Dublin Bus - routes 45, 45a, 84 big changes imminent

bubbagum

The 45a will be going the 45 route when it leaves Bray train station and terminating in Oldcourt.
The 45 to be scrapped.
The 84 will go as normal when it leaves Bray until it gets to Cornelscourt. Then it will turn right and follow the 45 route to Blackrock where it will terminate at the train station. Not going to UCD.
Lot of people are going to be annoyed by these changes,but it is too late to change anything.

the groutch

the 45 has been a dead duck anyway since they cut it back to one every 45 minutes.

bubbagum

45 is standing room only in the morning going to town. 84 the same going to Ucd.

LXFlyer

And where is this information coming from?

bubbagum

lxflyer wrote: »

And where is this information coming from?

The horses mouth!
It's done and dusted.

Stevek101

Any truth in the 25/145 merger

LXFlyer

bubbagum wrote: »

The horses mouth!
It's done and dusted.

I'll ask again what is the source of this information?

Dublin Bus have not mentioned it anywhere in public yet.

We've heard countless rumours before that have turned out to be false. So forgive my questioning someone who has never posted here before when they do post something such as this?

BenShermin

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this were actually true. With the Rock Road/Merrion Road corridor crying out for capacity I could never understand why DB never extended the 45 to Parnell Square to assist the struggling 4 and 7 routes.

The only plausible reason in my mind is that they want the route to fail so that they can scrap more buses under the "cuts" plan.

LXFlyer

I can understand the logic of some of this all right - the 145 and 45a overlap between Ballywaltrim and Bray Main Street, but I certainly think that were it to be true, taking another bus route off the Rock Road would be utter madness of the highest order.

As I said I'm trying to ascertain whether this is a rumour among drivers or whether an official union briefing has taken place.

xper

Sweet Jesus! (assuming its true)

I know it looked like it was on the cards that the 45 route was deliberately being killed off but this whole package looks ridiculous.

The 84 change away from UCD seems particularly weird considering the original Network Direct proposal for a 30-min frequency Co.Wicklow - Luas Cherrywood was ditched under pressure from public reps in Greystones wanting a direct link to UCD maintained.

There will now be an absurd situation where the western and northern half of Bray has a 10-minute frequency direct connection to the city centre and Heuston while the south and east will have feck all buses going nowhere useful.

I don't suppose there is any hope that 45A or 84 frequencies would be improved to compensate smewhat? Yeah, I know the answer!

CIE

bubbagum wrote: »

The horses mouth!
It's done and dusted.

You shouldn't be talking to horses, I think.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I'll ask again what is the source of this information?

Dublin Bus have not mentioned it anywhere in public yet.

We've heard countless rumours before that have turned out to be false. So forgive my questioning someone who has never posted here before when they do post something such as this?

Sadly in spite of protestations from drivers reps this set of Network Direct related "tweaks" will be shortly revealed to a breathless public.

There is a sense of bewilderment internally on this as with a small amount of focused operational thinking these routes could be fashioned into a very workable and potentially attractive Public Transport link to the Bray/Greystones/Newcastle region.

It now seems that Network Direct's potential is turning out to be somewhat more difficult to achieve than originally thought.

This in turn is placing pressure on ND's originators to come up with the goods in terms of savings which the NEW ! IMPROVED! DIRECT! FREQUENT services were to deliver.

It remains a serious challenge for Dublin Bus to deliver upon it's committments when so many of the NEW ! IMPROVED! etc etc services have,in some cases,spectacularly failed to provide improvements over what was there previously.

This latest element,particularly the proposed 84 alignment is now venturing into the world of the bizzarre and unexplainable.

KD345

The most frustrating thing about these forthcoming changes is knowing what could have been for the 84. I believe the initial set of proposals for the 84 around this time last year were the best - running at a 30 minute frequency between Newcastle and Cherrywood Luas. Unfortunately this proposal was shot down by various groups who demanded it carry on to UCD, which of course meant reducing the frequency. Since then, the 84 has been a bit of a mess of a route. Despite it supposed to operate via Cherrywood, from my experience this is very much up to the driver. It's also supposed to serve Stillorgan Village, but again some buses do and others don't. It's things like this which make the route unreliable and unattractive to passengers.

Ideally, if Dublin Bus insist on scrapping the 45, I would like to see the 84 run at an hourly frequency between Newcastle and Mountjoy Square via the 45 routing between Bray and the city centre. There are enough passengers on the Rock Road to keep good numbers on the 84, but it should also serve the stop on O'Connell Bridge outbound to serve passengers at this busy stop.

