Diet and Running

SWL

I presently run approx. 35 -40 miles a week. I have been trying to lose some weight, presently weight 95kg and I am 6’4”. I want to get my weight down to less than 90kg possibility low 80’s. Using calorie calculator I should be consuming approx. 3,500 calories a day for maintenance.

My runs consume approx. 700 – 1000 calories per run according to my Garmin. I eat approx. 2,500 calories per day pretty good diet no junk, takeaways etc. my weight loss despite the calorie deficient diet is non-existent, but I also have another problem is
I often get hunger pangs sometimes with a feeling of weakness during my runs always on my long run, I use gels to get me confidence that I have something in my system, when the run is finished a banana or some fruit I feel ok, have a shower and then a small meal.

I also ways feel on my runs that I have been in a fasted state for hours despite eating a carbohydrate/cereal an hour before training. This could be all psychological or could be
1. not enough fluids
2. I need to increase my calorie intake, I tried this but I put on some body fat. I think it could be a lack of calories, as sometimes after a few days training I run out of energy, want to run but feel I would need to dig deep to finish it.

Went to my GP got bloods done and he said I was in perfect health. It is staring to affect my training

Has anyone else experienced this before or could recommend some good diet books trying to educate myself on the diet side of things.

d4r3n

If you're running 30 - 40 miles per week and not losing weight you're eating too much.

Take your BMR as your maximum calorie intake per day, dont eat crap and you'll lose the weight.

By 'eat crap' I mean cereal bars (most, if not all), crisps, chocolate, jellies, sugary cereals/drinks etc. I find low GI helps in general with weight

AEDIC

Its a tough one...without sounding crass, its really down to you to find out what is right for you.

However, having suffered from the same type of thing myself I can only tell you what worked for me. After reading several books on metabolic rate etc, I decided that the thing that was effecting my weight loss was that my body had a very slow metabolism and that speeding it up was the obvious thing to do.

There are several types of food that help in s[peeding up metabolic rate and there are several things that you can take as supplement, most of which include green tea leaf.

For me - I found supplements that were made up of of green tea extract, caffeine, vit B12 and of all things bitter orange peel.... plus some other small amounts of vit b1 and b5. This seemed to do the trick..... the downside is that your heartrate will increase slightly (nothing anywhere near dangerous levels, just resting HR up slightly) as your body is effectively working harder in the 'furnace'. Body temp may also increase slightly....

Not recommending that you do this or consider this in any way.... just relaying what worked for me. Horses for courses etc...

But I guess the message is that you have to try a few things until you hit the spot so to speak.

jprender

I had similar energy problems whilst I was trying to lose weight and at the same time increase my running distances.

I never counted calories, and just simply ate foods that I considered good for me. Plenty of fruit and veg, lean meats, wholemeal pasta, brown rice, eggs, etc. etc. (You know what is good / bad)

The weight came off -

93.5kgs to 76kgs currently (28%BF to 16%) after 8 months of exercise.

Also, my running endurance and stamina have increased.


However, like yourself, sometimes i felt as if I had zero energy.

My solution was fairly easy though. I simply needed more sleep.


Oh, and if your body is telling you that it is hungry, tell it to stfu and that you will eat after your run. My body comes up with a million excuses why I should stop running, none of them have been good enough yet.

meijin

jprender wrote: »

I had similar energy problems whilst I was trying to lose weight and at the same time increase my running distances.

it may not be too great idea to increase distances and eat less at the same time - you need to be able to recover from your runs, so you need carbs and proteins, especially after the run

I never counted calories, and just simply ate foods that I considered good for me. Plenty of fruit and veg, lean meats, wholemeal pasta, brown rice, eggs, etc. etc. (You know what is good / bad)

that's the main thing

The weight came off -
93.5kgs to 76kgs currently (28%BF to 16%) after 8 months of exercise.

Good progress!

I went from 89kg to 79kg (@181cm) after 10 months with very little exercise (a bit of table tennis as earlier, so no real change there), before I actually started running. After I started running I also started eating a bit more, so the weight drop slowed down, to 76kg (in 5 months) and actually stabilizing just before the DCM. I have no idea about my BF%...

