Why does shannon airport have loads of transatlanitc flights?

owenc

Hi, i was just looking and they have 5 transatlantic flights, according to wikipedia they have 1.7 million passengers how is that even sustainable for 5 transatlantic flights? Belfast has about 5 million passengers and we only have 1 flight and every time i go on the co flight it is packed every time. So why do we not have more transatlantic flights? How can they in the middle of nowhere have more than us? Don't say the demand isn't there because if you were ever on co you'd see how it is. Shouldn't we have at least one more to maybe boston or somewhere like that?

highlydebased

owenc wrote: »

Hi, i was just looking and they have 5 transatlantic flights, according to wikipedia they have 1.7 million passengers how is that even sustainable for 5 transatlantic flights? Belfast has about 5 million passengers and we only have 1 flight and every time i go on the co flight it is packed every time. So why do we not have more transatlantic flights? How can they in the middle of nowhere have more than us? Don't say the demand isn't there because if you were ever on co you'd see how it is. Shouldn't we have at least one more to maybe boston or somewhere like that?

They in the middle of nowhere? That's a rather bitter attitude to have.

Anyway, considering there are only TA flights from Dublin or Shannon people obviously have to travel from Cork/Gwy etc to Shannon. It's not like european travel. Flights operated with 757's are far more sustainable than those with A330's. If Aer Lingus were to make nothing at all they wouldn't even operate their peak season (summer) flights to the USA. Continental have publically said Shannon is a good market for them and whatnot. They do fly 11 weekly in Summer too.

Is there not APD from Belfast?

Plus, a daily flight to EWR is all that operates in Winter so that's hardly loads.

xflyer

Transatlantic flights bring in a lot of American tourists. You can be reasonably assured that they're not that interested in flying into Belfast compared to Kerry or Cork or Galway. Like it or not Belfast is still not high on the list of various tourist hotspots for all sorts of reasons. Add to that fact that there is a great deal of business travel to and from the States particularly in relation to all the American companies based here.

Belfast on the other hand is merely an outlying regional airport of the UK. It seem to me that their focus is more on London than Boston. Most transatlantic traffic in the UK goes through London. Maybe you should ask the question of the British government or the NI Assembly?

Possibly too, you should direct the question to the Airport itself and it's owners?

Clearly there isn't a demand.

L1011

Shannon has pre clearance. Belfast doesn't.

I suspect this has a quite significant impact.

owenc

highlydebased wrote: »

They in the middle of nowhere? That's a rather bitter attitude to have.

Anyway, considering there are only TA flights from Dublin or Shannon people obviously have to travel from Cork/Gwy etc to Shannon. It's not like european travel. Flights operated with 757's are far more sustainable than those with A330's. If Aer Lingus were to make nothing at all they wouldn't even operate their peak season (summer) flights to the USA. Continental have publically said Shannon is a good market for them and whatnot. They do fly 11 weekly in Summer too.

Is there not APD from Belfast?

Plus, a daily flight to EWR is all that operates in Winter so that's hardly loads.

No they got rid of that about a month ago, i never though of that perhaps that is the reason. And i just looked up the price and it is actually cheeper to fly from bfs rather than shannon and also most of the other flights from mainland uk now that the tax has gone. And as for 11 flights did i not read that, that flights seasonal? The one from belfast operates regularly all year. Everyday except thursday, theres clearly demand. And theres only 7 flights each week not 11 i just looked.

owenc

xflyer wrote: »

Transatlantic flights bring in a lot of American tourists. You can be reasonably assured that they're not that interested in flying into Belfast compared to Kerry or Cork or Galway. Like it or not Belfast is still not high on the list of various tourist hotspots for all sorts of reasons. Add to that fact that there is a great deal of business travel to and from the States particularly in relation to all the American companies based here.

Belfast on the other hand is merely an outlying regional airport of the UK. It seem to me that their focus is more on London than Boston. Most transatlantic traffic in the UK goes through London. Maybe you should ask the question of the British government or the NI Assembly?

Possibly too, you should direct the question to the Airport itself and it's owners?

