The Dutch know how to do it.....

Mycroft H

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVM99OOo86A

The city of Den Bosch. If only dublin could do the same.....

Plus its odd from an Irish perspective to see only the stereotypical dutch bicycle and nothing else

fat bloke

BX 19 wrote: »

Plus its odd from an Irish perspective to see only the stereotypical dutch bicycle and nothing else

Yeah, it's mental. Where's the variety?

Plus I think I'd rather walk than cycle one of them gates :pac:

GlennaMaddy

For a minute there I thought I was going to see the lanky guy in a grey suit smack his head off the underpass

Rowley Birkin QC

Never considered owning anything other than a bike for transport when I lived in Holland, wouldn't consider anything other than a car in Ireland.

Based simply on the quality of the infrastructure and put in place and attitudes towards cyclists in both cities.

RobFowl

Not a helmet to be seen!!
Absolutely disgraceful.............

denlaw

what a great place to live ...

Holyboy

It's like city cycling heaven and yes they are all on "hybrids" as so many on here insist on calling them, we need to take a leaf out of their book and stop so much with the constant "drop bar, drop bar, DROP BAR, you'll be sorry you didn't get a drop bar bike"

Sorry rant over, wrong thread really:rolleyes:

Icyseanfitz

i wouldnt be worried about the lack of drop bars on those bikes, more so the crazy shed like weight must be a really flat city, really cool cycle lane layout though

marketty

Lovely flat city with great cycle lanes and courteous drivers...all they need now is drops and aerobars, get the head down and TT to work! ;-)

Tenzor07

Dutch "high nelly" bikes are perfect for there flat cities...

Den Bosch just took it to the next level in the Netherlands.. Just a pity we are light years away from having anywhere near what they have there... both in terms of culture, infrastructure and education/attitude....

High Nellie

RobFowl wrote: »

Not a helmet to be seen!!
Absolutely disgraceful.............

And no hi-vis or brightly coloured clothes! Someone ring Joe Duffy ....

mrsFitz

BX 19 wrote: »

Plus its odd from an Irish perspective to see only the stereotypical dutch bicycle and nothing else

There is a reason it is called a Dutch bike, people in Holland use them all the time and want their bike to be comfortable and be practical and useful.
Mountain bike and road bike might be stylish, but not very practical for day to day use.
On weekends you'd see a fair amount of mamil's (middle aged men in lycra) using the roads, so I am assuming this was filmed on a weekday

charlemont

Col video, But I couldn't see it being replicated here. Our cycle lanes are actually just a big joke.

Tenzor07

mrsFitz wrote: »

Mountain bike and road bike might be stylish, but not very practical for day to day use.
On weekends you'd see a fair amount of mamil's (middle aged men in lycra) using the roads, so I am assuming this was filmed on a weekday

You will rarely if ever see a "fancy" bike in the city's during the week, they would just get nicked... a good oul 40lb Dutch bike is grand.. just make sure you have a good lock too!

victorcarrera

Not in Ireland in my lifetime. I can't imagine irish motorists conceding precedence on those segregated roundabouts and it will take generations for the cyclists to overcome the fear of being hit to have the confidence to cycle through them.

Seaswimmer

I am a regular cycle commuter on a drop bar lightweight bike. However I recently purchased a Gazelle (BTW scheme) for shorter trips into and around town and for anything else where the "drop bar" bike is not suitable. I find it fantastic. Its so simple with 8 speed hub gears, hub brakes, hub dynamo, proper rack, adjustable handlebars ect. You would not be doing huge mileage on it but I have done a couple of 12 mile spins into and out of work when i need to carry more than a backpack will take.. For comparison my normal commute is about 50 minutes but takes about 57 on the Gazelle.
I think these are the types of bike we should be trying to sell to people who are starting off cycling. How many times have you seen people struggle with triple front chainrings trying to select the correct gear. We also solve the lighting problem straight away. The cycling position is upright and the brakes work well no matter what the weather... A novice cyclist would feel very secure on one of these types of bike..

Cookie_Monster

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Dutch "high nelly" bikes are perfect for there flat cities...

