Now It's Personal - Ian O'Doherty

irishconvert

koth wrote: »

Link to the program

Thanks. Doesn't work outside Ireland unfortunately. Is it on Youtube?

Edit: Just found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at_m5c9jud0

Gingko

Same Ian O' Doherty that was photographed standing angrily with his arms crossed wearing a poppy the other week? (whatever about ones opinion on the poppy is). Same Ian O' Doherty that thinks Ibiza it a great holiday destination? This guy is a muppet with a serious chip on his shoulder. Is he physically small by any chance?

irishconvert

Ok, just finished watching it. First of all, fair play to him for doing it. I have read some of his articles about Muslims and it seems to be he has the typical view of someone who knows absolutely no Muslims in everyday life and is brain washed by the anti-Muslim propaganda in the media. The best way to deal with these people is to invite them down to the mosque, or to your home and show them that we are not the scary monsters they think we are!

The conversation between him and his colleagues at the start was cringeworthy, and it is scary that the journalists who write in our national newspapers have such narrow minded ignorant views. Comments they made such as "I think you're putting yourself in to a potentially dangerous situation" are just absolutely ridiculous.

Some of his comments at the start were downright nonsense:
"The thing we have to be prepared to say is it's our house, our rules" - erm Ian, don't you realise that many Muslims are Irish, it is our house? Many of the things your generation do now would be against the rules of your ancestors and founders of this country, in fact many of our rules are closer to the values this country was founded on, so don't give us that rubbish.

"Islam, the religion of peace, and if you disagree, we'll kill you" - Ok, a typical broad generalisation. Says a lot more about him than it does about Muslims.

"Islam, the biggest thread to face the west since the end of the cold war" - How many western countries have been attacked by Muslim countries lately? I can't think of one. On the other hand, the west has attacked Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan and are gearing up for an attack on Iran. With 40,000 Muslims in Ireland, if Islam was such a threat, don't you think there would be a lot of attacks by Muslims on Ireland and Irish people?!

Other thoughts, walking out of the sermon at Friday prayer was stupid. Although why the Imam didn't give the sermon in English is beyond me. He must have known Ian O'Doherty would be there, at the very least there should have been a translation read out. Also he does seem to have a big problem with people commenting on his drinking. If he is dishing out the insults then he should be prepared to take them.

I was happy to hear him speak to the brothers in the Mosque at the end as it showed that he has taken some steps towards opening his eyes. He seemed to have realised the basic obvious fact that everyday Muslims are just like ordinary everyday non-Muslims, we just work hard, raise our families and want to live a peaceful life. We are not here to take over the country, force introduction of Sharia Law or force everyone to convert to Islam.

irishconvert

Jonniealan wrote: »

I have yet to make up my mind about wheather plan by Islam and muslims to take over Europe and the world is just scare mongering or not. Some of the odd balls being interviewed would certainly back that up.

Of course it's scare mongering. Look, I would say that every Muslim would love it if this country was Islamic and all Irish people converted. In the same way when you see a movie you think is great, or listen to a new CD by your favourite band, you want all your friends to see/listen to it and like it. But this crap about Muslims wanting to take over Europe is just a complete joke, and how people can believe this is true is beyond me.

irishconvert

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

I did enjoy the thinly veiled threat along the lines of '1 in 4 people in the world are muslim and this is growing"
This was in reference to death threats and violent reprisal upon those who dare to depict Mohammad.
Charming.

I didn't take it as a thread. It was more along the lines of he shouldn't be insulting and hurting so many people.

Amber Lamps

I watched the program and I thought that guy Ian was a disgrace. I would liken him most to that extremist guy he was talking to on the docks. I drink myself and the show to me went a great way in showing the effect of an unhealthy lifestyle in comparison. He overacted in storming out of the mosque. How badly were they torturing him ??? It would have made a more interesting program with someone less biased.

irishconvert wrote: »

Of course it's scare mongering. Look, I would say that every Muslim would love it if this country was Islamic and all Irish people converted. In the same way when you see a movie you think is great, or listen to a new CD by your favourite band, you want all your friends to see/listen to it and like it. But this crap about Muslims wanting to take over Europe is just a complete joke, and how people can believe this is true is beyond me.

I think a fear would be for instance that if we had a majority of muslim citezens that we might have to live under the laws of the majority, like sharia law...

hivizman

Thanks to irishconvert for posting a link to the video on YouTube - this allows those of us currently based outside Ireland to watch the programme.

I thought that this was an interesting programme that, as often happens in this sort of format, revealed as much about the presenter as about the subject matter. It was interesting to see the "sufi mosque" in Dublin and the mosque in Ballyhaunis (the second most westerly purpose-built mosque in Europe, apparently).

I must say that I was a little surprised that the widow living near Cork was willing to have Ian stay overnight, though perhaps her sons would have qualified as chaperons - this was a contrast with the family in Ballyhaunis, where the wife didn't want Ian to stay, despite her husband and four sons being around.

