Now It's Personal - Ian O'Doherty

W123-80's

irishconvert wrote: »

Of course it's scare mongering. Look, I would say that every Muslim would love it if this country was Islamic and all Irish people converted. In the same way when you see a movie you think is great, or listen to a new CD by your favourite band, you want all your friends to see/listen to it and like it. But this crap about Muslims wanting to take over Europe is just a complete joke, and how people can believe this is true is beyond me.

The highlighted piece is what gets me every time.

Why would every Muslim love if Ireland was Islamic and all Irish people converted?

I just don't get it.

I don't want or expect my friends to like and watch all the same movies/music that I do.
It would make for one hell of a bland existance if we all believed the same stuff, liked the same stuff, listened to the same stuff, watched the same stuff, etc etc..

irishh_bob

irishconvert wrote: »

I don't want anything against the will of the Irish people. However I would like if Irish people freely converted to Islam. It's just an aspiration, one that most likely will never be realised!

i sincerley hope not

Standman

W123-80's wrote: »

The highlighted piece is what gets me every time.

Why would every Muslim love if Ireland was Islamic and all Irish people converted?

I just don't get it.

I don't want or expect my friends to like and watch all the same movies/music that I do.
It would make for one hell of a bland existance if we all believed the same stuff, liked the same stuff, listened to the same stuff, watched the same stuff, etc etc..

I prefer to always try and assume the best in peoples intentions so in this case I think it's because if a Muslim truly believes that their religion is the most pleasing to a god that will eventually decide whether or not they are tortured for eternity, then it's only natural they would want their fellow man or woman to follow Islam. It's not the same as saying they want everyone having the same personalities and likes and dislikes, it's merely a person who wants what is in their opinion the best for other people. It's not so hard to understand.

irishh_bob

Standman wrote: »

I prefer to always try and assume the best in peoples intentions so in this case I think it's because if a Muslim truly believes that their religion is the most pleasing to a god that will eventually decide whether or not they are tortured for eternity, then it's only natural they would want their fellow man or woman to follow Islam. It's not the same as saying they want everyone having the same personalities and likes and dislikes, it's merely a person who wants what is in their opinion the best for other people. It's not so hard to understand.

that doesnt make muslim any different than russians circa 1930 - 1950 , i imagine a good few russians wanted thier fellow russians to love stalin for fear he might torture them

Hobbes

Or in the way that people who played skyrim want others to play it. Of course I wouldn't equate skyrim to islam in the same way I wouldn't equate Stalin/torture from your comment.

dead one

Originally Posted by irishconvert
Of course it's scare mongering. Look, I would say that every Muslim would love it if this country was Islamic and all Irish people converted. In the same way when you see a movie you think is great, or listen to a new CD by your favourite band, you want all your friends to see/listen to it and like it. But this crap about Muslims wanting to take over Europe is just a complete joke, and how people can believe this is true is beyond me.

Myth: Muslims want to take over the world and eliminate all non-Muslims.

Truth: Muslims already took over most of the known world and ruled it for more than one thousand years. So what happened to all those non-Muslims who lived under Islam? They lived in peace and prospered. Please see the link on this matter for more detail.


http://www.shiaorsunni.com/myths.html

W123-80's

Standman wrote: »

I prefer to always try and assume the best in peoples intentions so in this case I think it's because if a Muslim truly believes that their religion is the most pleasing to a god that will eventually decide whether or not they are tortured for eternity, then it's only natural they would want their fellow man or woman to follow Islam. It's not the same as saying they want everyone having the same personalities and likes and dislikes, it's merely a person who wants what is in their opinion the best for other people. It's not so hard to understand.

Fair enough.

I am happy having no religion. I find its best for me. I have no desire however, for the whole of Ireland to suddenly decide to forget their religion and follow my path.

I am happy for Catholics to practice their religion. I am happy Muslims to practice theirs. I am happy for any religion to practice their faith.

I guess I don't understand a mindset that would like all others to conform to a certain view of what is best for them.

whydoc

Rustum asked Rab'i bin 'Amir (may Allah be pleased with him)what had brought the Arabs to Persia?

With his indomitable courage and conviction which owed it's origin to the divine Scripture and the Prophet's message he curtly said:

"Allah (the Almighty) has sent us so that we may liberate fellow human beings from subservience to fellow human beings and bring them to obedience to the One True God. We are here to take them from the narrowness of the world to its spaciousness. Our aim is to free them of the persecution perpetrated against them by other religions. We want to bless them with the justice and equity of Islam."

swordofislam

oceanclub wrote: »

And considering he makes a living at being offensive, his over-the-top reaction to a jibe about drinking - and his own constant references to it - were interesting.

He should talk to someone about the fact that he can't not drink for a week!

Standman

W123-80's wrote: »

Fair enough.

I am happy having no religion. I find its best for me. I have no desire however, for the whole of Ireland to suddenly decide to forget their religion and follow my path.

I am happy for Catholics to practice their religion. I am happy Muslims to practice theirs. I am happy for any religion to practice their faith.

I guess I don't understand a mindset that would like all others to conform to a certain view of what is best for them.

