Owning a business and problems with the welfare

Yrag2E

There are 3 directors in my company. Each from different areas. We applied for BTWA but got refused. 3 different inspectors came to visit the 3 of us.
Having showed the business is going well and potential in the next year to sustain 3 wages. Showed accounts for years 1 & 2. Projections etc etc.

Asked various questions, completely transparent about everything in the past 2 years. Told I was a lier when I said I had no wages and no welfare for 6 months. Which is absolutely true

The outcome from the visit was this -
Director 1 - Told to go get a job and was giving JA 83.00/week. Sign on every month.
Director 2 - On Par-time slips.
Director 3 - Gets 8.00 a week on JA and has to sign on every month.

Despite having indentical circumstances.

We aren't a huge business but potential is there for it and we are working very hard to get there. Our wages are about 800 month and that is also depended on how well the month has gone. If it snows, we won't get any wages.

Are we entitled to anything. Is JA going to bite us back for being directors(even though its on file). Can we get BTWA at this late stage?

cee_jay

You won't qualify for Back to Work. For Back to Work you need to be setting up a self-employment business which has been approved, in writing, in advance by a Partnership Company or a Departmental Facilitator.
The guidelines are here: http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/btw_eall.aspx#part1
As it is an existing business, you cannot qualify for BTW.

Yrag2E

ok that is fair enough.

What about the inconsistencies in any welfare allowance we have received?

cee_jay

I don't know why Director 2 is on part-time slips. If claiming Jobseeker's Allowance, you need to sign every month normally. The other conditions would be available for and looking for full time work.
As for having different means, everyone's circumstances are different. If there is a partner/spouse earning in the household, parental income if someone is under 25, etc. There could be different rates of payment if someone has a partner/child, or is under a certain age as well.
Means from self-employment is assessed on a euro for euro basis as far as I know. If your wages are 800 a month, that would give means of €184.62 a week, which would mean a weekly payment of just over €3 for a single person.
Have you compared means assessments to see why there are different figures? You should have been sent a copy of how the means were calculated with your claim was decided.

Yrag2E

We are def all on the exact same level with regards spouse, income, age etc.

The welfare office is the inconsistent one here. So I cleared up a lot of things with an inspector over the last week. I now get 2 euro/week even though I am getting paid 50.00/week. 2/3 day week.

I was TOLD to go find a job or my welfare will be cut (all 2 euro of it). I have a job. It's slowed down in coming into christmas and can't sustain 3 wages. The business is there, we just don't have the capacity to fund an expansion and nobody is willing to help.

The option according to the social welfare is to give up, go back on the full welfare and look for a job or go back to college.

really?

mrsbyrne

Yrag2E wrote: »

We are def all on the exact same level with regards spouse, income, age etc.

The welfare office is the inconsistent one here. So I cleared up a lot of things with an inspector over the last week. I now get 2 euro/week even though I am getting paid 50.00/week. 2/3 day week.

I was TOLD to go find a job or my welfare will be cut (all 2 euro of it). I have a job. It's slowed down in coming into christmas and can't sustain 3 wages. The business is there, we just don't have the capacity to fund an expansion and nobody is willing to help.

The option according to the social welfare is to give up, go back on the full welfare and look for a job or go back to college.

really?

I find it astonishing and unbelievable, frankly that all three of you directors have exactly the same amount of children, exactly the same amount of savings/investments, wives/husbands with identical income/savings/investments. thats amazing. You cannot have Jobsekers allowance unless you are looking for a job. if you are running a business then you are not looking for a job. Thats just the way it goes.

Yrag2E

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I find it astonishing and unbelievable, frankly that all three of you directors have exactly the same amount of children, exactly the same amount of savings/investments, wives/husbands with identical income/savings/investments. thats amazing. You cannot have Jobsekers allowance unless you are looking for a job. if you are running a business then you are not looking for a job. Thats just the way it goes.

You find it astonishing, based on what exactly? You must work for the social welfare because that is the attitude you come to expect from them. Assumptions and generalizations.

We don't have children. We don't own houses. We don't have wives/husbands. We are identical in age. We have the exact same circumstances. Same income, same savings (which is nothing because we put it into the business). What is hard to believe about that? You think director and assume we are above a certain age.

We hit a slow down and asked the welfare for help. We don't get paid any more but the business is still there and will pick up come Jan. I don't want to be put on JSA, I want to develop this. It is the welfare that put us on JSA.

Balagan

With regard to the issue of the different assistance offered to the three of you, you can appeal any decision of the Department in respect of yourself which you think is incorrect. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/reference/checklists/checklist_when_appealing_a_social_welfare_decision.html

In your first post, you mentioned that you were called a liar when giving truthful information. You should follow up on this using the Comments and Complaints Procedure of the Dept of Social Protection http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW104/Pages/CommentsorComplaints.aspx

Yrag2E

Balagan wrote: »

With regard to the issue of the different assistance offered to the three of you, you can appeal any decision of the Department in respect of yourself which you think is incorrect. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/reference/checklists/checklist_when_appealing_a_social_welfare_decision.html

In your first post, you mentioned that you were called a liar when giving truthful information. You should follow up on this using the Comments and Complaints Procedure of the Dept of Social Protection http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW104/Pages/CommentsorComplaints.aspx

Excellent. First actually bit of useful info, cheers Balagan.

Yrag2E

Is any one able to clear this up for me then.

I've stopped taking a wage and I will have to find a job. I still have obligations to the business (loan and rent guarantees), so I have no choice but to keep that going.

Am I entitled to full JSA in the interim?

wellieboot

Self-employment

If you are self-employed, you may be entitled to Jobseeker's Allowance, depending on your income from your business. Find out more about self-employment and unemployment.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/self_employed_and_unemployment.html

LovelyHurling

But these people are not self employed.

I take 'directors' to mean they are PAYE earners who have established their own limited company.

In such a situation, unfortunately there seems to be no provision to assist you bar JSA/ JSB, and you should resign your posts as directors (you will still be interim directors of your company in the eyes of the state, but this should not affect your social welfare application.)

moonshiner

OK I have applied for some work in the entertainment industry but am told i would have to sort out my own tax, the work would be neither secure or regular , possibly 1 day a week. Am i classed as a casual worker or would i have to be classed as self employed in which case i could not take the job as i would not be able to feed the kids if i lost my dole?

Yrag2E

LovelyHurling wrote: »

But these people are not self employed.

I take 'directors' to mean they are PAYE earners who have established their own limited company.

In such a situation, unfortunately there seems to be no provision to assist you bar JSA/ JSB, and you should resign your posts as directors (you will still be interim directors of your company in the eyes of the state, but this should not affect your social welfare application.)

yeah, that is it exactly. Thank you.
I've another inspector meeting organized so I will have another stab at it and let you know the outcome in case any one here is in the same situation.

LovelyHurling

moonshiner wrote: »

OK I have applied for some work in the entertainment industry but am told i would have to sort out my own tax, the work would be neither secure or regular , possibly 1 day a week. Am i classed as a casual worker or would i have to be classed as self employed in which case i could not take the job as i would not be able to feed the kids if i lost my dole?

You would be classed as self employed.

You might want to make an application for the Back To Work Enterprise Scheme, depending on the type of self employment you will be undertaking. That way you could both earn your income from self employment and maintain your current weekly rate.

But the entertainment industry covers a lot of possibilities. Managing bands for regular gigs (for example) might be one thing, but I'm not sure the SWO would consider someone doing the odd gig themselves (for example) to be eligible for the scheme.