Czech nymphing

whelzer

Any of you guys/gals tried this on our rivers.

I have for the past 3 years - all in all quite sucessfull early season when there's a bit of water/colour in the river.

I'm a great fan of Ollie Edwards and just copy his approach; 9-10 foot leader with 3 flies equally spaced apart tied straight to braided flyline connector - no need for a leader. The flies need be heavy and slim, you want them to get down asap (hence no leader).

When it comes to casting its a big learning curve 'cos you don't! No more than 2-3 feet of flyline out of tip and you flick your flies upstream. It took me a lot of patience and confidence to stick with it the first time around (and a good bit of slagging from pals)....Takes are shown by a dip, pause or slow down in the braided leader and you do get a sixth sense thing going on (alluded to in Hares Ear thread) as to when a take will occur.

Caught lots of trout from all rivers I tried bar the Liffey (this river deserves a thread in itself!), the Nore, Suir, Kells Blackwater (first flick 2 years ago caught 1.5lb fish), the Fane, some smaller rivers up north aswell.

Shame we don't have grayling here as it I believer its great winter sport.

Give it a shot next year - it works...

slowburner

Sounds a bit like good old fashioned upstream wet fly fishing but with a weighted nymph.
Some of the old wet flies were designed to penetrate the surface film quickly without being weighted. They nearly always used soft game hackles tied sparsely. 'Snipe and purple' and 'grouse and orange' spring to mind. Lovely materials with lots of life in a streamy water.

Daroxtar

Doesn't czech nymphing (or french nymphing either) seriously question the need to creep slowly out of sight along the river bank. I mean you're catching fish literally within feet of where you are fishing. I know fish get spooked - I've see scores of fish dart for cover when you walk along the bank but yet using this method you get fish sometimes swimming right between your legs to get at the fly. Just wondering if all the stealth is really necessary...

For the record I've had some success not using specific Czech nymphs but fishing this way using a gold head nymph on the Enfield Blackwater and the Stoneyford.

slowburner

Daroxtar wrote: »

Doesn't czech nymphing (or french nymphing either) seriously question the need to creep slowly out of sight along the river bank. I mean you're catching fish literally within feet of where you are fishing. I know fish get spooked - I've see scores of fish dart for cover when you walk along the bank but yet using this method you get fish sometimes swimming right between your legs to get at the fly. Just wondering if all the stealth is really necessary...

For the record I've had some success not using specific Czech nymphs but fishing this way using a gold head nymph on the Enfield Blackwater and the Stoneyford.

When you are on the river bank two things happen visually, to spook fish: firstly, you are silhouetted against the sky - fish are watchful of the zone which contrasts land with sky.
Secondly, the fishes' field of vision will pick you up much more easily.




But when you are in the river and fishing upstream, you are behind the fish, much lower on the horizon and probably against a leafy background.

Of course, none of these things matter if you cause excessive noise.

The late Dick (JR) Harris once told me that he was certain that the colour of your fly line could influence your catch rate! Some modern fly lines are fluorescent - if you watch anglers casting with these lines against a dark background, it certainly makes you think.

whelzer

This is an in the river method. Bit of colour helps IMHO. Stealthy approach is definitely required. No jumping in or walking straight up the good spots. Nice and handy flicking everywhere.

I reckon line colour and more so sheen levels from both rod and line make a difference. Duller the better.

Re nymphs to use. Some actual Czech nymphs are huge. Size 6 hook with lots of lead. Nearly fainted when I seen a real one! These tend to be sacrificial in order to get the other down and in the zone ASAP. This is one the big differences btn this and normal upstream wet fly or spider fishing.

slowburner

Size 6!!!
Ever catch anything on these big lumps?

whelzer

Size 6 no way - too big for me, altough on on really fast deep water I can see how you use them. I do carry some size 8s though. Probably have caught on those.

This description below (not mine) gives far more detail than I'd manage....
I've come across very few (Irish) anglers here using this method which seems strange seeing as it works in those early months (march/april) when it can be tough going. If a see some fish rising the nymphs are off and I'll instantly change to dry/emerger tactics!

Czech Nymphing Fly Fishing

Czech nymphing was introduced to the UK in the 1990 World Championships. The Czech team beat the UK International teams on the Welsh River Dee. The Czechs caught grayling in numbers from places that were thought impossibly fast or deep previously. This sent shockwaves through the world of competition angling. The technique is today considered to be pretty much a standard - an essential part of every grayling anglers armoury.

Firstly, let's take a look at the flies, the Czech nymph has many, many variations, but all are based upon one simple design, utilising a heavily-leaded hook. They are intended to be fished very deep, in fast water, weight & a slim profile are important.
Tactics