Used them while in Dutchland on day on hols, I hated them. Hugely heavy and awful uncomfortable upright position

tomasrojo

One thing I like a great deal about such bikes is that you don't have to remember to bring much with you. You just bring what you would bring if you were walking (more or less). The lights are built in, there's usually a nurse's lock, plenty of space to mount a second lock, there are proper mudguards, you don't need shoes with cleats, etc.

So just put your satchel or handbag or whatever in the basket, or on the rear carrier, and off you go.

Of course, they're not well suited to racing or touring, but since most people in the Netherlands are cycling quite short distances, "Dutch" bikes are a good choice.

setanta159

I am currently living in Holland and cycle everywhere. On weekends I take the road bike out on wonderful roads/cycle lanes. During the week I go everywhere on my 'town' bike...shop, work, cinema etc. Cost €60 second hand but good enough to get around on. Apart from the fact that cyclists normally have the right of way and that drivers are courteous I have made one other amazing observation from an Irish cyclists perspective.......I have not seen a single pothole since arriving here back in August and have cycled well over 2k in that time. It is another world which was really brought back to me when I recently spent a few days back in Dublin and decided to take the winter bike out for a spin. The roads were shocking, the drivers either oblivious to the presence of cyclists or actively aggressive towards them and of course the total lack of a cycling infrastructure. It's also only in a place like the Netherlands that you see the real possibilities for cycling and how pervasive an activity it can be.
Here's a few photos near the local train station (if i can manage to upload them)...taken on a Sunday

irelandrover

setanta159 wrote: »

I am currently living in Holland and cycle everywhere. On weekends I take the road bike out on wonderful roads/cycle lanes. During the week I go everywhere on my 'town' bike...shop, work, cinema etc. Cost €60 second hand but good enough to get around on. Apart from the fact that cyclists normally have the right of way and that drivers are courteous I have made one other amazing observation from an Irish cyclists perspective.......I have not seen a single pothole since arriving here back in August and have cycled well over 2k in that time. It is another world which was really brought back to me when I recently spent a few days back in Dublin and decided to take the winter bike out for a spin. The roads were shocking, the drivers either oblivious to the presence of cyclists or actively aggressive towards them and of course the total lack of a cycling infrastructure. It's also only in a place like the Netherlands that you see the real possibilities for cycling and how pervasive an activity it can be.
Here's a few photos near the local train station (if i can manage to upload them)...taken on a Sunday

I live in Holland too and used to cycle everywhere. Unfortunately recently i had to move about 80km from work so now have to drive or train it. THe dutch attitude to cycling really is fantatic. To see the CEO of the company cycle into work in his suit is great.

Off topic, but are those photos taken outside Nijmegen train station?

The Orb

.....and people can park their cars for very low cost...
There's the difference, in this country that would be looked on as an opportunity to gouge money from people, something by the people for the people

triggermortis

I was recently in Holland for a course, near Amsterdam and the infrastructure is just so well set up for cyclists and pedestrians.
I had to walk from my hotel to the course each day - only about 20 mins - but every time I had to cross a road on a crossing, cars would stop well before getting near me. Cyclists were afforded even more courtesy when their lanes crossed roads at junctions.
It was hard to get used to at first, but after a while, I was worried I might get run over when I got back home if I treated a crossing here the same way.

galwaycyclist

The Orb wrote: »

.....and people can park their cars for very low cost...
There's the difference, in this country that would be looked on as an opportunity to gouge money from people, something by the people for the people

Hmm sorry but you've likely missed the point. The issue is that in the town centre they probably can't park their cars at all or the parking is very expensive.

The reason they have the park and ride on the outskirts, and by extension the reason the space for some of their cycling infrastructure, is because they have made a strong commitment to discouraging private car use for short journeys.

A commitment to confonting the impacts of car use on other modes of travel is also the reason for the consideration shown to pedestrians anf cyclists.

In Ireland the state takes the opposite view and seeks to facilitate private car use to the greatest extent possible regardless of the impacts on other modes of travel.

DePurpereWolf

Space, a great commodity.
Den Bosch is a medieval city much like Cork, yet in the Netherlands they are not afraid to tear down the odd building for the purpose of a better city infrastructure. You also can't build an 8 feet stone wall at the edge of the road to mark your property because it impedes vision for drivers and it's scary for cyclist. I'd rather fall in the bushes than get crushed against a wall. I see so many dangerous situations in Cork due to historical artefacts and bad city planning. There doesn't seem to be a grand plan for the city.