Clearly there isn't a demand.

LOL if there isn't the demand how come we have the co flight running all year and shannons is seasonal? Tell me that? Go research, you clearly haven't got a clue! Anyone from ni will tell you that, that co flight is always packed! My dad has been on the 3 times in February last year and each time it was nearly full.

testicle

owenc wrote: »

No they got rid of that about a month ago, i never though of that perhaps that is the reason. And i just looked up the price and it is actually cheeper to fly from bfs rather than shannon and also most of the other flights from mainland uk now that the tax has gone. And as for 11 flights did i not read that, that flights seasonal? The one from belfast operates regularly all year. Everyday except thursday, theres clearly demand. And theres only 7 flights each week not 11 i just looked.

That's handy for you seeing as you're in Derry, for the rest of us Shannon is handy, has Customs & Immigration pre-clearance thus so much easier.

owenc

testicle wrote: »

That's handy for you seeing as you're in Derry, for the rest of us Shannon is handy, has Customs & Immigration pre-clearance thus so much easier.

To be honest i don't think anyone outside galway or kerry will use that airport, people from donegal will goto belfast mostly and people from ni will goto belfast, down south most will goto dublin, so not its not handy. And when did i ever live in derry, i live on the north coast.

Sterling Archer

owenc wrote: »

To be honest i don't think anyone outside galway or kerry will use that airport, people from donegal will goto belfast mostly and people from ni will goto belfast, down south most will goto dublin, so not its not handy. And when did i ever live in derry, i live on the north coast.

Seriously, So people in Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Mayo & Cork, obviously don't fly at all... If Belfast thought there was as high a demand as you think them they probably would look at adding more flights, you say they are nearly full all the time, so add 1 extra flight if the first flight is nearly full (not full) where are you going to get people for the other flight.

Also Shannon is a lot less hassle compared to Dublin, and with the motorway running right up to the door a lot of people from the midlands might see it as an easier option

Tenger

Shane_ef wrote: »

......If Belfast thought there was as high a demand as you think them they probably would look at adding more flights, you say they are nearly full all the time, so add 1 extra flight if the first flight is nearly full (not full) where are you going to get people for the other flight.......

Trust me, if the airlines think they can make a profit in Belfast they would operate the flight. They would have access to all sorts of statisitcs that tell them whether it is worth their while or not. (i.e. how many fly to LHR to connect, how many drive to DUB to go to the USA, etc)

The OP makes it seem like a conspiracy against Belfast.

Are there any issues with the runway in Aldergrove or Belfast City?

owenc

Well how many passengers does the shannon ewr route take then? And when i said one extra flight i ment an extra destination, even a seasonal one would be good, maybe boston or toronto. And the population surrounding belfast is upto 2 million way higher than that surrounding shannon, of course there would be demand, if they had the flights there would be! And nearly full was in the winter, it is always packed in the summer, it is a very popular route, so popular that alot of the times i go on it i see people from the town! I know that in my class alone (this is example of how popular it is) 10 people used it in the summer. It is used alot by schools on exchange trips too. It is definately very popular. And i was actually surprised to see quite alot of americans on the flight idk how many there were but i'm going to say at least 40% were american.

owenc

Tenger wrote: »

Trust me, if the airlines think they can make a profit in Belfast they would operate the flight. They would have access to all sorts of statisitcs that tell them whether it is worth their while or not. (i.e. how many fly to LHR to connect, how many drive to DUB to go to the USA, etc)

The OP makes it seem like a conspiracy against Belfast.

Are there any issues with the runway in Aldergrove or Belfast City?

Well you see i think that because of the apd thats why they haven't came. it has only left in the past month so we have to wait and see if that brings in anything. I think thats the main reason. Surely if shannon can get a profit with 1.7 million passengers belfast can with 5 million.

lord lucan

owenc wrote: »

Well you see i think that because of the apd thats why they haven't came. it has only left in the past month so we have to wait and see if that brings in anything. I think thats the main reason.

