL is centrally contracted and I can't see him being offered another central contract. Will Munster rugby be willing to stick its hand into its own pocket to keep TOL.

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

TOL will have to consider the issue of tax breaks too, if he leaves Ireland now he will never get a contract from a province again.

I'd be very surprised if that was the case. Look at other players who have come back from abroad and managed to back themselves a contract. Damien Browne, Dave Moore, Johne Murphy, Dave Gannon, Eoghan Grace, Frank Murphy. Scrum halves are always in demand. Connacht seem to sign one every year. Ulster don't have a particularly stand out scrum half aside from Pienaar who is an import. Leinster have gone years without developing one and Munster, after Murray, aren't as blessed with them as we might think if TOL was to leave.

I reckon he'd have no issue getting a contract if he was to two years in France and didn't completely disgrace himself.

pickarooney

GerM wrote: »

Where do these figures come from? No matter what anyone tells me, I am never going to believe that a bloke who had been first choice for his team for 18 months and 8 or 9 international starts is being offered €1m a year. The highest I had even heard in rumours was half of that.

The salaries in France are often overestimated. Stade's finances were a mess in the past year and they trimmed their budget significantly and saw several of their marquee names leave.

I read an interesting breakdown of salaries in the top 14 about six months ago in L'Equipe. Salaries are very varied with only the marquee players and specialists getting the kind of money usually bandied about as an 'average' Top 14 salary. Interestingly enough the highest paid position on average was TH, almost double the wages of a LH.

roycon

whoever said kidney "rates" him clearly was not aware that he didnt make the world cup squad behind a 2nd choice leinster scrum half. id definitely want to keep him in ireland. a year of injuries doesnt make you a bad player - 22 caps for ireland a lions call up and a heineken cup winners medal would suggest hes quality. he has played well when hes appeared in every munster match this season. murrays very young and promising but hes still not international standard. played terribly in the world cup quarter final. hes from limerick though , which is far more important than being good

justsomebloke

roycon wrote: »

whoever said kidney "rates" him clearly was not aware that he didnt make the world cup squad behind a 2nd choice leinster scrum half.

ehhh I think the amount of game time given to TOL in the warm up games would disprove your statement

totallegend

roycon wrote: »

whoever said kidney "rates" him clearly was not aware that he didnt make the world cup squad behind a 2nd choice leinster scrum half. id definitely want to keep him in ireland. a year of injuries doesnt make you a bad player - 22 caps for ireland a lions call up and a heineken cup winners medal would suggest hes quality. he has played well when hes appeared in every munster match this season. murrays very young and promising but hes still not international standard. played terribly in the world cup quarter final. hes from limerick though , which is far more important than being good

Make no mistake, Kidney did not want to drop O'Leary for the World Cup but the game against France in Lansdowne forced his hand. It was possibly the worst display by an international scrum-half I have ever seen and if Kidney had persisted with him, it would have made a mockery of the selection process.

His Heineken Cup medal and Lions call-up are history at this stage and should be treated as such. Assuming Murray is on Six Nations duty, O'Leary will get plenty of game time this season so it's up to him to show that he is good enough.

GerM

pickarooney wrote: »

I read an interesting breakdown of salaries in the top 14 about six months ago in L'Equipe. Salaries are very varied with only the marquee players and specialists getting the kind of money usually bandied about as an 'average' Top 14 salary. Interestingly enough the highest paid position on average was TH, almost double the wages of a LH.

It's interesting to see it confirmed but France always prided itself on the scrum and the cornerstone was always seen as the tighthead. It's not just a whimsical observation when they say "The most important player in your squad is the tighthead. The second most important player is the reserve tighthead". Finding a top tighthead is very difficult and a team that doesn't have one is at a significant disadvantage. It's not just the case in France. Hayes was one of the top few highest paid players in the country. Buckley was put on a significant central contract on the basis of potential. Stan Wright was the highest paid player by Leinster. Botha is on big money in Munster. I have no idea about what money Mike Ross is on but on the basis of one 6N campaign, the IRFU locked him down on a central contract. If you can pack down and lock out a scrum you're worth your weight in gold still especially with the focus coming back on scrummaging in recent years.

gb153

I think it would be a good move for him. Tommy Bowe has come on leaps and bounds since his move to Wales and been first choice Irish winger since. Although not a regular first team player Mick O Driscoll also refers to the impact his move to France had on his career.

danthefan

I'm pretty surprised anyone would want to sign him currently.

profitius

For effort and attitude TOL would nearly always score 10/10. For physicality hes up there too. For ability hes average at best. He has an average pass thats inconsistent, slow enough pass and he can't kick. He tries to play at pace but makes too many mistakes because he hasn't the talent to do so.

