Discovery of headless stags leads to increase in patrols

doctor evil

Page number two in todays Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1111/1224307372607.html

THE NATIONAL Parks and Wildlife Service has stepped up night patrols after the discovery of a beheaded red stag, a protected animal, in the Killarney area at the weekend.

The discovery of the stag near Loo Bridge is the fifth wild deer carcass to have been found in the area in recent weeks. Most of those found have been Sika deer.

However, a sixth deer, a young red stag, had to be put down by wildlife rangers after it was found with multiple bullet holes.

The hunting of red stags is prohibited in Kerry. Licensed hunters have called for greater controls and greater checks. The Kerry Deer Society, credited with bringing native red deer back from the edge of extinction, says it has been told by stalkers that red deer numbers outside Killarney National Park are well down.

The society is calling for a proper deer census so the extent of poaching can be ascertained. It is also warning of a public danger posed by untrained marksmen with high-powered rifles.

Parks and wildlife service regional manager Pat Dawson said it was following “a certain line of inquiry” in relation to the slaughter of the red stag and was awaiting forensic results.

Night patrols were a feature of this time of year, up to and after the rutting or mating season, when the deer were on lower ground and were most vulnerable, he said. These had now been stepped up in the wider Kerry-Cork region.

Kerry Deer Society chairman Noel Grimes said those poaching were poor marksmen. The wounded stag which had to be put down had received bullets in its neck, shoulder and hind legs.

Bullets travelled long distances and there was “a real threat to person and to property”.

“They tell us the number of reds especially are way down in regions away from the national park,” Mr Grimes said. “Trophy hunters” – poachers seeking antlers – were at work, he added, asking the public to report any activity to the Garda or wildlife rangers.

Spannerman7

This is well beyond a joke now, there needs to be urgent action to stamp out this poaching. I think tagging would be a positive step and propper fines if cought with an untagged beast, not €250, more like €5K and never hold a firearms cert again. Any dealer with untagged deer should be shut down.
It makes me :mad: and whats worse is when I go lamping foxes I now feel like I'm doing something wrong or going to get hassle or reported for poaching.

johngalway

Spannerman7 wrote: »

and whats worse is when I go lamping foxes I now feel like I'm doing something wrong or going to get hassle or reported for poaching.

You're doing nothing wrong at all. But, I do have sympathy for the second part of that comment.

The lads at this craic are, besides acting completely illegally, generating way too much negative publicity for shooting in general and need to be reported.

Cass

Start rant.

The above is yet another story about a topic we all know only too well. The problem is not hunters/stalkers actions, opinions, views. It's those in authority. We could all report every incident we see, witness, etc, but thats feck all use when the departments responsible either cannot or do no act on those reports.

I mean either the departments are underfunded or under staffed, and cannot respond to all the reports, or what looks like the case to me they have no "teeth". By that i mean even when they find those responsible the law is by no means harsh enough to discourage them, and if left with their firearms they can recover their losses within a couple of weeks.

Then there are the rare cases that are actioned, and people prosecuted. In the best case scenarios the people involved get a small fine, and possibly a loss of firearms (if only for a while). The normal case is nothing is done, and the majority of poachers are never caught or prosecuted. I mean i doubt if there are any stalkers out there that cannot name or identify at least one lad poaching. I know two. One that a few years ago lost his firearms, but now is back shooting and i mean shooting. Large quantities all year (under license), but still it proves my point. I could say something about the other one, but i like my house and don't want to loose it in a defamation suit.

Spannerman7 wrote: »

I think tagging would be a positive step and propper fines if cought with an untagged beast, not €250, more like €5K and never hold a firearms cert again. Any dealer with untagged deer should be shut down.

All valid suggestions, but the issue still remains that when money is involved people's principals go out the window. I'd love to see a more regulated system, but again not one drawn up by a suit behind a desk. I used to work with a lad. Youngest manager in the companies history. Told me one day that it takes 1.75 hours to drive from Dublin North to Cork. Why? Because the computer programme said it can be done. Same here. We need a group/committee made up of highly experienced stalkers, game dealers, etc that can guide and direct those involved in drafting legislation, rules, etc so that it makes it harder for the poschers, while not punishing the stalker.

It makes me :mad: and whats worse is when I go lamping foxes I now feel like I'm doing something wrong or going to get hassle or reported for poaching.

Recently i've seen, and heard an increase in the number of lads telling me that they are being reported when out lamping. One lad was told be a few locals that he is breaking the law by lamping foxes. Thats why they report him. So i know where you're coming from.

johngalway wrote: »

You're doing nothing wrong at all. But, I do have sympathy for the second part of that comment.

+1.


Honestly this has been going on for decades. Thats not an excuse its a fact. The other fact is the system only works when those that report the misdeeds of others have confidence not only in the fact that their reports are being taken seriously, but acted upon. Also confidence in the people involved in supposedly representing stalkers. Lastly confidence in the system itself. To see lads being done for poaching, when they are actually caught, and to see them back within a few months, ayear or two years is completely disheartening, and makes the rest of us wonder why we do things on the up and up when others seem to do as they please unchecked.

