Moving home to Ireland from the US after 19 years

LegacyUser

Hello, I am currently living in the US and am serioulsy thinking about moving home. I have been reading about the habitual residency issue and am very confused. I was wondering if I would have a hard time applying for benefits. I don't have any children or spouse and have no money in the US. My parents and siblings all live in Ireland so that is one of the main reasons for me to come home (that and the older I get the more I want to be home). Is there any way I could qualify for habitual residence in Ireland since all my family bar one sibling live in Ireland?

Atlantis50

This may help - From Operational Guidelines on Habitual Residence http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/habres.aspx

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Returning migrants or Resuming previous residence

A person who had previously been habitually resident in the State and who moved to live and work in another country and then resumes his/her long-term residence in the State may be regarded as being habitually resident immediately on his/her return to the State.


In determining the main centre of interest in such cases the DO should take account of:

• purpose of return e.g. expiry of foreign residence permit
• the applicant's stated intentions
• verified arrangements which have been made in regard to returning on a long-term basis e.g. transfer of financial accounts and any other assets, termination of residence based entitlements in the other country, or assistance from Safe Home (see below) or a similar programme to enable Irish emigrants to return permanently
• length and continuity of the previous residence in the State
• the record of employment or self employment in another State and
• whether s/he has maintained links with the previous residence and can be regarded as resuming his/her previous residence rather than starting a new period of residence.

Replies to the following questions may assist in determining whether an applicant has retained or resumed his or her main centre of interest in Ireland after a period spent abroad:

• how long did the applicant live in Ireland before leaving?
• why did the applicant come to Ireland originally?
• when and why did the applicant leave Ireland?
• how long did the applicant remain or intend to remain abroad?
• did spouse/civil partner and children, if any, also leave Ireland?
• was accommodation retained in Ireland?
• if the applicant owned property in Ireland, was it let, and was the lease timed to coincide with the applicant's return to Ireland?
• what links did the applicant keep with Ireland?
• can the applicant verify cessation of employment, lease or rental agreement etc. abroad?
• when and why did the applicant return to Ireland?
• have there been other brief absences? If yes, obtain details.

The following examples are acceptable as proof of permanent return to Ireland: (Allow 28 days for documentation to be submitted)

• Documented evidence of transportation of personal possessions
• Proof of cessation of employment
• Proof of termination of lease on rented property or proof of sale of home
• Evidence of closure of financial accounts and transfer of funds
• Evidence of completion of studies abroad (where applicable)
• Copy of passport and expiration of visa at the time they returned

(In a case where a person says they were resident illegally in a country outside the EEA, the entry visa to that country, stamped on their passport, will clearly show the permitted duration of their stay in that country. For example, a person who went to the USA in 2007 and was granted an entry visa to remain there for 90 days but continued to live there until 2009, that person was resident in the USA illegally after the expiry of the 90 days. In a case like this, the fact that a person cannot return to that particular country, would mean that they may be likely to be habitually resident in Ireland).

This list is not exhaustive.

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Tayla

A lot of people do seem to get refused assistance due to the state deciding they don't satisfy this condition.

An Irish friend of mine, moved to Spain for 3 years, worked and paid tax in Spain for the duration, closed bank accounts etc over there and moved back, she lived with friends then for a while when she came back because she seperated for her husband, she was just short of the required PRSI contributions required to get Job seekers benefit, managed to get a part time job then about a year after that but yet they're saying that there is no proof that she has lived here for the last year, even though she's sent them in letters, hospital records etc. This woman is a mother with grown up children who all live here and as I said she seperated from her husband but yet the social welfare are extremely unhelpful.


There has been cases reported of people returning from foreign countries to become carers for sick relatives, this is saving the state a fortune but yet they won't pay these carers a carers allowance.

