Limerick Student Protest

Agent_99

Just a heads up for anyone in or around town on Wednesday.
This + rain could cause havoc.

xsiborg

shouldn't ye be IN college? and not skiving off to march down the street? seriously, what do people hope to achieve with these nonsense marches and protests!

zuroph

They're hoping to achieve no increase to fees as promised by labour before the election? Its all there in the poster.

1huge1

I wont be making any friends by saying this as a student, but I think fee's should be reintroduced, on a loan base system, the current system leaves the 3rd level sector heavily underfunded and the current system is highly abused.

By introducing a loan base system that should be repaid once the student has graduated and has started earning would be a good solution to the current funding problem, while it would not help the budget deficit in the short run it is a solution that should at the very least be considered.

I guess it goes to show that I study economics...

Kess73

While I do think there should be some form of fee, I am all for the student's right to protest as well.

But would it not make more sense (and look more impressive) if all the colleges around Ireland, that have students who wish to protest of course, organised one massive protest outside the Dail in Dublin?

It would get far greater coverage in the national media and be a much greater show of intent than a number of much smaller protests in the various cities.


Are UL part of the protest? I only see three college names on the poster and UL is not one of them.

1huge1

Actually there has been one outside the Dail and Leinster house just last week and it did get a lot of media coverage, must of slipped by you but students from colleges all over Ireland attended. 3rd year in a row I believe.

xsiborg

zuroph wrote: »

They're hoping to achieve no increase to fees as promised by labour before the election? Its all there in the poster.

that was the first problem right there Z- election. promises.

no but seriously, when you organised the zombie festival, it was for a great cause, and it took MONTHS of planning, to bring a fun, lively event to limerick city that everyone young, old, anyone, could get involved in, and it was clear who the captive audience were and what your aims were and that they were achieved.

this "protest march", just seems like something that was hastily thrown together, it's target audience in dail eireann wont give a fiddlers, and it'll have just been a waste of time for the students as they'll have missed out on classes and so forth, and for what? to block up o' connell street in the middle of the day for a couple of hours?

as a former student of Carlow RTC, DIT Kevin St., and UL, i have plenty of experience of college and university life and the pressures many students are under, both financially AND academically. i appreciated the opportunity to attend further education simply because i paid my own way through college in a wide variety of part time and full time jobs.

i for one am in favour of college fees being reintroduced or subsequent ones being increased, because it'll weed out the students who actually WANT to be there, to further their education, from the ones that see it as one four year long excuse to party! ie- the ones who have to pay for their education, will want to make sure they're not squandering their money that they worked hard to earn.

i dont buy the argument that the reintroduction, or subsequent increase in current fees will be a deterrent to those tho are actually willing to put in the WORK required not just to attend higher level, but to actually excel and make the most of the opportunity while they're there. higher level education (especially the high standards in this country!), IS a privilege, and should NOT be a right afforded to every tom, dick, and harry.

it is a privilege that should be earned, and then those who are determined enough to make it into higher education, this determination and motivation to be better and to DO better for themselves, will stand to them in life, long after they have graduated.




tl;dr: not ANOTHER bloody excuse protest march!

zuroph

yeah, huge protest in dublin last week.

Agent_99

Kess73 wrote: »

While I do think there should be some form of fee, I am all for the student's right to protest as well.

But would it not make more sense (and look more impressive) if all the colleges around Ireland, that have students who wish to protest of course, organised one massive protest outside the Dail in Dublin?

It would get far greater coverage in the national media and be a much greater show of intent than a number of much smaller protests in the various cities.


Are UL part of the protest? I only see three college names on the poster and UL is not one of them.

ULSU - University of Limerick Student Union, it's their poster.

This protest is to highlight Fee increases and cuts to the student maintenance grant, I personally have been cut 60% in funding which was a complete lie by the FG/Lab and they will do it again. I budgeted to return to college on the old level so it has caused hardship not only for me but lots of students are struggling to live and will drop out of college on to the Dole which will cost the government more money over time.
As for student loans the Government have said they will not support a student loan scheme back to a two tier society"the have and have nots"
"CAN'T PAY, WON'T PAY" !!!

touts

Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.

The Snipe

Just on the discussion of the fee's; IMHO I think that there should be no fee's for now, and when the economy actually decides to pick up and people have money, THEN Fees should be introduced, otherwise you are just deepening a debt that people can't afford.

touts

XiledSniper wrote: »

Just on the discussion of the fee's; IMHO I think that there should be no fee's for now, and when the economy actually decides to pick up and people have money, THEN Fees should be introduced, otherwise you are just deepening a debt that people can't afford.

Actually I think if you are talking about economic benefit then the nature of the course should also be taken into account. If a student does a course that is economically beneficial (e.g. Science, Engineering etc) then there is a strong argument that the fees should be waived perhaps provided the student commits to working in Ireland for a period of time after graduation. However if a student wants to do an Arts degree specialising on the impact of post modern feminist art in Uzbekistan popular literature then they can **** off and pay for that themselves. We'll be paying for them to sit on the dole long enough after they graduate.

xsiborg

touts wrote: »

Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.

at least in fairness to the OP they gave us the heads up! :rolleyes:

and not wishing to further aggravate what is no doubt a frustrating situation for the OP, certainly not wishing to flame the thread, but:

Agent_99 wrote: »

This protest is to highlight Fee increases and cuts to the student maintenance grant, I personally have been cut 60% in funding which was a complete lie by the FG/Lab and they will do it again.!!!

this is what politicians do, they make promises they know they wont keep, so they can be elected, people are worse to believe them, they never learned from previous lessons!

Agent_99 wrote: »

I budgeted to return to college on the old level so it has caused hardship not only for me but lots of students are struggling to live

it's not just students, everyone has had to adjust their budgets, especially in the current economic climate, i have had to pay more taxes than i have in previous years, which i didnt expect, but now in january i shall have to adjust my budget again accordingly. i just don't know yet how the government is going to penalise self employed people.

Agent_99 wrote: »

and will drop out of college on to the Dole which will cost the government more money over time.

first of all, dropping out of college and going on the dole? and that's the first option that comes to mind? seriously? cant get paid to go to college, so i'll get paid to sit on my bum instead! the only one this will affect in the long run is the students who choose to go down this route themselves, which i suspect are in a minority, most will try to get a second or in some cases if they're determined enough- a third, source of income.

Agent_99 wrote: »

back to a two tier society"the have and have nots"

the haves because they worked for it, and the have nots because they chose to sit on their bums and resigned themselves to not wanting to better themselves.

you wont cost the government more money over time, it's not the government who will have to dig into their own pockets to support you, instead the government will just increase taxes or introduce new taxes, dipping into the pockets of the people that voted them in on the premise that they would introduce "no new taxes" (classic george bush quote!).

Agent_99 wrote: »

"CAN'T PAY, WON'T PAY" !!!

cant pay, dont want to pay.

that is completely up to the individual, as i mentioned before, there are the minority that will adopt that mentality, but then there are those that like i said, will be determined enough to be passionate about doing better for themselves and will find ways and means to further their education, not letting something like a financial hurdle be the first thing that stops them.