It's nice when the city invests in cycle paths but it is mostly patchwork. You base your decision to bike to work on the overal safety and comfort of the route. You can have miles of comfortable cycleways but if the last yards are funnel streets, crazy crossings and blind corners it would be all for nothing.

I find that missing in Cork. You have to either do it well, or don't do it at all.

CamperMan

Germany also has many dedicated cycle tracks, there are also many footpaths that have decent cycle lanes, I cycled twice in Ireland and hated it, narrow roads, feckwits driving to close to you at speed... here in Germany it is a delight, you can cycle 100's of miles on proper unhindered cycle tracks..

http://www.elbe-cycle-route.com/start.html

can't wait until next spring to start cycling the long tracks again

gerryk

triggermortis wrote: »

I was recently in Holland for a course, near Amsterdam and the infrastructure is just so well set up for cyclists and pedestrians.
I had to walk from my hotel to the course each day - only about 20 mins - but every time I had to cross a road on a crossing, cars would stop well before getting near me. Cyclists were afforded even more courtesy when their lanes crossed roads at junctions.
It was hard to get used to at first, but after a while, I was worried I might get run over when I got back home if I treated a crossing here the same way.

It's the same in many German cities. They have a priority based on vulnerability, so it's pedestrians > cyclists > motorists. Unlike this country where it's based on self-entitlement, which basically means every man for himself, and if you're in the way, tough.

The Orb

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hmm sorry but you've likely missed the point. The issue is that in the town centre they probably can't park their cars at all or the parking is very expensive.

The reason they have the park and ride on the outskirts, and by extension the reason the space for some of their cycling infrastructure, is because they have made a strong commitment to discouraging private car use for short journeys.

A commitment to confonting the impacts of car use on other modes of travel is also the reason for the consideration shown to pedestrians anf cyclists.

In Ireland the state takes the opposite view and seeks to facilitate private car use to the greatest extent possible regardless of the impacts on other modes of travel.

I don't think so, for example the Luas Park and Ride, wants to get people out of their cars and into public transport yet rips people off for the privilege, thereby acting as a disincentive, that's where I was coming from.

rp

CamperMan wrote: »

Germany also has many dedicated cycle tracks, there are also many footpaths that have decent cycle lanes, I cycled twice in Ireland and hated it, narrow roads, feckwits driving to close to you at speed... here in Germany it is a delight, you can cycle 100's of miles on proper unhindered cycle tracks..

Yeah there is good provision for leisure cyclists in Germany (mandatory 'partner look' bikes with the saddles way too low), but the city/commute provision is pretty much as bad as Ireland.

at 00.36 how do the people get their cars out?

Very cool stuff but some of it doesn't look the safest, in the main I would take issue with the cyclists going straight across the road without looking, obviously the cars are expected to stop but some were a bit close for comfort.
Also many pedestrian paths seem to have gone completely for the cycle lanes, looks like the pedestrians now have to walk on the cycle lanes or on the grass.

setanta159

fao irelandrover: Leeuwarden station

Lister1

Not one cyclist wearing a helmet?

henryporter

Lister1 wrote: »

Not one cyclist wearing a helmet?

Of course - they don't have any fear of being knocked down by crazy Irish drivers or inadvertently cycling into illegally parked cars or hitting crater sized potholes etc etc...

RobFowl

Lister1 wrote: »

Not one cyclist wearing a helmet?

RobFowl wrote: »

Not a helmet to be seen!!

Bit slow out of the blocks

DePurpereWolf

Elliot Plain Meatball wrote: »

at 00.36 how do the people get their cars out?

The cars are allowed to drive on the bike path if they need to park there.
The red tarmack is to show that cars have to yield to cyclists but they only have to drive on the cycle path for a short bit until they meet up with a real road.

Very cool stuff but some of it doesn't look the safest, in the main I would take issue with the cyclists going straight across the road without looking, obviously the cars are expected to stop but some were a bit close for comfort.
Also many pedestrian paths seem to have gone completely for the cycle lanes, looks like the pedestrians now have to walk on the cycle lanes or on the grass.

