Build or buy?

Paulw

Hi folks,

I'm considering a new PC, but, unsure if I should buy parts and build or should I buy a brand PC?

I do a lot of photo processing, some video processing, and play some games. I want something high enough spec that will last me a while.

I'm looking for a good machine, i7 processor, 8-12gb ram, very good graphics (possibly dual cards).

I could butcher my current machine -
take the PSU (Corsair TX 650W PSU)
graphics card (ASUS Nvidia GTX480)
Soundblaster X-FI XTREME GAMER soundcard
hard disks
keyboard/mouse
monitors

I'd need to be pointed in the right direction for a case, motherboard, etc, and where the best place(s) to buy components.

Any advice would be brilliant. I could push my budget up to 1k.

ShadowHearth

biuld all the way m8.

fill this in m8. it will be way easyer to help you out.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74542374

Paulw

1. What is your budget? €1,500 but could push a little more

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Photo/video editing and some gaming (want i7 processor with plenty of ram)

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? Yes

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? yes - hard disks, DVD drive, Corsair TX 650W PSU, ASUS Nvidia GTX480 (would prefer 2x cards)

5. Do you need a monitor? No

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? 2 monitors 1600x1200 - no plan to upgrade

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? No

8. How can you pay? Any method needed - visa, paypal, cheque, cash

9. When are you purchasing? Within 2 months

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? North Dublin

Paulw

What about the following -

motherboard - MSI X79A-GD65 €300
processor - Intel Core i7 3930K 3.2GHz 12MB S2011 €533
CPU cooling - Corsair - Hydro H80 - Liquid Cooling System €91
memory - Corsair Vengeance LP - 16GB 1600MHz PC3-12800 €87
Case - Cooler Master Centurion 5 II €57
Seagate 500GB MomentusXT Hybrid SATA-300 2.5" 7200RPM 32MB €178

video - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480 already have
Power - Corsair TX 650W PSU already have

FlyingIrishMan

Paulw wrote: »

What about the following -

motherboard - MSI X79A-GD65 €300
processor - Intel Core i7 3930K 3.2GHz 12MB S2011 €533
CPU cooling - Corsair - Hydro H80 - Liquid Cooling System €91
memory - Corsair Vengeance LP - 16GB 1600MHz PC3-12800 €87
Case - Cooler Master Centurion 5 II €57
Seagate 500GB MomentusXT Hybrid SATA-300 2.5" 7200RPM 32MB €178

video - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480 already have
Power - Corsair TX 650W PSU already have

You should get an SSD since you have a big budget, perhaps this: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46110&agid=1145

Paulw

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

You should get an SSD since you have a big budget, perhaps this: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46110&agid=1145

While I would like SSD, I need the capacity. I'll probably also need to add a few 3TB disks soon (I do a lot of photography). I figured that the hybrid drive was a good compromise.

ShadowHearth

Paulw wrote: »

While I would like SSD, I need the capacity. I'll probably also need to add a few 3TB disks soon (I do a lot of photography). I figured that the hybrid drive was a good compromise.

No one uses ssd as Main drive bud.

Get ssd and put you os and main programs/games you use. For all your storage use hybrid or normal sata hdd.

Paulw

Yeah, I know the main storage would be a separate drive(s). I just think the cost/benifit from an SSD as opposed to a hybrid drive isn't worth the price.

But, aside from hard drive, does the rest of the spec seem right, and should work together??

ShadowHearth

Paulw wrote: »

Yeah, I know the main storage would be a separate drive(s). I just think the cost/benifit from an SSD as opposed to a hybrid drive isn't worth the price.

But, aside from hard drive, does the rest of the spec seem right, and should work together??

Why don't you just go ssd120ish + normal sata big hdd and ditch the hybrid one?

Don't know much about those series CPU and board. Do you have link to it ? I presume check basics and make sure it has pcie 3.0 USB 3.0 and other usual stuff.

Quite cheapish case for such monster machine? Maybe invest a bit more in to case it self?

