can I shoot deer with .223

foxboy

just found this but I thought .243 was the smallest that could be used for deer and dont know if .223 would have a muzzel energy of more than 1700 ft pounds or if a bullet greater than 55 grain can be got for .223 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1977/en/si/0239.html

kildare.17hmr

not in this country, think you could only manage that power out of 223 with hand loads. 22-250 min with 60gr

stick shooter

quiet simply no ,with a .223;)

foxboy

stick shooter wrote: »

quiet simply no ,with a .223;)

thats why .243 is smallest caliber then
thanks

kildare.17hmr

foxboy wrote: »

thats why .243 is smallest caliber then
thanks

22-250!

stick shooter

foxboy wrote: »

thats why .243 is smallest caliber then
thanks

Not quiet the 22-250 is still deer legal which is a tad smaller than .243

Spunk84

Yes you can but you have to have a certain high grain, there was a thread awhile ago about it with pics and info. Forgot the grain but the barrel and the ammo isn't available here i think. The main reason is that they won't be granted it in the 223 calibre, if you had the ammo and the gun to shoot it you may fight it with the powers to be but who knows.

rowa

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

not in this country, think you could only manage that power out of 223 with hand loads. 22-250 min with 60gr

You'd want to be stuffing a .223 case with semtex to get a bullet out of it over 1700ft/lbs , even a 22/250 just scrapes past. These rounds weren't designed for deer but vermin, and anyway the .243 has been around here long enough for good cheap secondhand rifles to be around.

stick shooter

Why bother when the 22-250 fires the same diameter head as the .223 just faster and more accurate in my opinion .:D

kildare.17hmr

rowa wrote: »

You'd want to be stuffing a .223 case with semtex to get a bullet out of it over 1700ft/lbs , even a 22/250 just scrapes past. These rounds weren't designed for deer but vermin, and anyway the .243 has been around here long enough for good cheap secondhand rifles to be around.

was it not said in the thread spunk is on about that you could squeeze 1700ft/lb out of 223 with hand loads?

Longranger

Just buy a .308 and save a nice few quid on ammo! .22-250 is well under powered for deer IMO. If you want a dedicated deer rifle, get one that will do the job in one shot,even if you're ourt by couple of inches it'll make feck all difference with a .308. .22-250 is a different story. Just my 2c. By the way, .308 is much cheaper to feed than a .22-250,.243 and pretty much all else;)

foxboy

I thought about getting into deer stalking but havent got the gun or licence yet
have .22 for bunnys and .223 for fox, if I decide to stalk deer I will trade
the .223 for something bigger maybe .243 or .270
would love to tag along with some of you to see if I would like it or not, would be alot of travel involved for me as I live in south wexford

garv123

223 up to 243 wouldnt be a bad jump. Still have the .243 for foxes then. if you kept the .223 id jump to .270 or .308.

Ask around and im sure a few lads in your area would take you out.
Ive been out deer stalking myself a load of times but dont have a deer rifle but i just love the stalk. great getting out at dawn strolling around the countryside. even if you dont get a deer its great going out for the stroll.

Thinking about it now actually ive only ever fired one of the lads .243's 3 times and it was always at paper when checking zero and ive been out countless times on a regular basis.

Il put money with you that you'll love it:D

stick shooter

If you are looking for a dedicated stalking calibre then you should look into the .270 the best stalking calibre in my opinion for any irish game .;)

foxboy

stick shooter wrote: »

If you are looking for a dedicated stalking calibre then you should look into the .270 the best stalking calibre in my opinion for any irish game .;)

maybe for next season, think it's too late to get everything sorted for this year plus it takes months to get a licence down here

stick shooter

foxboy wrote: »

maybe for next season, think it's too late to get everything sorted for this year plus it takes months to get a licence down here

Not so sure, there is parts of wexford that have a 14 day turn around on licences ,And as for stalking they are pretty efficient .

Deer Hunter DL

there was a big thread on Irish shooter .com on this mate , a lad got all the info about it

foxboy

stick shooter wrote: »

Not so sure, there is parts of wexford that have a 14 day turn around on licences ,And as for stalking they are pretty efficient .

took 7months for .22 and 4 for .223 the local station here is very slow

stick shooter

Pm sent

kildare.17hmr

DHDL

there was a big thread on Irish shooter .com on this mate , a lad got all the info about it

this is the link

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_centerfire_22_biggame/

stick shooter

I think he will find enough straight forward information on boards .;)

Cass

I have removed all argumentative posts.