I wouldn't bet on getting the payment (at least not without appealing it) so you will need to make sure that your family will be able to support you in the meantime.

tonydub99

Hi there ....I lived abroad for many years and came back to Ireland after 17 years in the UK and Spain. It took me 5 months to receive welfare and it was a hard long slow tedious frustrating infuriating and degrading process because of the habitual residence requirement ...My advice would be to get prepared before you go see them because they will want everything including the kitchen sink to prove you have moved back here permanently. Keep all records for them of previous employers ..your terminated property leases ...your closed bank accounts ...your divorce papers if you ever had one...bank balances preferably showing zero.....everything and anything is relevant to them in order to prove your case.
Above all else persevere with them or go to the CWO with your passport and show him that you are an Irish Citizen and the constitution promises to protect you. Make an appointment to see your local TD at his/ her clinic preferably the party in power and put your case to them and ensure you send a letter to welfare explaining you have had a meeting with your local TD
PESTER THEM PESTER THEM PESTER THEM.......you are fully entitled to it dont let them fob you off with austerity bull**** to save their own jobs.

lilly032371

tonydub99 wrote: »

Hi there ....I lived abroad for many years and came back to Ireland after 17 years in the UK and Spain. It took me 5 months to receive welfare and it was a hard long slow tedious frustrating infuriating and degrading process because of the habitual residence requirement ...My advice would be to get prepared before you go see them because they will want everything including the kitchen sink to prove you have moved back here permanently. Keep all records for them of previous employers ..your terminated property leases ...your closed bank accounts ...your divorce papers if you ever had one...bank balances preferably showing zero.....everything and anything is relevant to them in order to prove your case.
Above all else persevere with them or go to the CWO with your passport and show him that you are an Irish Citizen and the constitution promises to protect you. Make an appointment to see your local TD at his/ her clinic preferably the party in power and put your case to them and ensure you send a letter to welfare explaining you have had a meeting with your local TD
PESTER THEM PESTER THEM PESTER THEM.......you are fully entitled to it dont let them fob you off with austerity bull**** to save their own jobs.

Thanks so much for the great advice. I was feeling very depressed about my prospects when I go home. I'm single never married and have no kids and having my family home in Ireland is the main reason for wanting to come back. I am going to get all the information I need which will take many months. I also got some great advice from the migrant project so hopefully I will have my ducks in a row.

tonydub99

lilly032371 wrote: »

Thanks so much for the great advice. I was feeling very depressed about my prospects when I go home. I'm single never married and have no kids and having my family home in Ireland is the main reason for wanting to come back. I am going to get all the information I need which will take many months. I also got some great advice from the migrant project so hopefully I will have my ducks in a row.

No worries Lilly ....you will get it sorted pm me if you have any further queries .....I have had a lot of dealings with social welfare....Im no expert but I can point you in the right direction x

fatsamsdisco

I moved home 18 months ago after living abroad for 15 years. As another member mentioned above, it's a long hard slog to qualify for the HR. keep receipts of your moving expenses, airline ticket, copy of your terminated lease in the US, closed bank accounts, any ads u might have posted to sell ur stuff. Basically, as much info as u can muster to prove your case. I remember them sending out a letter requesting 10 items of information. I managed to get it all together, took ages. They then came back requesting a few other pieces of info. I think the policy is designed to frustrate you into giving up, but stick with it & u'll persevere.

I never contacted my TD, but that seems like a decent idea. BTW, you'll be waiting an average of 6 months for any payment to arrive, so be prepared. Good luck with it all!

MrFrisp

Hi there...
I have a friend in the same situation....But with one little difference...

They are due to come back from the U.S. after over 20 years,,,but a good few years ago,decided to give up her Irish Citizenship,and become an American.

How would this affect this person getting payments,entitlements,,etc over here when they return?

Are would she be entitled to anything at all?


Thanks..



.

snubbleste

How did she give up her Irish citizenship? Did she offically renounce it and if so why?
Was she born in Ireland?

MrFrisp

snubbleste wrote: »

How did she give up her Irish citizenship? Did she offically renounce it and if so why?
Was she born in Ireland?

Yes,,She was born in Ireland..

Yes,,she offically renounced it..To be honest,,she decided that Ireland had done nothing for her,,so that's why she left.

She has an American passport now.




.

snubbleste

Hmm I don't know
I'd suggest if she really wants to settle in Ireland permanently she should think about restating her Irish citizenship if possible. Otherwise she will be an alien who will need to display proof of funds/visa/proof she won't be a burden on the State if she wishes to reside here.

saa

snubbleste wrote: »

How did she give up her Irish citizenship? Did she offically renounce it and if so why?
Was she born in Ireland?

Because to become an American citizen you have to take an oath that renounces your old citizenship.

There are exceptions nowadays I hear though, constitutional nonsense.

