Countries sub 2.10 marathon runners

thirstywork2

A list of countries that have at least five native-born men who have run sub-2:10 on an unaided course. The average of the top five is given after the country. Amazing how many have broken 2.10 now.Taken from letsrun.com

1. Kenya - 2:04:11
2:03:38 - Patrick Makau Berlin 2011
2:03:42 - Wilson Kipsang Frankfurt 2011
2:04:27 - Duncan Kibet Rotterdam 2009
2:04:27 - James Kwambai Rotterdam 2009
2:04:40 - Emmanuel Mutai London 2011

2. Ethiopia - 2:05:10
2:03:59 - Haile Gebrselassie Berlin 2008
2:05:18 - Tsegaye Kebede Fukuoka 2009
2:05:23 - Lelisa Feyisa Rotterdam 2010
2:05:25 - Bazu Worku Berlin 2010
2:05:44 - Getu Feleke Amsterdam 2010

3. Morocco - 2:06:02
2:05:27 - Jaouad Gharib London 2009
2:05:30 - Abderrahim Goumri London 2008
2:05:38 - Khalid Khannouchi London 2002 (changed to US citizenship)
2:06:46 - Abdelkader El Mouaziz Chicago 2002
2:06:48 - Rachid Kisri Paris 2009

4. Japan - 2:06:58
2:06:16 - Toshinari Takaoka Chicago 2002
2:06:51 - Atsushi Fujita Fukuoka 2000
2:06:57 - Takayuki Inubushi Berlin 1999
2:07:13 - Atsushi Sato Fukuoka 2007
2:07:35 - Taisuke Kodama Beijing 1986

5. South Africa - 2:07:14
2:06:33 - Gert Thys Tokyo 1999
2:06:55 - Hendrick Ramaala London 2006
2:07:06 - Ian Syster London 2002
2:07:28 - Josiah Thugwane Fukuoka 1997
2:08:07 - David Tsebe Berlin 1992

6. Spain - 2:07:28
2:06:52 - Julio Rey Hamburg 2006
2:07:23 - Fabian Roncero Rotterdam 1999
2:07:34 - Antonio Pena Lake Biwa 2001
2:07:42 - Jose Rios Lake Biwa 2004
2:07:48 - Francisco Javier Cortes Hamburg 2001

7. Portugal - 2:07:49
2:06:36 - Antonio Pinto London 2000
2:07:12 - Carlos Lopes Rotterdam 1985
2:07:51 - Domingos Castro Rotterdam 1997
2:08:33 - Manuel Matias Kyongju 1994
2:08:55 - Luis Jesus Paris 2006

8. Brazil - 2:07:56
2:06:05 - Ronaldo da Costa Berlin 1998
2:06:34 - Marilson dos Santos London 2011
2:08:31 - Vanderlei Cordeiro de Lima Tokyo 1998
2:08:55 - Luiz Antônio dos Santos Rotterdam 1997
2:09:36 - Eder Moreno Fialho Chicago 1999

9. Eritrea - 2:08:01
2:07:27 - Yared Asmeron Chunchon 2011
2:07:28 - Samuel Tsegay Tesfemariam Amsterdam 2011
2:07:34 - Yonas Kifle Amsterdam 2007
2:08:13 - Yared Dagnaw Sharew Eindhoven 2010
2:09:24 - Abraham Tadesse Berlin 2010

10. Italy - 2:08:08
2:07:22 - Stefano Baldini London 2006
2:07:52 - Giacome Leone Lake Biwa 2001
2:08:02 - Albercio Di Cecco Rome 2005
2:08:33 - Danilo Goffi Rotterdam 1998
2:08:49 - Francesco Ingargiola Roma 2000

11. South Korea - 2:08:15
2:07:20 - Lee Bong Ju Tokyo 2000
2:07:49 - Kim Yi Yong Rotterdam 1999
2:08:30 - Ji Young Joon Daegu 2009
2:08:47 - Hwang Young Cho Beppu-Oita 1992
2:08:49 - Baek Seung Do Tokyo 2000