Both sites can be used by any and all so why the need to constantly bicker and fight about which is best, which to use, etc is beyond me.

There will be no more mention of this on thread or this forum. Its a shooting/hunting forum not a review forum for internet sites.

Any posts that mention this again will be deleted and the user infracted/banned. Anyone with a problem can PM me. Any user that wishes to ignore this warning and continue the discussion or debate this decision on thread will also have their post removed and face infraction/ban.

323

stick shooter wrote: »

If you are looking for a dedicated stalking calibre then you should look into the .270 the best stalking calibre in my opinion for any irish game .;)

+1

And for any just about any medium to large game anywhere on the planet.

4200fps

stick shooter wrote: »

Not quiet the 22-250 is still deer legal which is a tad smaller than .243

The .220 swift has same output in footpounds as the 22-250 on a 60 grain but its not legal in this country.Up the north it is i hear. Shoot a deer in right spot and his computer will shut down . 223 does a 75 grain but dont know what the power is

garv123

4200fps wrote: »

The .220 swift has same output in footpounds as the 22-250 on a 60 grain but its not legal in this country.Up the north it is i hear. Shoot a deer in right spot and his computer will shut down . 223 does a 75 grain but dont know what the power is

People in this country claim to have a deer licence with a swift.

kildare.17hmr

garv123 wrote: »

People in this country claim to have a deer licence with a swift.

It was posted here or elswhere by a regular that they know of one or 2 who have them. sure if the figures can be proven i cant see a bother getting the licence

It wasn't me!

Swift is just as likely to make the energy figures as a .22-250, which is to say, dubious...

I reckon if every lad shooting a centrefire .22 for deer in this country was forced to fire their factory ammo over a chrono, there'd be a lot of uncomfortable foot shuffling and squeaky bums.

In fact, I'd put a fiver on the vast, vast majority of them not making legal energy.

4200fps

foxboy wrote: »

just found this but I thought .243 was the smallest that could be used for deer and dont know if .223 would have a muzzel energy of more than 1700 ft pounds or if a bullet greater than 55 grain can be got for .223 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1977/en/si/0239.html

thats good information on your link.well spotted.

rowa

I don't understand people wanting to shoot deer with the .22 centrefires these days after a lot of people put in years of hardwork lobbying the dept of justice, tds, ministers, gardai etc. for rifles of heavier calibre to be released ,until maire geoghan quinn relented and allowed rifles up to .270. The likes of the .243 , .270 etc were specifically designed to take deer comfortably and humainly so why not use them ?

4200fps

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

It was posted here or elswhere by a regular that they know of one or 2 who have them. sure if the figures can be proven i cant see a bother getting the licence

The woman who's over the firearms section for the deer licence told me that if the bullet puts out 1700 ft-lbs or greater which is the legal requirements and if you can prove it she would pass it on the firearms end of it.. http://www.hornady.com/store/220-Swift-60-gr-HP/ and
http://www.hornady.com/store/22-250-Rem-60-gr-SP/ they both exceed on a 60 grain bullet. She also said the 55 grain wont exceed even though its on the application as a minimum grain.

4200fps

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

It was posted here or elswhere by a regular that they know of one or 2 who have them. sure if the figures can be proven i cant see a bother getting the licence

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

DHDL

this is the link

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_centerfire_22_biggame/

That was a good read.. its all about where you shoot them too, i can imagine alot of deer is shot incorrectly as i hear it on the radio deer found limping, wounded and so on. Why would any1 shoot them in the leg is another thing, maybe some people think the round is that powerful if i shoot him in the leg or rear he will die? Happened in Kerry the other week i believe. Coillte is probably right to make people do the shooting coarse on deer before you get the licence in my opinion,some people mightn't agree but anyways.

garv123

Its more to do with them been moving or running when people fire than influentially shooting them in the leg or ass. Or them not having a steady rest and taking a pot shot.

stick shooter

4200fps wrote: »