You can't say an infrastructure isn't save because people are not looking. That doesn't make any sense. You can say that cyclist might become complacent and get lazy about looking around but that doesn't really have anything to do with the infrastructure.

A cycle path doesn't have to be for pedestrians as well. But most places would have a walking path somewhere, it might just not be in the screen

Greenman

Before they started to tamper with Dublin and cycle tracks I said get the folks from Holland in to over see and advise otherwise leave it alone.:mad:

Tenzor07

Kona check out Amsterdam's Cycling culture: Link

galwaycyclist

Greenman wrote: »

Before they started to tamper with Dublin and cycle tracks I said get the folks from Holland in to over see and advise otherwise leave it alone.:mad:

You were not the only skeptic. Problem is that the Irish Authorities only wanted to copy the "cycle track" part of the Dutch package - and graft it on to a "Irish practice as usual" approach to road design, traffic management, traffic legislation and town planning.

Likely outcome was to make things worse not better

clonmahon

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Kona check out Amsterdam's Cycling culture: Link

Bikes that last 100 years and get handed down to the next generation, that's why the average cost of a Dutch bike is so high, they buy quality.

DePurpereWolf

Sturmy archer hub, drum brakes (or coaster brake) completely enclosed drive train. Steel frame weighing a hundred pound. The most fragile bits on the bike were the wheels and axels that can go crooket if you are a kid and use these bikes for jumping on and off sidewalks, that's what I remember at least.
But even when the axel is crooket, it still drives.

tomasrojo

I think coaster brakes are the one thing I don't like about some "Dutch" bikes. They make taking the wheel off awkward, and they're not very good brakes either. I think I'd even prefer rod brakes.

Seaswimmer

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think coaster brakes are the one thing I don't like about some "Dutch" bikes. They make taking the wheel off awkward, and they're not very good brakes either. I think I'd even prefer rod brakes.

This is one of the disadvantages of "Dutch" bikes. Changing a tube on the side of the road is difficult. The wheels are hard to get on and off (especially the back) due to hub gears and hub dynamos. I suppose in Holland there are plenty of places to get bike punctures fixed but in Ireland you might have a long walk.
I carry pre glued patches and a repair kit just in case but with the Marathon plus I hope not to get too many problems..

monument

fat bloke wrote: »

Yeah, it's mental. Where's the variety?

Have a look at Amsterdamize's flickr photostream and see all the diffrent bikes they ride in Amsterdam.

fat bloke wrote: »

Plus I think I'd rather walk than cycle one of them gates :pac:

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Dutch "high nelly" bikes are perfect for there flat cities...

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Used them while in Dutchland on day on hols, I hated them. Hugely heavy and awful uncomfortable upright position

Nobody is making anybody or wants to make everybody to cycle Dutch-style bicycles. What makes a bike is its parts, and how they function, and not a bike's looks -- If you think you need extra gears you could have them even on those style of bikes.

Also, it's highly unlikely that any of the bikes are actual High Nellys.

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Never considered owning anything other than a bike for transport when I lived in Holland, wouldn't consider anything other than a car in Ireland.

Based simply on the quality of the infrastructure and put in place and attitudes towards cyclists in both cities.

Why not cycle in Ireland. Sure it's not as good as the Netherlands but more and more people are doing it.

charlemont wrote: »

Col video, But I couldn't see it being replicated here. Our cycle lanes are actually just a big joke.

victorcarrera wrote: »

Not in Ireland in my lifetime. I can't imagine irish motorists conceding precedence on those segregated roundabouts and it will take generations for the cyclists to overcome the fear of being hit to have the confidence to cycle through them.

It could easily happen here, it just needs a big push and loads of support. The support for cycling could be seen as strong here on paper. State and local government policy and what many TDs and councillors say looks very good, but actions are mixed and the better ones are very slow moving.

Individuals also have to want and ask for change, and most important believe it's possible.

Elliot Plain Meatball wrote: »

Very cool stuff but some of it doesn't look the safest, in the main I would take issue with the cyclists going straight across the road without looking, obviously the cars are expected to stop but some were a bit close for comfort.

Who's going across the road without looking? I had a third look at the video and just can't see it anywhere bar where the cyclists were flowing, had a green light and where motorists were already stopped.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

You were not the only skeptic. Problem is that the Irish Authorities only wanted to copy the "cycle track" part of the Dutch package - and graft it on to a "Irish practice as usual" approach to road design, traffic management, traffic legislation and town planning.

