Question for cyclists who wear high-vis

monument

How many times in the past year or two have motorists endangered you? For example, passed too close to you, cut you off / turned right after passing you, swing their door open on front of you, or otherwise endangered you.

Did your bike also have lights on it? How much did the lights cost or how bright are they?

If you don't also use a good bright set of lights, why not?

adodsk

I don't wear hi-viz but i've no problem with folk wearing it if they want. The Hi-viz or lights debate is all a bit pointless anyway if the drivers don't look where they're going in the first place.

I have 2 sets of Lupine Piko at 750 lumen each (1 bar mounted running at full power, 1 helmet mounted less than half power) and a driver still pulled out across the cycle lane as he was exiting Clonskeagh Hospital recently just because the line of cars into town wasn't moving. He didn't even look for cyclists. He got quite a fright when he finally realised I was heading for his passenger door, although I had anticipated his move and slowed accordingly and just rolled up gently towards him.

pmcd22

I have got Aldi's finest. About 6euros worth. Also picked up reflective arm/leg bands and which have mini red lights on them

Clothes i usually go out with have a reflective strip on it and also wear big reflective along the back.

Not working is the main reason for not shelling out for top quality lights but i also get out during the day which doesn't be too dark.

How many times have motors endangered me? I usually end up cycling up in the mountain area or quality back roads. So wouldn't be endangered that much.

Im not around a built up area and always look to avoid my town. Nearly got knocked once by a car parked on double yellow lines and swung open the car door while i was passing.

HivemindXX

monument wrote: »

How many times in the past year or two have motorists endangered you? For example, passed too close to you, cut you off / turned right after passing you, swing their door open on front of you, or otherwise endangered you.

This is quite a subjective measure though. We already know some people get very uptight about things that others might not consider a big deal. I cycle at least 100k a week and I would say it is rare for me to actually be endangered. Perhaps a couple of times a year. I have incidents where someone had done something that required me to take evasive action (like slowing down) a couple of times a week. This happens just as much during daylight as at night. It's much more to do with people driving like dicks and less to do with them not seeing me though. This sort of thing happens to motorists regularly as well, although I suspect it's more common for cyclists since a significant minority of motorists believe, in their guts, that cyclists are second class road users.

I pretty much constantly wear a yellow Altura Night Vision Evo jacket which is pretty eye searing. I've got a Cateye TD-LD1000 on the back (that's the one with 10 LEDs) and a dynamo operated B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo on the front (this is roughly similar to the front lights the Dublin Bikes have). I consider myself pretty visible by any standards. This doesn't stop people shifting the blame to me when someone does drive like a dick in my vicinity of course.

For reference if am going somewhere that I feel I need to wear a respectable looking coat I wear a black (shock!) jacket with nothing reflective about it at all. I don't notice much difference in how traffic treats me from when I wear my Night Vision. The black jacket would pretty much only be used in Dublin city centre at night so I don't know what difference it might make during the day when high-viz is more useful in my opinion.

I don't know what traffic might treat me like without lights since the concept of cycling after dark with no lights give me the sweats.

Stark

Have a cycling jacket with reflective strips (and lights). Tbh, with the typical attitudes I've encountered, I'd be better off if the motorists in question didn't see me.

smacl

I wear a DHB high viz jacket in the winter and a similar gilet in the summer. I also have pretty good B&M front and rear lights. In the past two years, I've been cut off just once at a roundabout and had no other near misses. The larger part of my cycling is on rural roads for leisure purposes, with a total of about 1-2 hours per week on urban and suburban roads on dark evenings and early mornings (not rush hour, not city centre).

The jacket is primarily for wind and rain, the high viz is a bonus. I cycle for transport and leisure purposes, and don't care so much what I look like on a bike. It's comfy kit and does the job, so fashion police be damned. Only major drawback is that it's hiding my nice new boards jersey, but that'll be a middle layer until the spring anyway.

ednwireland

front 900 lumen light (enough to get cars to dip there lights when they come the other way

rear 3 led blt, 1/2 watt smart, 1 watt smart (retina burner) (flashing red bar plugs but batteries nearly gone no idea if they are any use)

hi viz whatever is on my clothes, nothing bought specifically

monument

HivemindXX wrote: »

This is quite a subjective measure though.