The .220 swift has same output in footpounds as the 22-250 on a 60 grain but its not legal in this country.Up the north it is i hear. Shoot a deer in right spot and his computer will shut down . 223 does a 75 grain but dont know what the power is

Simply why, would anyone even want to be looking for the minimum deer legal calibre for deer stalking

Deer stalking is about more than just knocking a deer, its about taking ethical shooting .

foxboy

4200fps wrote: »

That was a good read.. its all about where you shoot them too, i can imagine alot of deer is shot incorrectly as i hear it on the radio deer found limping, wounded and so on. Why would any1 shoot them in the leg is another thing, maybe some people think the round is that powerful if i shoot him in the leg or rear he will die? Happened in Kerry the other week i believe. Coillte is probably right to make people do the shooting coarse on deer before you get the licence in my opinion,some people mightn't agree but anyways.

I wonder how often do hunters check their zero, is this why there are wounded deer been seen

I put at least 3 shots into paper before I go

4200fps

stick shooter wrote: »

Simply why, would anyone even want to be looking for the minimum deer legal calibre for deer stalking

Deer stalking is about more than just knocking a deer, its about taking ethical shooting .

I see where your coming from. Some lads and like myself wouldn't have a big deer caliber and would hold on to our rifles if it was legal to shoot deer with them, If i shot a deer in the lung behind its front leg with any round that puts out 1700 ft-lbs or so he's going to go down without a shadow of a doubt. If he was to run/move away before I fire id keep the bullet for another time

foxboy wrote: »

I wonder how often do hunters check their zero, is this why there are wounded deer been seen

I put at least 3 shots into paper before I go

Totally agree, maybe some are to tight to waste a round checking lol you would wonder

garv123

4200fps wrote: »

I see where your coming from. Some lads and like myself wouldn't have a big deer caliber and would hold on to our rifles if it was legal to shoot deer with them, If i shot a deer in the lung behind its front leg with any round that puts out 1700 ft-lbs or so he's going to go down without a shadow of a doubt. If he was to run/move away before I fire id keep the bullet for another time

Deer can run when shot in the lungs with a .270 or .308. And if its near a wood they'll make it into it and you'll need a dog to track them. So a smaller cal gun can men they'll run alot further.

4200fps

I agree with you there, heard that too that they are known to run with puncher'd lungs but they dont survive too long..

323

As others here have already said
"Why in Gods name would you want to use the minimum legal required caliber ?"

Personally have no faith in the killing effect of these magical foot/pounds figures often mentioned.

Yes, they can and do sometimes run with a perfect lung shot, but they will cover a hell of a lot less distance with a bigger hole in them

4200fps

garv123 wrote: »

Deer can run when shot in the lungs with a .270 or .308. And if its near a wood they'll make it into it and you'll need a dog to track them. So a smaller cal gun can men they'll run alot further.

323 wrote: »

As others here have already said
"Why in Gods name would you want to use the minimum legal required caliber ?"

Personally have no faith in the killing effect of these magical foot/pounds figures often mentioned.

Yes, they can and do sometimes run with a perfect lung shot, but they will cover a hell of a lot less distance with a bigger hole in them

You have a point there.Makes good sense of coarse just I would like to hold on to my rifle IF they issued the licence for it as i like it for fox shooting too.Id like to have a 308 for example but it be too severe on the foxs.I dont know i'll see how i get on.If they decline the caliber i will have to go for a 243 maybe so it be in-between.I myself wouldn't be able to afford to have rifles

stick shooter

If you end up needing one rifle as a multi role for foxes and stalking ,Then the .243 fits the bill perfect in my opinion . More than capable for any game in ireland and wont break the bank .

rowa

4200fps wrote: »

You have a point there.Makes good sense of coarse just I would like to hold on to my rifle IF they issued the licence for it as i like it for fox shooting too.Id like to have a 308 for example but it be too severe on the foxs.I dont know i'll see how i get on.If they decline the caliber i will have to go for a 243 maybe so it be in-between.I myself wouldn't be able to afford to have rifles

The .243 is good no doubt but the hunting ammo can be expensive for them the same as the other calibres , but with the .308 you can buy surplus military ammo for use in practice and for foxes , its fmj but it will knock them no problem. Not for deer though.

garv123

FMJ rounds shoultn't be used for hunting. not even for foxes.
one of the lads on here shot a rabbit with a .223 fmj and he crawled to the ditch. How often does a rabbit run from a .223?
they will just pass straight threw and inflict little damage.