The APD has a lot to do with it. There were rumblings from CO about the BFS-EWR route being in trouble. I think CO let it be known deliberately in order to stir the NIA in to action and get some concession on it from Westminster.

Another thing to consider is yield. Whilst a flight may look nearly full it doesn't mean the airline is making any money on it. Factors like Business/First sales and cargo can make the difference between a flight breaking even and turning a profit.

Airlines are commercial business' and don't run routes for the craic. If there's a genuine demand they'll tap into it but if demand falls away they'll be gone in a flash. Sweetners from Governments and Airport Authorities will help in the short term but if a route is making no money it's sayonara.

owenc

lord lucan wrote: »

The APD has a lot to do with it. There were rumblings from CO about the BFS-EWR route being in trouble. I think CO let it be known deliberately in order to stir the NIA in to action and get some concession on it from Westminster.

Another thing to consider is yield. Whilst a flight may look nearly full it doesn't mean the airline is making any money on it. Factors like Business/First sales and cargo can make the difference between a flight breaking even and turning a profit.

Airlines are commercial business' and don't run routes for the craic. If there's a genuine demand they'll tap into it but if demand falls away they'll be gone in a flash. Sweetners from Governments and Airport Authorities will help in the short term but if a route is making no money it's sayonara.

Yes it was noted on the news that the route was always packed but they didn't make a profit because of that stupid apd. But i'm wondering now will we get more in because that is gone. Because there is demand, last year i think they carried over 110,000 passengers on the route, i'm not sure if thats lots but it sounds good for a wee airport in ni.

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

Well you see i think that because of the apd thats why they haven't came. it has only left in the past month so we have to wait and see if that brings in anything. I think thats the main reason. Surely if shannon can get a profit with 1.7 million passengers belfast can with 5 million.

Any chance you can back up those numbers with actual facts?
Lets see if any new routes get launched next summer.

So Belfast has 3/4 of the island of Ireland as it catchment area? (RoI= 5m, NI=1.5m, approx figures)


I can understand your thinking based on anecdotal evidence.......however if the airlines see an opportunity they will get in there. I for one think a route from Belfast to Canada could do well based ancestral ties (due past emigration)

Maybe they are waiting for B787 deliveries to free up a B757, maybe they are waiting for more Multi-Nationals to set up in NI, who knows? SNN has along history of T/A flying and this gives it market awareness, many US tourists land into SNN to begin their tour and end up flying out of DUB.

lord lucan

owenc wrote: »

Yes it was noted on the news that the route was always packed but they didn't make a profit because of that stupid apd. But i'm wondering now will we get more in because that is gone. Because there is demand, last year i think they carried over 110,000 passengers on the route, i'm not sure if thats lots but it sounds good for a wee airport in ni.

They were losing some serious amount of business to DUB. A family of 4 flying to MCO from BFS with CO via EWR could save a lot of cash by flying out of Dublin. With frequent and cheap buses between the 2 cities it was an easy decision for many.

The change in APD may have some effect on the BFS-EWR route but it'll take a while before it becomes apparent if it has.

owenc

Well I think maybe I'n a few years but I'd like one now... And I actually don't know anyone who has driven to Dublin to goto America Dublin is 150 miles away who could be bothered with that? Most use Bfs but some goto London when it's cheaper

warrior00

<snip>

owenc

Oh my god.. That was just mean

xflyer

owenc wrote: »

LOL if there isn't the demand how come we have the co flight running all year and shannons is seasonal? Tell me that? Go research, you clearly haven't got a clue! Anyone from ni will tell you that, that co flight is always packed! My dad has been on the 3 times in February last year and each time it was nearly full.

'Go research, you clearly haven't got a clue!'. Seriously though before you get all overexcited, don't you think the airline and or the airport would figured this themselves. You said it yourself, the flight's nearly full, not full. What is it a 757? So they can nearly fill a 757 every day. If the demand was actually there, they'd send a 767 or a 777 or some other airline would be swooping in there to snap up all mythical disappointed potential passengers who apparently can't find a seat on the daily flight.