Paulw

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Why don't you just go ssd120ish + normal sata big hdd and ditch the hybrid one?

Don't know much about those series CPU and board. Do you have link to it ? I presume check basics and make sure it has pcie 3.0 USB 3.0 and other usual stuff.

Quite cheapish case for such monster machine? Maybe invest a bit more in to case it self?

Yeah, I get what you're talking about. I'll definitely consider it.

board - http://www.msi.com/product/mb/X79A-GD65.html
cpu - http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=52326&agid=1907

Could you maybe recommend a case? It's been a few years since I've done a home build.

I'm open to suggestions/recommendations.

ShadowHearth

Mob is good. All the toys you need.

As for case. I presume you need something not boyracish if you know what I mean.

It's not a gaming pc, so it should be simple and stylish I guess.

Sorry I can't link properly as I am typing this from my phone.

Yesterday I orderedy own system and I took corsair 500R case. It is really simple on the eye and very reasonably priced for what it is. There was a recent thread about cases and I posted it in there with a very very good video review of it. It might be too boyracish for your taste, but that's what I got and I can recommend. I won't recEmond a case that I haven't experience with myself.

Serephucus

I wouldn't bother with X79. Even with video encoding tasks, it's not that much better than a 2600K, and for double the price, and the power consumption? Forget about it. That's not even considering overclocking, which the X79 CPUs seem to suck at, in comparison.

Try something like this...

Item|Price
Total build cost: €945.38 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i7-2600K Tray, LGA1155|€274.80
ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€117.29
16GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz CL9|€71.39
Corsair Hydro Series H100 (Sockel 775/1156/1366/AM2/AM2+/AM3/FM1)|€87.25
Corsair Graphite 600T, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€136.67
MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SB-Version Englisch|€84.74
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€173.24


Very powerful CPU cooler. You might even be able to run that without fans. Perfect case to fit it as well. It performs very well in terms of cooling and, (IMO), it looks bad-ass. :P

While the hybrid drives look nice spec-wise, they're only going to cache a relatively small amount of data. You won't see a speed increase in everything. I should also mention that Seagate have just released an updated version of their XT drives. 750GB model with 8GB SSD cache.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=806&Itemid=60

ShadowHearth

Serephucus wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with X79. Even with video encoding tasks, it's not that much better than a 2600K, and for double the price, and the power consumption? Forget about it. That's not even considering overclocking, which the X79 CPUs seem to suck at, in comparison.

Try something like this...

Item|Price
Total build cost: €945.38 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i7-2600K Tray, LGA1155|€274.80
ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€117.29
16GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz CL9|€71.39
Corsair Hydro Series H100 (Sockel 775/1156/1366/AM2/AM2+/AM3/FM1)|€87.25
Corsair Graphite 600T, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€136.67
MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SB-Version Englisch|€84.74
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€173.24


Very powerful CPU cooler. You might even be able to run that without fans. Perfect case to fit it as well. It performs very well in terms of cooling and, (IMO), it looks bad-ass. :P

While the hybrid drives look nice spec-wise, they're only going to cache a relatively small amount of data. You won't see a speed increase in everything. I should also mention that Seagate have just released an updated version of their XT drives. 750GB model with 8GB SSD cache.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=806&Itemid=60

would that just prove, that 2500k and 2600k are **** up by intel? they gave technology which is way before its time?

Monotype

The only thing that it proves is that their new technology is not impressive because they don't have any pressure on them from AMD.

I definitely go with the 1155 setup instead but I'd save the €2 on the RAM with the less annoying heatspreaders.
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=52085

Serephucus

Monotype wrote: »

The only thing that it proves is that their new technology is not impressive because they don't have any pressure on them from AMD.

I definitely go with the 1155 setup instead but I'd save the €2 on the RAM with the less annoying heatspreaders.
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=52085

Indeed, especially considering AMD's latest strategy. This probably won't change any time soon.