Icky Thump

i cant believe the reception that you people are giving this topic

what a joke


farmers get upset about something they protest. joe public sits back and the general thought is "they have every right"

public servants have their pensions cut(they pay for their pensions now) and they protest. joe public thinks "they have every right"

students are told they have to fork out in some cases 4k a year(currently by the way) and are told the grants will be cut(the only source of income) and the student want to protest. joe public thinks "lazy drunken students"


seriously you people should maybe go back finish school and start actually thinking for yourselves for once instead of believing everything you read.

a couple of educational points for you.
- not all college studens have time to have the "college lifesyle" you describe
- not all college student are wasters who care about getting drunk and their next roide
- not all college sudents have time to work through college
- not all students have mammy and daddy to pay they way
- not all students can sell the car to fund college


thinking the above says more about you than the students and trust me there are so many angry things that i would like to say to a couple of you that i will not degrade myself by doing so but seriously grow up.


i am a architecture student. my fees are almost 4 grand a year in a 5 year course. then because im not living at home i have to pay 2800 a year on accomadation. 1k a year on transport 3k a year on food and about 2k a year on bills. then because of my course i have about 800 a year on suplies and about 200 a year on books. i need a laptop and a camera which costs another 800(for low budget)

that means for the duraton of my course i must pay €10,600 a year or €53k for the whole course.

because of my course im not able to work during college. in first year alone i was in colleg at 9 and until 9 most nights if not later when it was coming up to deadlines. now in second year im spending even longer in college. not because i choose to(im not exactly the head to books student) but if i dont spend the time in college(up to 60 hours a week by the way) then ill fail. during the summers i try to get work but the fact is i need to do internships to get experience and make connecions.

so for those not keeping up. i have a bill of €53k and no way to pay it as id have no grant and cant work.

the fact is this is your actual typical student. not the drunken mess you may think.


being in college is like on the job training for most. if you where on the job training you woudnt expect to have to pay for it.

get your facts straight and grow up. support instead of actually being the problem

Icky Thump

xsiborg wrote: »

this "protest march", just seems like something that was hastily thrown together, it's target audience in dail eireann wont give a fiddlers, and it'll have just been a waste of time for the students as they'll have missed out on classes and so forth, and for what? to block up o' connell street in the middle of the day for a couple of hours?

as a former student of Carlow RTC, DIT Kevin St., and UL, i have plenty of experience of college and university life and the pressures many students are under, both financially AND academically. i appreciated the opportunity to attend further education simply because i paid my own way through college in a wide variety of part time and full time jobs.

i for one am in favour of college fees being reintroduced or subsequent ones being increased, because it'll weed out the students who actually WANT to be there, to further their education, from the ones that see it as one four year long excuse to party! ie- the ones who have to pay for their education, will want to make sure they're not squandering their money that they worked hard to earn.

i dont buy the argument that the reintroduction, or subsequent increase in current fees will be a deterrent to those tho are actually willing to put in the WORK required not just to attend higher level, but to actually excel and make the most of the opportunity while they're there. higher level education (especially the high standards in this country!), IS a privilege, and should NOT be a right afforded to every tom, dick, and harry.

it is a privilege that should be earned, and then those who are determined enough to make it into higher education, this determination and motivation to be better and to DO better for themselves, will stand to them in life, long after they have graduated.


tl;dr: not ANOTHER bloody excuse protest march!

of course your in favour of bringing in fees. as youve stated youve been to your fair share of colleges. your the type of student that you seem to be disliking so much.

why should it be a privilage?? if i was startin in mcdonalds tommorrow would i have to pay for my training??

not all of us can just struggle through the financial hardship

sometimes when a person says "i cant afford it" they actually mean "im f##king broke and im about to starve because i do not have 1 euro for bread or a tin of beans"

thereis no exadgeration here. ive seen first hand students tat go some weeks not knowing wher they are going to get money for food from.

touts wrote: »

Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.

this is pathetic. as ive stated not all students have this mindset.

yes there are the yound 18/19 year olds that can go a bit wild now that they arent living at home any more and dont seem to feel they have any shakles but we are not all like that.

im a student who when i can afford to likes to go for a few pints with my mates. i dont like student nights personally or studentsfor that mater but thats another issue:)

student work hard. alot might spend 17-25 hours a week in actual class. then another 10-15 hours a week doing college work. they are doing the same 40 hour a week you are. except they are not getting paid and they are alot more stressed. so if they wanna blow off steam every so ofetn fine let them. i have no problem with them out as long as they behave. but as i said not all students can go out.

from my experience first hand most of the pople who complain about drunken student ar usually the ones hammered on a friday saturday night inside smyths or nancys

off the high horses mates

touts

Icky Thump wrote: »

farmers get upset about something they protest. joe public sits back and the general thought is "they have every right"

public servants have their pensions cut(they pay for their pensions now) and they protest. joe public thinks "they have every right"

No I don't. I think they are wrong also. It's just here we are talking about students. Go visit the Irish Economy section of boards.

Icky Thump wrote: »

seriously you people should maybe go back finish school and start actually thinking for yourselves for once instead of believing everything you read.

I have a Bachelors degree in Engineering (pre-free fees) and a Masters in Science (part time so no grant/free fees). All paid for by myself and it didn't ruin my life having to do so. It just limited my ability to socialise.

Icky Thump wrote: »

a couple of educational points for you.
- not all college studens have time to have the "college lifesyle" you describe
- not all college student are wasters who care about getting drunk and their next roide
- not all college sudents have time to work through college
- not all students have mammy and daddy to pay they way
- not all students can sell the car to fund college

You say not all. I say sure "not all" but many if not most can. The handful of exceptions should not drive the expensive rule for all.

Icky Thump wrote: »

i am a architecture student. my fees are almost 4 grand a year in a 5 year course. then because im not living at home i have to pay 2800 a year on accomadation. 1k a year on transport 3k a year on food and about 2k a year on bills. then because of my course i have about 800 a year on suplies and about 200 a year on books. i need a laptop and a camera which costs another 800(for low budget)

Did you even look at the news before you decided to do a course with no jobs. There have been no jobs in architecture for the past 5 years or more. Why on earth do you think the taxpayer has a duty to pay for you to scribble a few lines on a piece of paper?

Icky Thump wrote: »

that means for the duraton of my course i must pay €10,600 a year or €53k for the whole course.

No it means you will be paying €4000 a year or €20,000 over the 5 years of the course. All of the other bits and pieces you added into the bill are lifestyle related and you'll be paying that (and possibly far more) if you left college. Life in school may have been free because Mammy and Daddy were picking up the tab but as an adult life outside college is not free.