End rant.

Longranger

I'd love to see these bastards nailed, fined 100k and banned for life from firearm ownership,but it aint gonna happen with this shower of clowns in the driving seat! I mean honestly,can we really expect these kind of penalties for something as minor(in their eyes by the way, not mine) as poaching, when you can kill a person with your car and be back on the road a year later!
This "justice" system is far too lenient,and needs to be overhauled big time so there can be a real deterrent to those who knowingly break the law for profit(or any other reason for that matter). As I am far from the most experienced shooter here, is there anything we can do about it as a community, we need to do something FFS, not just talk about it and whinge about it. We solve to many of our problems in the pub,and never get anywhere,so is there anything we CAN do which might have realistic possibilites? Sorry, I'm shutting up now. LR

willcork

I was reading something in a magazine recently by mike yardley and in the states you get your hunting license and get some tags.
If you are caught with a carcass or if a dealer has a carcass on his premesis without a tag the penalties are very severe. But coupled with this system is active enforcement of the law without which any system is pointless.
As i see it we all pay in to nargc or ca or some other group, they should be lobbying for a change to the system

syconerd

lads lads if we're hunters maybe what we should be doing is do a bit of hunting with our cameras and help the wildlife service.
first off we should go out and patrol these woods for a few weeks when we think they would be out hunting we could be there for a night without your guns go with a mate and get details of these people shooting there car reg everything.
give these details to the relevent athorities and hope they act upon the facts if we dont do it then nobody will and we will be tarnished by the actions of a couple of bad shooters.
If found to be members of any shooting orgainisation then they need to take action on them.
if we dont stop it now then all will lose out in the long run.

Builderfromhell

Don't mean to suggest that poaching is a minor issue but what is the difference between a licenced shooter with permissions shooting 10 or more deer a week and a poacher who may go into a Coillte forest and shoot one deer.

Longranger

I can't believe I'm going to dignify that statement with an answer, but you answered your own question anyway. LICENCED SHOOTER! For feck sake, if you pay the sometimes insane cost to earn the right to go stalking you are entitled to shoot deer, just cos a poacher shoots one or two it doesn't make him less of a poacher! That's like saying a guy who robs only one shop is the same as the guy who buys stuff in ten shops! No offense intended, but your attitude is why poachers get away with so much. They think "ah, sure if I only shoot a couple nobody will miss them" and the legitimate Hunter who pays hundreds,often thousands of euro,gets FCUKED! it's hard enough to hunt in this country without people thinking like that FFS!

Tackleberrywho

I'm going to throw a real clanger now.

Is it possible lease holders with Forest Gate Keys are lamping by night :eek:

As how else are they getting into the forests, local reports from Wickla tell me they see lads driving THROUGH the forests by night.

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I'm going to throw a real clanger now.

Is it possible lease holders with Forest Gate Keys are lamping by night :eek:

As how else are they getting into the forests, local reports from Wickla tell me they see lads driving THROUGH the forests by night.

Don't know about other gates but there's a forestry gate near me that I have seen opened with a roof rail from a particular van. If they're all like that then who needs a key.

jingojonson

I actually agree with builder from hell, if you have a license but are shooting too many deer you'll do damage to the numbers.

I've read people on these boards talking of the hundreds of deer they've taken, some moderation might go a long way.

snipeface

Spannerman7 wrote: »

This is well beyond a joke now, there needs to be urgent action to stamp out this poaching. I think tagging would be a positive step and propper fines if cought with an untagged beast, not €250, more like €5K and never hold a firearms cert again. Any dealer with untagged deer should be shut down.
It makes me :mad: and whats worse is when I go lamping foxes I now feel like I'm doing something wrong or going to get hassle or reported for poaching.

Re the fox lamping : Have to say i know exactly how you feel. Especially in the past couple of years i'v started feeling very edgy when out at night with the lamp.

Builderfromhell

syconerd wrote: »

lads lads if we're hunters maybe what we should be doing is do a bit of hunting with our cameras and help the wildlife service.
first off we should go out and patrol these woods for a few weeks when we think they would be out hunting we could be there for a night without your guns go with a mate and get details of these people shooting there car reg everything.
give these details to the relevent athorities and hope they act upon the facts if we dont do it then nobody will and we will be tarnished by the actions of a couple of bad shooters.
If found to be members of any shooting orgainisation then they need to take action on them.
if we dont stop it now then all will lose out in the long run.

When I have time I drive up the hills to see if there are poachers about. I had read on a different thread here that East Clare has a serious poaching problem and I'd like to discourage them.
I've yet to meet any and it's scary to think what I would do if I came across a few guys in a couple of 4x4s up a lonely hill road.
I have, on two occasions, come across forestry barriers that have been pulled over. These are not easy to break and it looks to me like they may have used a winch to pull the barriers down. Can't see why anyone other than poachers would do that.

Longranger

Like you said, it could be a dodgy situation to meet certain type up a dark forestry road late at night,especially when they are breaking the law AND are carrying rifles:eek: just think twice besfore approaching them!