Sham Courtney

Sorry to butt in here lads but I have a question.

I'm moving back to Ireland (permanently) in early March after living in New Zealand for the past 5 years. I'm not a resident or a citizen of NZ, I was just on 2 years working visas. I am single, 29 and no kids. Can I claim the benefit after been out of the country that long? I hope to get sorted with a job to keep me going until I find an engineering job.

Thanks in advance.

D

lilly032371

fatsamsdisco wrote: »

I moved home 18 months ago after living abroad for 15 years. As another member mentioned above, it's a long hard slog to qualify for the HR. keep receipts of your moving expenses, airline ticket, copy of your terminated lease in the US, closed bank accounts, any ads u might have posted to sell ur stuff. Basically, as much info as u can muster to prove your case. I remember them sending out a letter requesting 10 items of information. I managed to get it all together, took ages. They then came back requesting a few other pieces of info. I think the policy is designed to frustrate you into giving up, but stick with it & u'll persevere.

I never contacted my TD, but that seems like a decent idea. BTW, you'll be waiting an average of 6 months for any payment to arrive, so be prepared. Good luck with it all!

I am in the process of getting all what I think I need together. I have proof of the bank taking back my property. My bank account is in the red. I really have nothing too much of value so I won't be shipping much home though cause it costs way too much but I will be shipping knick knacks books and such. I will have proof of resignation from my job due to relocating. I will also have medical records. I intend to obtain a GP as soon as I go over there and have my medical records from all my doctors in the US transferred.

I will be opening a bank account. Re-activating my library card. I'm going to redo my C.V. and start sending it out to places in Ireland about a week before I return. I do really want to find a job. Maybe I'll hit the jackpot and find one quickly (you never know!) I am going to get an age card as soon as I go back too.
I have no husband or children and have never married so no worries there. My dad is really good at contacting T.D.s so hell probably be of great help there. I am really severing ties to the US when I return to Ireland so hopefully I will have all the paperwork I need because once I am home it may be hard to obtain. I can prove that I can't afford to stay in the US anymore since my debts have debts at this stage and I can prove all that.

Along with that extensive HRC form, I intend to write a letter outlining all my reasons for coming home with necessary proof to back it up. My parent’s health isn't the best and I will be moving in with them because I can't afford to rent a place and besides I have a great relationship with them and want to be able to help them out as much as I can. I will have something from their doctors outlining their health issues.
The thing that gets my goat is I left when I was younger because there were no jobs in Ireland and I really did want to work so I was not a burden on the state. I want to come back to be near my family because I am alone here and can't take that anymore and my own country doesn't want me back! I will preserve though because quite honestly I am sick of living in the States. Its really not all its cracked up to be! I guess the situation would be different if I had children here but really I have nothing to keep me here and every reason to be home. I don't want to stay here and get that dreaded phone call that one of my parents passed away and live with the regret that I didn't spend more time with them.
We will see what happens when I come home and I will be posting updates.

Thanks for all the great advice!

lilly032371

saa wrote: »

Because to become an American citizen you have to take an oath that renounces your old citizenship.

There are exceptions nowadays I hear though, constitutional nonsense.

That is not true, you are allowed to have dual citizenship; however if you are an American Citizen they do prefer you to enter and leave the U.S. on your American Passport.

AngelLight

I don't know why anyone would seriously think of coming back to Ireland with the way things are here. It's truly difficult. A close friend of mine left here three years ago to go to Oz because the situation is so dire here and I know she'll stay over there until the situation in this country picks up, if it ever does:eek: I know the system here doesn't make it easy for people returning from being abroad. In fact I feel this country deters people from coming home which is shocking! Hopefully things work out for you Lilly, but it won't be easy and also keep in mind that if your parents are in receipt of state pension or other benefits they will be means tested once you apply for your own. Keep your fingers crossed that it won't be so hard for you when you do come back here. Good luck with it all.