Icky Thump wrote: »

because of my course im not able to work during college. in first year alone i was in colleg at 9 and until 9 most nights if not later when it was coming up to deadlines. now in second year im spending even longer in college. not because i choose to(im not exactly the head to books student) but if i dont spend the time in college(up to 60 hours a week by the way) then ill fail. during the summers i try to get work but the fact is i need to do internships to get experience and make connecions.

so for those not keeping up. i have a bill of €53k and no way to pay it as id have no grant and cant work.

So I suggest you do a course that has employment prospects during and more importantly after college. Seriously though if you are doing 12 hours a day just to keep up in first year you really need to ask yourself if you are cut out for this career. First year is only the introduction. It will be 10 times harder by the end. Perhaps there are other things you would enjoy, which you would find easier and which would be more beneficial to the economy than putting another Architect on the dole...

Icky Thump wrote: »

being in college is like on the job training for most. if you where on the job training you woudnt expect to have to pay for it.

No it's not. In my experience college is nothing like on the job training. College gives you the theory. Real jobs give you the experience you need to know how to apply that theory. I have yet to hire a graduate who was job ready straight out of the box.

Icky Thump wrote: »

get your facts straight and grow up. support instead of actually being the problem

I'm sorry but it is you who need to grow up and face reality. We can't afford to send everyone to college to do courses that will not prepare them for a job. We are not the problem. We are the people paying for the problem.

Icky Thump

XiledSniper wrote: »

Just on the discussion of the fee's; IMHO I think that there should be no fee's for now, and when the economy actually decides to pick up and people have money, THEN Fees should be introduced, otherwise you are just deepening a debt that people can't afford.

there should never be fees!!!

i keep saying it but il say it again.

if i stat a job tommorrow in lets say Dell. they have to train me. not even Dell are going to charge m for my training.

college is training for your future career.

sure some people take the piss and study things that they dont really car aboutan basically plan on never using but its their right if it somthing that can be used.

its costing me 53k to get through college. that is alot of money to just magically find.

but when im qualified as an architect (hopefully) i will be generating alot of income that will be used as tax. i will also buy my house car and most likely setle down and start a family. the amount of money that i will end up ploughing into the country from this outcome im sure you can imagine its a great deal with the costs of startig up a family(wedding, kids, schools etc)

second outcome is i manage to get a job somewhere and end up making my 30k a year(good job) or end up making bad choices and not finding proper work and ending up on the dole.

surely me going through college would be the better outcome??

as i said it costs me 53k for college. if i have no fees then it costs me 33k. thats still alot of money but at least it helps a little???

say no to fees. while aome students CAN afford it. there are most who CAN NOT

1huge1 wrote: »

I wont be making any friends by saying this as a student, but I think fee's should be reintroduced, on a loan base system, the current system leaves the 3rd level sector heavily underfunded and the current system is highly abused.

By introducing a loan base system that should be repaid once the student has graduated and has started earning would be a good solution to the current funding problem, while it would not help the budget deficit in the short run it is a solution that should at the very least be considered.

I guess it goes to show that I study economics...

a loan system is a really bad idea. we should get students to college and then when they are finished we will hand them a bill and tell them that if they dont hurry then the intrest will rise......................... didnt bono and bob have some sort of night out about something like this???


i do however think that every student sould sign a contract going into college. if a student does not finish a year(sit the exams and have a significant attendance record) then they should pay for that year. if they drop out by novemberfair enough kids choose the wrong course and thats a mistake. if this happens there are the right ways of dropping out. but if someone is taking the piss and doesnt show up to college gets drunk all the time and doesnt even try to get into second year then yes they should have to pay for that year.

contracts would make it alot stricter and would give an employment feeling rather than the party personna joe public seems to have

touts

Icky Thump wrote: »

of course your in favour of bringing in fees. as youve stated youve been to your fair share of colleges. your the type of student that you seem to be disliking so much.

why should it be a privilage?? if i was startin in mcdonalds tommorrow would i have to pay for my training??

not all of us can just struggle through the financial hardship

sometimes when a person says "i cant afford it" they actually mean "im f##king broke and im about to starve because i do not have 1 euro for bread or a tin of beans"

thereis no exadgeration here. ive seen first hand students tat go some weeks not knowing wher they are going to get money for food from.



this is pathetic. as ive stated not all students have this mindset.

yes there are the yound 18/19 year olds that can go a bit wild now that they arent living at home any more and dont seem to feel they have any shakles but we are not all like that.

im a student who when i can afford to likes to go for a few pints with my mates. i dont like student nights personally or studentsfor that mater but thats another issue:)

student work hard. alot might spend 17-25 hours a week in actual class. then another 10-15 hours a week doing college work. they are doing the same 40 hour a week you are. except they are not getting paid and they are alot more stressed. so if they wanna blow off steam every so ofetn fine let them. i have no problem with them out as long as they behave. but as i said not all students can go out.

from my experience first hand most of the pople who complain about drunken student ar usually the ones hammered on a friday saturday night inside smyths or nancys

off the high horses mates

At the lower end of your range 17+10 is 27. The upper extreme of your example is 25+15 = 40 so I assume if we apply a distribution to your figures most students are doing less than 40 hours.

Students are getting paid. They are getting fees, grants and what not to fund their lifestyle. Just because we don't give them a pay slip and they dont' pay tax on it does not mean they are not getting paid. Where do you think the money for them to "blow off a little steam".

Icky Thump

touts wrote: »

I have a Bachelors degree in Engineering (pre-free fees) and a Masters in Science (part time so no grant/free fees). All paid for by myself and it didn't ruin my life having to do so. It just limited my ability to socialise.

im not talking about the ability to socialise and from the sounds of it you where not the type of struggliong student i have been talking about.

touts wrote: »

You say not all. I say sure "not all" but many if not most can. The handful of exceptions should not drive the expensive rule for all.

wow "many if most can"??? what did you pluck that theory from your head yea?? without getting angry:) im going to just sa that the public perception gives student a bad name. as i said its "not all" because im not going to make false claims and give a made up percentage.

i cant evaluate every student and let you know if its most or none that can afford these fees. all im saying is everyone has a right to free education.

touts wrote: »

Did you even look at the news before you decided to do a course with no jobs. There have been no jobs in architecture for the past 5 years or more. Why on earth do you think the taxpayer has a duty to pay for you to scribble a few lines on a piece of paper?

who gives you the right to question my career choice??

not that its any of your business but i am a 26 year old student who has been out of school for some time now and while im doing a course that i love and feel i want to be a success in i also know that that where the jobs will be in 7-10 years time(when my course is finished and become fully qualifies)

i have thought it through and i have faith that in 5 years the economy will either be recovering in such it means work will start picking up(if not ireland then somehwere in the world) and if the economy isnt picking up in 5 years then the choice of career will hardly matter because we will all be in trouble.


let me ask you one question.

what would you advise people to do in college??? computers..............????

touts wrote: »

No it means you will be paying €4000 a year or €20,000 over the 5 years of the course. All of the other bits and pieces you added into the bill are lifestyle related and you'll be paying that (and possibly far more) if you left college. Life in school may have been free because Mammy and Daddy were picking up the tab but as an adult life outside college is not free.