Mr.Applepie

I would say the only reason TOL wasn't the 1st choice scrumhalf for the RWC was he couldn't shake his back injury. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start a game in the next 6N even though there are at least 3/4 better Scrumhalves.

danthefan

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I would say the only reason TOL wasn't the 1st choice scrumhalf for the RWC was he couldn't shake his back injury. I wouldn't be surprised to see him start a game in the next 6N even though there are at least 3/4 better Scrumhalves.

I refuse to believe that. I've little enough faith in the management as it is, if he was only dropped because he was injured I would despair.

buck65

A month or two ago I would have been happy to let him go but I've seen enough of Tomas this season to suggest that he is coming somewhat back to his best. As said previously he's been consistently crocked and out of form since 2009 and maybe with a run of games, albeit Pro 12 rather than Heineken, I think by next spring he could be seriously challenging Murray for the 9 jersey. (edit : at Munster)
Murray is likely to be away in camp from mid Jan onwards so Tomas would be guaranteed a bit of game time.
Stringer it would seem will do well to get a look in and Munster's game has moved away from a fast passing s.h to a s.h that can pass and break as well. Duncan Williams for me is a Stringer part 2 and will not cut the mustard at Heineken level.
So in conclusion if I was in charge I would keep Tomas and offer Stringer a reduced one year salary.

Mr.Applepie

danthefan wrote: »

I refuse to believe that. I've little enough faith in the management as it is, if he was only dropped because he was injured I would despair.

The thought popped into my head about 2 weeks after the squad was selected and I've come up with nothing that has changed my mind on it.

All one has to do is look at our previous selection policies. Come to the darkside Dan, you'll enjoy it!

CatFromHue

buck65 wrote: »

So in conclusion if I was in charge I would keep Tomas and offer Stringer a reduced one year salary.

Munster would have potentially 3 players who would be playing for the one position and also have Williams as back up. That's 1 too many. Munster need to reduce their scrum halves as it's not sustainable financially or for the players form either.

danthefan

buck65 wrote: »

So in conclusion if I was in charge I would keep Tomas and offer Stringer a reduced one year salary.

I'd be pretty sure TOL has a say in things.

profitius

One of TOL and Stringer will be leaving I'd say. Theres 4 of them there now and a few in the academy.

I think cutting O'Leary loose would be a mistake.

TheJims

Deleted User wrote: »

I think cutting O'Leary loose would be a mistake.

Agreed, i think Stringer is too 1 dimentional and getting on in years, and i certainly dont want our starting 23 to have Murray and D.Williams as the first and second choice scrum halves.. TOL should use the Murray threat to pick up his game like many of the older guys in the Irish provinces have, and duke it out for the 9 jersey

errlloyd

Francis isn't far enough, can't we find him a team in Currie Cup or something.

Benny Cake

errlloyd wrote: »

Francis isn't far enough, can't we find him a team in Currie Cup or something.

Funny stuff, not as funny as your inability to spell though...

errlloyd

Rant at the above poster.

Put my hands up, auto-correct on my phone messed up what was otherwise a perfectly capitalised and punctuated sentence. While resisting txt spk on a 6 inch keyboard I made one small mistake and I am truly sorry. I am a scourge on good grammar, I should be banned from boards.

On topic, to qualify that statement I felt his slow pace and poor passing prevented otherwise exciting backlines from every properly attacking. Ruining the game as a spectacle.

Even if our win percentage with O Leary was 5% higher then with Reddan I think I'd still prefer to watch Reddan and get to watch good rugby.

Benny Cake

So, given the choice, you'd rather lose with Reddan than win with O'Leary?

justsomebloke

Benny Cake wrote: »

Funny stuff, not as funny as your inability to spell though...

Less of that please