12. Great Britain - 2:08:28
2:07:13 - Steve Jones Chicago 1985
2:08:33 - Charlie Spedding London 1985
2:08:36 - Richard Nerurkar London 1997
2:08:52 - Paul Evans Chicago 1996
2:09:08 - Geoff Smith New York 1983

13. Tanzania - 2:08:28
2:08:01 - Juma Ikangaa New York 1989
2:08:01 - Samson Ramdhani London 2003
2:08:32 - Gidamis Shahanga Berlin 1990
2:08:51 - Zebedaiyo Bayo New York 1998
2:08:57 - John Nada Saya Milan 2001

14. Mexico - 2:08:56
2:08:30 - Dionisio Ceron London 1995
2:08:46 - Andres Espinoza Berlin 2003
2:08:57 - Alejandro Cruz Chicago 1988
2:09:12 - Rodolfo Gomez Tokyo 1983
2:09:14 - Isidro Rico Kyongju 1994

15 - U.S.A. - 2:08:57
2:06:17 - Ryan Hall London 2008
2:09:32 - David Morris Chicago 1999
2:09:35 - Jerry Lawson Chicago 1997
2:09:38 - Ken Martin New York 1989
2:09:41 - Alan Culpepper Chicago 2002

16. Germany - 2:09:23
2:08:47 - Jorg Peter Tokyo 1988
2:09:03 - Michael Heilmann Hiroshima 1985
2:09:23 - Christophe Herle London 1985
2:09:45 - Stephen Freigang Berlin 1990
2:09:55 - Waldemar Cierpinski Montreal 1976

17. Russia - 2:09:25
2:09:07 - Aleksey Sokolov Dublin 2007
2:09:16 - Leonid Shvetsov Prague 1997
2:09:17 - Yakov Tolstikov London 1991
2:09:32 - Dmitriy Kapitonov Eindhoven 1999
2:09:54 - Aleksey Reunkov Frankfurt 2011

gerard65

Oddly many of the non-african times were set years ago. It shows just because an athlete is not from africa they could most likely be competive today. Why their not? that seens to be the question.

ThePiedPiper

The times for the UK are especially interesting I thought. There isn't anybody even in the same ball park as what Jones and Spedding were running in the 80s.

There's an interesting theory I read recently that most of the good runners in western countries would be attracted into the more mainstream sports, such as soccer, rugby, cricket, etc. In East Africa, any half decent young athlete is attracted to running. In Ireland/UK/Europe, any half decent young athlete is playing GAA/soccer/basketball or whatever.

Money is the reason why there are so many top class Kenyan athletes now. Conversely, money is also the reason there are relatively less westerners capable of running the times that were being done in the 70s and 80s. For all we know, the likes of Theo Walcott could have had the potential for being a 2.06 marathoner. Or the countless other young lads who got lured by money into soccer only to fall away from it in their late teens. There's no money in athletics unless you're in the top tier of probably 50 people in Ireland?

gerard65

There was money in soccer in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's when there was little or no money in athletics, apart from maybe a period in the 80's. I really believe that there is too much science in athletics in 'western countries' and most have forgotten that to be good you have to firstly run. Now, athletes are like guinea pigs -daily bloodtests, ice chambers, VOMax testing, blab, blab, blab. To much wrapping up in cotton wool, just run.

ThePiedPiper

Yes, there's some money now but I'm really talking about what the young talented athletes see when they're between 13 and 17. A running career where even if you reach close to the top of your game in Ireland or the UK, you'll never even make top 10 in the Dublin or any other mid sized marathon. For example, the winners of the Dublin marathon Race series might pick up 200 or 300 euro. A top runner in Ireland might, if they have a fantastic season, pick up 1,000 in prize money. It'll barely cover the cost of the runners for the year!

