Second generation Irish in Dundalk?

Johnny Foreigner

Are there any second generation Irish in Dundalk?

James__10

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Are there any second generation Irish in Dundalk?

Are you for real? Most of your threads seem to be poor attempts at taking the piss :rolleyes:

Johnny Foreigner

James__10 wrote: »

Are you for real? Most of your threads seem to be poor attempts at taking the piss :rolleyes:

Yes, I am for real.
I am second generation Irish myself, born in London to Irish parents.
I just wondered if there are any others like me in Dundalk?

Dunny

800 years!

10green bottles

Johnny,Johnny,Johnny,Johnny

Johnny:D

??
So many questions,so little time !

locum-motion

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Yes, I am for real.
I am second generation Irish myself, born in London to Irish parents.
I just wondered if there are any others like me in Dundalk?

Born in London to Irish parents; you are Irish. You are also British. But you're not "second generation Irish", at least not in the conventional sense of the term. The term "second generation whatever" is usually applied to the children of immigrants. So if Mr. & Mrs. Wong arrived in New York from China in the 50's, their children are "second generation American", their grandchildren are "third generation American" etc.

So if the "second generation" tag applies to you at all, Johnny, it applies only in the sense that you are "second generation British".

event

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Are there any second generation Irish in Dundalk?

no

ronankan

Are you talking about "The New Irish" who are helping us with our economy ?

Johnny Foreigner

locum-motion wrote: »

Born in London to Irish parents; you are Irish. You are also British. But you're not "second generation Irish", at least not in the conventional sense of the term. The term "second generation whatever" is usually applied to the children of immigrants. So if Mr. & Mrs. Wong arrived in New York from China in the 50's, their children are "second generation American", their grandchildren are "third generation American" etc.

So if the "second generation" tag applies to you at all, Johnny, it applies only in the sense that you are "second generation British".

I think you should read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irish-Blood-English-Heart-Generation/dp/1859184618
I am second generation Irish the same as Shane MacGowan (Pogues) is.
We are sometimes called London-Irish or Plastic Paddies.

Johnny Foreigner

event wrote: »

no

Well I am one of them so you are wrong there.

Johnny Foreigner

ronankan wrote: »

Are you talking about "The New Irish" who are helping us with our economy ?

No.
I am talking about second generation Irish living in Dundalk.
People that were born outside of Ireland to Irish parents.
This has nothing to do with helping our economy.

Johnny Foreigner

Dunny! wrote: »

800 years!

800 years of what?

MugMugs

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Dunny! wrote: »

800 years!

800 years of what?

I would assume he meant occupation.

locum-motion

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I think you should read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Irish-Blood-English-Heart-Generation/dp/1859184618
I am second generation Irish the same as Shane MacGowan (Pogues) is.
We are sometimes called London-Irish or Plastic Paddies.

Do you disagree with me that Mr. & Mrs. Wong's kids would be described as 2nd Generation Americans?
Shane McGowan is not 2nd Generation Irish. He's 2nd Generation British, of Irish descent. Due to the way the citizenship laws of this country operate, he is also Irish (or, at least, he's entitled to be Irish, should he choose to be)
A person who is "2nd Generation Irish" is a person born in Ireland to parents who were born outside Ireland.

Johnny Foreigner

locum-motion wrote: »

Do you disagree with me that Mr. & Mrs. Wong's kids would be described as 2nd Generation Americans?
Shane McGowan is not 2nd Generation Irish. He's 2nd Generation British, of Irish descent. Due to the way the citizenship laws of this country operate, he is also Irish (or, at least, he's entitled to be Irish, should he choose to be)
A person who is "2nd Generation Irish" is a person born in Ireland to parents who were born outside Ireland.

You are wrong.
A person born in Ireland is first generation Irish.
A person born outside of Ireland to Irish parents is second generation Irish.
A person born outside of Ireland to second generation Irish parents is third generation Irish.
All of the above cases are Irish citizens.

For example; Noel and Liam Gallagher (Oasis) are Manchester-Irish, second generation Irish.

Paul McCartney and John Lennon (Beatles) are Liverpool-Irish, third generation Irish.

Johnny Foreigner

locum-motion wrote: »

Do you disagree with me that Mr. & Mrs. Wong's kids would be described as 2nd Generation Americans?
Shane McGowan is not 2nd Generation Irish. He's 2nd Generation British, of Irish descent. Due to the way the citizenship laws of this country operate, he is also Irish (or, at least, he's entitled to be Irish, should he choose to be)
A person who is "2nd Generation Irish" is a person born in Ireland to parents who were born outside Ireland.

Shane MacGowan was born in Kent to Irish parents; therefore he is second generation Irish.

If Mr and Mrs Wong are Chinese, then their children would be second generation Chinese (if born in America), and first generation American.

locum-motion

ps. If you fancy having this debate over a pint (since you're new to Dundalk, and might not know many people) I'm planning on heading to the Garden tonight, but am unlikely to arrive before midnight.

locum-motion

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

You are wrong...

