IT Bubble

ki

Does anyone else think we are getting into a IT Bubble.

Any jobs announced over the last couple of months are mainly IT related and a high proportion are IDA/Enterprise Ireland funded.

Hopefully lot of the software is for export, but I don't know.


Any thoughts?

dario28

ki wrote: »

Does anyone else think we are getting into a IT Bubble.

Any jobs announced over the last couple of months are mainly IT related and a high proportion are IDA/Enterprise Ireland funded.

Hopefully lot of the software is for export, but I don't know.


Any thoughts?

Nope place im in has at least 10 English developers that commute weekly.

Took weeks to get a few lads for my team , there is loads of work out there in IT if you know what you are doing

RichardAnd

There hasn't really been that many jobs, a few hundred per month perhaps. There was a bubble in the early 00s but I don't think that's happening now rather, IT is one of the few areas really experiencing growth thus, new jobs being reported will primarily be IT related.

What does seem to be happening however, is that IT is gaining a reputation akin to construction areas back in the early boom days. That it to say, the belief is taking root that studying IT is the path to gainful employment. The surge in points for IT courses shows that many young people are being steered into the field. If indeed another dot com crash happened, it could very well result in a thousands of graduates being unemployable, exactly the same outcome of the state pimping of the construction industry.

My advice to anyone looking at IT is that it really isn't the field for everyone. Only certain people have the mindset for computers and the competition is fierce.

Boskowski

I'm in IT since coming out of college mid nineties. Ever since we had a significant shortage of IT resources in every country I worked with/in every single year.

The IT sector is one of the few genuine strongholds.

As it happens my company is recruiting and it is very difficult to find people with genuine experience. We're not even having outlandish expectations.

JJJJNR

IT here is just growing at a steady rate, there hasn't been a huge increase in new jobs, its been fairly steady for the past 3 - 4yrs. I think cloud computing is a bubble though.

ednwireland

the first IT bubble was down to people thinking you could run a companie by spending venture capital and hoping sales would come along (remeber burn rates anyone), whats happening now seems to be different in that businesses are making and selling and need more people (we are recruiting ourselves)

if you hear burn rates though, run a mile

sharper

Based on the number of financials I see hiring IT staff I think a good percentage of the current demand is being fuelled by the various attempts to print money. So I don't think there's an IT bubble as such but it likely is being affected by one in a field which consumes its services.

I am pie

Does everyone understand what a bubble is ?

The prices of the output of IT effort in this country (i.e. the 'product' ) are not massively inflating to an unsubstainable level based on no real or tangible value.

There is a genuine skills shortage, and while Ireland remains a good place to be in business for IT companies there will continue to be a shortage. It's not forever, and we have to sensible and responsible in terms of the wages offered (to maintain competitiveness).

BostonB

ki wrote: »

...Any thoughts?

I'm thinking perhaps you could explain what you mean better.

The IT industry isn't training many people up, especially in new technologies. Its only hiring experienced people and contracting out work. As a result its caused its own shortfall in experienced staff. You can't reap what you don't sow. This of course is no good to you if you graduate from college, as you've no experience. But if you are a really good developer, with some good projects to demo your coding skills you'll have no problem.

Boom and bust is normal in IT. The last bubble, wasn't really about jobs, it was about venture capital as was said earlier. When it burst, most IT staff still had work. With the exception of the web design which had too many in it.

antoobrien

JJJJNR wrote: »

I think cloud computing is a bubble though.

Could isn't a bubble, it's a marketing tool. It's been around under various guises since the start of the public internet - the original Application Server (now office online & google docs), grid, various online & enterprise apps and now online storage & infrastructure (wait isn't that grid again).

Yahew

I am pie wrote: »

Does everyone understand what a bubble is ?

The prices of the output of IT effort in this country (i.e. the 'product' ) are not massively inflating to an unsubstainable level based on no real or tangible value.

There is a genuine skills shortage, and while Ireland remains a good place to be in business for IT companies there will continue to be a shortage. It's not forever, and we have to sensible and responsible in terms of the wages offered (to maintain competitiveness).

Its a boom, not a bubble. The original (2000) bubble was only a partly a bubble - as say compared to real estate, or tulips - as some companies did make money from it, and some lost big time. When the dust cleared Amazon were still there.

( If there is a bubble it might be in mobile apps).

robd

RichardAnd wrote: »

My advice to anyone looking at IT is that it really isn't the field for everyone. Only certain people have the mindset for computers and the competition is fierce.