Or turn your attention to soccer where you'll make some sort of a living. Multiply that by 1,000 for what's happening in the UK. I'd imagine a lot of the top US sprinters are probably playing in the NFL having made some sort of similar decision in their teens to make a career out of their talent.

The East Africans on the other hand have 100s of athletes making big money all over the world running. It's probably easier to win the Dublin marathon than the Iten 10k fun run! You can see why every youngster in Kenya would turn to running. The next Makau or Mutai or Mosop is already running in Kenya. In Ireland, the next John Tracey is probably playing hurling or has been drafted by some NPower Championship team. Maybe.

robinph

Only Kenya, Ethiopia and Eritrea seem to have all of their top five times set in the last 5 years. Everywhere else is living off past glories.

Not exactly sure it is just the cold hard cash that gets people interested. Seeing things on telly will get the kids interested in the western world, money is not really much of an incentive for kids and their dreams for the future.

ThePiedPiper

robinph wrote: »

Only Kenya, Ethiopia and Eritrea seem to have all of their top five times set in the last 5 years. Everywhere else is living off past glories.

Not exactly sure it is just the cold hard cash that gets people interested. Seeing things on telly will get the kids interested in the western world, money is not really much of an incentive for kids and their dreams for the future.

But, what do kids see of the DCM, London only a bunch of East Africans tearing up the course records and then a bit of Marty Morrissey or John Inverdale over on the BBC talking to people dressed up as Mickey Mouse. Get into that or get into the glamour of soccer, the GAA (yes, I know there's no official money being earned), rugby where we can sometimes compete with the best in the world.

It's a viscous circle. We could badly do with a Tracey, Sonia or Catriona again.

robinph

RunForestRun wrote: »

robinph wrote: »

Only Kenya, Ethiopia and Eritrea seem to have all of their top five times set in the last 5 years. Everywhere else is living off past glories.

Not exactly sure it is just the cold hard cash that gets people interested. Seeing things on telly will get the kids interested in the western world, money is not really much of an incentive for kids and their dreams for the future.

But, what do kids see of the DCM, London only a bunch of East Africans tearing up the course records and then a bit of Marty Morrissey or John Inverdale over on the BBC talking to people dressed up as Mickey Mouse. Get into that or get into the glamour of soccer, the GAA (yes, I know there's no official money being earned), rugby where we can sometimes compete with the best in the world.

It's a viscous circle. We could badly do with a Tracey, Sonia or Catriona again.

We need more of Jess Ennis on telly and that will make everyone happy.

thirstywork2

RunForestRun wrote: »

For example, the winners of the Dublin marathon Race series might pick up 200 or 300 euro. A top runner in Ireland might, if they have a fantastic season, pick up 1,000 in prize money. It'll barely cover the cost of the runners for the year!

Disagree with you here,
the likes of Sergiu or Alan O shea are making anthing from 3-7grand easy a year.
But the prize money is poor in comparison to other sports.Most race organisers don't care about prize funds.or example the tallaght ac 5miler was advertised as a 3 thousand euro prize fund and the winner got 200 or 300 euro
Money though isn't the reason why standards are down though.

ecoli

thirstywork2 wrote: »

RunForestRun wrote: »

For example, the winners of the Dublin marathon Race series might pick up 200 or 300 euro. A top runner in Ireland might, if they have a fantastic season, pick up 1,000 in prize money. It'll barely cover the cost of the runners for the year!

Disagree with you here,
the likes of Sergiu or Alan O shea are making anthing from 3-7grand easy a year.
But the prize money is poor in comparison to other sports.Most race organisers don't care about prize funds.or example the tallaght ac 5miler was advertised as a 3 thousand euro prize fund and the winner got 200 or 300 euro
Money though isn't the reason why standards are down though.