Spread

I wonder Lilly if your plan of returning to Ireland is because of far away hills looking greener? It was not nice having your house reposessed (possibly due to job loss) but I would query how you think your lot will improve in Ireland. The overall jobless figures there are 50% higher and there are a few states here that have full employment. In NH, for example, the figure is 5.6%. So I think it would be better to relocate here than to return home. That could be for later date. However, I wish you all the best.

lilly032371

Spread wrote: »

I wonder Lilly if your plan of returning to Ireland is because of far away hills looking greener? It was not nice having your house reposessed (possibly due to job loss) but I would query how you think your lot will improve in Ireland. The overall jobless figures there are 50% higher and there are a few states here that have full employment. In NH, for example, the figure is 5.6%. So I think it would be better to relocate here than to return home. That could be for later date. However, I wish you all the best.

Thank you for the kind words. The main reason why I am going home though is family. The far away hills do look greener due to that. I don't have any family in the US. I have a job however my state with very high unemployment something similar to Ireland. Hopefully all will work out when I get home.

lilly032371

AngelLight wrote: »

I don't know why anyone would seriously think of coming back to Ireland with the way things are here. It's truly difficult. A close friend of mine left here three years ago to go to Oz because the situation is so dire here and I know she'll stay over there until the situation in this country picks up, if it ever does:eek: I know the system here doesn't make it easy for people returning from being abroad. In fact I feel this country deters people from coming home which is shocking! Hopefully things work out for you Lilly, but it won't be easy and also keep in mind that if your parents are in receipt of state pension or other benefits they will be means tested once you apply for your own. Keep your fingers crossed that it won't be so hard for you when you do come back here. Good luck with it all.

LOL, Ireland's job creation plan has always been encourage many people to emigrate and make it really hard for them to come back. I do know most benefits are means tested but do they do take your parents state beneifts into account even if I am over 35? Wiill my parents benefits be reduced if I get benefits.

Thanks

MrFrisp

Yes......I don't think your age has anything to do with it,to be honest..

The more people living in the house,,the less money they are going to get..Nearly everything is means tested these days.

Even if you get a job when you come back,this will be used as means against your parents,if they are in reciept of benefits.So,,any extra income coming into the the house,means somebody is going to take a cut somewhere.

I,, like some others here,can't understand why your leaving a country where you have a job to come back to a country that has nothing going for it at present...It just don't make sense.

Going by one of your earlier posts,,OP,,are you making any provisions to pay off your "debts on your debts" in the U.S.,,or are you leaving them there?

Just curious..


.

lilly032371

SexyGuy wrote: »

Yes......I don't think your age has anything to do with it,to be honest..

The more people living in the house,,the less money they are going to get..Nearly everything is means tested these days.

Even if you get a job when you come back,this will be used as means against your parents,if they are in reciept of benefits.So,,any extra income coming into the the house,means somebody is going to take a cut somewhere.

I,, like some others here,can't understand why your leaving a country where you have a job to come back to a country that has nothing going for it at present...It just don't make sense.

Going by one of your earlier posts,,OP,,are you making any provisions to pay off your "debts on your debts" in the U.S.,,or are you leaving them there?

Just curious..


.

Ireland has more going for it for me than the US at this time. It has my family. I know its going to be hard moving back but at least I have the support of my family. Here in the US I do not, I also have health issues which do make my life more difficult. Being nearer to my family will help with that. I don't want to be on my own any more so that is the main reason why I am moving home.

The state where I live in currently has one of the highest unemployment rate in the country but people do find jobs. I hope to do find a job even if its a part-time and min wage, I am not too fussy. I am going to do my best not to apply for benefits and will only do so if my job search is unsuccessful after a few months.

Yes I will be making provisions to pay off my debts in the US when I find employment. I don't want to be leaving them behind as that is bad karma.

odds_on

AngelLight wrote: »

I don't know why anyone would seriously think of coming back to Ireland with the way things are here. It's truly difficult. A close friend of mine left here three years ago to go to Oz because the situation is so dire here and I know she'll stay over there until the situation in this country picks up, if it ever does:eek: I know the system here doesn't make it easy for people returning from being abroad. In fact I feel this country deters people from coming home which is shocking! Hopefully things work out for you Lilly, but it won't be easy and also keep in mind that if your parents are in receipt of state pension or other benefits they will be means tested once you apply for your own. Keep your fingers crossed that it won't be so hard for you when you do come back here. Good luck with it all.

Perhaps those who are retired would like to spend the remainder of their life in their homeland.
Or those who have been living abroad and have been diagnosed with a terminal disease such as cancer would like to die in their homeland.

Both the above apply to me.

