Fianna Fáil proposes corporate donations ban

ednwireland

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1118/donations.html

:eek: just :eek: coming from FF the calender must have been reset and its april 1st

Fianna Fáil has this morning moved a bill in the Dáil that would seek to ban corporate donations.

Party leader Micheál Martin said the text of the proposed amendment is simple and would only allow parties to accept funding from those entitled to vote in an election.

He said the intention is to copper-fasten laws that already exist and that there is a need to restore public faith in the political system.

The proposal would also mean non-resident citizens could not make donations.

Deputy Martin said the Government parties often criticise Fianna Fáil for ''the Galway tent''. He said that had ended four years ago and, unlike Fine Gael events, journalists could see who was there.

Sinn Féin's Mary Lou McDonald told the Dáil her party will support the bill, however she said they wanted to go further and undertake a root and branch reform of the system.

She called for an end to political appointments to State Boards and said Sinn Féin wanted to dismantle the golden circles that have been protected by the established parties.

mrsoundie

Bit shocked by this. Fianna Fail proposing a ban on corporate donations, I am confused. What does this mean? What is happening to Ireland?

Mr Freeze

Perhaps they are not getting as many donations as they used to get, and decided, if they can't get donations, then no one should!

dougal

Sean Gallagher probably told them he is unavailable to collect them anymore!

leeroybrown

From what I've seen Fianna Fáil's funding model has moved from a large corporate donation model to a small grass-roots directed donation model. Their most of their large corporate donors will have abandoned them a few years ago and many of them are bankrupt or in NAMA now. That funding model no longer suits them.

Also, if I had to guess, I'd suggest that they'll try to push for a model/situation where trade union donations would be prohibited by the rules too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

They've found a way of hiding them, in other words.

anymore

mrsoundie wrote: »

Bit shocked by this. Fianna Fail proposing a ban on corporate donations, I am confused. What does this mean? What is happening to Ireland?

It means that FF is getting sweet feck all now from the corproate sector - given that FF have bankrupted so many co's, and so they have nothing left to lose - excpet making themselves look completely stupid ......again !
Has Martin given up his teacher's job yet ?

chimmy chonga

Is Fianna Fail still around??:mad:

Red Right Hand

Bad news. This means they want taxpayer funding.

Mr.Micro

I had a laugh when I saw the headline. Poor FF is afraid now of sinking further into the slime and its rivals FG, Labour etc getting all the cake. The Crony party, Galway tent, meet Biffo for 5K party and get a photo as well, want to ban corporate donations.....at least until it gets power again.

raymon

Ahhh the brown envelopes, corrupt payments , and backhanders must have dried up.

raymon

Is this the same Michael Martin who lodged a developers donation into his wife's bank account .

Hopefully he will propose a ban on this too.

mrsoundie

To my mature recollection, I don't recall that.

Godge

Is this some kind of joke? The only way they are serious is if the proposed legislation has some inbuilt loopholes.

hallelujajordan

A strong move by FF and one that should be celebrated by anyone who wants to see reform in Irish politics.

mrsoundie

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A strong move by FF and one that should be celebrated by anyone who wants to see reform in Irish politics.

Yes we should, however as anyone can see this is the FF hypocrisy at work, about the same as tearing into FG for the mortgage crisis.

This has been said before but now FF see this as an opportunity to score points.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A strong move by FF and one that should be celebrated by anyone who wants to see reform in Irish politics.

I completely disagree, this was a weak , populist, and disingenuous move by these FFers .

The brown envelopes have come to a standstill for them .

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A strong move by FF and one that should be celebrated by anyone who wants to see reform in Irish politics.

Despite the fact that they refused to suggest this for the 10 years or more when they would have had to implement it ?

Absolute lack-of-credibility posturing.

If they wanted this they should have proposed it last year.

thebman

FG were already going to do this AFAIK

Mr.Micro

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A strong move by FF and one that should be celebrated by anyone who wants to see reform in Irish politics.

I think it more that FF not in power so no influence and no brown envelopes. FF does not want the donations going to others since it will be not be getting any. What a load of spoil sports.

anymore

raymon wrote: »

Is this the same Michael Martin who lodged a developers donation into his wife's bank account .

Hopefully he will propose a ban on this too.

Ah in fairness that was in the days when the Minister for Finance didnt use bank accounts and kept stcks of cash all over the office and when a bailout was something you got at dinners in England !

