Today was a blow for parish pump politics

Nodin_

So Willie Penrose has resigned as Minister for State today because an army barracks in his constituency will be closed. (He hasn't quit government altogether though, no way would he ever give up that fat pay cheque!) Typical gombeen behaviour. The government acts in the national interest to make some much-needed savings and the baby throws his toys out the pram because the closures are in his backyard. Gombeens are not solely a Fianna Fail phenomenon, you know. Fair play to the government for sticking to their guns. How many more self-serving, narrow minded gombeens are hiding on the government benches?

Vizzy

Ordinarily I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but I wonder if this was purely an economic decision.
There must be a huge cost to the country when you relocate 500 soldiers
I presume that there will be some payout which will be a once off payment which will not recur next year but there are other costs like security,maintenance etc.Nobody will buy the barracks,particularly at this time as they are all protected structures.
Heard some woman from Clonmel stating that it costs €166K to keep the barracks open but it will cost €5+ million to close it.

Poccington

Vizzy wrote: »

Ordinarily I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but I wonder if this was purely an economic decision.
There must be a huge cost to the country when you relocate 500 soldiers
I presume that there will be some payout which will be a once off payment which will not recur next year but there are other costs like security,maintenance etc.Nobody will buy the barracks,particularly at this time as they are all protected structures.
Heard some woman from Clonmel stating that it costs €166K to keep the barracks open but it will cost €5+ million to close it.

The relocated troops won't recieve any kind of payout.

Teclo

You presume the government always acts in the national interest.

Manach

Perhaps Mr. Penrose had the odd opinion that once an election campaign promise is made it should have been honoured?

thebman

Vizzy wrote: »

Ordinarily I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but I wonder if this was purely an economic decision.
There must be a huge cost to the country when you relocate 500 soldiers
I presume that there will be some payout which will be a once off payment which will not recur next year but there are other costs like security,maintenance etc.Nobody will buy the barracks,particularly at this time as they are all protected structures.
Heard some woman from Clonmel stating that it costs €166K to keep the barracks open but it will cost €5+ million to close it.

relocate 500 soldiers? From Mullingar to Athlone? It is a half hour drive a day.

Also any cost of shutting it down is a once off payment compared to the annual cost of running it.

anymore

thebman wrote: »

relocate 500 soldiers? From Mullingar to Athlone? It is a half hour drive a day.

Also any cost of shutting it down is a once off payment compared to the annual cost of running it.

The closure of the military barracks in the Co Cork town of Ballincollig was the makings of that town.

Mycroft H

Also the cost of maintaining a derelict building has to be considered

Vizzy

anymore wrote: »

The closure of the military barracks in the Co Cork town of Ballincollig was the makings of that town.

How so ??
What happened ?

Sierra Oscar

How was this in the national interest? The savings required to close these barracks are in the very long term future - it will cost us far more to close them in the short to medium term anyways, so our commitments under the EU/IMF bailout will not be satisfied eitherway.

It will cost us millions in to close these barracks and accordingly further savings must be made elsewhere to offset these closure costs.

Delancey

Virtually anyone in the army will tell you that there are too many barracks the upkeep of which eats up valuable resources , 10 or 15 years ago there was something like 24 or 26 barracks - ludicrous !

Fionn

Read the Irish Times article which would support the notion that it WILL cost the Tax payer more money.

The National Interest is NOT served by this!! the reports they are basing their decisions on, are years out of date at this stage, in fact the document that the Irish Times has seen,
Even though the authorities have stated;

“There is no reason to believe that the cost of any future closures would not be along the same lines,” he said.

actually has Minister Shatter's initials and signature on the documents, that would indicate that he knows that it will cost us poor tax payers the amount quoted, but, it will make him look good in light of not exactly stellar performances of late! these documents also have signatures of Heads of the Dept of Defence on them.
This is nothing more than political football

The only result of this really, is that the economic spend in these constituencies will be transferred to other areas or constituencies, people will suffer economically because of this, people will lose their jobs (not soldiers) but people working in the affected areas.

it has been argued that there will be no loss of employment if these closures goes ahead, but there will be a knock on effect to the economy of the areas concerned,local business will suffer.

The figure that PDFORRA estimated, was a loss to the local economy of around nine to ten million Euros!
So our government are actually instrumental to encouraging unemployment and at the same time squandering scarce resources.

i've stated in other places that there are further issues with a closure of properties this size, there is an environmental impact to consider also, consider for instance what the former barracks in Kildare (McGee Bks) is like!! the place is a no go area and a potential hazard to all and sundry.
Same goes for the former barracks in Longford (Connolly Bks). Do we really need more Barracks to be left to rot and fester???