Subjective safety is very important to people.

The actions of others or road designs etc become a problem when people feel endangered. Even if people have different tolerance levels, what is important is when the individual feels endangered (of course, avoiding actual harm is more important).

stas

Been hit by a car into the child seat at the back (no child involved) and I did anticipate this as I saw her not slowing down to the yield sign - so I didn't even fall. Had lights on - front and rear, but since she was coming at me from the left side, they were apparently useless, not at the speed she was travelling anyhow. She did tell me when she was able to speak again that she would've seen me if I was wearing the hi-viz. But of course!

I didn't wear the hi-viz cause mine is waterproof and it was way too hot in it at the time.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

How many times in the past year or two have motorists endangered you? For example, passed too close to you, cut you off / turned right after passing you, swing their door open on front of you, or otherwise endangered you.

Did your bike also have lights on it? How much did the lights cost or how bright are they?

If you don't also use a good bright set of lights, why not?

You'd think you'd give your own lights if you're asking others. Also it depends where you cycle. Dark roads, bright city streets etc.

Altura Night Vision Waterproof Jacket (no rucksac) with panniers with big reflective panels. Rear Smart Superflash 0.5W, Cateye LD-610 Rear , SL-LD100 on Rear Jacket. On the front, I've replaced a Cateye HL-EL530 and Smart Polaris 5 LED with two of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1w-2-mode-50-lumen-led-bike-light-with-mount-4-aaa-18307 which give better spread of light in the park and back roads than the EL530. They were so cheap I had to try them. Battery life with AAA's will be the main problem. The EL530 lasts forever on 4xAA's. With 1W light you notice car's noticing them in the city, and not pulling out.

I choose my lights based on seeing what I found most visible on other bikes I see on the commute. I also find I notice hi viz jackets much better than ninja's with lights but knackered batteries. I don't think Hi Viz should be compulsory though. Lights are an a lot of cyclist don't have them.

I got knocked down by a taxi who didn't see me despite all the above. He did a 180 without looking from parked across 4 lanes. I wasn't even in his lane. Pedestrian who ran over to help, asked him how could he not see me as I looked like a Xmas tree. Other than I have very few near misses. Its mainly about reading the traffic, and road position for me.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

You'd think you'd give you own lights if you're asking others.

I don't wear high-vis.

Payton

I work shifts so up early and home late depending on what shift, I travel about 16km per day. I wear an Endura hi-vis wind/rain proof jacket, I have a hi-vis "Hump bag" over my back pack, Cateye static and flashing front lights and a Cateye flashing rear light.
Have I been hit? Yes but not badly. Near misses? Yes nearly weekly. Basically I put It down to bad driving. The girl who did hit me was on the phone and was over heard saying "hang on I'll ring you back in 5, I've just hit someone....mmmmwwwwaaaahhhh" @#*king crazy!!!!

trihead

A lot of the jackets/ belts than people buy and wear are pretty useless - its the reflective strips that are needed and actually work - some of the gear has little/none of this.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

I don't wear high-vis.

I know but if you're advocating that you need decent lights > hi vis its only fair.

rainbow kirby

I wear a hi-vis jacket and have lights on my bike (relatively inexpensive Cateye ones, can't remember exact model) - all my commuter cycling is done through Dublin 2 and Dublin 8 so there is literally no escaping heavy traffic.

If I can go more than a day or two without some dickhead in a taxi driving like he wants to kill me, I am very surprised - have had a few near misses, every single one was due to a taxi or a bus.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

I know but if you're advocating that you need decent lights > hi vis its only fair.

How so? How is high-vis only fair?

triggermortis

I have a rain shell that is hi-viz, my reasoning that if its raining it makes me easier to be seen, and I have small lights front and rear that can be set to flash (about 5 euro each from Decathlon) but I don't commute or ride in the dark (yet), it's purely daytime leisure riding, out in the sticks. I prefer to avoid towns as there is nearly always an issue with other road users.