Main changes for me were:
- eliminate sugars (sodas, sugar in tea, coffee, sweets)
- eat regularly every 3 hours from 7am (3 main meals with 2 snacks/smaller meals in between)
- don't eat between those meals
- drink water/green tea between meals (for me about 2-3l/day)
- don't eat just before the sleep

extra things I learned later
- eat just after the exercise, to refuel muscles and improve recovery
- breakfast falls into same category, as you need to refuel after the sleep
- sleep more

Edit: I don't drink alcohol, so there was nothing to change there

tunguska

SWL wrote: »

I presently run approx. 35 -40 miles a week. I have been trying to lose some weight, presently weight 95kg and I am 6’4”. I want to get my weight down to less than 90kg possibility low 80’s. Using calorie calculator I should be consuming approx. 3,500 calories a day for maintenance.

My runs consume approx. 700 – 1000 calories per run according to my Garmin. I eat approx. 2,500 calories per day pretty good diet no junk, takeaways etc. my weight loss despite the calorie deficient diet is non-existent, but I also have another problem is
I often get hunger pangs sometimes with a feeling of weakness during my runs always on my long run, I use gels to get me confidence that I have something in my system, when the run is finished a banana or some fruit I feel ok, have a shower and then a small meal.

I also ways feel on my runs that I have been in a fasted state for hours despite eating a carbohydrate/cereal an hour before training. This could be all psychological or could be
1. not enough fluids
2. I need to increase my calorie intake, I tried this but I put on some body fat. I think it could be a lack of calories, as sometimes after a few days training I run out of energy, want to run but feel I would need to dig deep to finish it.

Went to my GP got bloods done and he said I was in perfect health. It is staring to affect my training

Has anyone else experienced this before or could recommend some good diet books trying to educate myself on the diet side of things.

30 - 40 miles a week isnt a lot, so that amount of running wouldnt have much of an impact on your weight. Run 6 or 7 days a week and see what happens.
Do you drink alcohol? Booze is a big one for making people pudgey. If you do drink knock it on the head for a few months and see what happens to your body.

meijin

tunguska wrote: »

30 - 40 miles a week isnt a lot, so that amount of running wouldnt have much of an impact on your weight. Run 6 or 7 days a week and see what happens.

running is not necessary to lose weight :P see my post above
and anyway his main problem seems to be lack of energy so running even more won't help

tunguska

meijin wrote: »

running is not necessary to lose weight :P see my post above
and anyway his main problem seems to be lack of energy so running even more won't help

The guy is a runner so running is going to enable him to lose weight. But thats not the primary goal, the primary goal of running 7 days a week is to improve running economy and the overall efficiency of your body. The by product of running more is weight loss. Try running 7 days a week and not lose weight, its a hard thing to do. I run 7 days a week and I find it hard to keep my weight from not getting too low. And I wasnt born with a ridiculously high metabolism, running a lot has the effect of promoting weight loss, thats the way it is.
As for more running adversely affecting the posters energy levels, I find the more I run, the more energy I have. When Im in a cycle where Iim running less I feel slugish anf flat, but when Ii up the volume(to a point)I feel a lot bettter. More exercise means more energy(again so long as you dont over train).

SWL

Thanks to you all for your input.

My primary motivation is running and losing weight I believe would have a beneficial effect on my limited performance. I run 6 or 7 days a week, family and work commitments come first but I try to get out even it’s for only 30mins every day. I generally do 60mins every night and a long run on Saturday.

I should have made myself clearer I have energy to run, but often feel like fainting towards the end and can’t wait to get in the door and get stuck into my post meal.

I want to increase my mileage and certainly can’t eat any less, but it’s when I am 5 miles from home and I feel like passing out does concern me. I don’t eat chocolate take away or drink alcohol and I regard my diet as pretty good.
I have never actually passed out but I have had a few very nasty experiences after running and it takes the enjoyment out of the run if you are waiting for it to hit you. I think I need to educate myself on what is happening to my body and how far it can go without passing out:).

PS I am not looking for medical advice

tunguska

SWL wrote: »

Thanks to you all for your input.

My primary motivation is running and losing weight I believe would have a beneficial effect on my limited performance. I run 6 or 7 days a week, family and work commitments come first but I try to get out even it’s for only 30mins every day. I generally do 60mins every night and a long run on Saturday.