BOHtox

It's already going to happen. FG said they'd do this in their pre-election campaign.

FloatingVoter

Fianna Fail proposes ban on Fianna Fail

I'd vote for that.

bmaxi

BOHtox wrote: »

It's already going to happen. FG said they'd do this in their pre-election campaign.

So, not going to happen then.

raymon

Here is a hypothetical situation. Let's say a FF bagman calls up 20 directors of the same company..... each is a bona fide voter . Hey presto a FF corporate donation under the radar.
20 x 5000 =100,000

Mr.Micro

raymon wrote: »

Here is a hypothetical situation. Let's say a FF bagman calls up 20 directors of the same company..... each is a bona fide voter . Hey presto a FF corporate donation under the radar.
20 x 5000 =100,000

Only trouble at the moment Raymon is that FF cannot do a lot of favours for the money, unless its on a promise for the future. You can bet though if Corp donations were banned the FF party would invent some way around that like calling it a different name.

thebman

hallelujajordan wrote: »

A strong move by FF and one that should be celebrated by anyone who wants to see reform in Irish politics.

Well lets see:

He said corporate donations of over €200 would be prohibited unless the donors meet strict conditions.

Details of donors would be included on a public register.

He said the provisions would apply to all corporate bodies, trade unions, charitable organisations, NGOs and others.

The Minister said there would be a reduction in the limits in political donations that would be accepted from €6,348 to €2,500 for donations to a political party, while for the individual it would fall from €2,539 to €1,000.

He announced a reduction in the thresholds of which donations would be declared.

For a political party the limit would fall from €5,078 to €1,500. For an individual the limit will fall from €634 to €600.

So no it doesn't go far enough TBH much like FG's proposed "ban" on corporate donations too.

It is banned except when it isn't oh and 200 quid is nothing so that is grand too. Apparently that is what banned means in Ireland these days...

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Despite the fact that they refused to suggest this for the 10 years or more when they would have had to implement it ?

Absolute lack-of-credibility posturing.

If they wanted this they should have proposed it last year.

Micheal Martin was not the leader of FF last year . . . I have said many times that FF need to change . . This is FF changing . .

raymon wrote: »

I completely disagree, this was a weak , populist, and disingenuous move by these FFers .

So you don't agree with Micheal Martin's suggestion then ?

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Micheal Martin was not the leader of FF last year . . . I have said many times that FF need to change . . This is FF changing . .

Martin reinstated O'Perjuror. There has been no change.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Martin reinstated O'Perjuror. There has been no change.

So, FF proposing a ban on corporate donations is not a change ? ? ?

Godge

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, FF proposing a ban on corporate donations is not a change ? ? ?

It is like a wolf promising not to eat rabbits. An alcoholic promising not to drink. A drug addict promising to get clean. A ball promising not to roll. An apple promising not to fall from a tree. gravity promising not to work. A leopard promising to change its spots.

The FF proposal has the same status.

hallelujajordan

Godge wrote: »

It is like a wolf promising not to eat rabbits. An alcoholic promising not to drink. A drug addict promising to get clean. A ball promising not to roll. An apple promising not to fall from a tree. gravity promising not to work. A leopard promising to change its spots.

The FF proposal has the same status.

Ridiculous analogy . . FF are not just promising they will not accept corporate donations; they are proposing a change in the law to make corporate donations illegal.

thebman

Not ban, reduction... Just because they use the word ban, does not a ban make when their change would still allow corporate donations...

Solair

All I'll say is HAHAHAHAHA

What's next? Texan Republicans propose conversion to socialism, a gun ban and immediate introduction of gay marriage?

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So you don't agree with Micheal Martin's suggestion then ?

To be honest , I don't trust Michael Martin and look with suspicion on everything he says.

Sierra Oscar

Fianna Fáil is leading by example in this situation, where the party leader has made a firm commitment that the funding for the party will now rely upon the monies associated with the collection of the superdraw rather than corporate donations.

That leads a lot to be desired from both Fine Gael & Labour, who collected vast sums of money prior to the presidential election to fund their respective campaigns. Fine Gael alone raised upwards to €1 million in this manner. This is before we even discuss the monies that FG raised from corporate bodies for the General Election campaign.