As far as I remember it was 2000, you have to remember though a prize fund like that includes 1st, 2nd, 3rd male and female teams (prize x4) as well as category prizes (Junior right through to Overaged categories so very well. when you see prize funds for other sports it usually goes to the winning team. The dilute of categories means that there is often large prize fund used to cover minimal prizes

London 2017 is an example of this where there is 7.2 million of a prize fund approx yet with all the disciplines means that winning will not earn you as much as some Championship players are making in a month.

Hopefully the IAAF would be able to match London's prize fund in order to help this somewhat but can't see it happening

Money may not be the reason that standards are down however in modern society you can be sure that it is one way to remedy the situation unfortunately

robinph

Money will determine what race you might want to try and enter to get the best return for your time.

The real issue to get more stronger, faster, higher people into the sport is making it interesting to kids to just get more of them involved. They don't give a damn about money, they just want to do something fun and as athletics is competing against the xbox it is a tough one to win. Money may be an earlier motivating factor in the lives of Kenyans, but that is just so that they can buy those playstations for their whole village.

They will have been doing the running for years out of necessity though as a means of getting between A and B. Western kids means of transport is sitting in the back of a car. Make them walk and cycle, keep them generally fitter, get them more involved in sports at school or out of school. Then more decent sports people will emerge later on and only then will they be bothered about how much cash they can win.

More prize money for local runners than for the internationals that come over to run marathons is a good idea in keeping the current crop of decent athletes interested and able to support themselves. It's not going to make any difference to those just starting out though.

SeanKenny

RunForestRun wrote: »

It's a viscous circle. We could badly do with a Tracey, Sonia or Catriona again.

We have one. His name is Ciaran O'Lionaird

http://www.mad-len.com/

ecoli

robinph wrote: »

Money will determine what race you might want to try and enter to get the best return for your time.

The real issue to get more stronger, faster, higher people into the sport is making it interesting to kids to just get more of them involved. They don't give a damn about money, they just want to do something fun and as athletics is competing against the xbox it is a tough one to win. Money may be an earlier motivating factor in the lives of Kenyans, but that is just so that they can buy those playstations for their whole village.

They will have been doing the running for years out of necessity though as a means of getting between A and B. Western kids means of transport is sitting in the back of a car. Make them walk and cycle, keep them generally fitter, get them more involved in sports at school or out of school. Then more decent sports people will emerge later on and only then will they be bothered about how much cash they can win.

More prize money for local runners than for the internationals that come over to run marathons is a good idea in keeping the current crop of decent athletes interested and able to support themselves. It's not going to make any difference to those just starting out though.

I dont think it is the number of younger ones that is the main issue but rather the fall off in the teenage years which are vital for development of an athlete. If however teenagers saw running as a viable career this could persuade some to continue.

Much like the mindset of football in terms of "ok there is sacrafice but if I make it I am set for life" athletes will never have that luxury as the financial security of this sport is simply not there

Pisco Sour

The Africans have taken the event to a new level that the Europeans simply cannot replicate. The advantage of living your life at altitude is something that cannot be downplayed. I'd say a part of the reason standards have decreased in the likes of the UK is probably due to people not believing they can compete with the best (which is correct to be honest!) and therefore perhaps chosing to go into other events in athletics from an early age that they feel they may have a better chance at.

You can't put in what God left out. The Africans are genetically superior over the marathon discipline and always will be, and only a complete freak from a Western country will compete against them. Of course, no athlete should think like this. If you do, then you are beaten from the start. But I'd suspect many talented marathon runners out there have already done just that and probably respect and fear them too much, which makes an already near-impossible task, that much more difficult.

RoyMcC

04072511 wrote: »

You can't put in what God left out. The Africans are genetically superior over the marathon discipline and always will be, and only a complete freak from a Western country will compete against them

Altitude, attitude, opportunity, desire, training methods, lifestyle, a critical mass of like-minded athletes - these are all very valid and true reasons why the East Africans are dominant.

The genetics question is far from proven though.