I'm not sure why you felt you had to be rude to me. I didn't call you bitter or a bsteward .:P

(Don't mind him Owen, he will be banned for that!)

andy_g

warrior00 wrote: »

<snip>

Abusive behavior like this earns bans.
Have 2 weeks off to think about it.

lord lucan

owenc wrote: »

Well I think maybe I'n a few years but I'd like one now... And I actually don't know anyone who has driven to Dublin to goto America Dublin is 150 miles away who could be bothered with that? Most use Bfs but some goto London when it's cheaper

Problem with flying through London is they still pay full APD. So unless they get a massive deal on flight they're still paying big money.

Dublin is only an hour and a half from Belfast by bus. I work in Dublin Airport and have talked to countless passengers from across the border who've found it cheaper to fly ex-DUB than Belfast. With the times we live in people will take a big financial saving over a couple of hours travelling to the airport.

owenc

Hopefully the apd axe will change that

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

.......And I actually don't know anyone who has driven to Dublin to go to America, Dublin is 150 miles away who could be bothered with that? .....

Like Lord Lucan, I have met dozens upon dozen's of families who have chosen the 90 minute drive to DUB for a direct/cheaper/more convenient flight.

The end of APD may help but DUB offers more choice so will always be an option for people from Ulster.

As xflyer points out, the B757 is used for less profitable routes where the airline cannot fill an A330 or B767. It's great for the airport to get the route but it may often be a sign of a marginal route.
Some of the B757 routes into DUB get upgraded to larger aircraft from time to time,this is sign of a healthier market.

westdub

owenc wrote: »

And I actually don't know anyone who has driven to Dublin to goto America Dublin is 150 miles away who could be bothered with that?

There is also a bus service from Belfast to Dublin airport that wouldnt be there if nobody was using it.....
But perhaps the fact that where you live is over a hours drive to Belfast without adding the 90 mins to Dublin could explain why you dont know anyone thats used Dublin Airport as its too far away...

yew_tree

owenc - maybe you should be arguing your case to get more transatlantic flights to Belfast with the Management of the airport or the airlines. Get over it.

CardinalJ

A brief look in any of the dublin airport carparks would indicate how many people come down from the north to fly.

roundymac

[QUOTE=owenc;756524 And as for 11 flights did i not read that, that flights seasonal? The one from belfast operates regularly all year. Everyday except thursday, theres clearly demand. And theres only 7 flights each week not 11 i just looked.[/QUOTE]

Con operate SNN-EWR daily all year round and 11 times a week during the summer season. As this is the winter you would see that it is, as you say, only 7 flights each week.
As for Shannon being in the middle of nowhere where do you think Belfast is? centre of the Universe?

Neworder79

Aldergrove is about 30min from Belfast, slightly more than Shannon is from Limerick. Galway and Cork are also within an hour, and the Shannon region is one of the most industrialised in the country with many US multinationals. It may be the "middle of nowhere" to you, but population densities are spread wider in the Republic and there would be well over 1m in the wider Shannon catchment being the only transatlantic hub outside Dublin. That said some of the demand may be down to the historical position of Shannon as the main TA gateway.

I also know of several family members in Belfast who have used Dublin for TA flights based on cost recently. To them it's no big deal to hop down the motorway for a long haul flight and a more comfortable wide body aircraft also.

JohnnyTodd

Somehow I' say the last place American tourists want to visit is Belfast!

I know Shannon is a cesspit too but it is quite close to tourist places, Galway Kerry and the likes

Daniel S

andy_g wrote: »

Have 2 weeks off to think about it.

Ah, in fairness to him he's been working hard all year and needed the break before Christmas

alan85

owenc wrote: »

LOL if there isn't the demand how come we have the co flight running all year and shannons is seasonal? Tell me that? Go research, you clearly haven't got a clue! Anyone from ni will tell you that, that co flight is always packed! My dad has been on the 3 times in February last year and each time it was nearly full.