Time for both FG & Labour to practice what they preach. This is the second time FF have introduced a private members bill in the attempt of reforming corporate donations, only for both attempts to be shot down immediately by both FG & Labour. Also just to note, SF supported this private members bill.

raymon wrote: »

I completely disagree, this was a weak , populist, and disingenuous move by these FFers .

And the false promises that FG/Lab made in regards corporate donations are not just that?

StupidLikeAFox

Brian Lenihan asked about this in the Dail back in APRIL, when Gilmore said that the legislation was on the way and that donations from trade unions would also be banned

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/04/06/00003.asp

Pride Fighter

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Fianna Fáil is leading by example in this situation, where the party leader has made a firm commitment that the funding for the party will now rely upon the monies associated with the collection of the superdraw rather than corporate donations.

That leads a lot to be desired from both Fine Gael & Labour, who collected vast sums of money prior to the presidential election to fund their respective campaigns. Fine Gael alone raised upwards to €1 million in this manner. This is before we even discuss the monies that FG raised from corporate bodies for the General Election campaign.

Time for both FG & Labour to practice what they preach. This is the second time FF have introduced a private members bill in the attempt of reforming corporate donations, only for both attempts to be shot down immediately by both FG & Labour. Also just to note, SF supported this private members bill.



And the false promises that FG/Lab made in regards corporate donations are not just that?

Fianna Fail accept corporate donations and this is extremely hypocritical by them. It is basically turkey's voting for Christmas by them.

As much as I dislike them Sinn Fein and the ULA are the real opposition in this country. And FG and Labour are implementing Fianna Fail policy anyway so it is hypocritical in the extreme to criticise them.

Also Labour does not accept corporate donations unlike FF and FG.

Sierra Oscar

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Fianna Fail accept corporate donations and this is extremely hypocritical by them. It is basically turkey's voting for Christmas by them.

Again, corporate donations no longer form a part of the FF financing plan. The party is already implementing procedures to ensure the party is only funded through donations made by individuals and through the monies raised through the annual superdraw. That work has been ongoing for months at this stage.

Tragedy

The Tánaiste: That is why the totality of the Government’s economic programme is aimed at the creation of jobs. The jobs budget will be introduced in the month of May. The detail of how many jobs it is intended to support and the precise measures to provide and support the provision of jobs will be contained in that budget statement.

Did a jobs budget in May completely pass me by?

StupidLikeAFox

They downgraded it from a "budget" to an "initiative"

http://www.kpmg.ie/financeact2011/headlines/JobsInitiative.htm

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Fianna Fáil is leading by example in this situation, where the party leader has made a firm commitment that the funding for the party will now rely upon the monies associated with the collection of the superdraw rather than corporate donations.

The Gallagher bagman debacle showed us that the " he may have given me an envelope , but I don't know what was in it " culture is alive and kicking in FF , where clever words can try to fool us.

Even Martin himself admitted to taking " donations " from a developer and lodging one large one into his wife's bank account

So you can hopefully forgive me for not cheering along .

All parties should declare all donations , even the brown envelopes .

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

To be honest , I don't trust Michael Martin and look with suspicion on everything he says.

That wasn't the question I asked. . . . Do you agree with his proposal to ban corporate donations ?

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Fianna Fail accept corporate donations and this is extremely hypocritical by them. It is basically turkey's voting for Christmas by them.

So, a party cannot recognise that something that has been routine in the past should not be part of the future ?

Pride Fighter wrote:

Also Labour does not accept corporate donations unlike FF and FG.

You're kidding, right ? Go look up the donations made to the Labour party by the various unions.

raymon wrote: »

The Gallagher bagman debacle showed us that the " he may have given me an envelope , but I don't know what was in it " culture is alive and kicking in FF , where clever words can try to fool us.

Rubbish, there was no debacle, its likely that there was no brown envelope and the fundraiser attended by Gallagher is the same kind of fundraiser run by all the parties in Ireland . . Enda Kenny, is only too happy to pull on his golfing shoes to make a few quid for the party.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

That wasn't the question I asked. . . . Do you agree with his proposal to ban corporate donations ? .

I think all donations should be banned. Especially the brown envelope type personal donation that has characterised FF for too long

If you read the wording of the proposal , personal donations will still be ok. I find this to be a hideous proposal.

Personal donations are the type of payment most open to corruption by FF primarily

So to answer your question , I disagree with the proposal . This is business as usual for the brown envelope brigade

Pride Fighter

hallelujajordan wrote: »

You're kidding, right ? Go look up the donations made to the Labour party by the various unions.

