Lawn maintenance - Rented property

The_Honeybadger

Hi All, just want some opinions on this. We moved into a 3 bed semi lately, it has a small garden in the front and a fairly large garden to the rear. The landlord hasn't provided a lawnmower, nor is there anywhere to store it if I was to buy one (no garden shed or utility room). When I asked the agent about this he said the lawn was my responsibility and i would have to buy a mower, I then proceeded to ask where was I supposed to keep it when I wasn't using it and he basically said it wasn't his problem, and that a garden shed would only be a couple of hundred euro. He also added that he knows of gardeners who will come in and cut the lawn for about €30 a time.

I know the first reaction i'm going to get is "surely you knew all this when you signed the lease etc". However when we signed the lease we were desperately in need of a place and had to take the first suitable house in terms of location due to a change in job. Our previous landlord (who we had a great relationship with) agreed to let us break our lease as long as we'd be willing to move at short notice if / when he found a new tenant. He did and we ended up wiith about a 10 days to find a new place and move all our stuff etc, while working full time also.

Do you think the agents position above is reasonable? Any place I have ever rented in the past always had a shed and a mower, and in one place the landlord used to come around and cut the grass ( I appreciate this is the exception rather than the rule). Is there any rules regarding lawn areas and the provision of a mower that are relevant here, or should I just stump up to hire a gardener to do it. I can't see us being here more than a year as the place isn't the nicest, we wouldn't have taken it normally, cheap flatpact furniture, badly painted and generally negleted feel about the house etc so paying for a mower and shed is probably out of the question. Sorry for the long winded post.

GerardKeating

Does the lease you signed actually state this???

wyndham

It comes down to the lease really. Legally, it is the landlord's responsibility to maintain the exterior and gardens. Thread about it here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055836451

The_Honeybadger

The lease is a standard one used bu the letting agency, with the address changed for each letting. I'd be reasonably sure it absolves him of any responsibility in this case. I'll check when I get home, thanks. Btw I have absolutely no issue with maintaining the lawn or any other part of the property, and if i had a shed or utility room I'd happily buy a mower, but expecting me to provide both is taking the mick IMO. Looks like I'll have to find a solution in any case as I doubt I'll find anything that helps me in the lease. as I get to know the neighbours perhaps I can borrow one or something and fill it with pertrol for them.

Thanks again

Victor

You may be able to hire a mower from plant hire shops by the day. Realistically, you won't need to cut the grass more than once or twice between now and March / April.

Eleganza

problem solved

The_Honeybadger

Eleganza wrote: »

problem solved

LOL I wonder if I'd get my deposit back!!

@ Victor I'm not worried about here to March, its March to next Sept-October where the problem arises, and I can just see it being a complete pain on an ongoing basis. Have lots of time to sort something will try to work out a solution with the agent. Thanks for all the replies.

Theprogardener

Spray off the garden with round-up, tell the landlord you were trying to fertilize it but must have spread too much Or pay some local kid €20.00 every second week during growing season Mid April - October. No need to pick up grass.

stepbar

I would just buy a push lawnmower - http://www.buy4now.ie/woodiesdiy/productdetail.aspx?pid=12531&loc=P&catid=102.10.3

You'll have it for the next house you go to and you won't be wasting money hiring a lawnmower.

KHUGY

I tried one of these new push mowers, thouht i would get nice stripes in the lawn but the thing could'nt even cut the grass. They just don't make these things like the used to. They are too light so they just keep jamming in the grass and if you use too much force they just pop up out of the grass.. no real weight in them.

BostonB

Push mowers only work on short grass that needs a trim. Its something you have to do once a week. They won't work on long grass at all. You can't leave it a few weeks with a push mower.

PaudyW

20 to 30 euro to have you lawn mowed is mental unless its half acre, you d buy a lawnmower and shed a year cheaper then keep paying that,

Zamboni

If they want you to maintain the lawn, they should provide the tools.

The_Honeybadger

Zamboni wrote: »

If they want you to maintain the lawn, they should provide the tools.

I'm not sure the LL or agent cares very much whether we maintain the lawn or not, it was in a right state when we viewed the house so it wasn't looked after before we moved in. However I have two small kids who will want to enjoy the garden in nice weather. A work colleague of mine who lives nearby has agreed to lend me a mower whenever I need it so i plan to just return it full of Petrol each time. Happy enough with this but still thinks the LL shoud offer to provide a mower.

BostonB

What matter is the lease. If it says the tenant does it then you've agreed to do it. If not its the LL responsibility.

Personally I'd ask the tenant do you want me coming in every week cutting the grass or do you want to do it yourself if I give you a lawn mower.

An Ri rua

BostonB wrote: »

What matter is the lease. If it says the tenant does it then you've agreed to do it. If not its the LL responsibility.

Personally I'd ask the tenant do you want me coming in every week cutting the grass or do you want to do it yourself if I give you a lawn mower.