yes thats 20k over 5 years on top of living expenses. living expenses are 33k over 5 years on a budget. as ive stated im 26 ive been out paying ren and bills im not under the impression that everything in life is free.

tell me how a student can afford 10k a year(fees and living) by working aswell as being in college??

touts wrote: »

So I suggest you do a course that has employment prospects during and more importantly after college. Seriously though if you are doing 12 hours a day just to keep up in first year you really need to ask yourself if you are cut out for this career. First year is only the introduction. It will be 10 times harder by the end. Perhaps there are other things you would enjoy, which you would find easier and which would be more beneficial to the economy than putting another Architect on the dole...

well no offence intended but if i was doing engineering i wouldnt have to spend 12 hours a day in college.

there is the difference between continous assesmant and theory.

architecture is all hands on. projects all the time. each project can take a couple of weeks .

in any projectwe et our brief(what the client wants)
- we consider what is in the brief
- we come up with a concept and do some rough designs on what our concept is
- we do some designs based on our concept
- we do our concept models and experiment to see if the shape and the idea work and dont just look good
- we make our working drawings and plan our design
- we make our model which including the site would usually be A0 size(in paper terms)
- we do up our finished "art drawings" and setup our project layout to show the client(in this case the lecturer)
- we have a "crit" where we present our project to a group of people(usually the lecturers aswell as the class) and this is where everyone gets to question why you did what youve done and you must defend it

this is a project for an architect. its not theory and its not as simple as reading a book. it is time consuming and unless your not a successful engineer id hope you knew that already.

touts wrote: »

No it's not. In my experience college is nothing like on the job training. College gives you the theory. Real jobs give you the experience you need to know how to apply that theory. I have yet to hire a graduate who was job ready straight out of the box.

as i said what im doing for example is not theory

last year i lived with a graphics student who like me had the same on the job experience not theory.

this year i live with a law student who again like me has the same on the job experience not theory.

touts wrote: »

I'm sorry but it is you who need to grow up and face reality. We can't afford to send everyone to college to do courses that will not prepare them for a job. We are not the problem. We are the people paying for the problem.

as i said my carreer path is my choice. you may not have stuck with your(maybe you have and you just dont pay attention) but i have my plan of coming out the otherside of the reccesion with something worthwile as far as im concerned.

so again maybe you should grow up and have a think about your inaccurate claims before talking nonsense on a public forum

Insect Overlord

Icky Thump wrote: »

so again maybe you should grow up and have a think about your inaccurate claims before talking nonsense on a public forum

Mod note: Calm it down, buddy. Just because ye don't agree doesn't mean ye can describe each other's opinions as nonsense.

Kess73

Was reading last night that circa 80% of State money/tax payers money that goes into education in Ireland goes towards wages, with only the remaining 20% towards facilities/projects/equipment etc.

So thanks to the Unions and the Croke park agreement there is very little that can be done to cut costs from that 80%.

Maybe students should, as well as protesting against the goverment, have a long hard look at how much of an effect that protected 80% has on things, and at how big a part various unions etc are playing in the fee arguement.

Actually it is a great example of how bloated and poorly run the public service side of things get run in this country when circa 80% of total income on a national level is needed for wages alone. If a company did that in the private sector it would not last too long and be called financially irresponsible.

Icky Thump

touts wrote: »

At the lower end of your range 17+10 is 27. The upper extreme of your example is 25+15 = 40 so I assume if we apply a distribution to your figures most students are doing less than 40 hours.

Students are getting paid. They are getting fees, grants and what not to fund their lifestyle. Just because we don't give them a pay slip and they dont' pay tax on it does not mean they are not getting paid. Where do you think the money for them to "blow off a little steam".

yea id say alot of students are doing less than 40 hours

im not going to say "most" or "least" because i dont think its fair to guess

i and everyone in my course i can tell you is doing at least 60 hours a week.

students "some" get grants where their fees are paid. this is grand and this should happen. this just means they dont have to find 4k a year to pay the fees. thats not manoey in thier pocket thats money they didnt have to scrape together or put themselves in debt for in the first place.

students "some" ge the full grant which is worth about 5k a year. you tell me how anyone can live on 5k a year?? over 10 month(college year) thats 1k every two months or €500 a month. thats definitly achievable if you dont have rent, bills, food etc. alot of students who go out and party are student who are also working part time.

so on top of their 27-40 hours a week(not even going to mention students doing the 50-70 hours a week) they are al working part time.

so yes i do think blowing off a little steam is ok and these ar all future tax payers so saying that the tax payer is footing the bill is a government smear campaign used to help them justify the decisions.


te fat that the public have no support for the students is the exact reason why grants have been hit so hard. the reason that fees have risen so high.


the fact is that if you look at every section of society you will find over the last 10 years students have been hit more than anybody and joe public doesnt seem to give a s#it because it doesnt affect them

Iang87

its already been mentioned in the thread about farmers protesting if something happens and people saying they've every right. The difference is farmers dont go drinking 5 nights a week.I'm aware all students dont go drinking 5 nights a week but a lot do so until that is solved there not gonna get much sympathy from the ordinary joe.

If students want to make a point try growing up a little first, showing their responsible and falling around outside icon Sunday to thrusday isn't a way of showing it.

Basically rather than changing the governments mind about a potential policy try changing your own image then maybe you'll have more success. I'm out of college 2 years now and things have gotten worse if anything across the country however the one thing that hasn't changed is students who are always broke are always drunk.

Once again i'm fully aware not all students do this but a lot do

Icky Thump

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Mod note: Calm it down, buddy. Just because ye don't agree doesn't mean ye can describe each other's opinions as nonsense.

im sure he thinks im talking nonsense aswell:) but piont taken

Kess73 wrote: »

Was reading last night that circa 80% of State money/tax payers money that goes into education in Ireland goes towards wages, with only the remaining 20% towards facilities/projects/equipment etc.

So thanks to the Unions and the Croke park agreement there is very little that can be done to cut costs from that 80%.

Maybe students should, as well as protesting against the goverment, have a long hard look at how much of an effect that protected 80% has on things, and at how big a part various unions etc are playing in the fee arguement.

Actually it is a great example of how bloated and poorly run the public service side of things get run in this country when circa 80% of total income on a national level is needed for wages alone. If a company did that in the private sector it would not last too long and be called financially irresponsible.

i think that is ahuge issue aswell that doesnt seem to get any light. im in college in waterford and we had a few "incidents" with our college president

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0512/1224296753474.html

he spent 100k alone on taxis between wateford and dublin(so much for 10 euro trains)

Kess73

Icky Thump wrote: »

im sure he thinks im talking nonsense aswell:) but piont taken



i think that is ahuge issue aswell that doesnt seem to get any light. im in college in waterford and we had a few "incidents" with our college president

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0512/1224296753474.html

he spent 100k alone on taxis between wateford and dublin(so much for 10 euro trains)

It is an issue that seems to be ignored pretty much by student protests. The various unions must be delighted to see the students protesting against politicans imho as it takes the spotlight off other areas of spending that if they were managed in a prudent manner could possibly make the savings needed to avoid the need for fees or at the very least it could make a massive difference to the size of fee increase that got implemented.

