The truth about lapdancing clubs

dublogic

I noticed a trend among some of the male boardsies to be completely dismissive about any objections that people have to lap dancing clubs and how they denigrate women so I'm posting the following - not that men like that will really give a f but I'm posting anyway just to advertise that as a man I think that their attitude is bull and the following article underscores that:

here are a few highlight from the article :

"The often-rehearsed idea that lap-dancing can be empowering, or make women feel beautiful is nonsense, says Danns, when explicit insults are common. Nearly half of lap-dancers in the Leeds study reported frequent verbal harrassment and unwanted touching. "They call you names, comment on your body, or your cellulite, and certainly [I know] from other women's experiences, comment on your genitalia saying 'that's big'," Danns says. "How can you raise your self esteem through that? If you are going to take the compliments you have to take the insults."






http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/10/truth-lap-dancer-clubs

petes

I like lapdancing clubs!

phasers

In America they serve great wings.

Sykk

That was just too hard to read.. Sorry

Lord TSC

I'd never argue that lapdancing doesn't degrade women. Just that (those who get into it voluntarily) know that the objectification is part of the job. Its literally the point of the lapdance...

JCDUB

Hmmm, I don't for a second believe all that "empowering" bullshit, but neither do I believe that this is a career path that most dancers don't have a choice in.

If they don't like it, they can leave (for the most part, if they work in legal and licensed clubs), unlike illegally trafficked prostitutes who usually don't have a choice.

Like any career, if it doesn't make you happy or you don't like it, you should leave.

mathie

Lapdancing doesn't degrade women.

Bullets do.

orourkeda

We all know that sexual desires and impulses are the most powerful human urges.

This will never change. Consequently the sex industry will never die

AnonoBoy

Never been to one myself.

If I want to sit on my hands and be sexually frustrated I can do that at home for free.

Fratton Fred

Forget about Lapdancing clubs, I want to know the truth about Golf Weekends.

They sound great.

Shenshen

I never understood how it "lapdancing/pron/whathaveyou is degrading women".
What other women choose do to earn money doesn't degrade me, sorry.

I've worked as a cleaner in a hospital and as an escort while at university, and I have to say the cleaning was by far the more degrading experience. Not because of the filth, but because of the way people treat you.

AnonoBoy

Shenshen wrote: »

I never understood how it "lapdancing/pron/whathaveyou is degrading women".
What other women choose do to earn money doesn't degrade me, sorry.

I've worked as a cleaner in a hospital and as an escort while at university, and I have to say the cleaning was by far the more degrading experience. Not because of the filth, but because of the way people treat you.

Were you an escort or an "escort" or is there even a difference?

stovelid

Degradation and objectification can be distasteful but ultimately the choice of the women involved.

If real coercion is involved, then I oppose it. And I don't accept that poverty (in the sense that poverty exists in so-called first world society like ours) or - even more laughably - the cost of third-level education qualifies as a genuine coercive factor in lap-dancing or even prostitution.

As for the thesis that some of the women involved are psychologically damaged or suffer from addiction, you are in problematic territory as you could just easily categorize a sexual relationship with such a person - or indeed accepting a non-sexual service from them in an underpaid job - as exploitation.

The fact is that people just have a visceral dislike of the fact that women are selling their bodies - to some extent - even willingly, and sadly: doing so of your own volition in a first-world country is not morally wrong.

I don't think many women think (voluntary) lap-dancing is empowering and the assertion seems misleading. I just assume they are doing it for easy money.

28064212

I go to work drunk all the time, I have a bit of a drinking problem. My boss is mean to me, my workmates are worse, the customers are incredibly ignorant, have even had them call me names. Unfortunately, I need the money, so I can't quit.

So we're going to ban clothes stores, right?

al28283

eh, yea. That's pretty much the job they signed on for

Mr Benevolent

dublogic wrote: »

I noticed a trend among some of the male boardsies to be completely dismissive about any objections that people have to lap dancing clubs and how they denigrate women so I'm posting the following - not that men like that will really give a f but I'm posting anyway just to advertise that as a man I think that their attitude is bull and the following article underscores that:

here are a few highlight from the article :

"The often-rehearsed idea that lap-dancing can be empowering, or make women feel beautiful is nonsense, says Danns, when explicit insults are common. Nearly half of lap-dancers in the Leeds study reported frequent verbal harrassment and unwanted touching. "They call you names, comment on your body, or your cellulite, and certainly [I know] from other women's experiences, comment on your genitalia saying 'that's big'," Danns says. "How can you raise your self esteem through that? If you are going to take the compliments you have to take the insults."






http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/10/truth-lap-dancer-clubs

Admit it, you're trying to get female Boardsies to consider you a feminist so you can get a shag.

hatrickpatrick

Unless someone's being forced to work in them against their will, it's ok. Consenting adults, freedom of choice. I wouldn't want to work in a place like that therefore I wouldn't, nor would I visit one. I, however, have no right whatsoever to tell adults what to choose to do with their own lives and their own bodies - and neither does anyone else.