I don't think any of the advice here is correct at all re tenant's rights. If the LL is a new LL or perhaps its a new property let, then from a certain date onwards, exterior maintenance (includes grounds, garden) will be the LL's responsibility. Check on PRTB or Threshold or AAM or further on Boards. I am quite sure of this; I'm living in an apartment now but until June was in a rented house with dodgy gardens. I brought them up to a great standard but the LL was a lazy feckless sh1te. There was a reprieve for current landlords up until a certain time threshold but new LLs were legally obliged to maintain gardens. Older LLs would come under this legislation over time. Look it up, you will be surprised (and delighted hopefully).


EDIT: - Links below added to counteract any daft quoting of above. The answers are below. Not bothered nipping and tucking above. QED.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64626245

http://www.liveandlet.ie/Tenants/ 4 Year phasing in period on non-new lets.

BostonB

I have no idea why you quoted me. The links you give don't say anything different to me.

An Ri rua

BostonB wrote: »

I have no idea why you quoted me. The links you give don't say anything different to me.

Not true actually. did you not say that it depends on what the lease says ?? No, it does not. tenant's rights as enshrined in law overarch lease law.

BostonB

No I said its up to the LL. End off. But you can come to some other agreement, and you'd usually put it in the lease. I just put that in reverse order. Thinking like a programmer if not then etc.

Why people don't check/agree all these things before they move in I have no idea. Of course if you don't mind the Landlord or agent coming around every week, then its not an issue. That usually the last thing people want.

The_Honeybadger

BostonB wrote: »

No I said its up to the LL. End off. But you can come to some other agreement, and you'd usually put it in the lease. I just put that in reverse order. Thinking like a programmer if not then etc.

Why people don't check/agree all these things before they move in I have no idea. Of course if you don't mind the Landlord or agent coming around every week, then its not an issue. That usually the last thing people want.

I think I made it clear in the op why I didn't check it out before I moved in.

odds_on

An Ri rua wrote: »

I don't think any of the advice here is correct at all re tenant's rights. If the LL is a new LL or perhaps its a new property let, then from a certain date onwards, exterior maintenance (includes grounds, garden) will be the LL's responsibility. Check on PRTB or Threshold or AAM or further on Boards. I am quite sure of this; I'm living in an apartment now but until June was in a rented house with dodgy gardens. I brought them up to a great standard but the LL was a lazy feckless sh1te. There was a reprieve for current landlords up until a certain time threshold but new LLs were legally obliged to maintain gardens. Older LLs would come under this legislation over time. Look it up, you will be surprised (and delighted hopefully).


EDIT: - Links below added to counteract any daft quoting of above. The answers are below. Not bothered nipping and tucking above. QED.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64626245

http://www.liveandlet.ie/Tenants/ 4 Year phasing in period on non-new lets.

I believe you are incorrect about the landlord having to maintain the garden. His obligation ends when the garden is a safe place to be - i.e. that the walls, fences and other "structures" must be maintained. Not cutting the grass nor tending to plants, cleaning the patio area (if any) etc.

Otherwise the landlord would also be required to maintain the interior of the house but is limited to the "structure" of the building and not the maintenance of cleaning.

In the HOUSING (STANDARDS FOR RENTED HOUSES) REGULATIONS 2008
and the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses)(Amendment) Regulations 2009, refers to landlord obligations and in an explanatory note it states:

EXPLANATORY NOTE
(This note is not part of the Instrument and does not purport to be a legal interpretation)
The standards relate to, inter alia, structural condition, provision of sanitary facilities, food preparation, storage and laundry, availability of adequate heating, lighting and ventilation, safety of electricity and gas installations, fire safety and refuse facilities.

There is no mention of maintenance, it is the structural condition and safety of the garden and garden facilities - lighting and water supply for example.

In the S.I. No. 147/1993: HOUSING (STANDARDS FOR RENTED HOUSES) REGULATIONS, 1993, it states:

(2) All outoffices, yards and forecourts within the curtilage of the building containing the house and all boundary walls, fences and railings shall be maintained in good repair.

EXPLANATORY NOTE.
These Regulations require landlords of rented houses (including flats and maisonettes), with some exceptions, to ensure that such houses meet certain minimum standards. The standards relate to, inter alia, structural condition, provision of sinks, waterclosets, fixed baths or showers, cooking and food storage facilities, safety of electricity and gas installations, availability of adequate heating, lighting and ventilation, maintenance of common areas, etc

All the above refer to the "structural" state and maintenance - not gardening such as lawn mowing.