The_Wrecker

CIE wrote: »

You shouldn't be talking to horses, I think.

Tis in talks at the moment and looking highly likely.

Just wait till the pull all buses out of Blackrock village! (20th Nov)

the groutch

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Tis in talks at the moment and looking highly likely.

Just wait till the pull all buses out of Blackrock village! (20th Nov)

having the 7 northbound go through the village is one of the things that should have been sorted a long time ago. having a bus take 10 minutes to get from Temple Hill to the Frascati centre is stupid, especially with the potential to revive the 4's old set-down point as a proper stop.

CIE

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Tis in talks at the moment and looking highly likely

Makes no sense.

Why would it be that DB is so bent on removing all city centre bus service from Deans Grange Road, never mind how they've cut off Greystones from city centre bus service?

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Just wait till they pull all buses out of Blackrock village! (20th Nov)

Would have thought that that would have been done in the late 90s, honestly. It's like keeping the 25, 26, 66 and 67 running through Palmerstown village after they finished the N4 bypass; nobody would have conceived of doing that. (Although it's actually probably still feasible to rebuild the old Lucan Road parallel to the N4 all the way to Lucan, if one wants to do it; but that's a different matter altogether.)

The_Wrecker

CIE wrote: »

Makes no sense.

Why would it be that DB is so bent on removing all city centre bus service from Deans Grange Road

They have the 145 at the lower end, 46a in the middle and the Northside bus from Stradbrook. Its only two schools that are keeping the bus going as far as Booterstown. Dont be surprised in time if you see off peak services operating between Bray and Newcastle only.

Cookie_Monster

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Just wait till the pull all buses out of Blackrock village! (20th Nov)

[thumbs up smiley] About feckin time

CIE

The_Wrecker wrote: »

They have the 145 at the lower end, 46a in the middle and the Northside bus from Stradbrook. It's only two schools that are keeping the bus going as far as Booterstown. Don't be surprised in time if you see off peak services operating between Bray and Newcastle only

That's not a reason that I can see. There used to be just as much 46A service in the past as nowadays, back when the 45 itself was running every 15 minutes or better. You're going to end up with a three-kilometre stretch of road with inadequate to nonexistent bus service; it's already nonexistent as far as reaching the city centre, and it makes not a bit of sense.

As far as the 84 goes, there used to be a number of buses in the past off-peak that ran from Bray (corner of Quinsborough Road) to Newcastle only. That'd be a reversion to the past indeed. DB needs to stop listening to consultants that live in cities where they would not and could not even use the bus service...

Cookie_Monster

CIE wrote: »

As far as the 84 goes, there used to be a number of buses in the past off-peak that ran from Bray (corner of Quinsborough Road) to Newcastle only. That'd be a reversion to the past indeed. DB needs to stop listening to consultants that live in cities where they would not and could not even use the bus service...

or even listen to what the consultants tried to tell them rather than disregard it and make up their own routes on the back of it.

RichieD

And still you will get people coming on here and defending these cutbacks.

Oh sorry i meant to say 'route recalculations' not cutbacks.

thomasj

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Just wait till the pull all buses out of Blackrock village! (20th Nov)

[thumbs up smiley] About feckin time

I presume this means just city buses and not the 17, 114 and proposed 84?

this should have been done long ago the way that the village and motorway is setup.

blackrock is one of the villages you could get away with bypassing city buses but not all villages can do this look at blanchardstown village setup for example

AlekSmart

CIE wrote: »

Makes no sense.

Why would it be that DB is so bent on removing all city centre bus service from Deans Grange Road, never mind how they've cut off Greystones from city centre bus service?

Not so....why is everybody forgetting to mention the Fast,Frequent and Popular Route 63 ?

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

or even listen to what the consultants tried to tell them rather than disregard it and make up their own routes on the back of it.

That's another issue. I presume you have a comparo?

The_Wrecker

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not so....why is everybody forgetting to mention the Fast,Frequent and Popular Route 63 ?

Thats another Turkey looking for an oven.......:eek:

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not so....why is everybody forgetting to mention the Fast, Frequent and Popular Route 63?

The thread wasn't about that route, and it didn't operate via Deans Grange (a little impractical to backtrack to Westminster Road along the N11). But since you bring it up, was that the last bus to run on Anglesea Road before it was re-routed...?

AlekSmart

CIE wrote: »

The thread wasn't about that route, and it didn't operate via Deans Grange ?