Wertz

Insurgent wrote: »

I like lapdancing clubs!

I hope you're not basing that solely on Whispers...what a kip.

Dudess

Depends on the establishment - those customers are dickheads and the club should have a policy of prohibiting that kind of behaviour.
I've no doubt there are clubs where the women are treated well and don't have to put up with any harassment from customers, but also clubs where the women are treated badly - by management and customers. And "They know what they're letting themselves in for" is a cop-out.

As an art-form though, I don't see a problem with it - and would try it myself if I had the body and lived in a big city that's not in Ireland. :pac:
Objectification, degradation - meh, once the women have choice and control, I don't think these apply (well technically it is objecification, but as someone said earlier, that's its sole purpose). The female body is many things, one of them sexual - I don't see a problem with the woman herself taking advantage of this for monetary gain.

Doing a private dance must be very embarrassing though - I'd have to be really drunk to do it.

Snakeblood

dublogic wrote: »

I noticed a trend among some of the male boardsies to be completely dismissive about any objections that people have to lap dancing clubs and how they denigrate women so I'm posting the following - not that men like that will really give a f but I'm posting anyway just to advertise that as a man I think that their attitude is bull and the following article underscores that:

here are a few highlight from the article :

"The often-rehearsed idea that lap-dancing can be empowering, or make women feel beautiful is nonsense, says Danns, when explicit insults are common. Nearly half of lap-dancers in the Leeds study reported frequent verbal harrassment and unwanted touching. "They call you names, comment on your body, or your cellulite, and certainly [I know] from other women's experiences, comment on your genitalia saying 'that's big'," Danns says. "How can you raise your self esteem through that? If you are going to take the compliments you have to take the insults."






http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/10/truth-lap-dancer-clubs

I went to a lapdancing club for my brother's stag and from my perspective, the women had more power in the situation than the men. They chose who they wanted to go after, they were free to reject whoever, and anyone who wanted to cause trouble instantly found themselves surrounded by men who displaced a large amount of water when submerged. It was actually like going to a hotel where you get a cheap room as long as you get the pressurising sales pitch to buy a room, except the room isn't actually for sale, you can't take a picture of the room or they break your thumbs. The room just rubs up and down against you then leaves while you say 'that was never three minutes'.

That disregards any possible pressure women had to get into that particular line of work. I don't know about that.

Spunge

Hey if you don't like it, maybe you should have thought of that before you became a whore.

stovelid

Spunge wrote: »

Hey if you don't like it, maybe you should have thought of that before you became a whore.

Your sensitivity is touching.

deisedave

dublogic wrote: »

I noticed a trend among some of the male boardsies to be completely dismissive about any objections that people have to lap dancing clubs and how they denigrate women so I'm posting the following - not that men like that will really give a f but I'm posting anyway just to advertise that as a man I think that their attitude is bull and the following article underscores that:

here are a few highlight from the article :

"The often-rehearsed idea that lap-dancing can be empowering, or make women feel beautiful is nonsense, says Danns, when explicit insults are common. Nearly half of lap-dancers in the Leeds study reported frequent verbal harrassment and unwanted touching. "They call you names, comment on your body, or your cellulite, and certainly [I know] from other women's experiences, comment on your genitalia saying 'that's big'," Danns says. "How can you raise your self esteem through that? If you are going to take the compliments you have to take the insults."






http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/nov/10/truth-lap-dancer-clubs

I have known a few lap dancers as friends personally, they all choose to do it for money. If you are a lap dancer getting touched when grinding on someone now and again is a hazard of the job, If you are not comfortable with someone commenting on your body that is the wrong line of work for you.


