Status of cycle lane

BrianD

Quick question - what is the status of a cycle lane with a broken line that is signed with the blue cycle lane sign (but has no times). This sign seems to be randomly erected on the route.

The cycle lane is "contained: within a bus lane that is operational 7-10am and 4-7pm Mon-Fri and is also marked as a clearway for the hours operation as a bus lane.. This cycle lane also has pay and display parking bays where's marked with a broken line. Parking has to be paid for 1000-1600 mon fri.

My question is the status of the parking bays 1900 to 0700 weekdays and all day weekends.

Buffman

A broken line means it's a non-mandatory cycle track, basically a waste of paint and signs.

BrianD

Does that mean you can park in it in the bays outside of the pay and display hours. The section of street is signed as a bus lane (with times). The section after the next junction has a blue cycle lane sign (but still has a broken line and parking bays). The blue cycle lane seems to suggest that you can't park for more than 30 min even if the line is broken.

Cookie_Monster

monument is the one to answer this but sounds to me like another useless lane, what's the point of a cycle lane you can park in?

My question is the status of the parking bays 1900 to 0700 weekdays and all day weekends.

Sounds like they are fully usable for free to me...

BrianD

I have to assist a neighbour with a clamping appeal. Looking at the rules it seems that a broken line means that you can enter a cycle lane temporarily or stop in it (max 30min). It doesn't seem to allow parking in it. Of course the fact that there are pay and display parking bays in the lane kind of negates this.

monument

Can you post photos of the signs and markings please. Or tell us exactly what street it is on so it can be found on Google Street view, if it's the same as the signs and markings are now.

A cycle lane without a time plate is a 24hour cycle lane.

By the sounds of it, the parking bays should also have time plates: What do these say?

These could be enough confusion here for it to be a reasonable mistake.

Buffman

BrianD wrote: »

Of course the fact that there are pay and display parking bays in the lane kind of negates this.

That would be my take on it. The two are incompatible. If you're not allowed to park there outside of the pay and display hours, the sign should also have a clearway/no parking sign for the non-pay and display hours. Your neighbor will probably end up going to the Independent appeals officer.

BrianD

monument wrote: »

Can you post photos of the signs and markings please. Or tell us exactly what street it is on so it can be found on Google Street view, if it's the same as the signs and markings are now.

A cycle lane without a time plate is a 24hour cycle lane.

By the sounds of it, the parking bays should also have time plates: What do these say?

These could be enough confusion here for it to be a reasonable mistake.

The parking bays have pay and display time plates 10am-4pm Mon-Fri and it's a clearway 7-10am and 4-7pm Mon-Fri.

The location is here. Think he was in the bay to the right of the bus shelter.

Note that there is a Blue sign indicating a cycle track further down the road but none covering that stretch of the street.

the clampers have enforced at the weekends but only ever clamped cars in the bus stop.

edanto

And in this case, when was the car clamped?

monument

I'm presuming the signs are now the same as they are in Google Street View and you're talking about parking between the bus stop and the lane way (the wall mounted sign says it is Mountpleasant Terrance)...

It would seem that the cycle lane sign only applies to the stretch between it and the start of the bus lane. It's unreasonable to think that the cycle track sign applies to the marked parking area as the sign is so far back up the road and past a junction, so it seems it does not apply to the parking bays.

When a local authority wants to mark a cycle lane within a bus lane that operates at more hours than the bus lanes it seems that they must also use the cycle lane signs under the bus lane sign (as here as done by DLR Co Co on the Rock Road). The cycle lane would be 24 hours without its own time plate or, if not 24 hours, the hours should be noted on its own time plate.

The other issue is the parking signs. The rules of the road state that: "These signs and their information plates show that you can park only during certain periods (sign 1) or outside certain periods (sign 2)." And it shows these signs:



But the parking sign on the road only shows the pay and display and permit parking sign:



Usually in Dublin this type of pay and display and permit parking sign only shows the times when you need to pay and display, outside of these hours you generally can park without paying. For example on my street (and many central residential streets like it) the pay and display and permit parking shows these signs with the times 7am-pm Monday to Saturday, and it would be silly to think you can't park these after 7am or on Sundays without another sign saying so.

Even if the cycle track sign up the road did apply to the parking bays (and I don't think it does!) then there would be a conflict between the cycle track sign with no time plate (which is 24 hour) and the timed parking bays.

He seems to have a good reason to appeal if he was parked outside the hours of the bus lane and the clearway. However, it's a different story if he was parked within the bus stop marking, partly on the kerb or footpath, out of the marked parking or too close to the junction with the lane way.

Too many compromises between parking and bus lanes, the different types of cycle lanes, normal traffic lanes which are sometimes parking, different parking zones, and paid and unpaid parking makes parking all too often in many places too confusing. About as confusion as that last sentence read quickly. It's very confusion if you're not used to parking in an area -- hard enough for residents and very unhelpful for visitors.

Also, worth noting: After the lane way and before the traffic calming, there's a conflict between the non-time plated 24 hour cycle lane and the timed parking. Both should be time plated or one should be removed.

PS: I need to start charging for parking fine appeals.

Buffman

The signs allow for pay and display and permit parking. Permit parking allows residents to park there, so are they supposed to move their cars at night and weekends?

I think DCC got a bit too excited with the white paint here, a bus lane, cycle lane, and parking bays all in the one lane! And you can't actually fit into the parking bay? (Judging by the Black Toyota Hilux to the left of the bus stop)

Good luck with the appeal and let us know how it goes.

BrianD

Buffman wrote: »

The signs allow for pay and display and permit parking. Permit parking allows residents to park there, so are they supposed to move their cars at night and weekends?

I think DCC got a bit too excited with the white paint here, a bus lane, cycle lane, and parking bays all in the one lane! And you can't actually fit into the parking bay? (Judging by the Black Toyota Hilux to the left of the bus stop)

Good luck with the appeal and let us know how it goes.

I'm not bad at the old appeals. Been clamped 3 times, got my money back twice including one occasion where the clampers had to return and remove the clamp on my car and another without a payment being made. Never got around to appealing the first clamp.

BrianD

Well as expected DSPS rejected my neighbours appeal after consulting with the "parking controllers notes" (I'd say these make interesting reading).

The grounds for rejection were:

Selective quoting of the relevant act:
"Article 14 (6) (a) of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) regulations 1997 states that a mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along a across a cycle track.

I must advise that a time plate may be provided in connection with a cycle track. Where no time plate is provided the default position is for 24 hour operation."

In Ranelagh Road the cycle track is in operation 24 hours a day.

Odd that given that it's a 24 hours a day that there's parking bays in it.

They've clearly decided to ignore that the fact that as pointed out to them there is actually no signage in the first plate on the part of the road in question so the presence of a time plate is irrelevant.

Anyway, on we go to the next stage.

Question - if the line is there without the mandatory signage can anything about the operation of what may look like a cycle track.

edanto

Would there be any success in making the case that that painted parking bays confuse things? Is it in the rules of the road that a cycle lane trumps a parking bay?

If it is ambiguous in the rules, might be helpful to the appeal.

BrianD

Well the good news is that my neighbour advises me that the appeal was successful and he obtained a refund. Still a lot of time my time wasted due to bad signage and enforcement.