Icky Thump

Iang87 wrote: »

its already been mentioned in the thread about farmers protesting if something happens and people saying they've every right. The difference is farmers dont go drinking 5 nights a week.I'm aware all students dont go drinking 5 nights a week but a lot do so until that is solved there not gonna get much sympathy from the ordinary joe.

If students want to make a point try growing up a little first, showing their responsible and falling around outside icon Sunday to thrusday isn't a way of showing it.

Basically rather than changing the governments mind about a potential policy try changing your own image then maybe you'll have more success. I'm out of college 2 years now and things have gotten worse if anything across the country however the one thing that hasn't changed is students who are always broke are always drunk.

Once again i'm fully aware not all students do this but a lot do

alot do your right

but have you ever walked past icon on a friday or saturday night??? just as bad as a student night. the only difference is there isnt as many people. the issue is that the student population is so big its more noticable and its easier to label them as students rather than club goers.

while i agree whole heartedly that something needs to be done to make students more responsible i also think that alot of the responsiblit should be put on bar and club owners.

have you seen the some of the students going into these places??? they can barely walk going in never mind coming out!!!! if clubs and bars are willing to let extremly drunk people in then the strees will be fiulled with drunken behaviour. if bars and clubs didnt leave them in then they wouldnt be in town and they would stop getting that drunk before going to town.

as i said its the same to a lesser extent on fridays and saturdays its just that there isnt as many people around.

sure everyone finds a way of getting drink. usually it a 4 euro bottle of wine in tesco or any cheap crap they can get. its not like students are spending 200 quid on drink. hell i dont think i know many students that spend that in a month on drink and still go out alot. many of my mates who do go out might spend 20 quid a week at the most on drink and that includes a couple of pints

source

Icky Thump wrote: »

yea id say alot of students are doing less than 40 hours

im not going to say "most" or "least" because i dont think its fair to guess

i and everyone in my course i can tell you is doing at least 60 hours a week.

students "some" get grants where their fees are paid. this is grand and this should happen. this just means they dont have to find 4k a year to pay the fees. thats not manoey in thier pocket thats money they didnt have to scrape together or put themselves in debt for in the first place.

students "some" ge the full grant which is worth about 5k a year. you tell me how anyone can live on 5k a year?? over 10 month(college year) thats 1k every two months or €500 a month. thats definitly achievable if you dont have rent, bills, food etc. alot of students who go out and party are student who are also working part time.

so on top of their 27-40 hours a week(not even going to mention students doing the 50-70 hours a week) they are al working part time.

so yes i do think blowing off a little steam is ok and these ar all future tax payers so saying that the tax payer is footing the bill is a government smear campaign used to help them justify the decisions.


te fat that the public have no support for the students is the exact reason why grants have been hit so hard. the reason that fees have risen so high.


the fact is that if you look at every section of society you will find over the last 10 years students have been hit more than anybody and joe public doesnt seem to give a s#it because it doesnt affect them

When I was in college, I didn't qualify for the grant. My parents were earning €10 over the monthly threshold. I went out and found a job working in a shop, and at one point when I wasn't getting enough hours in the job I had, I went and got a second job packing shelves at night time in a toy shop.

Lots of students don't get grants, and are fine. A friend of mine also a member on here, went back as a mature student having dropped out of college the first time around. He paid fees, and worked his ass off in jobs to get himself through college. It's not as impossible a task as you make out.

Kess73

source wrote: »

When I was in college, I didn't qualify for the grant. My parents were earning €10 over the monthly threshold. I went out and found a job working in a shop, and at one point when I wasn't getting enough hours in the job I had, I went and got a second job packing shelves at night time in a toy shop.

Lots of students don't get grants, and are fine. A friend of mine also a member on here, went back as a mature student having dropped out of college the first time around. He paid fees, and worked his ass off in jobs to get himself through college. It's not as impossible a task as you make out.

Good post, and one I reckon a lot of current and ex students can relate to.

Icky Thump

Kess73 wrote: »

It is an issue that seems to be ignored pretty much by student protests. The various unions must be delighted to see the students protesting against politicans imho as it takes the spotlight off other areas of spending that if they were managed in a prudent manner could possibly make the savings needed to avoid the need for fees or at the very least it could make a massive difference to the size of fee increase that got implemented.

well i know that the USI(union of students in Ireland) where very vocal about these things last year but the problem was that to get support from colleges and some polititions they couldnt highlight these as priority issues. they where relying on backing and couldnt exactly blame the same people that where supposedly behind them.

i think though its a common problem in this country. we never seem to blame the right people.

everyone looks out for themsleves. we have split into sections in our society. we have public servants, private sector workers, students, unemployed, elderly, children, men, women and just about every other demogarphic you can think of.

the problem is this is how governments get into power. they divide and conquer. if they keep most of the sections happy they get voted in.

te point is we are all people all being affected the exact same. every family in this country fits at least 3 demogarphics. so insead of blaming the other demographics we should be blaming mnagement for runningthe company by treating its employees with different levels of respect. in this case the management is the government

Iang87

Icky Thump wrote: »

alot do your right

but have you ever walked past icon on a friday or saturday night??? just as bad as a student night. the only difference is there isnt as many people. the issue is that the student population is so big its more noticable and its easier to label them as students rather than club goers.

while i agree whole heartedly that something needs to be done to make students more responsible i also think that alot of the responsiblit should be put on bar and club owners.

have you seen the some of the students going into these places??? they can barely walk going in never mind coming out!!!! if clubs and bars are willing to let extremly drunk people in then the strees will be fiulled with drunken behaviour. if bars and clubs didnt leave them in then they wouldnt be in town and they would stop getting that drunk before going to town.

as i said its the same to a lesser extent on fridays and saturdays its just that there isnt as many people around.

sure everyone finds a way of getting drink. usually it a 4 euro bottle of wine in tesco or any cheap crap they can get. its not like students are spending 200 quid on drink. hell i dont think i know many students that spend that in a month on drink and still go out alot. many of my mates who do go out might spend 20 quid a week at the most on drink and that includes a couple of pints

The reason you dont see the same on a friday or saturday is that people cant afford it the way they used to so they made a decision to cut back on going out where this doesn't seem to be the case with students.

You're right saying that they drink before they go and do it cheaply but thats not what the rest of the country will see. Regardless how much they spend on drink per night or month as long as they're complaining about fees people will throw it in their faces

Icky Thump

source wrote: »

When I was in college, I didn't qualify for the grant. My parents were earning €10 over the monthly threshold. I went out and found a job working in a shop, and at one point when I wasn't getting enough hours in the job I had, I went and got a second job packing shelves at night time in a toy shop.