Hmmzis

I have hi-viz features on my shoes and gloves and I have a hi-viz backpack cover. If it's raining then also the rain jacket is hi-viz.
For the first 1500km this summer I was wearing the above (jacket only when raining) and I had quite a few "interesting encounters".

Then I started cycling with a Cateye light set (nothing special, not too bright). Both in blinking mode, nothing much changed. One lady managed to pull out right in front of me and that in turn caused me to brake so hard that while going over the handlebars I bruised something in the pelvic area (was sore for a week).

Then in October I got some decent lights. Front 1200 lumen full beam, 600 lumen half beam and 1200 lumen strobe. Rear red strobe (not as bright as front). I use the front in strobe mode in the mornings and full beam in the evenings (the strobe in the dark makes me dizzy).
That might have done the trick. I've had cases where cars have moved out of my way and backed away into side roads and drives to clear the cycle path. Also, haven't got any motorbikes or scooters veering into the bus lane right in front of me. There have been some cases where car drivers are clearly confused about what is going on behind them but in those cases they just stop and wait to see what happens (I prefer this to being moved down one of them).
Another good thing about the strobe in the mornings is that also other cyclist's hi-viz stuff lights up like a row of Christmas trees and most drivers seem to be more aware that there are cyclists on the road (they go noticeably slower and make wider berths around them).

rollingscone

I have a high vis altura jacket, mostly for dull days, it does help people see you in daylight.
Have a high vis hump cover that I always use for protecting my backpack from rain.

Have knog strobes front & back and wheel lights to make myself more noticeable in the dark but that's because I'm purely a city cyclist. I'd want more powerful lights if I was heading out into unlit roads.

I also have a black lightweight rainshell which has superior reflective strips to my hi-vis

dquirke1

I do most of my cycling by night on unlit country roads and find that decent lights are far more effective than high-vis. I've often seen cars dip their headlights while they are still around a bend and cant see me directly because of my front light shining on the ditches/trees. Once their lights are dipped, high-vis/reflective jackets make little difference anyway.

Around the city, I use a 10w HID front light, 1/2w cateye flasher on the back and a flashing petzel headtorch. I generally wear a bright yellow (not high-vis or reflective) jersey.
I find that most drivers slow down and give me plenty of space by night. I've had far more run ins and near misses by day when the roads are busier and drivers have so much more to try and be aware of.

SweetCaliber

In my opinion I honestly think it's the cyclists fault. Okay fair enough there are ignorant drivers on the road but you could be driving down the road and all of a sudden a cyclist comes zooming off the path!

I am a cyclist myself, if you stick to the rules of the road, make way for oncoming traffic and wear the correct gear then you should have no problem on the road at all.

Front and back lights are also essential, much better then the high visible jackets but that doesn't mean you shouldn't wear them. Safety first!

BeerNut

monument wrote: »

How many times in the past year or two have motorists endangered you? For example, passed too close to you, cut you off / turned right after passing you, swing their door open on front of you, or otherwise endangered you.

A couple; not many. Almost got taken out by a left-turning horse on Clanbrassil Street yesterday, though. It's not a dignified way to go.

monument wrote: »

Did your bike also have lights on it?

Did? My bike did/does have lights on it.

monument wrote: »

How much did the lights cost or how bright are they?

The front-rear set was €15-20 and there's another one that came with my helmet. I only cycle on lit streets.

monument wrote: »

If you don't also use a good bright set of lights, why not?

Wait... Are you implying that some people think that hi-vis is a substitute for lights? I've a pretty low estimation of the road sense of many cyclists in Dublin, but no-one actually believes that, do they?

coolbeans

BeerNut wrote: »

monument wrote: »

Wait... Are you implying that some people think that hi-vis is a substitute for lights? I've a pretty low estimation of the road sense of many cyclists in Dublin, but no-one actually believes that, do they?