The RTA 2004, defines a dwelling:

‘‘dwelling’’ means, subject to subsection (2), a property let for rent or valuable consideration as a self-contained residential unit and includes any building or part of a building used as a dwelling and any out office, yard, garden or other land appurtenant to it or usually enjoyed with it and, where the context so admits, includes a property available for letting but excludes a structure that is not permanently attached to the ground and a vessel and a vehicle (whether mobile or not);

Under the tenant's obligations, in the RTA 2004 Pt.2 S.16

(f) not do any act that would cause a deterioration in the con-
dition the dwelling was in at the commencement of the tenancy, but there shall be disregarded, in determining whether this obligation has been complied with at a particular time, any deterioration in that condition owing to normal wear and tear, that is to say wear and tear that is normal having regard to—
(i) the time that has elapsed from the commencement of the tenancy,
(ii) the extent of occupation of the dwelling the landlord must have reasonably foreseen would occur since that commencement, and
(iii) any other relevant matters,
(g) if paragraph (f) is not complied with, take such steps as the landlord may reasonably require to be taken for the purpose of restoring the dwelling to the condition mentioned in paragraph (f) or to defray any costs incurred by the landlord in his or her taking such steps as are reasonable
for that purpose,

Thus, as I see understand it, the tenant is liable for taking care of the dwelling - cleaning and maintenance of the interior as well as the exterior including garden maintenance with regard to cutting the grass, tending plants etc. but not for the maintenance of garden walls or fences etc.

My own lease has a clause under the tenant obligations:

To keep the gardens, patios and terraces (if any) including all driveways, pathways, lawns, hedges, landscaping, ornamental features including water features neat, tidy and properly tended at all times and not remove any trees or plants or any item belonging to the landlord.

BostonB

mickeyk wrote: »

I think I made it clear in the op why I didn't check it out before I moved in.

Indeed. How does that help? Assume its the LL. How are you going to get him to do it.

An Ri rua

Similar thread here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055836451 also further quoting http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

I appreciate the extensive reply odds_on but I hope you're wrong. I will have to search again, but I am sure it was definitive that all landlords would, after phased-in years, be fully responsible for lawncare etc, regardless of lease clauses. I appreciate, as I'm sure others do, the comprehensive reply.

The_Honeybadger

BostonB wrote: »

Indeed. How does that help? Assume its the LL. How are you going to get him to do it.

Not sure what you mean here, I mentioned in the OP that I had a very short window to find a new house, get the lease sorted, move myself wife and kids in, while working 55 hrs a week at the same time. Needless to say this was a hectic and stressful period so sorting things like who was going to cut the lawn was the last thing on my mind. The standard of vacant rental properties in the area was shocking, but with the timeframe I had I was forced to take the best of a bad lot. This is why I hadn't anything agreed regarding the lawn before I moved in.

I am going to borrow a mower from a work colleague when I need to mow the lawn, and return it full of petrol, so the LL won't be doing it for me, I'd prefer to do it myself in any case. Perhaps this is letting him off the hook but I'm not bothered, will be moving out when the lease expires in any case to somewhere better so can't be arsed starting an argument with the agency over something like this.

odds_on

An Ri rua wrote: »

Similar thread here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055836451 also further quoting http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

I appreciate the extensive reply odds_on but I hope you're wrong. I will have to search again, but I am sure it was definitive that all landlords would, after phased-in years, be fully responsible for lawncare etc, regardless of lease clauses. I appreciate, as I'm sure others do, the comprehensive reply.

Hi An Ri rua,
If you can provide a definitive clause among all the laws, I will be very happy to change my point of view. However, I think that anything in this context always refers to the "structural" condition that must be maintained in good repair.

Victor

I haven't studied the matter in detail, but my understanding was that the landlord had to ensue the outside of the property was taken care of, not that the landlord had to do it.

odds_on

Victor wrote: »

I haven't studied the matter in detail, but my understanding was that the landlord had to ensue the outside of the property was taken care of, not that the landlord had to do it.

I think you are correct there, Victor, though I can't currently put my finger on the exact legal clause.

If, at the beginning of a lease, the outside of the dwelling is not in a good condition, the tenant is not required to improve it, only to maintain it to it to the condition it was at the start of the tenancy.

Again, if the owner of a property has any real interest in his garden and wants it maintained in mint condition, then he is likely to have someone (or himself) do the necessary upkeep and probably will include the cost in the rental price. After all, you cannot expect a non-gardening tenant to maintain a garden to that extent.

Thus most (good) leases will have a clause as to who will maintain the garden in the condition it was at the beginning of the tenancy.

I remember the first house that I bought, no place to keep a lawnmower, there was I on my hands and knees with a hedge clippers, cutting the grass. Now, I wouldn't expect a tenant to have to do that.

Graces7

The ad and lease for one rental we had said the LL would do the garden. Large grassy area. On a steep slope.

He cut it once in 18 months.

The ad for that houise still says ll will do the garden...

Here our new LL cleared a large wilderness area for a garden so we took on that responsibility. Would still love him to strim the drive area as we cannot handle that kind of machine. It has been promised....