I have attended strip clubs before and I will prolly again, If girls want to strip for money let them. If they want to raise their self esteem get a job that is not stripping lol

mikom

dublogic wrote: »

I noticed a trend among some of the male boardsies to be completely dismissive about any objections that people have to lap dancing clubs and how they denigrate women so I'm posting the following - not that men like that will really give a f but I'm posting anyway just to advertise that as a man I think that their attitude is bull and the following article underscores that:

here are a few highlight from the article :

"The often-rehearsed idea that lap-dancing can be empowering, or make women feel beautiful is nonsense, says Danns, when explicit insults are common. Nearly half of lap-dancers in the Leeds study reported frequent verbal harrassment and unwanted touching. "They call you names, comment on your body, or your cellulite, and certainly [I know] from other women's experiences, comment on your genitalia saying 'that's big'," Danns says. "How can you raise your self esteem through that? If you are going to take the compliments you have to take the insults."

"The often-rehearsed idea that serving fast food can be empowering, or make women feel beautiful is nonsense, says Danns, when explicit insults are common.
Nearly half of fast food employees in the Leeds study reported frequent verbal harrassment and unwanted orders. "They call you names, comment on your burger, or your chicken dippers, and certainly [I know] from other women's experiences, comment on your fries saying 'that's super size',"

Danns says. "How can you raise your self esteem through that? If you are going to take the compliments you have to take the insults."

Lapdancers, go work in McDonalds if your job is such a drag.

right, because so many other jobs are empowering


i doubt anyone thinks it's all sunshine and rainbows but some want the money and if they choose it, they choose it. it should be up to them.

Paparazzo

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Never been to one myself.

If I want to sit on my hands and be sexually frustrated I can do that at home for free.

As Karl Pilkington said, it's like going to a great restaurant, ordering a gorgeous meal, waiter putting it in front of you but you're not allowed eat it.

seamus

Been to Lapello once on a stag. It's an odd experience. For a start you're surrounded by insanely hot women wearing very few clothes. So that's awesome. But everything else about it is weird.

As a man you spend a lot of time training yourself not to stare at women's body parts, and instead do it surreptitiously, but in the club it's expected and OK. So it takes a few minutes to retrain your brain in that regard.

Then you have these insanely hot women coming up to you, talking and flirting with you, putting their arms around you. It's a nice thing to happen, but you know underneath it that it's all a hollow attempt to extract money from your wallet. It gives you a glimpse into what it must be like to be a big celebrity or very rich - makes you feel nice and important for a while but ultimately empty and vacuous.

I saw no reason to feel sorry for any of the women. They walking around with men dragging their tongues on the floor, practically throwing money at them. The environment they're in is perfectly safe and they always have the option to walk away and go home if they don't like it. Most of the people who talk about exploitation and humiliation are the kind of people who think, "I would hate that job, therefore nobody could tolerate it, it's inhumane".

I didn't pay for a dance. Seemed entirely odd to pay €40 to get a hot woman to dance in front of me for 10 minutes. Especially considering that I would then go home and curl up beside my wife. Just. Odd.
I paid €5 for a bottle of beer, waited for the other lads to get their dances and enjoyed the view.

texidub

No strippers I've known liked the job (twas just for the money.. like most people in most jobs, really).. BUT God help any guy that f*cked with them, seriously. After the guy removed the stiletto from their arse they had the management to deal with and probably good hiding out back. I think it comes down the management in these places really --some will look after their staff and some won't.

As for the exploitation: it's a world of users and used (and not divided along strict gender lines either)

Corvo

seamus wrote: »

Been to Lapello once on a stag. It's an odd experience. For a start you're surrounded by insanely hot women wearing very few clothes. So that's awesome. But everything else about it is weird.

As a man you spend a lot of time training yourself not to stare at women's body parts, and instead do it surreptitiously, but in the club it's expected and OK. So it takes a few minutes to retrain your brain in that regard.

Then you have these insanely hot women coming up to you, talking and flirting with you, putting their arms around you. It's a nice thing to happen, but you know underneath it that it's all a hollow attempt to extract money from your wallet. It gives you a glimpse into what it must be like to be a big celebrity or very rich - makes you feel nice and important for a while but ultimately empty and vacuous.

I saw no reason to feel sorry for any of the women. They walking around with men dragging their tongues on the floor, practically throwing money at them. The environment they're in is perfectly safe and they always have the option to walk away and go home if they don't like it. Most of the people who talk about exploitation and humiliation are the kind of people who think, "I would hate that job, therefore nobody could tolerate it, it's inhumane".