I should have made myself clearer I have energy to run, but often feel like fainting towards the end and can’t wait to get in the door and get stuck into my post meal.

I want to increase my mileage and certainly can’t eat any less, but it’s when I am 5 miles from home and I feel like passing out does concern me. I don’t eat chocolate take away or drink alcohol and I regard my diet as pretty good.
I have never actually passed out but I have had a few very nasty experiences after running and it takes the enjoyment out of the run if you are waiting for it to hit you. I think I need to educate myself on what is happening to my body and how far it can go without passing out:).

PS I am not looking for medical advice

Thats sounds strange alright. How many years have you been running?

SWL

tunguska wrote: »

Thats sounds strange alright. How many years have you been running?

Tunguska,

About 4 years always get out every week there were days when I missed training especially in the winter. But I have had a good 15 months of daily running now under my belt; I also did a lot of endurance sport up to my mid-twenties with no problems. Could be all in my head, but I hope not as it will be tougher to fix.

tunguska

SWL wrote: »

Tunguska,

About 4 years always get out every week there were days when I missed training especially in the winter. But I have had a good 15 months of daily running now under my belt; I also did a lot of endurance sport up to my mid-twenties with no problems. Could be all in my head, but I hope not as it will be tougher to fix.

Do you race? If you do, does the same thing happen during races?

SWL

tunguska wrote: »

Do you race? If you do, does the same thing happen during races?

Yes I do race, sometimes it does happen and other days it doesn't, a bit like in training. It is also the main reason why I haven't run a marathon despite training for one.
I don’t mind getting wet, cold and very tired for me its part of the attraction of running – but this “thing” is driving me mad.

tunguska

SWL wrote: »

Yes I do race, sometimes it does happen and other days it doesn't, a bit like in training. It is also the main reason why I haven't run a marathon despite training for one.
I don’t mind getting wet, cold and very tired for me its part of the attraction of running – but this “thing” is driving me mad.

Years ago when I was playing ball I had a similiar thing, I'd feel weak and a bit light headed. Got the bloods done like you but they came back normal. Tried a few things, more iron in the diet, more calories, more protein. Cant tell you which one did the job, but I was grand after that.

3500 cals per day sounds like not very much for a lad whos 6ft 4in. Im 5ft 10in, and I'd take in a lot more than 3500cals/day. Again, I dont have a freakishly high metabolism. So it really does sound like your not taking in enough energy. I know you made the point about body fat, but I find it hard to believe that if you're eating enough it'd result in body fat gains.

SWL

tunguska wrote: »

Years ago when I was playing ball I had a similiar thing, I'd feel weak and a bit light headed. Got the bloods done like you but they came back normal. Tried a few things, more iron in the diet, more calories, more protein. Cant tell you which one did the job, but I was grand after that.

3500 cals per day sounds like not very much for a lad whos 6ft 4in. Im 5ft 10in, and I'd take in a lot more than 3500cals/day. Again, I dont have a freakishly high metabolism. So it really does sound like your not taking in enough energy. I know you made the point about body fat, but I find it hard to believe that if you're eating enough it'd result in body fat gains.

I think you may be on to something I increased my iron intake rich foods and did make a difference, could be a lack of protein also. I really only consume approx. 2,500 so maybe I just need to eat more. I think I might increase my calories for a month and see what happens and hopefully that will help. Thanks for the feedback it’s good to talk:D

meijin

SWL wrote: »

I think you may be on to something I increased my iron intake rich foods and did make a difference, could be a lack of protein also. I really only consume approx. 2,500 so maybe I just need to eat more. I think I might increase my calories for a month and see what happens and hopefully that will help. Thanks for the feedback it’s good to talk:D

some wild guess - are you running too fast and run out of fuel? what if you slow down a bit?
and, did you get blood sugar tested as well?

TFBubendorfer

I might be worth getting some blood tests done - iron levels could be low, but that's just a guess.

And no, this is not medical advice.

RayCun

OP said in his first post that he'd already had blood work done and got a clean bill of health from his GP.

Might be worth posting up more details about what this healthy diet is.

menoscemo

meijin wrote: »

some wild guess - are you running too fast and run out of fuel? what if you slow down a bit?