Finally, is a programme of this nature incomplete without an appearance of Khalid Kelly? He popped up in the programme that was shown earlier this year "The Truth About Irish Muslims", which I guess Ian didn't watch, and here he was again.

gerbilgranny

I watched the programme on the RTE Player today. I'm a 50-year old Christian female, and wouldn't be a fan of Ian, but was interested to learn more about Irish Muslims, and to see how Ian got on, and if his views changed at all.

The most shocking thing for me was that it was only after his week that Ian said that in future he'd differentiate between peace-loving Muslims, and extremists when he wrote about Islam etc, in future. I wouldn't be as knowledgeable as him on many matters - but come on - for years I've been saying that thinking all Muslims support terrorism is like the British thinking all Irish agreed with the terrorists actions of the IRA in the past.

Also, towards the end of the programme he referred to 'political Islam' - it seemed that he was comparing that to those who would support terrorism, murder etc. As a practicing Christian, I should hope that my faith would influence my political views - I want a world where people are treated decently and fairly, where all children are cherished and get equal opportunities, where wars and violence are overcome by peace and love. I don't know, but I would think that followers of Islam would have their political views shaped by their faith - and that doesn't necessarily, or exclusively mean that they want to 'take over the world'? Can Muslims be 'political' without being aggressive? I would think so.

Still if Ian has broadened his outlook, that's a good thing. And the programme did make for interesting viewing for us 'outsiders'.

MagicMarker

gerbilgranny wrote: »

As a practicing Christian, I should hope that my faith would influence my political views - I want a world where people are treated decently and fairly, where all children are cherished and get equal opportunities, where wars and violence are overcome by peace and love

So as a christian, you would want a world where people are treated decently and fairly? Presumably where homosexuals have the same rights as straight people, in that they could marry as well as adopt? Where children aren't involuntarily indoctrinated but are allowed to make their own mind up without external influence?

Sorry, but some people's faith are simply not compatible with a world where everyone is treated decently and fairly.

gerbilgranny

In reply to the previous post....

Firstly...I think we should abide by the guidelines, and attempt to remain on topic, i.e. discussing the television programme in question.... but seeing as you ask, yes, I personally believe in equal rights for gay people.

And I chose for my own children to attend an 'Educate Together' school, where they would be educated with children of all faiths, and none.

However...I believe I'm echoing a previous post in this thread by stating that if one has something wonderful and valuable in one's own life, it's understandable that one would wish the same for one's children.

I think there's another thread on another sub-forum, where people can also post about this programme, but I chose to do so on the Islam forum, because I wanted to show some respect for my Islamic brothers and sisters.

chucken1

Assalaamu 'alaykum

I watched this programme and one thing stuck me yet again about RTE.
Why oh why is Khalid Kelly trotted out by them as the Irish face of Islam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Kelly

I find this person offensive and feel that he is not representitive of the peaceful and calm face of Islam that I have come to know through my association with followers of Islam in my own area and abroad.

oceanclub

chucken1 wrote: »

Assalaamu 'alaykum

I watched this programme and one thing stuck me yet again about RTE.
Why oh why is Khalid Kelly trotted out by them as the Irish face of Islam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Kelly

I find this person offensive and feel that he is not representitive of the peaceful and calm face of Islam that I have come to know through my association with followers of Islam in my own area and abroad.

I think Muslims here would be entirely within their right to make a complaint to the BAI (http://www.bai.ie/broadcasting_complaints_complaintprocess.html) specially about the trotting out of KK by the media. Noone in any other community would expect, on the rare occasion their community is portrayed in the media, to have a bigot represent them.

P.

Siuin

The part at the start where they're worrying about what the Muslims he'll encounter will be like is rather OTT. And I do think that the lack of drink is over-emphasised and that he's simply playing up the the 'alcoholic Irishman' stereotype. Glad to see him put Khalid Kelly in his place, though. Also, can't understand why he kept offering to shake hands with women when he already knew that there was a rule against it.

The whole thing really reminded me of An Idiot Abroad where the guy goes through the whole experience not really appreciating anything because he's too busy complaining.

Sonics2k

Khalid Kelly is, much like the Evangelical Christians in the U.S., the worst possible aspect of Islam.

It's like comparing all of Christianity on the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church to all of Islam based on the actions of Al Qaeda.