I didn't pay for a dance. Seemed entirely odd to pay €40 to get a hot woman to dance in front of me for 10 minutes. Especially considering that I would then go home and curl up beside my wife. Just. Odd.
I paid €5 for a bottle of beer, waited for the other lads to get their dances and enjoyed the view.

Seamus for president! I was going to shout that, but then you said you didnt get a dance. So now you can boil your head

marbless

Lap-dancing clubs operate on the basis of scantily-clad women being served up for men's entertainment, with money changing hands for the illusion of intimacy. Both parties to the transaction are exploited to some extent. Shallow? I think so.

Much more worrying is the notion, referred to in some media reports, that not all dancers are working in clubs voluntarily. That's a human rights issue.

28064212

marbless wrote: »

Lap-dancing clubs operate on the basis of scantily-clad women being served up for men's entertainment, with money changing hands for the illusion of intimacy. Both parties to the transaction are exploited to some extent. Shallow? I think so.

....

marbless wrote: »

Implied nudity is a bit of a cop-out when a babe is earning big bucks to get all her kit off . Readers of men's magazines expect full-frontal nakedness from the girls who pose for them. The sub-title of "Playboy" is Entertainment for Men, and that's what the girls should provide. Thankfully, most of them do.

Some classic pin-up poses are particularly striking. Like when a babe faces the camera with her panties at half-mast (knee level) or fully lowered (warming her ankles). Or when she sprawls on all fours to be photographed from behind, wearing nothing but stockings and high heels.

No pressure, then, Rosanna.....:D

Somewhat of an odd double-standard you've got there

marbless wrote: »

Much more worrying is the notion, referred to in some media reports, that not all dancers are working in clubs voluntarily. That's a human rights issue.

And sometimes people are forced to work in chinese restaurants, or on factory floors, or in construction. Being forced to work against your will is wrong, the industry that it happens to be in is irrelevant

ShadowHearth

I love how it's degrading for woman, but she earns per week about 5xmy weekly wage...

We are talking about lap dancers in those clubs, where it costs 250eu for private dance ( its a dance, not a **** fest, try to touch her and you will be draged out with quite a few missing teeth), not 5 dollar butterfly outside train station in eastern Europe....

dublogic

al28283 wrote: »

eh, yea. That's pretty much the job they signed on for

eh no its not - nobody signs up to get bullied, abused and insulted but unfortunately a minority of punters (aka scumbags) think it is. I have absolutely no issue with strip clubs however I do have an issue with the "nobody forced them to work there so its ok to treat them like ****"

stripping is a job like any other and does not give anyone the right to act like a misogynistic cnut

seamus

dublogic wrote: »

stripping is a job like any other and does not give anyone the right to act like a misogynistic cnut

Right. And that's why they have security staff who will throw you out as soon as you get even a little bit rowdy. One of my mates who lacks self-control after a few pints, couldn't help himself on his first dance, and put his hand on her arse. Out he went. Paid for ten minutes, got 3. They let him back in of course, because he wasn't doing anything stupid. But then he paid for another dance and did exactly the same thing and got thrown out again. Like I say, no self control after a few pints.

But he touched her and he was slung out. So a big scumbag will get away with nothing. Like working in a late-night takeaway, off-licence or 24 hour shop, it is a job where you have a greater risk of encountering a scumbag, and it's up the employer to deal with that. If security's lacking, you walk.

44leto

I wouldn't say these clubs are empowering to women, they certainly can be humiliating, but just like a lot of jobs. I don't think someone working in a call centre being abused by an irate customer feels very empowering. If there is no coercion and its a choice to me that is a job, a job you can do, or for economic reasons have to do, but it is one you can leave as well, its a choice.

I will say this for these clubs, I have being in them for the mandory purposes of a stag party. Fukcing stupid are the only words I can think off, they are expensive, hardly titillating and more frustrating. There is something unnatural about a beautiful woman dancing naked in front of you and you sitting on your hands. The last time at a stag I said no and stayed in the pub with a mate,,and we clicked some real burds.. LOL

marbless

dublogic wrote: »

I do have an issue with the "nobody forced them to work there so its ok to treat them like ****"

Good point. In Munich recently I was brought to a club near the central train station where customers got free "dollar bills" with their entrance fee to tip the stage-show dancers. When these ran out, you paid 1€ each for more "dollar bills."