I'm prepared to concede that I may be, but honestly don't think I am.
I was thinking about it as I drove up the road, and I still think that my interpretation of the way in which the phrase is usually used is the right one. I even have a little theory as to why your interpretation is the opposite to mine.
If you want to know what my theory is...
well, in about 5 mins I'll be walking past those annoying bells (have you got used to them yet, by the way?) on my way to The Garden. Join me for a pint.
Alternatively, wait a couple of hours and I might post it up here, but I may be slurring my words a little by then! 😄

locum-motion

ps. The Gallaghers = 2nd Generation Mancunian or 2nd Generation English or 2nd Generation British.
Lennon and McCartney = 3rd Generation Liverpudlian or 3rd Generation English or 3rd Generation British.
McGowan = 2nd Generation Kentish or 2nd Generation English or 2nd Generation British.

Johnny Foreigner

locum-motion wrote: »

ps. If you fancy having this debate over a pint (since you're new to Dundalk, and might not know many people) I'm planning on heading to the Garden tonight, but am unlikely to arrive before midnight.

Great minds think alike.
I was in the Garden myself tonight.
But I was out of there by 11.00pm and on to Bru Bakers.
The thing is we are both Irish.
I do not care whether you are right or wrong about me being second generation Irish or not.
I am Irish and that's that.
If a cat was born in a stable, would you call it a horse?
A cat is a cat no matter where it is born.
Just the same as you are Irish no matter where you are born.
Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil iad féin

event

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Well I am one of them so you are wrong there.

well why did you ask if you knew the answer was yes?

locum-motion

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

...
The thing is we are both Irish.
...
I am Irish and that's that.
...

I'm not trying to deny your Irishness. In fact, the 1st thing I said to you on the topic was

locum-motion wrote: »

Born in London to Irish parents; you are Irish.

Wikipedia has an article entitled "Immigrant Generations" which attempts to explain this concept. In it, they use the fictional country of Ruritania in their examples. They talk about '1st Generation Ruritanian', '2nd Generation Ruritanian' etc, but in all cases they are referring to Immigrants (or their descendants) TO Ruritania, not Emigrants FROM Ruritania.
The article points out that there is controversy about whether the "1st Generation" tag applies to the immigrants themselves or to their kids (who are the first generation to be born in the new country) but there's no debate about the topic you and I are debating. Wikipedia points at this page on the debate. All of its contributors debating the meaning of 1st Generation American etc an all are talking about immigration to America not emigration from America.

I am Irish, born in Ireland to Irish parents. I'm - I dunno - 3,000th generation Irish. If I emigrate to Ruritania, I will become Ruritanian. I'll still be Irish, but I'll be Ruritanian too. My kids will be 3,001st Generation Irish & 2nd Generation Ruritanian!

I said I had a theory: for reasons of pride/nationalism etc, I'd say the Irish in Britain are resistant to calling themselves British. So I think in the case of the Irish in Britain the normal usage has become reversed. I wonder if that might be the case.

Johnny Foreigner

I said I had a theory: for reasons of pride/nationalism etc, I'd say the Irish in Britain are resistant to calling themselves British. So I think in the case of the Irish in Britain the normal usage has become reversed. I wonder if that might be the case.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your theory.
The Irish diaspora that emigrated cities like London in the 1950's and 1960's were subjected to racism from the British. Signs in boarding house windows like; No Blacks No Dogs No Irish, were common place.
During the IRA's bombing campaign of the 1970's and 1980's, the Irish in London suffered a lot of discrimination and abuse from the British.
Many of the Irish children were bullied at school and had to cover the Irish accents up on public transport for example.
Like many children of the Irish diaspora (my parents came to London in 1960), we became polarised and nationalist. We rejected anything English and embraced anything Irish. Growing up in London we never felt British, we always felt Irish. I think that resistance to calling oneself British carries on from your childhood to adulthood.
Maybe you are right, the term has been reversed as a result. There has never been such a controversy with Irish Americans calling themselves American. But due to the history between Ireland and Britain we would never call ourselves British Irish. The problem we have as London-Irish (as I prefer to call myself), is that although we feel Irish, we are not accepted as Irish due to our English accents. Ironically I was called a Plastic Paddy for supporting the Republic of Ireland during the 1990's by Irish born Dubliners in a pub. I then pointed out that Tony Cascarino and John Aldridge were also born in England so they must be Plastic Paddies too then. You see its not about calling yourself Irish, or feeling Irish; its about whether you are accepted by Irish born as being Irish.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

No.
I am talking about second generation Irish living in Dundalk.
People that were born outside of Ireland to Irish parents.
This has nothing to do with helping our economy.

That's not the definition of 2nd generation Irish!!:rolleyes:

locum-motion

Briella Thousands Tollbooth wrote: »

That's not the definition of 2nd generation Irish!!:rolleyes:

Guess who didn't read the rest the thread before replying!
😄