Clearly, looking around me daily, this is precisely the case. You shouldn't underestimate the stupidity of people, they'll amaze you.

MediaMan

I commute cross-city, wearing hi-vis jacket, bright LED lights front and rear. Most mornings I encounter one or more hazards, but thus far have always been able to anticipate and avoid. Main issues are:
- peds walking onto road without looking, especially if on the phone or listening to music
- cars entering or exiting side roads or especially schools, without checking for bikes in the cycle lanes - have seem several cyclists nearly run down by this one
- bikes(!) crossing, merging or doing some other manouver without looking to see if they might be on a collision course

Daylight or night doesn't matter for the above, in fact at night there's less of these issues and being lit up helps. But at night have seen some other classics, like a cycling ninja coming against me on an on-road cycle lane resulting in evasive action all round, even though I had lights on.

Darkglasses

I have a great high-vis/reflective backpack cover and I wear multiple reflective armbands (My indicators). I have pretty good lights, but I don't see the extra reflective stuff as doing any harm. I certainly appreciate the water backpack cover regardless. I don't think I've been in danger of any really serious injury, there have been a few bad overtakings by cars which, had they been worse judged, could've caused me a bigger problems, but I've not been actually been knocked over in a good long time.

BeerNut

coolbeans wrote: »

Clearly, looking around me daily, this is precisely the case.

I think I see (just about) more people in the dark with neither rather than just hi-vis.

mp31

Hmmzis wrote: »

...Then in October I got some decent lights. Front 1200 lumen full beam, 600 lumen half beam and 1200 lumen strobe....

1200 lumen(s) :eek:

What lights did you get?

Do they dazzle oncoming traffic when running in full power?

mp31

ednwireland wrote: »

.... rear 3 led blt, 1/2 watt smart, 1 watt smart (retina burner) (flashing red bar plugs but batteries nearly gone no idea if they are any use)

Do you have all three rear lights on the seat post or mounted in different positions?

Kintarō Hattori

On the trip to the train station in the morning on the commuter I have a 3W front light on full and a Smart 0.5W on the rear. My backpack isn't high-vis but does have 3M material worked into the front of it. If I'm cycling into town then I'll wear a hi-vis jacket.



The one and hopefully only time I was hit by a car I was on the Cube and had the high-vis jacket, a Smart front light and a 0.5W on the rear. I was on the main road and she was entering from a side road.... but she just pulled out onto the main road and the bike hit the front wing of her car. I had been watching her and slowed so it wasn't a very hard impact thankfully. When I asked her how she managed to miss me she replied 'I just didn't see you'. I think she was looking for other cars specifically rather than other road users in general.

reallyunique

I currently run two lights up front, a Smart somethingorother and a Cateye justalight, one flashing and one static. Rear lighting is usually Dunnes Stores finest on the seatpost and some old light I found in a box attached to my backpack. No High-Vis.

The only light I ever had that made a noticeable difference to my visibility was a USE Joystick, helmet mounted. On full beam that thing got noticed. I found that I got a bit more space on the road and, as it was helmet mounted, I could flash it in the direction of a car door or mirror to get a bit of attention. Ordinary lights seem to make no difference to visibility.

As a driver I can't say that I've ever run into a parked car or hit a pedestrian or any of the other unlit, low-vis items on a street. My car comes with several powerful lights that point in the very direction I'm going. It's almost like that's what they're designed for and they light things up a treat. Having said that I also find that when I'm cycling and have no headlights (Joystick was lost in a baggage-handling incident) I can still see parked cars, cars driving with no lights on, pedestrians etc. Perhaps I'm just paying attention. (Why isn't there a thing that automatically turns the lights on in cars when it gets dark?)

In town, a cheap light is a big help but beyond that anything less than a blinding light that attracts attention does next to nothing for visibility. If a driver can't see you then they're not looking at you. The fact that you're dressed like a 1960's alien robot won't help if they're staring at something else.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

How so? How is high-vis only fair?