In fairness most computer courses weed out those that IT just isn't for. The drop out rates are typically > 50%. Those coming out the end then have a choice as to a wide range of areas. Less technical people can go down the project or business analysis route rather than programming. IT is a very wide area from phone support, to PC installation, to network admin, to web developing to server programming, etc. etc. etc.

srsly78

OP what you don't get is IT permeates most other industries. There is very little IT in isolation. Many software engineers for example wouldn't count themselves as working in IT, rather they work in science or media or finance or whatever.

As a software engineer myself I find it quite shocking how misunderstood it is. Have heard things like "well you can't eat software" :P Barring world war 3 and the collapse of civilisation there will be more IT in the future.

But yes, there are some bubbles around, mobile apps as mentioned above. 99% of mobile developers earn feck all, so it's kinda funny watching more people try to jump on the bandwagon (see boards development forum for comedy).

robd

antoobrien wrote: »

Could isn't a bubble, it's a marketing tool. It's been around under various guises since the start of the public internet - the original Application Server (now office online & google docs), grid, various online & enterprise apps and now online storage & infrastructure (wait isn't that grid again).

You said pretty much what I wanted to say. Yes it's just a marketing term. Takes a techie to know that though.

BostonB

The cloud is over stated. Not everything should be on the cloud.

robd

I am pie wrote: »

Does everyone understand what a bubble is ?

The prices of the output of IT effort in this country (i.e. the 'product' ) are not massively inflating to an unsubstainable level based on no real or tangible value.

Indeed. Permanent rates came down about 15% and contract about 30% due to recession. Combined with lack of graduates from mid 2000s onwards as computers wasn't sexy enough and increasing multinational presence in Ireland there is a skills shortage. People not so interested in moving due to reduced pay. Gap was filled by influx of East Europeans for a few years but Ireland is off most peoples radar due to property crash and related reports around Europe.

jmayo

BostonB wrote: »

...
Boom and bust is normal in IT. The last bubble, wasn't really about jobs, it was about venture capital as was said earlier. When it burst, most IT staff still had work. With the exception of the web design which had too many in it.

It wasn't just web design, trust me on that.
A lot of other good people had moved to companies that were tied in with the whole dotcom/telecoms bubble.
Ever heard of the likes of Trintech, Baltimore, WorldPort, etc.
These either shed jobs or closed.

antoobrien wrote: »

Could isn't a bubble, it's a marketing tool. It's been around under various guises since the start of the public internet - the original Application Server (now office online & google docs), grid, various online & enterprise apps and now online storage & infrastructure (wait isn't that grid again).

Another buzz word that has been adopted by eejits.

robd wrote: »

In fairness most computer courses weed out those that IT just isn't for. The drop out rates are typically > 50%.

I don't think that is true.
From experience I have seen some computer related courses getting easier and far from satisfactory graduates result.
In late 90s there were whole slew of graduate diploma courses and the like "converting" people into IT related "experts".
Most were people who had qualified in other areas and were not interested in IT but just getting a job.

BostonB wrote: »

The cloud is over stated. Not everything should be on the cloud.

It certainly is in this country where our broadband and telecoms infrastructure is pure sh**e.
Knowledge economy me ar**. :mad:

JJJJNR

antoobrien wrote: »

Could isn't a bubble, it's a marketing tool. It's been around under various guises since the start of the public internet - the original Application Server (now office online & google docs), grid, various online & enterprise apps and now online storage & infrastructure (wait isn't that grid again).

The cloud is not a marketing tool, its a marketing buzz word, the cloud has a whole industry being build around it, the is part due to mobile tech boom, cloud computing stocks are up 80%, IBM has gone from investing 0 dollars to investing 6 billion in the cloud.

"The Cloud" is a bubble.

robd

jmayo wrote: »

I don't think that is true.
From experience I have seen some computer related courses getting easier and far from satisfactory graduates result.
In late 90s there were whole slew of graduate diploma courses and the like "converting" people into IT related "experts".
Most were people who had qualified in other areas and were not interested in IT but just getting a job.

I agree on the graduate diploma courses but drop out rates on degree courses are actually still that high. There are far from satisfactory graduates from just about every course, that's life I'm afraid.

I had a policy of refusing to interview candidates from graduate diploma conversion courses. This was for high-end programming of server-side java distributed systems. People with these course in general don't have the core knowledge required to work as this level. Some with a related physics or engineering background can, but you shouldn't need a conversion diploma then. I myself am engineering not computers.