I hope your aim isn't to be a commercial pilot because with behaviour that you've shown here you wouldn't stand a chance. Your arrogance is clear as day. "Londonderry, N.I., U.K.", "U.K. mainland", "People would rather London to Dublin"... Have you a point to prove/agenda? We really don't care for your political views. I consider Belfast to be in Ireland regardless of political borders. You don't and that's clear. A bit of respect when you come on here wouldn't go a miss! Chill pill my friend, chill pill...

Storm 10

owenc wrote: »

LOL if there isn't the demand how come we have the co flight running all year and shannons is seasonal? Tell me that? Go research, you clearly haven't got a clue! Anyone from ni will tell you that, that co flight is always packed! My dad has been on the 3 times in February last year and each time it was nearly full.

Always packed or nearly full :D:D:D

Storm 10

JohnnyTodd wrote: »

Somehow I' say the last place American tourists want to visit is Belfast!

I know Shannon is a cesspit too but it is quite close to tourist places, Galway Kerry and the likes

What the fcuk do you mean by that comment, Shannon is a brilliant airport to fly in and out of. Its spotless clean airport

xflyer

I don't think he means the airport, have you seen Shannon 'town'?

owenc

I never once set this thread up to be attacked because of my religion, i have been attacked twice on here. I never once mentioned religion or poltiics. I am tired of this, i just asked a simple question and then you folk start attacking me. You should be ashamed of yourselves. If you want a united ireland that is not the right way to go about it. This thread should be bash northern ireland and protestants.

owenc

Daniel S wrote: »

Ah, in fairness to him he's been working hard all year and needed the break before Christmas

No one should be aloud to call me a "prod bastard" i was deeply offended by his comment and i don't care if he is tired there is no excuse for that. What did i ever do to him, that gave him the excuse to call me that? I didn't even speak to him! I am very shocked about the bitterness used by those from down south. Yous are just as bad as us.

owenc

roundymac wrote: »

Con operate SNN-EWR daily all year round and 11 times a week during the summer season. As this is the winter you would see that it is, as you say, only 7 flights each week.
As for Shannon being in the middle of nowhere where do you think Belfast is? centre of the Universe?

Well the last time i checked they were planning to drop the route in the winter.

owenc

Neworder79 wrote: »

Aldergrove is about 30min from Belfast, slightly more than Shannon is from Limerick. Galway and Cork are also within an hour, and the Shannon region is one of the most industrialised in the country with many US multinationals. It may be the "middle of nowhere" to you, but population densities are spread wider in the Republic and there would be well over 1m in the wider Shannon catchment being the only transatlantic hub outside Dublin. That said some of the demand may be down to the historical position of Shannon as the main TA gateway.

I also know of several family members in Belfast who have used Dublin for TA flights based on cost recently. To them it's no big deal to hop down the motorway for a long haul flight and a more comfortable wide body aircraft also.

The catchment area for belfast is much larger.

testicle

owenc wrote: »

And when did i ever live in derry, i live on the north coast.

Your location in your profile has you in Co Derry.

owenc

testicle wrote: »

Your location in your profile has you in Co Derry.

No my location says county londonderry which is not derry, we don't use counties here, i just put that in. I live on the north coast not derry. Derry is a city not a county.

alan85

owenc wrote: »

No my location says county londonderry which is not derry, we don't use counties here, i just put that in. I live on the north coast not derry. Derry is a city not a county.

Who's "we"? The G.A.A. certainly do have counties North of the border. The U.K. is divided up into counties. That's probably where our original county boundaries came from. Get a grip... If you don't want to be attacked for your political and religious beliefs may I suggest you stay nuetral and stop attracting attention. You have a good bit of growing up to do...

highlydebased

owenc wrote: »

Well the last time i checked they were planning to drop the route in the winter.

They are certainly not! Delta operate summer only

roundymac

owenc wrote: »

Well the last time i checked they were planning to drop the route in the winter.

Well go check again, they fly all year round,, you really want to start getting your facts right before you start posting and making accusations.

byebye

Lads this guy has started loads of threads that allways go down the same road! a bit of a troll with a chip on his shoulder about the republic!

Su Campu

Guys can't we all just get along? This thread's becoming a little personal and off topic. One poster has rightly been banned for personal insult, the way things are going there could be more.

donvito99

Before this thread gets locked for "flogged to death thread" reasons, I'll throw in my armchair opinion.