Likely outcome was to make things worse not better

A huge problem here.

We mess up on junction design almost every time there's an off road cycle route and traffic law needs adapting.

Mixing of people walking, prams, the blind, wheelchair users and cyclists is not desirable for any user. For example, one of the main things Dublin City councillors complain about is cyclists on footpaths but many junctions on the new canal cycle route mix cyclists and pedestrians.

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think coaster brakes are the one thing I don't like about some "Dutch" bikes. They make taking the wheel off awkward, and they're not very good brakes either. I think I'd even prefer rod brakes.

I've used bikes with coaster brakes a few times now, all took a bit of getting used to but were brilliant. Worked just fine. Must have been something wrong with the bikes you cycled.

tomasrojo wrote: »

...They make taking the wheel off awkward...

Seaswimmer wrote: »

This is one of the disadvantages of "Dutch" bikes. Changing a tube on the side of the road is difficult. The wheels are hard to get on and off (especially the back) due to hub gears and hub dynamos. I suppose in Holland there are plenty of places to get bike punctures fixed but in Ireland you might have a long walk.
I carry pre glued patches and a repair kit just in case but with the Marathon plus I hope not to get too many problems..

Most people don't want to and should not have to be talking their wheels off much, if at all. If you get punctures more than once or twice a year you need to look at puncture resistant tires, as you say something like Marathon Plus.

Most people are not touring or otherwise cycling out in the country and most people are no way going to carry around puncture repair kits for general travel. You can walk, get a lift, get a taxi, cycle on a flat, use a pump once or or even more to get you home or to a bike shop. You can also get a train and should be able to get a Luas and maybe even put the bike on a rack on the front of buses.

Just like cars, the vast bulk of people now and in the future will get their bike fixed in a bicycle shop, or many will just replace the tube rather than repair it. I know there's people on here and in cycling circles who are very well meaning in thinking that, with the growing numbers of cyclists, people should be trained on how to repair their bikes, but I disagree and think it's something which will likely remain mostly a fringe activity.

I would even go as far as saying that enforcing the idea you should be able to fix your own bike could be somewhat counter-productive to getting more people cycling. Sure if people are interested in it, let them find out about bike repair, but it's not something the state or others interesting in promoting cycling should be too worried about.

clonmahon

monument wrote: »

Have a look at Amsterdamize's flickr photostream and see all the diffrent bikes they ride in Amsterdam.

Excellent post monument. I like the text on the Amsterdamize site

"Not 'avid and keen cyclists', just people on bikes, for the destination (work, shops, school, etc), not the ride (that joy is just a given). They also drive cars, use public transport and just walk, not necessarily in that particular order."

This is where we have to get to with cycling in Ireland, right now it is a sporting sub culture mainly the preserve of lycra clad athletic people. There is nothing wrong with lycra clad athletic people bombing along on road bikes, and I love to watch bike racing. But if cycling is to go mainstream we have to get ordinary people onto dutch style or hybrid bikes.

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

I've used bikes with coaster brakes a few times now, all took a bit of getting used to but were brilliant. Worked just fine. Must have been something wrong with the bikes you cycled.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the bikes. They just don't slow the bike down very well, because they act only on the rear wheel. There's nothing can be done about this, as you can only exert so much stopping force on the rear wheel; the problem really was that there was no front brake, but that's quite common with bikes in the Netherlands -- and Denmark, according to my friend who lives there.

I also like lifting one pedal up to two o'clock when I'm waiting for lights to change, but you can't do that with coaster brakes.

They're ok, I'm not saying they're rubbish, but they're only ok. They're very handy in that they're very low-maintenance.

Fair point about the majority of people not wanting to repair whatever their vehicle is. That's undoubtedly true. It's not only the athlete or hobbyist who wants to do bike repair though. I was very reluctant to do my own repairs, but since it was my main way of getting around I couldn't rely on the slow turn-around in most shops. I also found that I couldn't get shops to do full services, as I understood them to be; they only replaced what was worn, rather than fine-tuning. (Perhaps I was unrealistic in expecting that.) So I just learnt to do it myself.