Lots of students don't get grants, and are fine. A friend of mine also a member on here, went back as a mature student having dropped out of college the first time around. He paid fees, and worked his ass off in jobs to get himself through college. It's not as impossible a task as you make out.

yea of course it can be done. but my point is that not every course allows students time to work. im back as a mature student myself and paying fees aswell. im not getting help but ill cope some how. im just saying that its stressful its hard and its should not be the norm. it shpouldnt be normal to live on a couple of hours sleep because your working so much on top of college

source

Icky Thump wrote: »

yea of course it can be done. but my point is that not every course allows students time to work. im back as a mature student myself and paying fees aswell. im not getting help but ill cope some how. im just saying that its stressful its hard and its should not be the norm. it shpouldnt be normal to live on a couple of hours sleep because your working so much on top of college

You do what you have to in order to live better in the future, I'll take a little saying from the military: Train hard, fight easy....train easy, fight hard.

As for it being stressful, Life is stressful, and life is not easy. As another poster has just stated. If students didn't give off the view that they're breezing through life, and that life for them is one big party, then maybe people will be more sympathetic.

DeWinterZero

Seems some people are forgetting its not the time of the Celtic Tiger any more and seem to think that jobs still grow on trees. Those part time jobs that students took to get through college 5-10 years ago are now being sought by 1000's of other people. The cost of going to college hasn't gone down but the money to pay it has.

Just because the people who are going to fail college are having fun, doesn't mean that those studying hard should be penalised also.

source

DeWinterZero wrote: »

Just because the people who are going to fail college are having fun, doesn't mean that those studying hard should be penalised also.

No, but those "having fun" as you put it, shouldn't be financed by the state to waste time and "have fun".

Icky Thump

sorry kids had to have some lunch:)

@ DeWinterZero
yes thats a good point. ive stated that im in college in waterford. ive applied for countless jobs. for example i appled for a job in a cafe part time and if you knew my background youd know that in normal circumstances id be the ideal candidate. but because i was in college and my part time hours wherent as flexible the job was given to someone else who i know isnt a student. thats not there fault dont get me wrong. buit i know i have more experience and im better qualified than they are but its an employers market and students arent exactly the front of the line for jobs considering that they are in college from 9-5 mon-fri (not exact hours but between those hours) so employers would rather someone with more flexible time.

im finding it difficult to work as are many


@ source
your right that those just in college to have fun and most likely fail shouldnt be financed but you cant paint them all with the same brush.

thats why earlier i said that if a student doesnt keep attendance up and complete each year then they should be billed for their experience.

those who are serious and who keep attendance up, pass exams and finish college with a degree should not be billed as they are going to likely work in their choosed field and generate tax.





also it should be worth pointing out.
if a person chooses not to go to college. lets say they get a job in Dunnes and work away and have a happy life. thats fine. but if that same person went to college and got lets say a business degree and then opened their own shop they could employ maybe 5 people. so instead of that one lad working in dunnes he has now increased the workforce by the 5 people he might employ plus he leaves that dunnes job open for someone else.

the more serious poeple in college the better. the more people that have specialised study leaves the unskilled(no offence) jobs open for others.

this is why i dont think fees should be reintroduced

me in college is for the good of the country aswell as the good of me.

xsiborg

Icky Thump wrote: »

there should never be fees!!!

i keep saying it but il say it again.

i keep saying it but i'll say it again- the economy can no longer afford to sustain payments of fees.

Icky Thump wrote: »

if i stat a job tommorrow in lets say Dell. they have to train me. not even Dell are going to charge m for my training.

no, they wont charge you for your training, hell, they'll even pay for the cost of your training, provided it's beneficial to them in some way, it didnt come without terms and conditions either!

Icky Thump wrote: »

college is training for your future career.

sure some people take the piss and study things that they dont really car aboutan basically plan on never using but its their right if it somthing that can be used.

seriously? so i shoud contribute MY money, to fund somebody else, to do something they have a RIGHT to choose to make use of or not? i really dont think thats going to fly Icky. if im paying for something, guaranteed i'll want to see it being put to good use!

Icky Thump wrote: »

its costing me 53k to get through college. that is alot of money to just magically find.

you're right, it is a lot of money to magically find; finding €20k for your ACTUAL tuition fees, doesnt make it any less magical to find, especially when you expect other people to pay it for you. nobody lands my income in my lap either. i have to work for it, and work hard!

Icky Thump wrote: »

but when im qualified as an architect (hopefully) i will be generating alot of income that will be used as tax.

hopefully, being the operative word there. and your income wont be used as tax, tax is taken FROM your income (which wont leave you with a whole lot either... when you're done paying for other people's tuition fees!)

Icky Thump wrote: »

i will also buy my house car and most likely setle down and start a family. the amount of money that i will end up ploughing into the country from this outcome im sure you can imagine its a great deal with the costs of startig up a family(wedding, kids, schools etc)

i like an optimist too as much as the next guy, who am i to shatter your dreams.

Icky Thump wrote: »

second outcome is i manage to get a job somewhere and end up making my 30k a year(good job) or end up making bad choices and not finding proper work and ending up on the dole.

ok, there goes the optimism then, back to "only option? the dole!", why is that the first option that comes to mind?

Icky Thump wrote: »

surely me going through college would be the better outcome??

it would, if you werent such a pessimist with such a blinkered "two extremes of the scale" viewpoint. my brother qualified and worked for years as a chef, when that went slow, he decided to do an apprenticeship as a fitter with the ESB, when the ESB told him there were no jobs in the ESB when he qualified, he went on to study environmental energy in Athlone. now he's back to cheffing and driving from nenagh to adare to do a 12 hour shift fri, sat and sun, while his wife works mon-thurs so they can "swap shifts" bringing up their one year old.

point being, the key to it is being flexible, adaptable, willing to do whatever is necessary, and then go beyond that if you want to make a life for yourself rather than just píss and moan about "i cant have this, i cant do that", etc.

Icky Thump wrote: »

as i said it costs me 53k for college.

as another poster said- it costs you €20k in college, the rest is supplementary to your lifestyle choices.

Icky Thump wrote: »

if i have no fees then it costs me 33k. thats still alot of money but at least it helps a little???

get a job in tesco, every little helps.

Icky Thump wrote: »

contracts would make it alot stricter and would give an employment feeling

what age is the average higher ecucation student again? three? four?
i really have to question your ideas about what you think being employed means!