RoI pop - 5 million.

2 Tatl airports.

One in the South, one in the east.

Both easily accessible.

Both surrounding areas of historical importance.

Both in areas of industrial importance.

Both with a history of US carriers.

OP I really think you should congratulate Shannon on winning and sustaining a reasonable amount of routes instead of being overly annoyed about it and pitying Aldergrove:o;).

I can see more routes starting once this economic yoke blows over. Before 2008 I felt NI was on the cusp of 90s era US investment.

alan85

donvito99 wrote: »

I can see more routes starting once this economic yoke blows over. Before 2008 I felt NI was on the cusp of 90s era US investment.

Op's Daddy says the North of Ireland should get some more TA routes so I'm sure he cares little for your analysis. The same Daddy that had badly planned his PPL and had to pay extra flying said TA routes so he should know best!

What a wackjob...

Chuck Stone

Doesn't it have a lot to do with it's (former at least) strategic and logistically convienient location? The transatlantic flying boats having Foynes as it's first safe landing point?

History of the Transatlantic Gateway
The townland of Rineanna, Co Clare had a good reputation back in the early 1930’s as a spot for wild duck and geese shooting along the north side of the Shannon Estuary. The same muddy flat land near the sea which gave the area its ideal hunting qualities also presented the authorities with the large flat terrain which was perfect for aviation.
Transatlantic aviation in the Shannon Estuary first commenced, however, with a seaplane base at Foynes. In October 1935 the Irish Government took a decision to initiate a survey "to find suitable bases for the operation of seaplanes and landplanes on a transatlantic service". The Department of Defence which provided technical advice on aviation to the Civil Aviation Section of the Department of Industry was given the task.
On 21 November 1935 a survey party set out for the West of Ireland and surveyed sites as far north as Athlone and south to Askeaton. Among the sites for a seaplane base which were considered were: the Shannon just below Limerick, Lough Derg, Lough Corrib, Tralee Bay, Kenmare Bay, Lough Ree and Valentia. But it was Foynes, near the mouth of the Fergus River which was finally selected. Its good sheltered anchorage and its proximity to long open stretches of water convinced the surveyors Foynes was the best choice.
During the surveying for the land site, the team split up in their efforts to find a suitable location. From Knockbeagh Point, one of the groups discovered that there was a land area to the west which, though wet was suitable for landplanes. The survey team reconvened in Athlone and having examined the reports went to Rineanna to survey.
Following a satisfactory report, the Government approved the choice of site and directed that work should begin immediately. The first priority was drainage and work commenced by laying some 135 miles of pipes. Four grass runways were marked out, the longest being a mile in length and four hundred yards wide, running almost southwest to northeast. The other three grass runways were two hundred yards wide and were laid out sot that there was an angle of approximately 45 degrees between each adjacent runway.
Colonel Charles E. Lindbergh was reputed to be in Europe as an agent of the U.S. airline Pan Am surveying locations to establish an Atlantic gateway into Europe from America. In December 1936 Lindbergh flew over the site in his Miles Mohawk and later walked over part of the area with Minister for Defence, Frank Aiken, and officials from the Departments of Industry and Commerce, Defence and the Board of Works. Great satisfaction was expressed concerning the suitability of the site.

http://www.shannonairport.com/gns/about-us/media-centre/history-of-shannon-airport.aspx

donvito99

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Doesn't it have a lot to do with it's (former at least) strategic and logistically convienient location? The transatlantic flying boats having Foynes as it's first safe landing point?

Of course. Shannon has been proved to work by US carriers. Is the OP suggesting taking all routes from Shannon to an airport that hasn't been tried and tested, so to speak....


....but they're always packed though

andy_g

Ok time to get back on topic please lads.

Owenc. Please leave out The North Vs South debate's as i have just been looking at your history here on boards and it seems to be full of it.

Any more religous/politics regarding North/South will result in a month ban and infraction from the forums.

You have all been warned.

Andy