Teen Lying!

LegacyUser

Hi everybody!
My husband and I are at our wits end dealing with our 13 year old girl. She lies to us bout the most ridiculous things, and will keep denying or silent in the face of obvious evidence.
This morning again, we are all wound up to an extreme level, I'll give you a taste of what happened to give you an idea of the situation

Yesterday night around 10 p.m. my husband was looking for the sweets he had bought the day before, which I had put in a drawer. He got mad with not finding them, and then of course we thought of our daughter taking them without asking permission, as she has done it often. So he went calmly to ask her (she was already in bed) if she had taken them, and that he just wanted the truth. She kept denying it, then said he could keep looking etc. We said we would ground her indefinitely if she didn't owe up, since we are absolutely fed up of her lying.
I went then to give her a second chance, but she kept silent, which is a sure sign she is lying!
In the morning, I gave her a third chance, and said that if she gave me the packet, she would not get punished.

During breakfast, her father asked her again about them. He started calm then got mad at her evasion of the truth and silence/ mumbling.
She had put the (nearly empty!) bag of Haribos in my room, without telling me, but still couldn't bring herself to say the word "I took the sweets", which would have got her off. She preferred staying silent, saying se couldn't say it, crying etc.

She lies about such petty things several times a week, at least we catch her that often. We feel we cannot trust her at all, that later when serious things happen, she will still lie by omission, stay silent, or deny till the death. Dishonesty is a horrible trait in my opinion.
She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. She knows the consequences are far worse for lying than for misbehaving in our house.
Does she lack moral fibre?
How can we ever trust her?

I know putting the foot down to such an extent, i.e not even bringing her to sport, no birthdays or afternoons in town with friends, will only make her rebellious and push her away.

My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously. She has lied about more serious things also, and it's a matter of time before the normal teen problems (binge drinking, smoking, etc) make an appearance around her anyway.
We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
Our daughter is an extremely happy teen, with many friends and loved family, very successful at school and in her hobbies, always very polite and pleasant to everybody. I would have to say I'm very proud of her, except for this!

Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

Thanks in advance!

ppink

From some experience with this I would be seeking professional help ASAP for this girl and your family. We had a very similar situation with a family member who at a similar age started this lying business. His mother tried everything, all sorts of talking, explaining, punishing etc and nothing worked. It is to the point that he is not welcome in my home ever.
If he said it was night time you could not even rely on that to be true and again it was over the most stupid of things but built up to significant lies and threatened to divide the entire family.

I am not trying to scare you but I would be looking for professional help to try to resolve this.

LegacyUser

Wow, you ARE scaring me! My sister also said some psychological help might be good. I generally tend to think that professional help can make things worse, i.e. building problems up etc. But I'm willing to discuss it with m husband...

I don't know much about the services, I suppose I could ring my health clinic...Though public care might take very long in starting? Do you have an idea of how much would an appointment ( or a series of appointments?!) with a private counsellor be?

I think family therapy would be better, as I know they might just believe her if she says we're too strict, etc, without a counter-argument!

LegacyUser

Just realised I've put a ridiculous smilie by my post. Any way of removing it, mods?

saa

Thanks for posting here, I would agree for all three of you to talk to someone would be the best option as tension is being caused by both parties and you cannot just achieve good communication instantly when there is a problem.

Your daughter should not be lying but she will, that actually isn't the problem here its a strong relationship that needs to be built, even with that she will lie but there will not be the outbursts of confrontation and hopefully it won't get out of hand.

I will be honest with you I was worried reading this post that she was stealing large amounts of money, or shouting or hitting someone but a bag of sweets is actually quite a normal thing that happens, she might not of wanted to ask you and this will become more apparent as she begins to shape how she wants to operate in this world and communicate with you versus your view on how that should happen so flexibility is quite important.

I think you should have talked to her as if it wasn't a big deal, just so communication would not shut down, I think her Father entering her bedroom (angry) was completely inappropriate. Her bedroom should be a safe place as should yours, if you disrespect her boundaries she will do the same. Show her disappointment not anger.

So that night of the confrontation, which 10pm is far too late to be disrupting anyone nevermind a child/young woman, she would not be able to actually explain that she was sorry if she felt intimidated, if one of you want to talk to her you should be at the same level, not one of you standing up and the child sitting.

The issue should of been resolved at the time calmly by just knocking in to see if she's okay and asking in passing oh yeah (name) did you see the sweets that were in the drawer, she probably won't want to say anything at this point so you can say well if you had some thats okay but next time just ask or give her a limit on how many sweets she can take, if she's not allowed any sweets without asking then she will rebel against that if shes not comfortable asking.


So this carried on until breakfast, she did feel bad for taking them and her way of making things better was putting what ever she could back, I bet she didnt know this would happen and like many young people they cannot articulate themselves very well so her actions were apologetic she did not say anything to you because she seems scared and very uncomfortable talking

This is why family mediation would really be the answer here,
Avoid anger as she will only show anger back or bottle up the anger she has been receiving. This does not mean she is lacking in morals it just means some boundaries have to be constructed in relation to communication and various other things like the sweets instance, if it is a big bag of sweets in a family home no one person should claim them, if everyone knew they could have 5 at a time there would not be the tension over ownership.

What's important now is why she took them and not why she lied but why she couldnt speak, I feel that she wants to do good which is a great sign you should work of.