Willie Penrose who i dont know, seems to me to be a man of honour and some conviction, and probably has more national interest than a lot!!!
pity a few more of our muppets/puppets politicians wouldn't show a bit more of that sort of bottle and back bone.

thebman

BX 19 wrote: »

Also the cost of maintaining a derelict building has to be considered

Given the barracks has been there for 200 years you could probably turn it into a tourist attraction and make money off it.

newmug

Nodin_ wrote: »

So Willie Penrose has resigned as Minister for State today because an army barracks in his constituency will be closed. (He hasn't quit government altogether though, no way would he ever give up that fat pay cheque!) Typical gombeen behaviour. The government acts in the national interest to make some much-needed savings and the baby throws his toys out the pram because the closures are in his backyard. Gombeens are not solely a Fianna Fail phenomenon, you know. Fair play to the government for sticking to their guns. How many more self-serving, narrow minded gombeens are hiding on the government benches?

You have this completely the wrong way around.

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps Mr. Penrose had the odd opinion that once an election campaign promise is made it should have been honoured?

+1. Maybe if more politicians put their money where their mouth is like Mr. Penrose has, previous governments wouldn't have been allowed to put our money into the shredding machines of pointless motorways, empty-hotel tax-breaks, the public-service inefficiency rewards system known as benchmarking, and buddy-protection bank bailouts!

Blowfish

Fionn wrote: »

The only result of this really, is that the economic spend in these constituencies will be transferred to other areas or constituencies, people will suffer economically because of this, people will lose their jobs (not soldiers) but people working in the affected areas.

Fionn wrote:

So our government are actually instrumental to encouraging unemployment and at the same time squandering scarce resources.

It's disengenious to point out that it's a transfer of economic spend and then focus only on the negative side of this.

The soldiers wont be disapearing off the face of the planet, the loss economically/employment wise in Mullingar will be balanced by the gain in Athlone. There will be no net gain/loss at all, thus arguing that the government are encouraging unemployment by this makes no sense.

Fionn

Blowfish wrote: »

It's disengenious to point out that it's a transfer of economic spend....

I disagree, i think it's disingenuous of the Minister and his croneys and the military authorities to ignore a recent internal report commissioned by them and carried out by dept of defence officials that clearly state that this will cost all of us extra funds!

It's disingenuous for Enda Kenny to state "the previous government closed 10 barracks, of which six had been sold to raise €85 million which was invested in the Defence Forces." when it's accepted that this time around there will be NO sale of these properties in the foreseeable future and therefore no funds raised to re-invest. Its all red herrings and spin.

The soldiers wont be disapearing off the face of the planet, the loss economically/employment wise in Mullingar will be balanced by the gain in Athlone. There will be no net gain/loss at all, thus arguing that the government are encouraging unemployment by this makes no sense.

tell that to business people and low earners in Clonmel and Mullingar

soldiers WILL be disappearing from those towns!! also with the barracks closed there will not be any other troops who are usually temporarily stationed there on courses and reserve training and other events who again do contribute to the local economy of the towns.
No matter what way you dress it up, it IS a shift of wealth from towns that have been ravaged already by unemployment to the benefit of bigger areas and this is being carried out by our government.

Seth Brundle

Poccington wrote: »

The relocated troops won't recieve any kind of payout.

Unlike Mr. Penrose who will make a quick €30K for moving to the back of the room!

Zubeneschamali

Fionn wrote: »

No matter what way you dress it up, it IS a shift of wealth from towns that have been ravaged already by unemployment to the benefit of bigger areas

Athlone is a "bigger area" than the county town, Mullingar?

Son Of A Vidic

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps Mr. Penrose had the odd opinion that once an election campaign promise is made it should have been honoured?

That's a good point, indeed most if not all are elected on the back of such local promises. I just hope he also gives up any payments he would have received for his former position in government.

goat2

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

That's a good point, indeed most if not all are elected on the back of such local promises. I just hope he also gives up any payments he would have received for his former position in government.

i wonder why close it, as i was listning to news yesterday, it would cost a hell of alot to close it rather than keeping it open, these guys will be receiving travelling expenses to get to barracks, i think it is the financial they should be looking at, i am not worried whether mr penrose steps down or not, i am only looking at common sense, if it is less expensive by a few million as we were informed to keep it open and in operation, then so be it, it is madness to shut it

johnnyskeleton

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

How was this in the national interest? The savings required to close these barracks are in the very long term future - it will cost us far more to close them in the short to medium term anyways, so our commitments under the EU/IMF bailout will not be satisfied eitherway.

It will cost us millions in to close these barracks and accordingly further savings must be made elsewhere to offset these closure costs.