Ermm.....http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/63-Revised-Times-/

45 55 Baker's Corner
44 56 Deans Grange Cross
43 57 Clonkeen Rd. (Monaloe Corner)
42 58 Monaloe Corner

There is a God and it's name is Network Direct :eek:

CIE

When I said "didn't", that was past tense and in reference to when it ran to the city centre. This older timetable shows operation via Anglesea Road, but so does the older route 84 timetable.

How long have Torquay Road, Brighton Road, Westminster Road and Mart Lane been without any kind of public transport now...? (They didn't route the Luas via the former Foxrock station location, but via Ballyogan.)

Tarabuses

CIE wrote: »

That's not a reason that I can see. There used to be just as much 46A service in the past as nowadays, back when the 45 itself was running every 15 minutes or better. You're going to end up with a three-kilometre stretch of road with inadequate to nonexistent bus service; it's already nonexistent as far as reaching the city centre, and it makes not a bit of sense.

As far as the 84 goes, there used to be a number of buses in the past off-peak that ran from Bray (corner of Quinsborough Road) to Newcastle only. That'd be a reversion to the past indeed. DB needs to stop listening to consultants that live in cities where they would not and could not even use the bus service...

I don't think that what Dublin Bus provides is a bus "service" any more, it is just simply a bus operation.

KD345

Perhaps it would be better to wait for the official announcement by Dublin Bus? No routing or timetable has been presented to the public yet. While there possibly is changes coming, it would seem they are still at a planning stage.

Conway635

While a 45A rerouting south of Bray might be an idea, I don't think withdrawing the 45 from the Rock Road or Deans Grange would be good.

How about some creative thinking as follows:

Shorten the southern end (with 45A amendment as discussed).

Terminate the 45 at Cherrywood Business Park (& LUAS).

In city, combine it with a short northside route of similar frequency - say 53.

Route then runs Dublin Port/East Wall via Matt Talbot (southbound) or Butt (northbound) Bridges, Westland Row, Ballsbridge, Blackrock, Deans Grange, Cherrywood.

Leave the 84 as is.

Makes the 45 more useful than it currently is (while still avoiding congesting O'Connell Bridge any further) and gives more connections to both those on Rock Road and in East Wall.

Any thoughts?

Aquavid

LXFlyer

The one piece of info that none of us has is how many people are using these services.

The 45 does fill a gap on the Rock Road, but the question is, is it empty south of Blackrock (schooltimes excluded)?. Similarly, anecdotal reports of the 84 are of very low loads north of Bray.

If that is the case I wouldn't see a major issue with merging the 45 and 84, but I would think that the 84 needs to operate at a minimum to Pearse Street garda station.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

The one piece of info that none of us has is how many people are using these services.

The 45 does fill a gap on the Rock Road, but the question is, is it empty south of Blackrock (schooltimes excluded)

Based on the number of people (none) you typically see at the stops on Clonkeen Road, yes it is empty south of Blackrock. The No.4 provides a decent service from Monkstown Ave. but the people south of Deansgrange cross have pretty much given up on the 45, they walk up to the library and get the 46A instead.

honru

Dublin Bus really butchered the 45 with severe cuts and the moving of the terminus from Eden Quay to Merrion Square; at first it was only to Ballsbridge. At the least it should terminate in Pearse Street.

I just think the rerouting of the 84 is a terrible idea.

Cookie_Monster

why is the 84 being revisisted anyway, is it not ND-ed enough already?

CIE

coylemj wrote: »

Based on the number of people (none) you typically see at the stops on Clonkeen Road, yes it is empty south of Blackrock. The No.4 provides a decent service from Monkstown Ave. but the people south of Deansgrange cross have pretty much given up on the 45, they walk up to the library and get the 46A instead.

When you cut the frequency by three-quarters and subsequently prevent the route from accessing the city centre, of course people will "give up" on the route because the bus company destroyed it. Frequency sells. That's a lesson that Network Direct is applying selectively, and it'll hurt the bus network in the long run if not the short.

BTW, does anyone remember route 113? Ran parallel to route 45 between Blackrock DART station and Cabinteely. Imagine the frequency of buses on Clonkeen Road during that period of time?

AlekSmart

coylemj wrote: »

The No.4 provides a decent service from Monkstown Ave. but the people south of Deansgrange cross have pretty much given up on the 45, they walk up to the library and get the 46A instead.

That's an interesting observation coylemj makes.