4200fps

There only for shooting paper targets and military use them for shooting the enemy as its purpose is to injure the enemy as it takes 2 to bring him of the field which is the benefit i believe. They are the cheapest round you can buy for your rifle as far as i know

garv123

exactly they pass straight threw, dont expand and cause little damage. grand for paper but not for any animal.

kildare.17hmr

garv123 wrote: »

FMJ rounds shoultn't be used for hunting. not even for foxes. <br />
one of the lads on here shot a rabbit with a .223 fmj and he crawled to the ditch. How often does a rabbit run from a .223?<br />
they will just pass straight threw and inflict little damage.

completely agree. I was buying ammo and mounts for the 223 in a gun shop in dublin, was lookin for hollow points which he didnt have so he tried to sell me american eagle fmj's, when i said what garv has just said his response was sure its only a fox! I polity told him not to expect any more business from me if that was his attitude

meathstevie

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

completely agree. I was buying ammo and mounts for the 223 in a gun shop in dublin, was lookin for hollow points which he didnt have so he tried to sell me american eagle fmj's, when i said what garv has just said his response was sure its only a fox! I polity told him not to expect any more business from me if that was his attitude

Just have a look what .308 in fmj does to a lump of gel. I seriously doubt any fox or deer is going to run any distance after that. Having said that it's far from the optimal tool if you can use controlled expansion ammo that'll draw a a wound at least three times as wide and transfer it's energy quicker resulting in a far greater shock.

kildare.17hmr

meathstevie wrote: »

Just have a look what .308 in fmj does to a lump of gel. I seriously doubt any fox or deer is going to run any distance after that. Having said that it's far from the optimal tool if you can use controlled expansion ammo that'll draw a a wound at least three times as wide and transfer it's energy quicker resulting in a far greater shock.

disagree lad,
deer and even foxes sometimes run a fair distance after being hit wit hunting ammo designed for the job. An fmj will pass straight through a fox and prob most deer from a deer caliber and do very little damage compared to a hollow point or ballistic tip. Fmj's are for paper and should not be used for hunting ever

323

meathstevie wrote: »

Just have a look what .308 in fmj does to a lump of gel. I seriously doubt any fox or deer is going to run any distance after that. Having said that it's far from the optimal tool if you can use controlled expansion ammo that'll draw a a wound at least three times as wide and transfer it's energy quicker resulting in a far greater shock.

Agree

A hole 1/3 inch diameter through a fox described as very little damage ? Does not compute with me, particularly when the bullet hits bone.

OK, have only ever hit 1 fox with a fully jacketed/solid bullet, (found a few box's of 270 Sako round nose solids a few years ago, think 150 grains). Defiantly ended his days abruptly and would not have describe it as going straight through with little damage.

stick shooter

323 wrote: »

Agree

A hole 1/3 inch diameter through a fox described as very little damage ? Does not compute with me, particularly when the bullet hits bone.

OK, have only ever hit 1 fox with a fully jacketed/solid bullet, (found a few box's of 270 Sako round nose solids a few years ago, think 150 grains). Defiantly ended his days abruptly and would not have describe it as going straight through with little damage.

But why ? A fmj has it usage ie. paper punching or target practice ,but not in the field for varmint shooting or stalking for many reasons . Does a fox or rabbit deserve a less humane dispatch than a deer because we all know to never use a fmj on them . In my opinion

juice1304

323 wrote: »

Agree

(found a few box's of 270 Sako round nose solids

a round nose bullet will dump more energy on impact than a spitzer bullet. it's like hitting something with a hammer or a knife in my opinion.

stick shooter

juice1304 wrote: »

a round nose bullet will dump more energy on impact than a spitzer bullet. it's like hitting something with a hammer or a knife in my opinion.

Not quiet true when it comes to dumping energy . One thing you have to consider is the construction of the bullet and how it fragments and how it fragments and dumps energy on impact . How far it takes on penetration to release it energy . Old school of tought was sectional densith and weight retention rather than with modern ballistic tests ,explosive value of the round on entry of wound cavity . in my opinion