Unions are not corporations. Also the amount they give the Labour Party amounts to 2% of their fundraising and is a pretty low amount in comparison to the amount of brown envelopes Fianna Fail collects and corporate donations Fine Gael receive.

Also the current government is preparing legislation to ban corporate donations and will include banning union donations too, so this is merely a cynical vote getting exercise.

PRAF

Haven't read the detail of the FF proposal but I'm all for anything that provides for some real reform of politics and ends the corrupt, cronyism culture that we've been saddled with for years.

I'll admit it is a bit rich for FF to start wanting this now all of a sudden after being in power for most of the last 25 years. However, I don't care who proposes it as long as it gets done.

Pride Fighter

PRAF wrote: »

Haven't read the detail of the FF proposal but I'm all for anything that provides for some real reform of politics and ends the corrupt, cronyism culture that we've been saddled with for years.

I'll admit it is a bit rich for FF to start wanting this now all of a sudden after being in power for most of the last 25 years. However, I don't care who proposes it as long as it gets done.

I'd agree that it definitely should be done. But FF should claim no credit for this, it has been in the programme for government since March so FF are not proposing it, the current government is.

bonzos

One thing FF have always been good for is jobs for the boys!!!
http://www.sligochampion.ie/news/lecturer-threatened-to-resign-from-the-board-2938205.html

Sierra Oscar

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I'd agree that it definitely should be done. But FF should claim no credit for this, it has been in the programme for government since March so FF are not proposing it, the current government is.

It is was an FF private members bill, drafted and written up by FF. I am all for giving FG the credit they deserve if they do introduce legislation, but we are waiting for well over half a year now.

What happened to this being an immediate priority for FG? We were told they had legislation drafted and ready for publishing on this matter. I will tell you what happened - FG needed the money for the presidential election and have now become fond of corporate donations I suspect. The party will be forced to fight two bloody elections in 2014 afterall, and per usual FG will try and win those by throwing money at the campaign.

Oh and another little fact . . . out of all the political parties, FG are the party which are most reliant upon corporate donations. Their current leader, Enda Kenny, removed the ban that was in place within the party which prohibited corporate donations when he came to power. It is on the back of corporate money that FG was rebuilt.

FG members would lead you to believe that the party managed to gain its massive election war chests solely from its annual members collection, although I guess that is what the FG leadership and HQ lead them to believe too. That is not entirely the case, as the party has received significant donations from corporate entities over the last decade - most often from the construction and financial sectors.

FF got stick for its corporate culture (which was excessive and uncalled for) because it was in government. FG had its own "Galway Tents" across the country (K-Club fund-raiser is a classic example) but got away with it under the radar.

FG have throughout history been the party which interacts with corporate entities eagerly. Michael Noonan tried to break that trend when he became leader by banning internal corporate donations within FG (funny how the party imploded a few years later), because he rightly recognised the damage such interaction with corporate entities can do. Enda Kenny however is of a different mindset entirely. We await action on this matter Taoiseach.

hallelujajordan

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Unions are not corporations. Also the amount they give the Labour Party amounts to 2% of their fundraising and is a pretty low amount in comparison to the amount of brown envelopes Fianna Fail collects and corporate donations Fine Gael receive.

Also the current government is preparing legislation to ban corporate donations and will include banning union donations too, so this is merely a cynical vote getting exercise.

Thank you, I know that Unions are not corporations. . . However they donate with similar vested interests that any corporations may have !

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I'd agree that it definitely should be done. But FF should claim no credit for this, it has been in the programme for government since March so FF are not proposing it, the current government is.

Lots of things that were in the programme for government are being ignored and FF should not stop pushing forward their agenda because it happens to be in the PfG. If FG are keen to make this happen, why don't they just propose amendments to the FF bill and then allow it to go through . .

bonzos wrote: »

One thing FF have always been good for is jobs for the boys!!!
http://www.sligochampion.ie/news/lecturer-threatened-to-resign-from-the-board-2938205.html

The current government are pretty good at it too. . . linky

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Martin reinstated O'Perjuror. There has been no change.

So, FF proposing a ban on corporate donations is not a change ? ? ?

I suspect that if they were likely to benefit from it that they wouldn't propose it. They're only proposing it in order to minimise the impact of their demise.

So no - there's no change. The same mindset prevails.