Of course my now ex boss in said place had one of those graduate diplomas with a business primary degree. To say he was desperate was an understatement. He was neither a good manager nor a good technical person.

Thankfully those graduate diplomas are not so prevalent these days.

Yahew

jmayo wrote: »

In late 90s there were whole slew of graduate diploma courses and the like "converting" people into IT related "experts".
Most were people who had qualified in other areas and were not interested in IT but just getting a job.
:

Well, maybe. On the other hand I wouldn't kick someone out of an interview who had a strong mathematics, science or engineering degree and did one of these conversion courses. Google don't actually care about anybody having a computer science degree, they would prefer to hire maths PHds. ( Learn the coding on the job).

COYW

I work in the sector and things are going well at the moment. There is a serious shortage of staff at the higher end of the market. The standard of graduate in Computer Science is declining year on year and companies will continue to seek staff abroad until this trend alters. Judging by the results in Science and Mathematics in the LC, that won't happen for a good few years.

ki

Yahew wrote: »

( If there is a bubble it might be in mobile apps).

srsly78 wrote: »

But yes, there are some bubbles around, mobile apps as mentioned above. 99% of mobile developers earn feck all, so it's kinda funny watching more people try to jump on the bandwagon (see boards development forum for comedy).

I think that's more what I was trying to say, the core of IT Development/Hardware is almost bust proof but its the areas surrounding it.

For example: A five year old writing an app and selling it.
If a 5 year old can do it then it is not really a job, or at least an area I don't want to be in.

Or Cloud. Yes there is a need and want for this but outside of the Big Guys (Google/Apple/etc) is there enough space for all the others starting up maybe 2 or 3 will make it.

Yahew

Writing a serious app on a mobile device is about as hard, if not harder ( given the memory constraints you need to worry about) as a desktop UI app. A mac app and a iOS app would contain similar code; either can include C, Objective C and C++ ( and i have used all three on both platforms).

Sure there are kits to do the simple stuff. There are kits to do websites and servers but they are not used by Amazon. At its most complex, mobile development is as tough as anything else.

I see contract rates in London at around £400-£500.

( Of course given how trivial simple apps are the difference in quality is huge in that industry. Just look at what Apple themselves produce for the iPad- garageband - compared to most other stuff).


In any case the cream is beginning to rise to the top, as it always does.

Gurgle

Yahew wrote: »

Writing a serious app on a mobile device is about as hard, if not harder ( given the memory constraints you need to worry about) as a desktop UI app.

Sure it is. Now.
Give it a couple of years, we'll all be able to download an app builder that reduces 6 weeks of coding to 6 minutes of drag & drop.

Same as what happened to dot.com, remember when there were software engineers who's area of expertise was html code :b.

average_runner

There is more jobs in IT than people in IT.
Took our place along time to find the staff we needed, same with other companies.

My adivce to graduates that are looking, ensure you have a good current project that is keeping your skills fresh.


Money in IT is not what it was in early 2000 but its a job

Yahew

Gurgle wrote: »

Sure it is. Now.
Give it a couple of years, we'll all be able to download an app builder that reduces 6 weeks of coding to 6 minutes of drag & drop.

Same as what happened to dot.com, remember when there were software engineers who's area of expertise was html code :b.

Those app builders already exist, presumably the 5 year old used one.

Faking writing functional turning compatible C code is not like faking HTML. If App Builders work for Mobiles then they will work for desktops, and certainly for websites, and why not for database design, and we will all be out of a job.

If in doubt look at the best mobile apps - Garageband, Economist, Games and so on. Not less complicated than any desktop app. So if you think that app builders will replace programmers on mobiles you should get a career change whatever you are working on.

Raekwon

IT is a huge area so saying that there is a current boom in IT is very misleading.

IME there are lots of roles available in development (Java & .Net especially) but on the flip-side there are very few System Administration/Network Support roles available.

Also plenty of companies have merged roles and employers are now looking for individuals who are willing to multi-task various different roles within the IT department, usually for an average industrial wage or less.

BostonB

jmayo wrote: »

It wasn't just web design, trust me on that.
A lot of other good people had moved to companies that were tied in with the whole dotcom/telecoms bubble.
Ever heard of the likes of Trintech, Baltimore, WorldPort, etc.
These either shed jobs or closed.