I actually picked that RAM consciously. If he does go for the H100, he won't have to worry about heatsink mounting, but he might need the extra heatspreader as there won't be any incidental airflow from where there would have been a CPU fan.

Paulw

Serephucus wrote: »

I actually picked that RAM consciously. If he does go for the H100, he won't have to worry about heatsink mounting, but he might need the extra heatspreader as there won't be any incidental airflow from where there would have been a CPU fan.

Thanks for the pointers.

I may go for the corsair 500R case, since it has two front USB3 ports.

Also, with the heatsink, is the H100 that much better than the H80? From checking reviews, the H80 should be more than capable for what I'm putting in the case.

I think I'll definitely go with the SSD for the main disk.

nesf

Serephucus wrote: »

Indeed, especially considering AMD's latest strategy. This probably won't change any time soon.

Oh dear, that won't be a good thing for prices.

Eamonn Brophy

Serephucus wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with X79. Even with video encoding tasks, it's not that much better than a 2600K, and for double the price, and the power consumption? Forget about it. That's not even considering overclocking, which the X79 CPUs seem to suck at, in comparison.

Try something like this...

Item|Price
Total build cost: €945.38 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i7-2600K Tray, LGA1155|€274.80
ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€117.29
16GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz CL9|€71.39
Corsair Hydro Series H100 (Sockel 775/1156/1366/AM2/AM2+/AM3/FM1)|€87.25
Corsair Graphite 600T, ATX, ohne Netzteil|€136.67
MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SB-Version Englisch|€84.74
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5")|€173.24

Very powerful CPU cooler. You might even be able to run that without fans. Perfect case to fit it as well. It performs very well in terms of cooling and, (IMO), it looks bad-ass. :P

While the hybrid drives look nice spec-wise, they're only going to cache a relatively small amount of data. You won't see a speed increase in everything. I should also mention that Seagate have just released an updated version of their XT drives. 750GB model with 8GB SSD cache.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=806&Itemid=60

This build is pretty nice but a few points for consideration:

unless you're video editing and stuff, you wont use the hyperthreading of the i7, the 2500k is more than what you need for gaming. You said you were, so **** it, go with the 2700k

with your budget get a gen 3 board that supports SLI and crossfire, you might want a splash a little extra and go for a z68, as it can make use of the integrated graphics chip which is faster for some tasks

Get a wd caviar black as an hdd, you seem to have lots of budget, so get a 2tb.

get an sdd for your os and 1-2 games (m4 is a good bet.)

16 gigs of ram is silly, it's literally a waste of money. 8 is more than anything you'll run will ever need for at least 2-3 years to come. (Saw that you're photo/video editing, is this case you might use it but it would depend on your usage. 8 is still TONS)

You could buy a 2nd 480 for SLI (might need a 700-800 wat psu)

The noctua nh-d14 beats every corsair liquid cooler on bench temerature tests and takes up less room, and it quieter. If you're not overclocking, get a cheaper aftermarket cooler with a silent fan to replace the stock.

With your budget also, buy a full tower for nice airflow.

ShadowHearth

nesf wrote: »

Oh dear, that won't be a good thing for prices.

sorry for oftopic op.

when i made my shoping basket i chose EOM 2500k, but it was out of stock the other day. so i took retail version in to my basket. the next day i was imformed that retail 2500k went up in price by 5£.

i presume it might have something to do with this.

ShadowHearth

OP, you still thinking of your original biuld or new i5 2500k?

if budget is really not an issue i would go with your original biuld with few tweeks mentioned before.


though these 2500k are just briliant bang for your money. You can easily pick up z68 board with all the toys and whistles that original had. pcie 3.0 usb 3.0 and sata III etc.

as far as i understand alot of space is a must for your biuld. saved money could be invested in to bigger ssd+ bigger HDD?

Paulw

I'm much more inclined on the i7, rather than an i5.

I'm definitely going with an SSD for the boot disk, and I've already got 2x1.5TB disks mirrored for my system. I also have a NAS for backup storage of 4x2TB disks, raid5.