It should be borne in mind that an inherent part of the NTA's brief and indeed it's stated objectives is the promotion of WALKING and CYCLING as sustainable means of personal transport.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/

The NTA also has responsibility for the development of an integrated transport system within the Greater Dublin Area (GDA). The principal functions of the NTA with respect to the GDA are:

* strategic planning of transport;

*development of an integrated, accessible public transport network;

*promoting cycling and walking;

*provision of public transport infrastructure generally including light rail, metro and heavy rail;

*effective management of traffic and transport demand.

This may well be one of the methods by which such goals are to be achieved...It is obvious to many that our Bus Service is blighted by a higgeldy-piggeldy Bus Stop arrangement with virtually no forethought put into the location or amount of Stops on any particular corridor.

CIE

It should be borne in mind that an inherent part of the NTA's brief and indeed its stated objectives is the promotion of WALKING and CYCLING as sustainable means of personal transport

So do they intend to incrementally cut all bus and rail service and then ban cars in order to "promote" (force) walking and cycling?

Sorry, but this is indeed Luddism. The horse and donkey breeders won't be able to keep up, will they? "Former" petrol stations will have to learn how to shoe horses now...the industrial revolution was built around commuting using powered transport, not "short distance" travel on foot, bike or horse, and this broke the feudal system once and for all...(oh wait, are they trying to re-establish the feudal system at the EU level after all?)

AlekSmart

CIE wrote: »

So do they intend to incrementally cut all bus and rail service and then ban cars in order to "promote" (force) walking and cycling?

Sorry, but this is indeed Luddism. The horse and donkey breeders won't be able to keep up, will they?

I certainly wouldn't rule it out CIE.

The Cycling lobby,for example,have strong political clout across the EU and do have a sustainable arguement for displacing mechanized transport so taken to its limit,YES...it may well be a Horse and Cart led vision ?

gerbilgranny

A colleague in work who has been taking the 45 for a few stops from Merrion Square told me that the driver today told her that there won't be a 45 bus soon. I don't know if he meant 'at all', or just serving Dublin city, but now that I've read this thread.......:(


If it's true that the 45a would terminate at Oldcourt - I'm very concerned that there would be no bus at all going from Ballywaltrim/Herbert Road/Killarney Road to the DART station. The 145 goes straight down Main Street, over the Bridge and down towards Little Bray - and that's fine, but if I think there should be SOME service that goes to the DART station - if only every hour off-peak, and every 30 mins during peak times. It's 'only' a 10 minute walk for fit and able folk, to get from Main St to the DART, but for people who are not so mobile, or who have luggage etc, that's awkward. I know it's ridiculous that we can have 3 145s and a 45a all traipsing up the Killarney/Herbert Roads at tea-time, but I'd have hoped Dublin Bus would try to make some provision to join up the buses with the DART/Commuter/Mainline trains at least some of the time!

Any chance of a return of the little 'Imp' buses? - a route that served the Bray area only would make sense for local people, and it wouldn't suffer from the '3 in a row' syndrome that's occuring with the 145s at the moment, because they get snarled up in traffic in the City Centre, and leapfrog each other on the route out to Bray, meaning that some people must have to wait 30 minutes for a bus which is supposed to run at 10 minute intervals

Cookie_Monster

For those unfit/unable or old they'll likely have a free pass anyway which means getting a 145->45a->DART is still feasible and cheap (free) from Ballywaltrim/Herbert Road/Killarney Road

or 145 direct or 45a and 46a or 45a and 7, all the DART stations are pretty much covered by those options...

loyatemu

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

For those unfit/unable or old they'll likely have a free pass anyway which means getting a 145->45a->DART is still feasible and cheap (free) from Ballywaltrim/Herbert Road/Killarney Road

would be very slow & inconvenient if you had to change onto the 45A (which is not a frequent bus) to travel such a short distance.

Bray's a relatively big place and the Dart station is on one side of it, there should be a local feeder service; you could run some sort of circular Bray town route - Little Bray->Station->Vevay->Boghall Rd.->Killarney Rd.->Station. Maybe Finnegans would be interested?

CIE

Any chance of a return of the little 'Imp' buses?

DB apparently found them too maintenance-intensive for their continued operation to remain viable. Perhaps because they made the mistake of running them on high-volume routes...?

LXFlyer

Nothing is going to happen until next year as per the DB website. Even if there are going to be changes they will have to do some consultation on it beforehand as nothing was ever discussed about the 45/45a prior to this.

Like two years ago when a driver told passengers that the 92 was being cut and left it at that, while not knowing or explaining that the 145 would replace it, this is probably garage rumours.

Until plans appear on the DB website I would take the rumours with a grain of salt as that is all they are.