I kinda meant it was only web designers that were in oversupply. Most other people in development wouldn't have too much trouble finding work. But web designers were in a race to the bottom.

jmayo wrote: »

It certainly is in this country where our broadband and telecoms infrastructure is pure sh**e.
Knowledge economy me ar**. :mad:

True. I kinda meant people are building complex web apps that simply replicate far more robust traditional client server apps that were vastly simpler to develop and maintain. Theres a place for cloud solutions. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Gurgle

Yahew wrote: »

So if you think that app builders will replace programmers on mobiles you should get a career change whatever you are working on.

Ooooooohhh.... bitchslap that or smile and move on.....

I'm not expecting the IT industry to come crashing down, but when you start to see rising stars on the stock exchange whose core business is Android Apps.... keep your cash in your wallet. There's a lot of people who don't have any skills or experience other than mobile apps, and they're going to get squeezed.

Yahew

Gurgle wrote: »

Ooooooohhh.... bitchslap that or smile and move on.....

Not sure what you mean by bitchslap. But let me tell you about me. I have written part of an OS in general use, desktop applications, server back end ( middle ware to sql), designed smallish databases and implemented web services. And mobile apps. Admittedly high end ones. ( I could name 'em in fact).

If someone gets to write an app builder to write the kind of objective C/ Java mobile code I write in the same way I write it, then it would be trivial to write one to generate desktop code. And web services are comparatively trivial. Everything, in fact.

With such a program we would all be out of a job.

Try not to get fooled by the fart apps, there is a lot going on under the hood in serious mobile dev.

Its still a bubble though, in terms of the money thrown at it. I trust I will survive.

Gurgle

Yahew wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by bitchslap. But let me tell you about me. I have written part of an OS in general use, desktop applications, server back end ( middle ware to sql), designed smallish databases and implemented web services. And mobile apps. Admittedly high end ones. ( I could name 'em in fact).

If someone gets to write an app builder to write the kind of objective C/ Java mobile code I write in the same way I write it, then it would be trivial to write one to generate desktop code. And web services are comparatively trivial. Everything, in fact.

With such a program we would all be out of a job.

Try not to get fooled by the fart apps, there is a lot going on under the hood in serious mobile dev.

Its still a bubble though, in terms of the money thrown at it. I trust I will survive.

I don't expect an app builder to replace the entire industry, just 70% of it.

Those who can do the other 30% are the ones who will keep up with whatever comes next and they will always be in jobs.

As with dotcom, the overpaid scripters will be on the dole while the real developers will barely notice the bubble bursting.

Yahew

Gurgle wrote: »

I don't expect an app builder to replace the entire industry, just 70% of it.

Those who can do the other 30% are the ones who will keep up with whatever comes next and they will always be in jobs.

As with dotcom, the overpaid scripters will be on the dole while the real developers will barely notice the bubble bursting.

Probably, true. But I never have worked on the the trivial apps which I suppose dominate the store.

In general I think, as Ireland's economy resets itself, IT will be in a relatively strong position.

coolshannagh28

As a confirmed Luddite ,it seems to me Ireland has an overdependence on multinational tech firms . They locate here because of our lenient tax rates and subsidised incentives ,yet create relativley few jobs which they seem to fill from elsewhere in europe .This is in a way a bubble because it is only sustainable as long as world demand holds up for the products and more importantly our government is allowed to keep corporation tax at its present rate by our eu partners

horgan_p

Can I point out on behalf of actual IT workers , that the average call center job is not the same as having a career in IT.
No offense meant to call center workers (whose patience I admire).

I am pie

Multinationals create plenty of jobs. I work in one, I have a reasonably good salary, a stable job and 2 promotions in 4 years. Selfishlessly I'm pretty glad they are here. It's not paradise, but it works for me. I'm not really a passionate nerd and don't have a passion for software outside of the office.

My (and only my own) experience is that more and more development jobs and infrastructure jobs are moving off shore to countries with lower salary levels. It is also my experience that results are very mixed with this approach.

My impression is that we're seeing an increase in 'delivery management' BA/PM/Program Mgr roles. (I can hear the howls of derision from the developers from here !)

Yeah, I am one of those conversion course post graduates ; ) Truthfully these courses are more appropriate for the BA / PM route and I would be wary of hiring someone from a tech role straight from one of these courses. In fact, I probably wouldn't, but I would and have hire for a BA role from these courses. Anyway, OT musings !

jester77

BostonB wrote: »

I kinda meant it was only web designers that were in oversupply. Most other people in development wouldn't have too much trouble finding work. But web designers were in a race to the bottom.

