Small Claims Court & BMW

joshlismore

Hi

I was considering going to the small claims court as a part failed on my e90 which in turn caused the engine controller to fail. Basically the housing filled up with water because the drainage system failed.

Has anyone had experience with car makers and the small claims court?

It's going to cost me 1900 euro to fix because their design failed and I'm fairly p*issed to say the least.

Any advice be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Josh

whippet

joshlismore wrote: »

Hi



Has anyone had experience with car makers and the small claims court?


Any advice be greatly appreciated

did you buy the car directly from BMW or from a dealer?

As far as I know .. your have no claim at all against BMW, you would have to take your dealer to the SSC

What year is the car?

joshlismore

the car is 07.

The problem i see with it is that I think this is a design fault, the part failed to keep water out and this caused a major failure of the engine controller as a result. If the main dealer is cleaning these out during there service of the cars that they get, should other owners who use private mechanic be not made aware of this?

As for servicing it with a main dealer. I don't think that voids any warranty. I mean when you buy a car the basic warranty you get is not dependent on where you service the car.

See when I went to the main dealer last week they told me 1560 euro for the replacement of the enginer controller, but then they rang me back to say they have to replace the housing as well, which makes me think they weren't confident of putting in the new controller with existing housing. Which leads me to believe that the housing has caused all this.

I'm a manufacturing engineer by trade, all I do is investigate fairly and I'm suspicious of everyone!

whippet

joshlismore wrote: »

The problem i see with it is that I think this is a design fault, the part failed to keep water out and this caused a major failure of the engine controller as a result. If the main dealer is cleaning these out during there service of the cars that they get, should other owners who use private mechanic be not made aware of this?

BMW would argue that Independent Mechanics should make themselves aware of this.

joshlismore wrote: »

As for servicing it with a main dealer. I don't think that voids any warranty. I mean when you buy a car the basic warranty you get is not dependent on where you service the car.

It won't void the warranty unless spurious parts are used etc.

joshlismore wrote: »

which makes me think they weren't confident of putting in the new controller with existing housing. Which leads me to believe that the housing has caused all this.

It could be that once the original housing is opened it breaks a seal which should keep it waterproof and it would be advisable to replace it with a new housing / seal to ensure that it won't leak again.


From what you are saying it seems like the problem has arisen due to a build up of dirt not being cleaned away from a water channel. BMW mechanics will clean it away as they probably have had a memo circulated, which is fair enough. Should BMW be responsible for informing every independent mechanic of this swell ? or should indy mechanics be capable of finding this out themselves? That is the real question.

Anyway, since you didn't buy the car from BMW you don't have a case to bring to the SCC.

you could try a civil case in a 'real' court, however by the time you get BMW to court you would have paid a lot more than the cost of the repair.

mdebets

OSI wrote: »

The car is outside of the warranty, and if you didn't get it serviced by a BMW authorised workshop, they can quite easily say the mechanic you used didn't perform the service adequately.

But he still has his statutory rights, where it doesn't matter where it was serviced.

OP What you have to do is to get a report from another mechanic, where it states how the fault happened (design fault, fault because of wrong maintenance, fault due to not enough maintenance, normal wear and tear). If it is one of the last two, there is nothing you can do, you have to pay for it. If it is the first reason, you have to sue the dealer who sold you the car (not BMW, as you don't have a contract with them, unless you bought it directly from BMW). If it is due to wrong maintenance, sue the garage that performed the maintenance.

Tea 1000

Your arguement about it being a design fault will be quickly countered with "BMW have manufactured tens of thousands of three series', none of which have shown this specific fault, therefore this is a one-off probably due to sub-standard maintainence and/or care."
Then what will you say? If you could prove it's happening in 2 out of every 3 E90's you would have a case.

Welease

Whippet is correct..

Assuming you bought from a dealer, then your contract is with the dealer. You cannot claim from BMW, as you have no contract with them.