Icky Thump wrote: »

rather than the party personna joe public seems to have

i personally never thought for a second that college was all about partying, i know a minority who did though.

i also dont think the majority of students are party persona inclined, therefore to the majority that are determined to further themselves, the abolition of grants, will only be a stumbling block, and not the incredibly momentous hurdle, that a minority of students make it out to be.




i havent the energy nor the time right now to address the points you make in your post above, having been working all day, im glad of a few minutes to sit down and have a coffee before i tackle all the work here that was dropped in during the day while i was out.

xsiborg

aaaanyway, i think source has put it better and more succinctly than i could have put across my viewpoint. i hadnt meant for my initial post in this thread to turn into a "student bashing" fest or a "poor me" poverty píssing contest.

i meant i was merely tired of all these "protests" that achieve nothing only to suck the life out of the city, "occupy some street nobody gives a toss about" protest, "how dare you cut off our free money" protest, and in january after the budget, guaranteed the city will be blocked up again by some other numpty crowd protesting about budget cuts.

enough already with the protests, they achieve very little in the way of progress, if at all, and surely we all have better things to be doing, like just getting the hell on with our lives and managing as best we can in the currently volatile and turbulent economic climate.

highlydebased

touts wrote: »

Great start to the Christmas party season for the Pubs in Limerick city centre. There will be frantic stocking up today. 2:30 is a bloody early start though even for the hardest drinking students. It'll start to get messy in the city by 7:00pm.

lol, don't know many students who can afford to go drink in pubs!

xsiborg

highlydebased wrote: »

lol, don't know many students who can afford to go drink in pubs!

i dont know ANY students that can afford to go drink in pubs, afford being the operative word there, because so many of them instead of using their maintenance grant to buy food, pay rent, etc, use it to go drinking instead. priorities, eh?

but hey, who am i to say what anyone else has a RIGHT (apparently!) to do with MY money. i'll just shut up and continue to hand it over then, shall i?

no, i didnt think so either.

Icky Thump

wow your annoying.

i havent found one thing in what your saying that actually makes sense.


get a job in tesco??? as was said students cant get jobs at the moment and ive tried dear god ive tried. in fact the only way im surviving is the odd bit of work i pick up every so often. but im trying not to be personal when it comes to this topic and prefer to keep this about he general student. talking about my situatin is just one example in a million others.


you said ive gone right back to the dole route..................... please read before posting. i said that i could end up with a good job or i could end up on the dole. they are two options. i would repeat that sentecnce over and over again but im getting the feeling your stuborn. albeit i respect that because im pretty stuborn myself:)


as for you constantly saying your paying for students why dont you sit down and star getting the brain working and then think what your actually paying for................. your paying for Roads, medical, education etc.

as Kess above mentioned 80% of what is spent on education goes to wages. so 80% of what your paying towards education is going towards wages.


get off the high horse mate. ive paid MY fair share of tax and i will do again.

as you said "i'll just shut up and continue to hand it over then, shall i?" well if you dont like it do something about it

what annoys me is people like yourself who will bitch and moan and say something is not right and then when people protest about it youll say "whats the point??" and you accept it


attitudes like that are the reason this country has been screwed over.

take a long look in the mirror mate because you gotta change that attitude.

we have to fight for whats not right. not just accept it.

protesting causes awareness. it might not sove an issue but it brings it to light. it sure a hell does a lot more to resolve an issue than the "whats the point" moto

xsiborg

Icky Thump wrote: »

wow your annoying.

thank you!

Icky Thump wrote: »

i havent found one thing in what your saying that actually makes sense.

just so you know, i took the time to read your posts at least three or four times EACH, so i could understand where you were coming from.

Icky Thump wrote: »

get a job in tesco??? as was said students cant get jobs at the moment and ive tried dear god ive tried. in fact the only way im surviving is the odd bit of work i pick up every so often. but im trying not to be personal when it comes to this topic and prefer to keep this about he general student. talking about my situatin is just one example in a million others.

try the "need a job" thread on this very forum, or next time you're down around harveys quay, dunnes stores are hiring. also the sky shop up near the train station is hiring.

Icky Thump wrote: »

you said ive gone right back to the dole route..................... please read before posting. i said that i could end up with a good job or i could end up on the dole. they are two options.

you wouldnt consider the dole an "option" if you had the right attitude.

Icky Thump wrote: »

i would repeat that sentecnce over and over again but im getting the feeling your stuborn. albeit i respect that because im pretty stuborn myself:)

admittedly yes, i am stubborn, but also determined and passionate, and certainly as i consider my time a valuable commodity as my money, i'll only spend it on someone i think is worth that investment, hence why i made my excuses for not being able to discuss the points you made in your other post, but i still consider you articulate enough to entertain discussion.

Icky Thump wrote: »

as for you constantly saying your paying for students why dont you sit down and star getting the brain working and then think what your actually paying for................. your paying for Roads, medical, education etc.

i AM thinking about what im actually paying for, but those are not relevant to this current discussion, so i left them out, instead what's relevant here is what YOU are asking me to continue paying for. the government doesnt think i should continue to pay it, and while i tend to disagree with the government on a lot of things, im totally with them on this one.

Icky Thump wrote: »

as Kess above mentioned 80% of what is spent on education goes to wages. so 80% of what your paying towards education is going towards wages.

i dont have a problem with this, my mother was a primary school teacher for nigh on 30 years, is now retired, but i witnessed the work she put in on a daily basis, even during her "holidays". if the education budget for the other 20% can be better directed to upgrade school facilities instead of funding your decision to further your education, then im all for it.

incidentally, my mother studied to be a teacher in Mary I, and then when she qualified, she used her earnings to put her brother and sister through Mary I, and they too, are now teachers. she wanted me to be a teacher, but i quite quickly told her- "you couldnt pay me enough!".

and when i worked in dell, i met plenty of sub teachers that were put on "waiting panels" until a position became available. see? alternative employment to what they had trained and studied for, because they too were faced with the choice to "go on the dole", or seek alternative employment.

Icky Thump wrote: »

get off the high horse mate. ive paid MY fair share of tax and i will do again.

im not on any high horse, but i wont ask you to jump from the self-entitlement gravy train either.

there is no such thing as your "fair share" when it comes to taxation, you'll understand this concept better when you are actually employed, and living in your house, with the car, the wedding and the kids.

Icky Thump wrote: »

as you said "i'll just shut up and continue to hand it over then, shall i?" well if you dont like it do something about it

i dont have to, the government is doing something about it for me.

Icky Thump wrote: »

what annoys me is people like yourself who will bitch and moan and say something is not right

touché.

Icky Thump wrote: »

and then when people protest about it youll say "whats the point??" and you accept it

no, i will say what's the point in protesting? look what happened with the london riots and in greece, that was "real" productive, wasnt it?

but yes, i do accept that you are going to protest anyway, regardless of my opinion.

Icky Thump wrote: »

attitudes like that are the reason this country has been screwed over.

no, its attitudes like "we'll go on the dole if you dont give us what we want!", that are the reason this country has been screwed over.

Icky Thump wrote: »

take a long look in the mirror mate because you gotta change that attitude.

*cough cough*.

Icky Thump wrote: »

we have to fight for whats not right. not just accept it.

im a pacifist, i prefer to work with what im given, to create something i CAN work with.

Icky Thump wrote: »

protesting causes awareness.

protesting causes people who are inconvenienced by a cause they do not support, to become irate.

Icky Thump wrote: »

it might not sove an issue but it brings it to light.

i was acutely aware of the difficulties of funding my further education while you were still receiving free education from the state in primary school.