How does it cost millions?

Cost of sign saying "barracks now closed" = €10
Cost of selling it to the highest bidder starting at €1 = €2,990

Total cost of closing the barracks = €3k. What have I missed?

goat2

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How does it cost millions?

Cost of sign saying "barracks now closed" = €10
Cost of selling it to the highest bidder starting at €1 = €2,990

Total cost of closing the barracks = €3k. What have I missed?

according to last nights news, the people were saying that it would cost some millions to close this down, and long term, i dont know how it would work out, but if they are going to give travelling expenses it is going out of all order on costings, also if we are into our envoirnment there will be more imprint on invoirnment than if they were let in the present place,
it is not making sense to me, making it harder on families and more expensive on the already broke country.

thebman

goat2 wrote: »

according to last nights news, the people were saying that it would cost some millions to close this down, and long term, i dont know how it would work out, but if they are going to give travelling expenses it is going out of all order on costings, also if we are into our envoirnment there will be more imprint on invoirnment than if they were let in the present place,
it is not making sense to me, making it harder on families and more expensive on the already broke country.

People with vested interests in it probably are being economical with the truth though.

They should give a detailed breakdown of their figures if they are so sure of them.

anymore

Fionn wrote: »

I disagree, i think it's disingenuous of the Minister and his croneys and the military authorities to ignore a recent internal report commissioned by them and carried out by dept of defence officials that clearly state that this will cost all of us extra funds!

It's disingenuous for Enda Kenny to state "the previous government closed 10 barracks, of which six had been sold to raise €85 million which was invested in the Defence Forces." when it's accepted that this time around there will be NO sale of these properties in the foreseeable future and therefore no funds raised to re-invest. Its all red herrings and spin.



tell that to business people and low earners in Clonmel and Mullingar

soldiers WILL be disappearing from those towns!! also with the barracks closed there will not be any other troops who are usually temporarily stationed there on courses and reserve training and other events who again do contribute to the local economy of the towns.
No matter what way you dress it up, it IS a shift of wealth from towns that have been ravaged already by unemployment to the benefit of bigger areas and this is being carried out by our government.

Clonmel is still a prosperous town so there is no point in playing the poor mouth.

anymore

goat2 wrote: »

according to last nights news, the people were saying that it would cost some millions to close this down, and long term, i dont know how it would work out, but if they are going to give travelling expenses it is going out of all order on costings, also if we are into our envoirnment there will be more imprint on invoirnment than if they were let in the present place,
it is not making sense to me, making it harder on families and more expensive on the already broke country.

As i watch yet another neighbour driving around in a new 2011 car, i am getting tired of reading about ireland being broke ! People are already planning thier hols to the Euro Finals next year and the HSE employees salary rise to be given next year will cost us € 200 million more to the HSE wage bill - So, how are we broke ??????????????????

Excuse the diversion from main thread theme.

Pete_Cavan

Claiming closing these army barracks will actually cost the state money is very disingenuous. I have seen and heard this claimed by many but the only costs of locating I have seen put the cost at €8.5 million. The savings of €5million per annum will see this cost recouped within two years, after which time we will continue to saved €5m a year compared to if they remained open.

As for what to do with the sites of the now closed barracks, they dont have to be sold. The land may be of use to another government department, removing land acquisition costs for other projects. The new multi-user Education Campus in Monaghan is being built on the site of the former Military Barrack.

goat2

thebman wrote: »

People with vested interests in it probably are being economical with the truth though.

They should give a detailed breakdown of their figures if they are so sure of them.

must admit i do not know anything about these barracks, how many soldiers are there and how many are local to the area, would like to hear a truthful breakdown of cost of closing and am wondering if the place will just be lying idle or used for something else altogether

thebman

goat2 wrote: »

must admit i do not know anything about these barracks, how many soldiers are there and how many are local to the area, would like to hear a truthful breakdown of cost of closing and am wondering if the place will just be lying idle or used for something else altogether

I think a large part of the exaggeration is acting like Athlone is on the other side of the country.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=barracks,+athlone&daddr=Columb+Barracks,+Mullingar,+Co.+West+Meath,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.442264,-7.643738&spn=0.389358,1.167297&sll=53.450443,-7.418518&sspn=0.389283,1.167297&geocode=FXgtLwMdsMmG_ykF3_0XAklcSDHnxGKjkMJRlg%3BFRPCMAMducuP_w&vpsrc=0&mra=ls&t=h&z=10

really long link sorry.

Poccington

In the short term, it's going to cost the Government money. However, I believe in the long term the Government will easy make a saving.

dsmythy

Penrose can look forward to getting elected next campaign so. The parish pump in this constituency will be stronger than ever.