What exactly is a web designer? Do you mean the frontend, UI design, graphic artists, server side devs, db designers, BI dudes, QA and so on?

I don't see any of these being in over supply, they are all hard to come by, especially the ones with good experience.

Dannyboy83

IT Bubble - not a hope imo.

First, IT underwent a massive correction in the early 00s, when everything else was inflating.

Second, Are people actually aware of what the wages in IT are like? Most people I work with/have worked with earn at around the Average Industrial wage if they're lucky.

Third, the reason IT is so strong in Ireland is because of Points No.1 & No.2
Most other industries are correcting themselves at the moment (discluding the public sector)

Dannyboy83

COYW wrote: »

I work in the sector and things are going well at the moment. There is a serious shortage of staff at the higher end of the market. The standard of graduate in Computer Science is declining year on year and companies will continue to seek staff abroad until this trend alters. Judging by the results in Science and Mathematics in the LC, that won't happen for a good few years.

This is not surprising.
This has been ongoing for years.

Why would a student enter an IT course during the Celtic Pyramid, with a starting salary of €18k, and a top salary of €36k?

They could make more money on building sites, join the guards, prison officer, become a property agent.

Science died a death during the Celtic Pyramid.
When I did Computer Science, it was 440 points in the LC.
A few years later, it was barely over 200. Any clown could do it.

We still have that distortion, just not as extreme as what it was.

anoble66

There is still a real IT skills shortage in this country, especially in the high end network design/consultancy sector.

Boskowski

Gurgle wrote: »

I don't expect an app builder to replace the entire industry, just 70% of it.

The only thing an 'app builder' can do for you is to get you through some of the more formal overheads of setting up your development framework for want of a better word.
Like what libraries youre planning to use, what frontned technology, have you a database yes/no blabla. It then creates a skeleton project that compiles but actually doesnt do anything. Unless we're talking about something really really simple that's never going to be more than a tiny percentage of the work on a project. Sure its useful especially when youre new to a technology but it's no more than that.
Tthe claim it rmay replace a tangible percentage of an entire industry is just comedy. It's soo comedy I wasn't even going to reply to that but it's Monday night and I'm a little bored.

It's like saying there'll be novel builders where you say I want a baddy and a princess and a brown dog and whoosh out it comes with a 500 pager on hhe press of a button.

RandolphEsq

Big online social networking companies like Facebook, Twitter, Google, LinkedIn etc. are IMO grossly overvalued (Google probably not as much due to its fingers in several pies). These companies' success is so fragile that 6 months could destroy most of their wealth. The reputed valuation of Facebook, for example, of $45 billion is ludicrous and is namely to due them having over 800 million members. Facebook is free to use so the valuation represents the potential to make money from its members. However due to the fragility of the industry in which Facebook operates it has to be operating in a bubble.

robd

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Big online social networking companies like Facebook, Twitter, Google, LinkedIn etc. are IMO grossly overvalued (Google probably not as much due to its fingers in several pies). These companies' success is so fragile that 6 months could destroy most of their wealth. The reputed valuation of Facebook, for example, of $45 billion is ludicrous and is namely to due them having over 800 million members. Facebook is free to use so the valuation represents the potential to make money from its members. However due to the fragility of the industry in which Facebook operates it has to be operating in a bubble.

Google is a hugely profitable company. You can't put Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn into the same bucket as Google. You're right about the other 3 to a certain extent. However, Facebook has 800 million+ subscribers. That's worth huge advertising revenue no matter what way you look. Like google they'll likely change to a pay for access by businesses. A slight tweak and they too will likely be hugely profitable. They're pulling a huge amount of bottom feeders with them and that's where values will likely get burnt.

However this is not IT. These are high tech startups. A totally different thing. IT is lots of things including the hugely boring but stable things such as retail. Tesco are a huge user of IT for example. As are the government. As are every small business the depth and breath of the country.

robd

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is not surprising.
This has been ongoing for years.

Why would a student enter an IT course during the Celtic Pyramid, with a starting salary of €18k, and a top salary of €36k?

You're hugely mistaken on that one. Just check any of the job boards. Senior developers can easily earn 60k. Software Architects earn 80k+, which is down on a few years ago. A CTO can earn 120k. Contractors can earn anything from 250 to 500 per day.

€18k is a call centre support rate.

€36k for fixing PC's and handling IT support perhaps.

If that's all a person can earning after an IT course then one it wasn't a very good course and two they're not very good.

ravendude

Gurgle wrote: »

I don't expect an app builder to replace the entire industry, just 70% of it.