Sham Courtney

I am moving home for a wan, to play football again before I'm too old and the parents aren't getting any younger like!

lilly032371

odds_on wrote: »

Perhaps those who are retired would like to spend the remainder of their life in their homeland.
Or those who have been living abroad and have been diagnosed with a terminal disease such as cancer would like to die in their homeland.

Both the above apply to me.

I am sorry to hear about your situation. My heart goes out to you odds on. You know in my case I have health issues and am just ready to come home. Now is the time for me to come home, pity its at a very bad time. I would be okay living in the states; I just would be miserable since I have been feeling the loss of having family close to me for years. You know sometimes people just want to come home! We shouldn't be penalized for it and made to feel like returned convicts or something.

I hope something can be done with regards to your situation. You are in my prayers!

lilly032371

Sham Courtney wrote: »

I am moving home for a wan, to play football again before I'm too old and the parents aren't getting any younger like!

All good reasons Sham in my opinion. Time missed spending with loved ones is something you can never get back. It took me a very long time to understand that family does trump everything! Good luck to you and your lady.

odds_on

lilly032371 wrote: »

I am sorry to hear about your situation. My heart goes out to you odds on. You know in my case I have health issues and am just ready to come home. Now is the time for me to come home, pity its at a very bad time. I would be okay living in the states; I just would be miserable since I have been feeling the loss of having family close to me for years. You know sometimes people just want to come home! We shouldn't be penalized for it and made to feel like returned convicts or something.

I hope something can be done with regards to your situation. You are in my prayers!

Thanks for that, lilly. I am ready to go whenever the Good Lord calls be home. He knows when - I don't. However, I would prefer to go from my homeland than a foreign place!

In my case, I will be bringing some money with me - enough to buy a small bungalow or apartment somewhere nice but not too far from access to a decent hospital.

Best wishes

AngelLight

I think no matter what you do you are in for a rough time of things because when you come back here you will see for yourself how bad things actually are. You say you even resigned from your 12 year job :eek: so you could come back here. That was either nuts of you or incredibly brave, as your job prospects over here won't be great no matter how well educated you are. I know people with Master degrees who can't get a job even in fast food outlets.

Leaving debts behind is one thing that I've seen motivate people in leaving whatever country they lived in to come home, but hope your debts don't follow you because in some cases they can. Depending on the debt accrued of course. Hope you've looked into this properly so you don't end up being red flagged at the airport or worst case that they leave you go, but if you ever try to go back in you may be stopped. One thing I am curious about is how do you expect to live when you come home? Surely it would be difficult for your elderly parents to support you if they are on benefits? So you will add expense to their everyday living, as you will need to eat. Have you made your parents aware that their money will be cut if you apply for your own money or even work? This is the one thing that always pissed me off about this country, that an adult child living in the family home is penalised for working so they then cut the other people's money to make it that much more difficult. Like everyone here I do wish you well on your return and maybe you'd let us know how you are doing.

AngelLight

odds_on wrote: »

Perhaps those who are retired would like to spend the remainder of their life in their homeland.
Or those who have been living abroad and have been diagnosed with a terminal disease such as cancer would like to die in their homeland.

Both the above apply to me.

Hi odds_on. Sorry to hear of your predicament and I can understand why you would want to come back home, but Lilly isn't of retirement age and doesn't have a terminal illness. However maybe she feels alone where she is and wants to reconnect to her family here.

Can't blame her to be honest, but people here are only trying to let her know it won't be easy. She isn't coming back with money to buy a bungalow if she is even coming back with money at all, which I doubt as she stated she has debts that she is leaving behind.

I will hold you in my prayers Odds_on and hope that you are with those who love you so that you can enjoy the time you have left to you in peace.

odds_on

AngelLight wrote: »

Hi odds_on. Sorry to hear of your predicament and I can understand why you would want to come back home, but Lilly isn't of retirement age and doesn't have a terminal illness. However maybe she feels alone where she is and wants to reconnect to her family here.

Can't blame her to be honest, but people here are only trying to let her know it won't be easy. She isn't coming back with money to buy a bungalow if she is even coming back with money at all, which I doubt as she stated she has debts that she is leaving behind.

I will hold you in my prayers Odds_on and hope that you are with those who love you so that you can enjoy the time you have left to you in peace.

Many thanks, AngelLight.