Icky Thump wrote: »

it sure a hell does a lot more to resolve an issue than the "whats the point" moto

that remains to be seen, particularly in this case. if these protests manage to reverse the governments decision, i'll say it here now and you can hold me to it- i'll eat my mortarboard hat!

Iang87

i agree with xsiborg.

The pretty simple point coming across is the money isn't there to sustain all these people going to college.

It is a right to go to college however it also needs to be stated its a privelege tobe in a position that you can go to college, that needs to be remembered by students who go cos theres nothin else to do

Agent_99

I'm not your typical student, having left school at 16 did a PLC course for 2 years and then went into the workforce, I worked continuously for 22 years paying taxes, VAT stamp duty without asking the government for any assistance have been made redundant twice without any redundancy monies due to the time frame for statutory redundancy payments and having interrupted work history having kids etc....
I decided to return to college so I could improve my chances of getting a enjoyable well paid job in a field that is a bit more specialized and hopefully will keep me employed. I have 25 contact hrs per week in college but they are over a 4 day period 9-6, i am lucky enough that I have a light day on Friday. I have 4 Lab reports per week taking at least 2 hours each so that equals min 42 hrs per week before I even do any extra reading/studying.
I still have to go home each night and become "Mum" again school runs and training sessions at weekend for my boys. I have not been a burden to the country i have been an asset Why should I have to pay fees and now I just want to finish my Degree without the threat of fees being held over my head so I can get on with life, work and being able to afford to sent my own 2 kids to college.
Believe me that "student life" is not all parties and drinking, my working days were easier as I could switch off at night and book holidays when i needed days off.

osarusan

xsiborg wrote: »

but hey, who am i to say what anyone else has a RIGHT (apparently!) to do with MY money. i'll just shut up and continue to hand it over then, shall i?

It's not your money. You pay tax to the government, who allocate it as they see fit. Your only real say in how it is spent is through your vote.

And yes, you will continue to hand it over, as you're legally obliged to do so. Try telling the taxman you're refusing to pay tax because you don't like students getting anything, and see where you end up.

And on the other side of the argument, you only have a 'right to free [third level] education' because the government gives you that right. If they decide not to do that any more, students no longer have that right. It is by no means an inalienable right. It does not exist in many other countries in the world, and hasn't always existed in this country.

xsiborg

Agent_99 wrote: »

I'm not your typical student, having left school at 16 did a PLC course for 2 years and then went into the workforce, I worked continuously for 22 years paying taxes, VAT stamp duty without asking the government for any assistance have been made redundant twice without any redundancy monies due to the time frame for statutory redundancy payments and having interrupted work history having kids etc....
I decided to return to college so I could improve my chances of getting a enjoyable well paid job in a field that is a bit more specialized and hopefully will keep me employed. I have 25 contact hrs per week in college but they are over a 4 day period 9-6, i am lucky enough that I have a light day on Friday. I have 4 Lab reports per week taking at least 2 hours each so that equals min 42 hrs per week before I even do any extra reading/studying.
I still have to go home each night and become "Mum" again school runs and training sessions at weekend for my boys. I have not been a burden to the country i have been an asset Why should I have to pay fees and now I just want to finish my Degree without the threat of fees being held over my head so I can get on with life, work and being able to afford to sent my own 2 kids to college.
Believe me that "student life" is not all parties and drinking, my working days were easier as I could switch off at night and book holidays when i needed days off.

while i understand and empathise with the predicament you find yourself in, the simple fact of the matter is that the state can no longer afford you the luxury of contributing towards your choice to better yourself. it really IS that simple. think of it this way- if your child asks you for money for summer camp say for example, and you cannot afford it, and your says- "but i went last year", you can only simply turn around and say- "well that was LAST year, when i could afford to send you to summer camp, this year i cannot afford to send you to summer camp, because the money simply isnt there!".

same principle applies to state funding for third level fees- the money simply isnt there any more, and no amount of heel kicking or protesting is going to make it appear magically out of thin air.

its unfortunate and like i said, i understand your frustration, but that is simply the facts of the matter.

source

So how many turned up for this and how did it go down?

xsiborg

osarusan wrote: »

It's not your money. You pay tax to the government, who allocate it as they see fit. Your only real say in how it is spent is through your vote.

And yes, you will continue to hand it over, as you're legally obliged to do so. Try telling the taxman you're refusing to pay tax because you don't like students getting anything, and see where you end up.

as i am self employed, yes, it IS my money. i understand my legal obligations to pay tax on income earned, but that is not the argument here. (thanks for the first year biz org lesson anyway).

i never once said i dont like to see the students getting anything, in fact im glad you brought that up, i can see where the confusion might arise. i am more than happy to lend my individual support to anyone i see trying to better themselves, in fact i've helped many of my friends in third level education to complete assignments and thesis' and so on.

what i am simply trying to say here, is that i currently do not have the financial resources at my disposal to continue to financially support those who wish to better themselves by attending third level education. i completely agree with those who say that it is unfortunate that we cannot continue to fund students in their pursuit of knowledge. if you knew me at all, im all about giving back, i never forgot where i came from, but i cannot afford to give any more financial support. i too have my own financial commitments, i must place priority on those before i can afford to think about giving to others.

one of those as you quite rightly pointed out, is my annual tax bill, and then i will have to budget for the year ahead to see are there any alternatives or avenues available to me to increase revenues.

this is what students will have to do when their funding is cut, or their fees are increased. they will have to find alternative means of generating income. the more resourceful and determined ones will, the lazier ones will simply drop out and join the ever increasing dole queues (seems to be the most popular alternative put forward, but theres an argument for another thread right there).

at least they CAN claim social welfare. if my business goes tits up in the morning, i can claim nothing from the state.

osarusan wrote: »

And on the other side of the argument, you only have a 'right to free [third level] education' because the government gives you that right. If they decide not to do that any more, students no longer have that right. It is by no means an inalienable right. It does not exist in many other countries in the world, and hasn't always existed in this country.

thank you for putting this out there, echoes my sentiments exactly.

xsiborg

source wrote: »

So how many turned up for this and how did it go down?

given that they even had to lay on buses for students within a two mile radius of the town to try to get them to go, i cant image there was a huge attendance.

i did see however only a small handful of students walking down from Mary I as i went to collect my son from school.

this is what gets on my tits aswel though, when i read the poster in the OP i thought "buses laid on... from UL? LIT? all within walking distance?", if the students were any way passionate about their cause, they would have WALKED in from UL and LIT, their banners and placards held up all the way in, to get as much exposure as possible for their cause!

i can just imagine- "im not going to any protest in town! oh buses laid on, saves me a walk i suppose!".

tiannamen square it aint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ

The Snipe

source wrote: »

So how many turned up for this and how did it go down?

Good few there actually! Went very well, I've photos that I'll be uploading later!

PJTierney

I was at one of these a few years ago when I studied in LSAD, would like to see today's pics to see the difference in attendance. Was everybody asked to wear red again?

The Snipe

Most of them were wearing a sloganed red t-shirt.