The water will be fast water, normally considered unfishable on the fly, You'll want to get your flies as near to the bottom as possible. Do not fish with more than about 3-4' of flyline outside the tip ring. This is difficult to do, as the fly fisherman's natural tendency is to shoot a bit of line. This is extremely short range fishing, fish will be close to your rod! Do not cast conventionally, there is not enough line & the nymphs are far too heavy - the nymphs that provide the casting weight. Use a flicking action to throw the nymphs upstream at an angle of about 30 degrees. Done correctly, the 'flick cast' will extend the leader so that the nymphs lie in a straight line upstream. They will immediately start to sink rapidly as the current brings the flies back down towards you. To stay in touch with the flies, don't retrieve any line, just track round with the rod, raising & lowering the tip as appropriate. Watch your indicator very closely! Any hesitation, draw, stutter, check - strike it immediately. Because of the fast nature of the water grayling and trout will have little chance to closely examine the fly and hit quickly. Fan cast the water ahead of you and, if no action, take a pace or two upstream & repeat. This is fast fishing, each cast is fished out in 5-10 seconds and you're straight into the next one, a lightweight rod helps the weary arms. Often it is often useful to let the flies come down below you and allow them to fish for a few moments as they come round the bend and onto 'the dangle'. Keep the rod tip above the indicator & steadily 'lean' downstream, dropping the tip as you do so. This can be a particularly effective tactic, taking one or two more fish out of water that has already been worked. Obviously, with this technique you do not need to restrict yourself to Czech nymphs. The key is to use heavily-weighted flies, so goldheads, caddis will do just as well. 'Matching the hatch' is not a priority with this fishing! This is an active searching method and, as such, technique is more important than specific pattern.

slowburner

Maybe this method will extend the fishing season on rivers.
Early spring is always hard going, for me any way.

experimenter

Got a taste of this for the first time this year, looking forward to next season, and purchasing my 10ft #3WT....

For anyone starting off,

Czech Nymph Fly Fishing Guide

http://robbiephelan.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.html

ironbluedun

like all of these things the methods of presenting the fly are down to personal preference, and where you fish.

i prefer to fish with nymphs in a traditional upstream manner. i have used the larger czech nymph in the traditional manner ie casting short casts upstream and they work great like that too.....but as said the larger ones are too heavy for this style and a size 12 czech nymph hook is good for this style of traditional upstream casting rather than pure czech nymphing flicking the flies.

ironbluedun

whelzer wrote: »

I reckon line colour and more so sheen levels from both rod and line make a difference. Duller the better.

i am not so sure about flyline colour and rod colour, but yes the duller the better, why not a dull rod or line wont do any harm. But the fish sees the movement of the rod and line in the air rather than the colour of it.

this is why short casts are better, because short casts = less false casts therefore the fish are less likely to see the line in the air moving over and back up and down the river.

another reason for the effectiveness of czech nymphing possibly, no false casting or rod 'waving'

coolwings

I have always been interested but never given serious time to it.

That's because I have this tendency to go to the flats and try for big fish that I have previously identified. And those fish won't cooperate by letting me within 30 feet!

Euronymphing seems to me like a sunny day small fish fast water bundle of tricks. Of course that makes it ideal for winning competitions where under the rules there are more points per fish than there is points per weight or length of fish.

Does anyone using the czech/french technique do well for large fish?
There are a couple of locations with special features where I think it might be good for big trout, but time and distance has prevented me testing that theory yet.

ironbluedun

coolwings wrote: »

Does anyone using the czech/french technique do well for large fish?
.

i would doubt its effectiveness for larger trout, its hard to get close to larger fish in gliding or flat water.

whelzer

You wouldn't typically use it in flat or glide type water - at any time of the year. In my experience in early season, if the water is up on normal levels and slightly coloured, the larger fish move into the places you'd not normally expect. I've had large fish in April (not using CN) in mid stream, rocky, deep fast water....more on this later.

madred006

I have tried it with a little success and also french nymphing ,but the set up will change at an alarming rate when it come to competition fishing leader set up differs some tie hook to hook and even with french nymphing its now thought that if u leave a 2 inch dropper from your parachute and then attatch nymph its more successfull.Been talking to a few in the know;)and they say the checqs have a new method ,it can be a great way of catching big numbers of small fish which when it comes to competition fishing is ideal.this year on leinster rivers one guy caught 36 trout all over 9 inchs and destroyed all other competitors ,but when the all ireland came i think he drew a blank in very different and difficult circumstances .

premiercad

whelzer wrote: »

You wouldn't typically use it in flat or glide type water - at any time of the year. In my experience in early season, if the water is up on normal levels and slightly coloured, the larger fish move into the places you'd not normally expect. I've had large fish in April (not using CN) in mid stream, rocky, deep fast water....more on this later.

I found this out early last year but for different conditions, river was very low right from early in the season, so low that big fish moved into the deepest fast water they could find. Caught some big trout under my feet in 4-5 foot of water with no fly line in the water Czech style. I still haven't found the technique for a nymphing trout in dead flat clear water though. All these euro nymph techniques need a riffle of somewhat fast water to be successful I feel.

coolwings

premiercad wrote: »

I found this out early last year but for different conditions, river was very low right from early in the season, so low that big fish moved into the deepest fast water they could find. Caught some big trout under my feet in 4-5 foot of water with no fly line in the water Czech style. I still haven't found the technique for a nymphing trout in dead flat clear water though. All these euro nymph techniques need a riffle of somewhat fast water to be successful I feel.

I think you nailed it right there.
This method is popular in continental countries like US and Europe, where summer heat is more extreme. But in Ireland's rain fed rivers there is normally less fluctuation of water levels and temperatures.
So Irish trout prefer to stay in the flat pools during summer and they still have adequate oxygen to breathe.
But in a year when we get a continental summer, trout are forced to go looking for faster water, just the places where the euronymphing style works best.

Now I know when I will give it a serious try in 2012. The dog days: low water, bright skies!