Most of the guys who sat around the stage were polite when tipping the girls, and they had some fun putting the $ into the dancer's cleavage, the side of her G-string or into the top of her garter. But a few guys just threw lots of tips at the dancers, treating them like circus animals.

HellFireClub

ffs, take it to the c*nts corner, I mean the ladies lounge...

KeithM89_old

HellFireClub wrote: »

ffs, take it to the c*nts corner, I mean the ladies lounge...

Banned

Dudess

HellFireClub wrote: »

ffs, take it to the c*nts corner, I mean the ladies lounge...

Prime example of not reading a thread properly.
And... way to prove one of the OP's points.

Sonics2k

HellFireClub wrote: »

ffs, take it to the c*nts corner, I mean the ladies lounge...

Thank you for taking the male gender back 30 years.

Girls listen up!!! Stay in school, stay off the pole.











Even if he is tiling the bathroom...

THAT BITCH!!!!!!!!

Dudess

I bet there are women who enjoy it - it is a female fantasy - but I guess when it's a job, drudgery takes over.
Must say, I like the idea, but the reality is probably not so great. Pole-dancing classes are really enjoyable.

MagicMarker

I don't see the appeal myself, why would I go to lapdancing club and pay money see near naked ladies when I can do the same myself at home with a pair of binoculars?

Logical Fallacy

I did the door of a lap dancing club for about 3 months. It was good money, but **** me was it ever depressing.

Never threw so many out of a club as i did that place...blokes, booze and birds...it's a bad combo.

recylingbin

meh.
Live and let live or f*ck off and let other people do it.

120_Minutes

Paparazzo wrote: »

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Never been to one myself.

If I want to sit on my hands and be sexually frustrated I can do that at home for free.

As Karl Pilkington said, it's like going to a great restaurant, ordering a gorgeous meal, waiter putting it in front of you but you're not allowed eat it.

That bastard, I've been using that line long before he was on the scene.

3ndahalfof6

they were going to open up a male lap dancing club but they could not get the dancers,

white guys don't bust a move so well,

citytillidie

I have to laugh how its dirty and sleazy for men to go to a lap dancing club, but harmless fun when those male strip groups come to town for the ladies to go wild.

From what i have heard a lot more goes on at them then is ever allowed at a lap dancing club

Canis Lupus

citytillidie wrote: »

I have to laugh how its dirty and sleazy for men to go to a lap dancing club, but harmless fun when those male strip groups come to town for the ladies to go wild.

From what i have heard a lot more goes on at them then is ever allowed at a lap dancing club

That's because us men love being pawed by women. (assuming they're half way good looking)

El Guapo!

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

white guys don't bust a move so well,

You've obviously never seen me after a few pints! :pac:



On a serious note, as has already been said, the girls in lap dancing clubs know the type of job and what it entails. As far as I know they get good money for what they do. That doesn't give anybody the right to abuse them though and it up to the management and security to sort that out.
If the management aren't doing their job properly then the dancer should just leave the job and work elsewhere. There's plenty of respectful clubs out there that they could be happy working in if that's what they want to do.

Johro

seamus wrote: »

Been to Lapello once on a stag. It's an odd experience. For a start you're surrounded by insanely hot women wearing very few clothes. So that's awesome. But everything else about it is weird.

As a man you spend a lot of time training yourself not to stare at women's body parts, and instead do it surreptitiously, but in the club it's expected and OK. So it takes a few minutes to retrain your brain in that regard.

Then you have these insanely hot women coming up to you, talking and flirting with you, putting their arms around you. It's a nice thing to happen, but you know underneath it that it's all a hollow attempt to extract money from your wallet. It gives you a glimpse into what it must be like to be a big celebrity or very rich - makes you feel nice and important for a while but ultimately empty and vacuous.

I saw no reason to feel sorry for any of the women. They walking around with men dragging their tongues on the floor, practically throwing money at them. The environment they're in is perfectly safe and they always have the option to walk away and go home if they don't like it. Most of the people who talk about exploitation and humiliation are the kind of people who think, "I would hate that job, therefore nobody could tolerate it, it's inhumane".

I didn't pay for a dance. Seemed entirely odd to pay €40 to get a hot woman to dance in front of me for 10 minutes. Especially considering that I would then go home and curl up beside my wife. Just. Odd.
I paid €5 for a bottle of beer, waited for the other lads to get their dances and enjoyed the view.

More degrading for men then.;)