Among my Dutch friends, it was pretty common for friends and neighbours to do repairs for those not inclined to do it themselves, rather than the shops doing it. Maybe that's just students though.

tomasrojo

Funnily enough, my first cycle in the Netherlands was with two friends, one Dutch, one Irish, and one of us did get a puncture. One of the others cycled around to find a shop, where he was scolded for being so silly as to go for a cycle without a repair kit.

monument

tomasrojo wrote: »

I don't think there was anything wrong with the bikes. They just don't slow the bike down very well, because they act only on the rear wheel. There's nothing can be done about this, as you can only exert so much stopping force on the rear wheel; the problem really was that there was no front brake, but that's quite common with bikes in the Netherlands -- and Denmark, according to my friend who lives there.

It's not my experience with coaster breaks, worked quickly and at times too quickly when I was still getting used to it.

tomasrojo wrote: »

I also like lifting one pedal up to two o'clock when I'm waiting for lights to change, but you can't do that with coaster brakes.

Yeah, that was annoying. It nearly makes it understandable why you see bloggers posting about foot stands at traffic lights.

tomasrojo wrote: »

Funnily enough, my first cycle in the Netherlands was with two friends, one Dutch, one Irish, and one of us did get a puncture. One of the others cycled around to find a shop, where he was scolded for being so silly as to go for a cycle without a repair kit.

As here, repair shops can have very strong views on many things that don't reflect what cyclists do -- often that's what repair shops give out about (ie people looking for pumps, or people not carrying their own pumps).

tomasrojo

monument wrote: »

As here, repair shops can have very strong views on many things that don't reflect what cyclists do -- often that's what repair shops give out about (ie people looking for pumps, or people not carrying their own pumps).

God, I'd forgotten about that!

tomasrojo

I think I see the source of the difference in views on the efficacy of the coaster brake. The difference is probably down to how fast you are going when you brake. I found that the coaster brake did lock the rear wheel, but after that point you tend to skid rather than stop, if you were going fast when you braked.

I found it exactly the same as what happens when you only use the rear brake:

using only the rear brake [...] the rear wheel starts to lift, the rear wheel skids, limiting its braking force. Unfortunately, though, it takes twice as long to stop with the rear brake alone as with the front brake alone, so reliance on the rear brake is unsafe for cyclists who ever go fast.

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#rearuse

Maybe coaster brakes are a net safety benefit in that they discourage very fast cycling. Anyway, they're ok if you're not trying to go fast, and not dealing with many hills (since they've a tendency to burn out on hills).

Holyboy

I do like the idea of coaster brakes but I have to say I hate riding a bike with one, I've had a couple of Sachs Pentasport 5 speed coaster brake hubs knocking around for a while which I said I would fit one to my bike at some stage but just couldn't as I know I wouldn't enjoy riding it, so instead I built a S.A. AW 3 speed hub and fitted two sprockets and a rear mech, six gears and two rim brakes:)
I have been told(though it may not be true) the reason that the U.K. and Ireland didn't have bikes with coaster brakes was that Raleigh refused to produce them, all the other European manufactures agreed coaster brakes should be standard but Raleigh held firm, which I find odd as S.A. (owned by Raleigh at the time) produced coaster brakes!
But the whole Raleigh saga is bizarre in it's own right.
But if every bike you have ridden since a child has had one I suppose it's just the norm and you're used to it.

Lumen

At the risk of stating the obvious, a coaster brake is just a type of drum brake that is actuated by the drivetrain itself rather than a a hand lever.

Lever-actuated front and rear drum brakes are fine. That's what Dublin Bikes use, right?

Riding a bike with no front brake is suicidal.

DePurpereWolf

I would say that in the netherlands the coaster brakes would be for the cheaper bikes.

You don't have to remove the rear-wheel to fix a hole in the tyre. You can leave on the panniers and mudguards as well. The dress guards clip-off so it's easy to remove these.
It's more difficult but not impossible.

The general idea in the netherlands is that you have a pump with you at all times, and you're suppose to have a (simson) repair kit. When you get a flat you can do three things, pump it up and hope you can make it home, call mammy to pick you up, fix it yourself on the side of the road.

When home, it makes more sense removing the mudguards and panniers and leave the rear-wheel on the bike to fix the hole.