Those who can do the other 30% are the ones who will keep up with whatever comes next and they will always be in jobs.

As with dotcom, the overpaid scripters will be on the dole while the real developers will barely notice the bubble bursting.

:D:D ahhhh the old app builder.....It's been on the cusp of putting me out of a job for 1 or 2 decades now, but remarkably I'm as busy as ever
I've been in this game for quite a while and have been waiting for it for a long time now. The last one being touted was workflow engines that the business folks could drag and drop without having to involve those pesky developer types...all great until they need to think about things like compensating actions, or maybe some record isn't in quite the right format or something, ....then the eyes start to glaze over...

The mobile app builders are already there, ... Google have app inventer for andriod so off you go and belt out a few compelling apps and give up your day job :rolleyes:

Serious development in most forms (not even the cutting edge stuff) isn't easy, - any experienced developer will tell you there's hardly an app or system out there without warts, work arounds or compromises. Doing it well is hard and rare.

IT and tech was probably what really started the Celtic tiger in the mid nineties ( I mean the good boom that was there before the gombeens got involved). It's getting back to these fundamentals that will get us back on our feet.

ILikeBananas

robd wrote: »

I agree on the graduate diploma courses but drop out rates on degree courses are actually still that high. There are far from satisfactory graduates from just about every course, that's life I'm afraid.

I had a policy of refusing to interview candidates from graduate diploma conversion courses. This was for high-end programming of server-side java distributed systems. People with these course in general don't have the core knowledge required to work as this level. Some with a related physics or engineering background can, but you shouldn't need a conversion diploma then. I myself am engineering not computers.

Of course my now ex boss in said place had one of those graduate diplomas with a business primary degree. To say he was desperate was an understatement. He was neither a good manager nor a good technical person.

Thankfully those graduate diplomas are not so prevalent these days.

Wow, just wow.

BostonB

jester77 wrote: »

What exactly is a web designer? Do you mean the frontend, UI design, graphic artists, server side devs, db designers, BI dudes, QA and so on?

I don't see any of these being in over supply, they are all hard to come by, especially the ones with good experience.

Your talking about now. I was talking about then. The IT industry has moved on, as has the web design/development within it. Its vastly more technical now than it was back then.

StupidLikeAFox

I think the surge in IT jobs is mainly down to what another poster mentioned earlier, in that IT is intertwined with every other industry. When other industries are looking for areas to cut costs they see IT as a way to automate existing processes and make current tasks more efficient. Hence they will cut back some areas and invest in their IT infrastructure.

I dont think its comparable to either the dotcom bubble or the construction bubble. In both those cases people were lashing out money as quick as they could to make a quick buck, whereas at the moment the majority of the IT spend seems to be on improving business processes and making companies perform more efficiently.

jimmycrackcorm

Gurgle wrote: »

Sure it is. Now.
Give it a couple of years, we'll all be able to download an app builder that reduces 6 weeks of coding to 6 minutes of drag & drop.

Same as what happened to dot.com, remember when there were software engineers who's area of expertise was html code :b.

It's about to get harder because UI's are going to standardise on HTML5 but without the accompanying Developer toolsets. Ironically too html will become a necessary forte now for software developers.

thebman

From my experience in IT, individual companies expand their departments to get big projects done and they shrink back to normal afterwards so it looks like there are more jobs in it than there actually are.

It is an industry with a lot of moving around going on in it which if you just count companies hiring makes it look like a lot of new jobs but really people are moving from projects finishing up to other companies a lot of the time.

The shortage is a bit of a joke IMO. There are plenty of developers out there, good developers maybe harder to find but many companies are just afraid to hire a potentially good developer because their CV might not match exactly what is on the job description. Seems especially true about companies that allow HR to do initial screening. All they do is keyword match because they don't know the technologies.

There are loads of reasons for it, there really isn't that big a shortage and most of the companies out there that claim there is, want to reduce the wages they can offer from what I can see or might be in very specialised areas that are always going to struggle to find someone.

Gurgle

ravendude wrote: »

:D:D ahhhh the old app builder.....It's been on the cusp of putting me out of a job for 1 or 2 decades now, but remarkably I'm as busy as ever.

Haven't you noticed anything change over the last couple of decades?
Are you still using the same tools to do your work?

Yahew

Gurgle wrote: »

Haven't you noticed anything change over the last couple of decades?
Are you still using the same tools to do your work?

I am using a worse tool to do my work, compared to a decade ago. Its called xCode.