Processing power and memory are needed for the large amount of image processing I do.

I currently have a system with 8gb ram, and when editing, I'm easilly hitting 85%-90% usage of memory. So, 16gb will give me more scope. And the machine (core 2 quad Q6600) is crawling when I do a large batch process, so new cpu power is needed.

Thanks for all the great advice guys. Really appreciated.

ShadowHearth

Paulw wrote: »

I'm much more inclined on the i7, rather than an i5.

I'm definitely going with an SSD for the boot disk, and I've already got 2x1.5TB disks mirrored for my system. I also have a NAS for backup storage of 4x2TB disks, raid5.

Processing power and memory are needed for the large amount of image processing I do.

I currently have a system with 8gb ram, and when editing, I'm easilly hitting 85%-90% usage of memory. So, 16gb will give me more scope. And the machine (core 2 quad Q6600) is crawling when I do a large batch process, so new cpu power is needed.

Thanks for all the great advice guys. Really appreciated.

i7 is supported by all mighty Z68. so you sorted.

lets us know how you will get along m8.

nesf

Paulw wrote: »

I'm much more inclined on the i7, rather than an i5.

I'm definitely going with an SSD for the boot disk, and I've already got 2x1.5TB disks mirrored for my system. I also have a NAS for backup storage of 4x2TB disks, raid5.

Processing power and memory are needed for the large amount of image processing I do.

I currently have a system with 8gb ram, and when editing, I'm easilly hitting 85%-90% usage of memory. So, 16gb will give me more scope. And the machine (core 2 quad Q6600) is crawling when I do a large batch process, so new cpu power is needed.

Thanks for all the great advice guys. Really appreciated.

The i7's are absolutely lovely for stuff that can make use out of them. For video conversion and maths modelling I love the i7 I've got in my iMac.

Unfortunately pointless for gaming since the vast majority of games can't make use of the extra logical cores.

Paulw

nesf wrote: »

The i7's are absolutely lovely for stuff that can make use out of them. For video conversion and maths modelling I love the i7 I've got in my iMac.

I've a Dell laptop (i7), a macbook pro (i7) all which are brilliant for bulk image processing. The old desktop is really starting to lag now, and stutter due to the processor.

Thankfully the Adobe applications can make the most of the extra cores and memory.

I can be bulk processing a few hundred images in a go, and tend to go make some food while the PC processes. I use the PC mostly because of the storage (disks) rather than using the laptop.

So, this is pushing me for this new build.

nesf

Paulw wrote: »

I've a Dell laptop (i7), a macbook pro (i7) all which are brilliant for bulk image processing. The old desktop is really starting to lag now, and stutter due to the processor.

Thankfully the Adobe applications can make the most of the extra cores and memory.

I can be bulk processing a few hundred images in a go, and tend to go make some food while the PC processes. I use the PC mostly because of the storage (disks) rather than using the laptop.

So, this is pushing me for this new build.

Then a nice overclocked i7 sounds right. Get a good cooler and you should have both a very quiet PC and excellent processing speeds.

Eamonn Brophy

Paulw wrote: »

I've a Dell laptop (i7), a macbook pro (i7) all which are brilliant for bulk image processing. The old desktop is really starting to lag now, and stutter due to the processor.

Thankfully the Adobe applications can make the most of the extra cores and memory.

I can be bulk processing a few hundred images in a go, and tend to go make some food while the PC processes. I use the PC mostly because of the storage (disks) rather than using the laptop.

So, this is pushing me for this new build.

Go for the 2600k or the 2700k for overclocking and buy a 32gb kit if you're hitting that kind of usage on 8gigs. I'd consider this a workstation build more than a high end gaming build, if you put a graphics card in there it can easily do both.

Paulw

Eamonn Brophy wrote: »

buy a 32gb kit if you're hitting that kind of usage on 8gigs. I'd consider this a workstation build more than a high end gaming build.