Rebellious Jukebox

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sorry, but some people's faith are simply not compatible with a world where everyone is treated decently and fairly.

the rule's of people's faith can change through dialogue.

irishh_bob

irishconvert wrote: »

Of course it's scare mongering. Look, I would say that every Muslim would love it if this country was Islamic and all Irish people converted. In the same way when you see a movie you think is great, or listen to a new CD by your favourite band, you want all your friends to see/listen to it and like it. But this crap about Muslims wanting to take over Europe is just a complete joke, and how people can believe this is true is beyond me.

you think every muslim wishes ireland was islamic ? , thats quite an odd statement

irishh_bob

irishh_bob wrote: »

you think every muslim wishes ireland was islamic ? , thats quite an odd statement

every christian probably wants us all to be christian
it's not that odd

irishh_bob

bluewolf wrote: »

every christian probably wants us all to be christian
it's not that odd

i think its very odd indeed , i dont believe in god yet i have no wish for everyone or anyone to be an agnostic or athiest

irishh_bob

irishh_bob wrote: »

i think its very odd indeed , i dont believe in god yet i have no wish for everyone or anyone to be an agnostic or athiest

theists have a wish for everyone to go to heaven i think and not to go to hell, so it naturally follows from their belief that they want the best for everyone
i don't wish everyone would follow my religion either, to each their own, but i can see where they're coming from

irishh_bob

bluewolf wrote: »

theists have a wish for everyone to go to heaven i think and not to go to hell, so it naturally follows from their belief that they want the best for everyone
i don't wish everyone would follow my religion either, to each their own, but i can see where they're coming from

thiests arent nescesserily muslims though

irishh_bob

irishh_bob wrote: »

thiests arent nescesserily muslims though

right, but muslims are necessarily theists, so...

irishh_bob

bluewolf wrote: »

right, but muslims are necessarily theists, so...

you said thiests want everyone to go to heaven where as the origin of our discussion centres around irish converts wish for everyone in ireland to be muslim

Hobbes

Might be better suited for a new thread.

A.Partridge

I watched it on RTE Player the other evening.

Ok, let's be honest about it. Ian is not exactly Louis Theroux.
He didn't seem to have Theroux' ability to draw out more views from each of the people to whom he spoke, which is a pity. He also let himself down a little by over-reacting when he left the mosque in Ballyhaunis (you'd swear he had been sexually assaulted by a ghost or something) and when the 'drink problem' remark was passed.

However, those points aside I did actually find the programme interesting for a number of reasons:

I was anxious to see if any of the generally held pre-conceived notions of muslims in Ireland matched up with what the programme found. I think it is fair to say that while almost all of the muslims interviewed seemed to be tolerant of christians and their beliefs - the programme did show that the same tolerance levels were not extended to members of the gay community for example or for Danish cartoonists or anyone who would be critical of the prophet. While hardly surprising it was disappointing to find such intolerance among the muslims here.

While he has some demons of his own to sort out I think it was probably a good idea to send Ian O'Doherty along to do this programme precisely because he holds such right wing views of Islam. It was interesting to see that how he reacted to some situations (like being creeped out in the mosque on the first night when some dude was staring at him) because that is likely the reaction which many Irish people would have had in the same situation.

I also thought it interesting that the least tolerant muslim on the programme was Irish (Khalid Kelly). If anyone has to fear the spread of islam (which I don't btw) then it is because of the perceived threat from Islam which comes from extremists such as Kelly who looks and sounds to be more than a little unhinged.

All in all it wasn't a bad programme, but I did think it was a bit too superficial at times and never really got under the surface of what mulsims in Ireland really think. I also got the impression that the programme was somehow a little bit 'rushed' and lacking in depth from a research point of view.

Just my 2c.

irishconvert

irishh_bob wrote: »

you think every muslim wishes ireland was islamic ? , thats quite an odd statement

Ok maybe not every Muslim, but quite a high percentage. What's so odd about that?

Grassroots_FF

Judging by Ian O'Doherty's appearance and manner he obviously has a substance abuse problem. Very overweight, constantly sweating, always on edge, paranoid etc etc

charlemont

Sonics2k wrote: »

Khalid Kelly is, much like the Evangelical Christians in the U.S., the worst possible aspect of Islam.

It's like comparing all of Christianity on the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church to all of Islam based on the actions of Al Qaeda.

The vast majority of Muslims would only laugh at KK.

Most Muslims in Ireland probably would not want us all to convert and have an Islamic run state because if we did then we would have a country just as bad and as strict as some of the ones they came from.. Can you just picture Michael McDowell as a strict Muslim, He would be ten times worse worse than McQuade or DeValera.

irishh_bob

charlemont wrote: »

The vast majority of Muslims would only laugh at KK.

Most Muslims in Ireland probably would not want us all to convert and have an Islamic run state because if we did then we would have a country just as bad and as strict as some of the ones they came from.. Can you just picture Michael McDowell as a strict Muslim, He would be ten times worse worse than McQuade or DeValera.

irishconvert seems to think otherwise

irishconvert

irishh_bob wrote: »

irishconvert seems to think otherwise

I don't want anything against the will of the Irish people. However I would like if Irish people freely converted to Islam. It's just an aspiration, one that most likely will never be realised!

oceanclub

irishconvert wrote: »

I don't want anything against the will of the Irish people. However I would like if Irish people freely converted to Islam. It's just an aspiration, one that most likely will never be realised!

If the bans on alcohol and pigmeat are lifted, there might be a very very tiny chance....

Incidentally, here's Ian's latest: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/ian-odoherty-we-will-not-tolerate-intolerance-2947821.html

Supposedly the main problem with Nazi Germany was that racists were criticised.

He really is a cretin.

P.