Its only fair you answer your own question and say what lights you have..:rolleyes:

BostonB

Personally I think a hi viz jacket makes cyclist stand out from the background, even in the daylight. Same with bright colored clothing. Especially if you catch them in your peripheral vision vs someone in dark clothes and perhaps their lights aren't in pointed your direction.

monument

Versions of these on the front and back, two sometimes on the back of going further. On flashing...

Front (the 5 or 6 LED version) :http://www.tricycleinfo.com/planet-bike-beamer-5-led-bicycle-light-with-quick-cam-bracket.html

Rear: http://www.bikesomewhere.com/images/large/705A3A47-F1F0-408F-1668D8BB6A0F2685.jpg

BeerNut wrote: »

monument wrote: »

If you don't also use a good bright set of lights, why not?

Wait... Are you implying that some people think that hi-vis is a substitute for lights? I've a pretty low estimation of the road sense of many cyclists in Dublin, but no-one actually believes that, do they?

Yes, daily I see people with high-vis (and/or helmets) but without lights at all or some with very dull lights.

smacl

I reckon the day glo part of hi-viz are really there for daytime. People how don't like them say they're garish and look awful, even from a distance, make you stand out in a crowd, etc.. This suggests to me that they are adding some visibility under these conditions. While reflective material is a bonus for dark and semi-dark conditions, for visibility its obviously all about good lights fore and aft.

For those of you without high viz or bright colours, who do have lights, when do you turn them on? If its very dull out, but not night time do your lights go on?

BeerNut

monument wrote: »

Yes, daily I see people with high-vis (and/or helmets) but without lights at all or some with very dull lights.

I think it's a leap to say that these people think hi-vis is a substitute for lights. What little remains of my faith in humanity depends on it being a leap.

droidus

smacl wrote: »

I reckon the day glo part of hi-viz are really there for daytime. People how don't like them say they're garish and look awful, even from a distance, make you stand out in a crowd, etc.. This suggests to me that they are adding some visibility under these conditions. While reflective material is a bonus for dark and semi-dark conditions, for visibility its obviously all about good lights fore and aft.

For those of you without high viz or bright colours, who do have lights, when do you turn them on? If its very dull out, but not night time do your lights go on?

I always have them on, day or night. Only wear h-viz in the rain.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

...
Yes, daily I see people with high-vis (and/or helmets) but without lights at all or some with very dull lights.

Theres a lot more on my route with nothing. Or even just a couple of very dim lights.

monument

BeerNut wrote: »

I think it's a leap to say that these people think hi-vis is a substitute for lights. What little remains of my faith in humanity depends on it being a leap.

It's the only logical conclusion I can come to for most of them.

Sure some may be put off because of the price of bike, but I often see middle class looking people with helmets and high-vis while also breaking the law somehow, including having no lights after dark.

HG Wells said: "When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race."

But when I see an adult on a bicycle with a helmet or high-vis and also breaking traffic lights / without bike lights / cycling on the footpath, I do despair for the future of the human race.

I'll ask a few (nicely and politely) just so we can smash all your faith in humanity.

rich.d.berry

I don't think that the dangerous driving I've encountered has anything to do with how visible I am. I think that it's down to poor perception of speed and distance. I think that most people who post on this forum travel rather more rapidly than the average cyclist. This confuses motorists who are used to the more sedate pace.

At junctions, I've sometimes been prominently in the centre of the lane, made eye contact with the driver waiting to pull out, and they still pulled out in front of me. I don't think they realise how fast I'm travelling.

When motorists get used to passing the average, or less than average, cyclist tootling along at 20-25 km/h quickly and easily, if on the same stretch of road we're travelling at 35-45 km/h we take longer to pass. That, in my opinion, is why motorists sometimes overtake in the face of oncoming traffic and either scare the approaching driver or close up on the cyclist prematurely.

Those who pass too closely are usually being aggressive and are attempting to make a point that I'm taking up too much room. This has been confirmed on a number of occasions when I've caught up with them in stationary traffic and asked them politely (no sarcasm, I always try to be friendly and polite to motorists) if they can leave cyclists a bit more room when passing. The normal reaction has been "But you were in the middle of the road!". I don't even try to explain about cycling wide of the "door zone" or whatever. They are normally too defensive or aggressive for a logical discussion. So I normally leave with a friendly "OK, I just thought I'd ask".