I'll start with 16gb of ram and see how that goes. I can always add more later.

Definitely more a workstation than gaming machine. But, I'll do a little gaming too.

Paulw

Well, after much consideration, this is the spec I went with -

Intel Core i7-3930K 3.20GHz S2011 12MB
MSI X79A-GD65 (8D), Intel X79, LGA2011, ATX, DDR3
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 16GB-Kit
Corsair Carbide Series 500R, Black, ATX
Corsair Hydro Series H100
Corsair Enthusiast Series Modular TX750M, 750Watt
OCZ SSD Vertex 2 240GB 8,9cm (3,5")
Seagate 500GB MomentusXT Hybrid SATA3
ASUS ENGTX480/2DI/1536MD5
LiteOn iHBS112-37
MS Windows 7 Pro 64bit SB-Version English

I'll be adding 2x 1.5TB disks too, in a mirrored config for photo storage.

This evening, I'll be busy building it all.

ShadowHearth

gratz m8. you wont be dissapointed with that case.


that will be some monster system there, gl building it!

Serephucus

I'm envious. This is one of those times were I'm tempted to buy a similar build just for bragging rights.

ShadowHearth

Serephucus wrote: »

I'm envious. This is one of those times were I'm tempted to buy a similar build just for bragging rights.

and bigger E-penis

Paulw

Serephucus wrote: »

I'm envious. This is one of those times were I'm tempted to buy a similar build just for bragging rights.

I wanted the Intel Core i7-3960X 3.30GHz S2011 15MB but it was just slightly out of my budget.

One thing I'm considering (for next Christmas) will be to replace the PSU and probably go SLI (depends on what cards are around then).

I'll take some picts during the build and will post up when finished.

Thanks again for the advice from the great people in here. It certainly influenced my decision on many parts.

Paulw

Question about cooling (H100) and the 500R.

My idea for cooling, using the top of the case

======== (radiator)

---

(case)
vvvvvvvvvv (fans pulling air in to the case)

Then at the back of the case, having that as an extractor fan.

Sound logical??

Serephucus

Paulw wrote: »

Question about cooling (H100) and the 500R.

My idea for cooling, using the top of the case

======== (radiator)

---

(case)
vvvvvvvvvv (fans pulling air in to the case)

Then at the back of the case, having that as an extractor fan.

Sound logical??

Not at all!

What you want is:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Airflow
=============== Case
======= - ======= Fans
||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||||||||||||| Radiator

And then use the rear exhaust as an intake. That's the way I had my radiator (RX360) set up, and this was after trying every configuration.

Paulw

But, by your logic, you're pulling warm air from inside the case (heated by GPU, memory, etc) up through the radiator.

My logic is pulling outside cold air through the radiator in to the case.

Hmmm, trial and error I guess. I'll try my way, run a few benchmarks, then try your way, and see which performs best.

I'm probably going to leave the CPU as standard for a few weeks, and then may overclock it. I see it's easy to get it up to 4.6GHz and very stable.

nesf

Paulw wrote: »

But, by your logic, you're pulling warm air from inside the case (heated by GPU, memory, etc) up through the radiator.

My logic is pulling outside cold air through the radiator in to the case.

Hmmm, trial and error I guess. I'll try my way, run a few benchmarks, then try your way, and see which performs best.

I'm probably going to leave the CPU as standard for a few weeks, and then may overclock it. I see it's easy to get it up to 4.6GHz and very stable.

The problem with H series is that for optimal cooling of the CPU you want to pull air in like you describe. The problem is that this raises the air temperature inside your case and interferes with cooling on the GPU and other components (the latter is less important).

In general you want to lower air temperature inside the case if you can, this is why you see a lot of watercooling people recommending having the fans above the H series pulling air out from the case rather than blowing in.


We're only talking small differences in temperature at the CPU depending on which way the fans go anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it and just go for the cooler temperature inside the case to keep the fan level as low as possible on the GPU to keep noise down.