Well having no religion is not a belief system, most importantly not one that says others of differing beliefs are displeasing a god who can condemn them to an eternity in hell or allow them everlasting life with their loved ones in heaven. If you honestly believed that, then I think it would be completely human to want others to believe and I think that would be a characteristic of a good and empathetic person. Notice I'm in no way saying it gives them the right to compel or force others to believe, but merely to want them to.

irishh_bob

swordofislam wrote: »

He should talk to someone about the fact that he can't not drink for a week!

why ? , no health professional would say that drinking once per week constitutes a drink problem , most people drink at least once per week

irishh_bob

Standman wrote: »

Well having no religion is not a belief system, most importantly not one that says others of differing beliefs are displeasing a god who can condemn them to an eternity in hell or allow them everlasting life with their loved ones in heaven. If you honestly believed that, then I think it would be completely human to want others to believe and I think that would be a characteristic of a good and empathetic person. Notice I'm in no way saying it gives them the right to compel or force others to believe, but merely to want them to.

i wouldnt want anything to do with any god who was willing to torture ( anyone ) for eternity , especially for something as inoffensive as not believing in him him - her - it , i see nothing admirable about worshiping a narcisistic psychopath

swordofislam

irishh_bob wrote: »

swordofislam wrote: »

He should talk to someone about the fact that he can't not drink for a week!

why ? , no health professional would say that drinking once per week constitutes a drink problem , most people drink at least once per week

By choice and he only ladted three days

irishconvert

Just spotted an article he wrote on 25th November about doing the programme...BTW, read the last line, was it someone on boards who made that comment?!!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/ian-odoherty-so-have-i-changed-my-mind-after-spending-a-week-with-muslims-2945754.html

irishconvert

W123-80's wrote: »

Fair enough.

I am happy having no religion. I find its best for me. I have no desire however, for the whole of Ireland to suddenly decide to forget their religion and follow my path.

I am happy for Catholics to practice their religion. I am happy Muslims to practice theirs. I am happy for any religion to practice their faith.

I guess I don't understand a mindset that would like all others to conform to a certain view of what is best for them.

I am also happy for Catholics to practise theirs.

W123-80's

Standman wrote: »

Well having no religion is not a belief system, most importantly not one that says others of differing beliefs are displeasing a god who can condemn them to an eternity in hell or allow them everlasting life with their loved ones in heaven. If you honestly believed that, then I think it would be completely human to want others to believe and I think that would be a characteristic of a good and empathetic person. Notice I'm in no way saying it gives them the right to compel or force others to believe, but merely to want them to.

Ok, I think I get your point.

It is similiar to a Protestant wishing that everyone converted to become a protestant. Because, obviously they believe their God is the best, so therefore as good and compassionate Human Beings they want everyone to believe the same so as to avoid eternal damnation or whatever punishment is applicable.

Repeat and rince for most other religions.

I'm not tryng to be flippant, but that is the gist of the point right?

irishh_bob

swordofislam wrote: »

By choice and he only ladted three days

that still doesnt constitute a drink problem , i usually have a can of lager at home every other night , i dont have a drink problem , im the right side of thirty five and could count on one hand the number of times ive been drunk in my entire life and all those instances were when i was under twenty five

irishh_bob

W123-80's wrote: »

Ok, I think I get your point.

It is similiar to a Protestant wishing that everyone converted to become a protestant. Because, obviously they believe their God is the best, so therefore as good and compassionate Human Beings they want everyone to believe the same so as to avoid eternal damnation or whatever punishment is applicable.

Repeat and rince for most other religions.

I'm not tryng to be flippant, but that is the gist of the point right?

i see nothing compassionate about wanting people to worship someone - thing because if they dont , they will be savagley tortured , i call that weak and whipped

Standman

W123-80's wrote: »

Ok, I think I get your point.

It is similiar to a Protestant wishing that everyone converted to become a protestant. Because, obviously they believe their God is the best, so therefore as good and compassionate Human Beings they want everyone to believe the same so as to avoid eternal damnation or whatever punishment is applicable.

Repeat and rince for most other religions.

I'm not tryng to be flippant, but that is the gist of the point right?

Basically yes.

Rebellious Jukebox

Standman wrote: »

Well having no religion is not a belief system

not according to the parish priest where I originally come from. He started a conversation with me in the local pub, about why I don' t go to mass. I told him, because I don't believe! He then, frustratingly, told me that to not believe, is to believe in something???

Jaafa

Rebellious Jukebox wrote: »

not according to the parish priest where I originally come from. He started a conversation with me in the local pub, about why I don' t go to mass. I told him, because I don't believe! He then, frustratingly, told me that to not believe, is to believe in something???

To believe in non-belief?

hivizman

Rebellious Jukebox wrote: »

not according to the parish priest where I originally come from. He started a conversation with me in the local pub, about why I don' t go to mass. I told him, because I don't believe! He then, frustratingly, told me that to not believe, is to believe in something???

He may have been quoting G K Chesterton: "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."

Gregor Samsa

hivizman wrote: »

He may have been quoting G K Chesterton: "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."

No doubt he was. Man, I cringe every time I hear/read that ridiculous quote. Chesterton also said "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions". He should have stuck with that.

Jaafa

phutyle wrote: »

No doubt he was. Man, I cringe every time I hear/read that ridiculous quote. Chesterton also said "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions". He should have stuck with that.

I like that one.