At what point does old gear become 'Vintage'?

Gaspode

Had a discussion with a friend today about an old practise amp I have, which I just think of as ancient/decrepit but he reckons is 'vintage'.
I find it hard to accept that anything from the 80s is vintage, I reckon 60s or earlier is vintage.
Also, I reckon unless the gear is high quality and reasonably rare, it's not something you could class as a vintage item.

Any thoughts?

Ravelleman

For me it has to be an iconic or ground breaking design. So unfortunately, a practice amp from the 1980s is not 'vintage' as it doesn't represent anything new. In fact, one could even argue that it has become obsolete given the wide array of amps with much better features available nowadays for roughly the same price.

Following that logic, some guitars from the 1980s could well be considered 'vintage'. Some Charvels from the period, for example, are highly sought after and could be thought of as the 'vintage' of their niche. The prices are never as high as 'vintage' Fenders and the like given that the volume produced was much higher and time has yet to take such a toll on the guitars.

But just because a classic guitar model may be old, doesn't mean that they are vintage. For me a 1979 Fender Strat is most definitely not 'vintage' as the decline of quality and change in features from the iconic 1950s and 1960s examples is well document.

I find it funny when people on adverts claim that a 1988 Fender American Standard Strat is either 'vintage' or 'as close as you'll get' because it's not.

rcaz

For something to be a 'vintage' X, doesn't it just have to represent the best of a particular time period? So when someone says a Telecaster is a 'vintage Fender Tele', they're saying it's a Telecaster that best represents the peak of Telecasters in the 20th Century or something? It's not to do with being iconic or groundbreaking, it's about representing the peak of a particular interval of time.

...So if you say something's vintage, you should label your axes. Amirite?

spoonbadger

When it goes on adverts...

Gaspode

spoonbadger wrote: »

When it goes on adverts...

Yeah, sounds about right!


Adverts/ebay/donedeal etc often has gear with the word 'vintage' tagged on because it's old rather than because it was a high quality item in it's day.

I'm inclined to believe that just because somethings older than 25-30 years it doesn't make it special unless it was special when it was brand new.

I bought an OK solid state Carlsboro combo amp in the 80s, and if I had it now it would still be just 'OK', but certainly not vintage.

Paolo_M

It seems like the wine making has influenced the meaning of the word vintage.
In wine making vintage the term have evolved to mean both a specific age (where all the grapes were from the same year), but also high level of quality and manufacturing technique.

AFAIK, this indication of quality is not actually implied with any other items, it's just the age, which is 25 years +. So the Adverts guys aren't strictly mis-advertising, but there is still the common belief that vintage = quality from the wine industry which they play on.

TroutMask

Consider that Marshall were still making hand-wired JMP heads in 1980 - these are a 'vintage' design and sound great. Also, the 80's was the decade that digital synthesis took off: many of these units are considered vintage.

As for me, if it sounds good, that's the main thing, though it must be said that I don't like over-designed equipment and this means that a lot of the modern stuff does not interest me. If it looks cool too, all the better.

Grolschevik

TroutMask wrote: »

Consider that Marshall were still making hand-wired JMP heads in 1980 - these are a 'vintage' design and sound great. Also, the 80's was the decade that digital synthesis took off: many of these units are considered vintage.

As for me, if it sounds good, that's the main thing, though it must be said that I don't like over-designed equipment and this means that a lot of the modern stuff does not interest me. If it looks cool too, all the better.

Similarly, I'd say any of the first generation of high-quality Japanese clones of classic guitar designs, from the late '70s/early '80s might count as vintage now...

Yakult

Paolo_M wrote: »

AFAIK, this indication of quality is not actually implied with any other items, it's just the age, which is 25 years +. So the Adverts guys aren't strictly mis-advertising, but there is still the common belief that vintage = quality from the wine industry which they play on.

This.

Gaspode wrote: »

I'm inclined to believe that just because somethings older than 25-30 years it doesn't make it special unless it was special when it was brand new.

Vintage does not have to mean special imo. Once its 25 years or older its vintage.

Demeyes

I don't think "Vintage" has any real connection with something being great or good, I just take it to mean older. I think "Classic" would fit better for designs that are legendary and known to be good.

seachto7

Maybe, similar to wine, with guitars, as they age, they start to feel and sound better? As in, the wood ages, assuming it was a good quality instrument to start with.
I have come across many old instruments that were pieces of sh*t.

I don't buy into the whole vintage/classic thing anyways. If it's good, it's good, whether it's new or 30 years old. The old one could be overpriced, the new one could be just as good.

I would say one thing I noticed from playing old instruments. I have a relatively new Japanese fender jazzmaster, and a guy I know has one from the late 80s/early 90s I think. (he thinks). The neck on it is one of the nicest I have every played. It doesn't seem to have the lacquer coating on the back of it that mine has. I don't know whether it has worn off with time, or if that was the way it came, either way, it's so so nice to play, and always feels different to my own, even though I do still like mine too.....

rcaz

Some wine goes bad with age too y'know

CianRyan

Nice instruments that go aren't made anymore are generally seen as vintage to me, that and Strat's, Tele's and LP's from the first 10 years of production or there abouts.
I've played more that are bollockes than those that'd make me want to drop €50-€100k on.

Grolschevik

El Pr0n wrote: »

Some wine goes bad with age too y'know

Completely off topic, but nice one on going Mod! Just noticed that now...

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

well from what i see on adverts, an item is "vintage" when the seller tries to justify the high asking price

quicklickpaddy

Regretfully i am selling my sm57, best microphone for snares, cabs, toms, it's just the best! it has wear signs but perfect working condition and like wine it gets better with age

Just reminded me of this thread... So at what point are 57's vintage?

Malice

Grolschevik wrote: »

Completely off topic, but nice one on going Mod! Just noticed that now...

It's amazing what happens when you bribe are nice to the Cat Mod .

Portlawslim

Stephanie Shapely Rhinestone wrote: »

well from what i see on adverts, an item is "vintage" when the seller tries to justify the high asking price

Ok I sold Boss DM-2 on adverts and it was "vintage" (your opion's welcome'd) Why?
Japanese made and I had it for 26 years and I got it second hand...:cool:
Am I right or wrong