If the part had a serious design flaw, then it would be expected to fail on a considerable number of cars.. can you prove this is so? If not, then it's likely a part failure on your car, and unfortunately that happens especially given your car is over 4 years old.

You could spend a lot of time and money proving that the part failed within a "reasonable timeframe" which is all the law specifies it needs to last, but is it worth it?

On the other hand, the dealer may decide it's not worth the hassle to fight the claim, and just decide to fix it for free..

Either way, it will only cost €15 to check.. (but you do need to claim from the dealer not BWM).

maidhc

Welease wrote: »

Whippet is correct..

Assuming you bought from a dealer, then your contract is with the dealer. You cannot claim from BMW, as you have no contract with them.

No, you will be pleading negligence in this case, i.e. the design was not proper. You don't have a case against the dealer, except in contract and under consumer law.

Welease wrote: »

If the part had a serious design flaw, then it would be expected to fail on a considerable number of cars.. can you prove this is so? If not, then it's likely a part failure on your car, and unfortunately that happens especially given your car is over 4 years old.

Agreed, some pattern would be helpful.

Welease wrote: »

You could spend a lot of time and money proving that the part failed within a "reasonable timeframe" which is all the law specifies it needs to last, but is it worth it?

On the other hand, the dealer may decide it's not worth the hassle to fight the claim, and just decide to fix it for free..

Either way, it will only cost €15 to check.. (but you do need to claim from the dealer not BWM).

Again, incorrect, you should claim from both to be safe. Without the report of a motor assessor (€400ish) this claim is also probably doomed to failure.

Vego

yeah something similar happened with the puntos ...a design fault that fiat garages knew about but yet I still had to pay for a skimmed gasket

Welease

maidhc wrote: »

No, you will be pleading negligence in this case, i.e. the design was not proper. You don't have a case against the dealer, except in contract and under consumer law.

But isn't the SCC for consumer law only (with recent additions for some b2b claims)? Claims of neglegence not processed under consumer law would need to go elsewhere (as is my understanding)

maidhc wrote: »

Again, incorrect, you should claim from both to be safe. Without the report of a motor assessor (€400ish) this claim is also probably doomed to failure.

I agree it's probably doomed (even with an assessors report), but again I'm not sure (but open to correction ) that the SC would process a claim that is not dealing with consumer law direct to the dealer.


Hmm.. I stand corrected.. I did some checking and it seems some folks have won claims from HP for design faults.. So it is possible (thanks Maidhc).. Obviously the flaw still needs to be proven in this case, but my point about the Consumer law element was incorrect.. Apologies.

maidhc

Welease wrote: »

Hmm.. I stand corrected.. I did some checking and it seems some folks have won claims from HP for design faults.. So it is possible (thanks Maidhc).. Obviously the flaw still needs to be proven in this case, but my point about the Consumer law element was incorrect.. Apologies.

Its my day job! :rolleyes:

Compton

Its out of warranty. Hence, no warranty.

I really dont understand people that don't understand this, nothing lasts forever.

Daveq

I doubt you'll get anywhere.

Their design allowed for drainage however it obviously became blocked. Should it be able to handle more dirt before blocking? Possibly, but they covered themselves with an instruction for you or the owner - use an approved garage where they will know what to do.

For example, If you had a timing belt which snapped at 70k would you bring them to court because it broke due to their design?
Maybe, if they told you it was guaranteed for life, but if they instructed it to be done at 60k and you didn't get it done, or bring it to a garage then its on you.

I don't own a BMW nor an I mechanic but I alternate servicing my car myself and using a local main dealer and another mechanic who I know, knows my manufacturer inside out. its worth it, every 2nd or 3rd service, they might catch something I miss.

maidhc

shblob wrote: »

Its out of warranty. Hence, no warranty.

I really dont understand people that don't understand this, nothing lasts forever.

Not really the point, no one is dicussing any warranty!