OP is running 6-7 days a week and totalling 35-40 miles a week, That's about 5 or 6 miles a day. You won't run out of fuel on 5-6 mile runs no matter how fast you run them.

The fact that he is not losing weight means that he has not got a calorie deficit, so eating more calories and doing the same excercise can only possibly serve to putting on weight. It could be that he needs more of a specific type of food though (i.e. more protein/Iron and a few less carbs..)

OP, the dizzy spells and feeling faint are not normal at all. I would definitely see a doctor and explain what is going on. Better to see a doctor who specialises in Sports rather than a run of the mill GP.

meijin

menoscemo wrote: »

OP is running 6-7 days a week and totalling 35-40 miles a week, That's about 5 or 6 miles a day. You won't run out of fuel on 5-6 mile runs no matter how fast you run them.

hmm.. yeah, I guess you're right

The fact that he is not losing weight means that he has not got a calorie deficit, so eating more calories and doing the same excercise can only possibly serve to putting on weight. It could be that he needs more of a specific type of food though (i.e. more protein/Iron and a few less carbs..)

on one hand, he runs out of energy during the run, on another, he's not loosing weight either, so either a problem with his diet, or some other mystery

OP, the dizzy spells and feeling faint are not normal at all. I would definitely see a doctor and explain what is going on. Better to see a doctor who specialises in Sports rather than a run of the mill GP.

+1

menoscemo

meijin wrote: »

on one hand, he runs out of energy during the run, on another, he's not loosing weight either, so either a problem with his diet, or some other mystery

Given that he is not losing weight. I doubt he is actually running out of energy, rather he is suffering from something else which makes him feel as if he is running out of energy.

jprender

I don't know how accurate runkeeper is with regards to calories burned during my runs, but when I weighed 90kgs, I was generally burning 100 calories for every km that I ran.

If the OP is running 40miles per week, that means about 6500 cals burned from running.
If he consumes 2500 cals per day, that is 17500 per week, which results in a net calorie intake of 11000 per week.

The weight should be falling off him with those sorts of numbers. I would suspect that 2500 cals intake per day can not accurate.

I'm no nutritionist, but to me, the numbers just don't make sense.

SWL

jprender wrote: »

I don't know how accurate runkeeper is with regards to calories burned during my runs, but when I weighed 90kgs, I was generally burning 100 calories for every km that I ran.

If the OP is running 40miles per week, that means about 6500 cals burned from running.
If he consumes 2500 cals per day, that is 17500 per week, which results in a net calorie intake of 11000 per week.

The weight should be falling off him with those sorts of numbers. I would suspect that 2500 cals intake per day can not accurate.

I'm no nutritionist, but to me, the numbers just don't make sense.

Thanks again everybody for your replies – You could be correct maybe I have incorrectly calculated my calories intake, but honestly my portions are small. I initially thought I was diabetic having very similar symptoms.

Today my meals were
Breakfast porridge
Snack scone
Lunch Wholemeal bread with cheese, turkey, tomato, and tunamix
Snack Fruit
Dinner two eggs and a medium bowl of couscous with roasted vegetables
Post run fruit and some creamed rice.

As no one else has had similar problems it may be all in my head, I will run it by Mrs.SWL when she is home next week and ask her to look further until then onwards and upwards.

YFlyer

How does the Garmin work out how many calories you use up?

YFlyer

AEDIC wrote: »

I


There are several types of food that help in s[peeding up metabolic rate and there are several things that you can take as supplement, most of which include green tea leaf.

For me - I found supplements that were made up of of green tea extract, caffeine, vit B12 and of all things bitter orange peel.... plus some other small amounts of vit b1 and b5. This seemed to do the trick..... the downside is that your heartrate will increase slightly (nothing anywhere near dangerous levels, just resting HR up slightly) as your body is effectively working harder in the 'furnace'. Body temp may also increase slightly....

Eating some fresh ginger before meals or adding to meal will aid digestion as well.

RayCun

SWL wrote: »

Today my meals were [/COLOR]
Breakfast porridge
Snack scone
Lunch Wholemeal bread with cheese, turkey, tomato, and tunamix
Snack Fruit
Dinner two eggs and a medium bowl of couscous with roasted vegetables
Post run fruit and some creamed rice.

Do you measure portion sizes?