There have been a couple of occasions where the same driver who I've had my friendly chat with, and who has been defensive or aggressive, has allowed me more room at later a time. I've made a point of stopping and thanking them when next I see them stopped. It always seems to be appreciated, and no sign of defensiveness or aggression.

Oh, and by the way. I always use lights when appropriate and wear bright, reflective cycling jackets, the most garish of which is my Altura Night Vision which I tend to where if it's cold and wet.

neris

Out cycling one night earlier in this year nearly had a run into another cyclist on a cycle lane who was just wearing a high viz vest. only saw him at last minute coz my front light hit his reflective strip. vests are pointless on their own as others with lights cant see them far off

HivemindXX

smacl wrote: »

For those of you without high viz or bright colours, who do have lights, when do you turn them on? If its very dull out, but not night time do your lights go on?

I tend to put them on in heavy rain or if it is even slightly dark. It can't hurt to have them on and better to err on the side of caution. I personally think heavy rain during daylight are the most dangerous conditions. Visibility is poor but lots of motorists don't put their ligths on meaning reflective stuff doesn't help. Breaking distances, especially my own, are worsened. People seem to be more frustrated and make more dodgy maneuvers than usual.

lee3155 wrote: »

In my opinion I honestly think it's the cyclists fault. Okay fair enough there are ignorant drivers on the road but you could be driving down the road and all of a sudden a cyclist comes zooming off the path!

Sure, sometimes it's the cyclists fault. Is that what you meant, because it's not what you said.

lee3155 wrote: »

I am a cyclist myself, if you stick to the rules of the road, make way for oncoming traffic and wear the correct gear then you should have no problem on the road at all.

Based on this it seems that you think it is always the cyclists fault when they get hit. This is clearly not the case and frankly it is insulting to everyone who has ever been injured or had someone killed as a result of dangerous driving through no fault of their own. You might not believe that ever happens but you are simply wrong.

smacl

monument wrote: »

It's the only logical conclusion I can come to for most of them.

Yet your straw poll here, were it representative of broader usage patterns, suggests that the vast majority of those that wear high viz also wear lights.

When I see an adult on a bicycle with a helmet or high-vis and also breaking traffic lights / without bike lights / cycling on the footpath, I do despair for the future of the human race.

You're implicitly drawing a correlation between use of high viz and / or a helmet here with breaking traffic lights / no lights / cycling on the footpath. Perhaps your opening question should be 'for those of you who cycle at night with no lights, break traffic lights, and cycle on the foot path, do you wear high viz and / or a helmet?' :rolleyes:

Lights on a bike are mandatory, and rightly so. High viz or helmets aren't, and while I use both myself, that's no more than a personal choice based around my own perceived risks and benefits. Using lack of proper lights as an argument for not wearing high viz or a helmet seems pretty weak until you can provide strong correlation that a significant number of people substitute one for the other. I for one don't believe such a correlation exists, and am struggling to see logic in your arguments as they're presented here.

BostonB

smacl wrote: »

Yet your straw poll here, were it representative of broader usage patterns, suggests that the vast majority of those that wear high viz also wear lights. ...

+1

A while back they gave out lots of free Hi viz vest to cyclists. Another thing I noticed is that a lot of HiViz seem to have logo's, and company names on them. People haven't bought them specifically and not bought lights. They just picked up something free.

Perhaps they should give out a load of lights preferably not battery powered ones.

oflahero

BostonB wrote: »

Perhaps they should give out a load of lights preferably not battery powered ones.

Yeah, I've wondered for a while about the viability of the RSA picking up a bunch of these wholesale off DealExtreme (2 lids a light) to hand out to ninjas.

They still have the 'awkward battery' problem, but those things last for ages. Also available in red.

BostonB

something like this I was thinking.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/lights/sets/product/sl100-flash-compact-28244/