I think you must talk to your husband when he has calmed down, if you see her taking sweets as a betrayal then this will isolate your daughter from you two and if this carries on there is the possibility she will not want to talk to you when she moves out, if you want to enforce your own beliefs without listening to hers. Its also important to note if you are coming from a different cultural that is more of a conservative background and you are bringing your child up in Ireland she will be much more liberal and you cannot stop that if that is the case.

January

tearingourhairout wrote: »

Just realised I've put a ridiculous smilie by my post. Any way of removing it, mods?

Done

Jerri Jordan

Peronally I feel that it is wrong to control food in a family household unless your teen has a weight problem and is binge eating. I buy my shopping and no one in my house has to explain what they are or arnt taking from the presses or fridges foodwise. I think it is very controlling to do so.sorry but thats just my opinion.
I grew up in a household where you did not have to ask could you have food. I know a woman who married a man who put locks on the cupboards and hid food from the children. Everyone was horrified that the mother allowed this to go on. Its stifling and controlling.
why is a packet of sweets such a huge issue, i cant imagine going into my childs bedroom and giving her the third degree over something so trivial.
Teenagers tell fibs all the time, as they get older and if they have a good supportive homelife they will grow out of it.
If she is telling dangerous lies then thats a problem.
My advice is to lighten up. If a packet of sweets cause such a drama then maybe you and your husband need to look to yourselfs and your own issues. she just sounds like a normal; 13 year old. probably living on her nerves wondering when you two are going to blow up again over nothing.

fatmammycat

I doubt very much the OP is angry about sweets, but about the lying thereafter. She was clearly just using it as an example.
OP, when there's no argument or conflicted moment I would sit her down and explaing in plain calm language that the consequence of lying is worse than the consequence of doing the wrong thing. 13 is still very young and they're just finding their way at this point. Stick with it, and hopefully the message will make sense to her eventually.

ppink

tearingourhairout wrote: »

Wow, you ARE scaring me! My sister also said some psychological help might be good. I generally tend to think that professional help can make things worse, i.e. building problems up etc. But I'm willing to discuss it with m husband...

I don't know much about the services, I suppose I could ring my health clinic...Though public care might take very long in starting? Do you have an idea of how much would an appointment ( or a series of appointments?!) with a private counsellor be?

I think family therapy would be better, as I know they might just believe her if she says we're too strict, etc, without a counter-argument!

I am sorry, I did not mean to scare you. I am kind of going not so much on the bag of sweets, which in itself is small, but on you saying you catch her lying about stupid things several times a week. It just sounds so familiar.
I think if you can contact some councillors they will advise on the best approach...maybe get a recommendation from you GP? your daughter may need time to discuss issues alone before you and your husband are brought in? I dont know about it making problems worse. I am not professional in that area but I do think it is important she has a voice to express her issues.

Fittle

Is it just me or is this post WAY OTT - someone advising psychological intervention for a hormonal teenager because she robbed her dads sweets and was afraid to tell him

phasers

Agreed Fittle, it all seems like a huge overreaction on both sides. It seems like standard teenage behavoiur to me, I went through a similar phase when I was younger.

Rochester

phasers wrote: »

Agreed Fittle, it all seems like a huge overreaction on both sides. It seems like standard teenage behavoiur to me, I went through a similar phase when I was younger.

I agree, there are much bigger battles out there and I know she's lying but with two of you standing over her threatening to ground her over a packet of sweets, I think I'd lie too to be honest. I am a parent of a 13 year old girl by the way.

Das Kitty

She sounds like she's scared to me frankly.

Teenagers do silly things like take things they shouldn't from their parents. There's rarely malice in it. It sounds like she is afraid of what will happen if she owns up.

If she were my daughter I would try to have a frank chat with her with no accusations, just to see where she is coming from. People rarely do things for no reason.

As for how to deal with your husband's temper, only he can change that. In my experience having shouting and anger at home is not pleasant for anyone.

Daisy M

My daughter aged 11 can lie so well its unbelievable. I saw her doing something the other night, she didnt know I was watching and she denied it when I told her I was watching and saw what she did she tried to change the story to make it seem as if I had misunderstood. It was a trivial matter that I really didnt care about but I do kind of worry that I wont be able to know when she is lying and wont be able to always trust her. I believe the reason my daughter wont admit to a lie or tells a lie is because she hates to be wrong she really has to believe she is always right or knows best and she doesnt take that from the wind! Otherwise she is a lovely girl kind and loving generous to a fault and when given time to think about her behaviour she can see it silly. My 14 yr old son doesnt really lie but like your daughter if he took something sweets from the cupboard late at night he would lie lie lie and deny deny deny.J
JERRI JORDAN as to your point of food not been controlled in a family I dont agree with you. I should be able to do my shopping for the week and know that whatever biscuits/treats I buy for the weekend or to last the week wont be gone by the next day and most of it eaten by one person. Of course healthy food is not limited in our house, but I dont think it would be a good idea to allow my children to fill up on sugary snacks before bedtime, I doubt they would get to sleep for hours.
PPINK, I think you may be over reacting a bit to the ops post, I understand that this is due to your own negative experiences with a family member but the ops daughter has only taken some sweets from her own home she isnt meddling in crime or banned substances or causing danger to others.
OP I do understand your fustration, I think her constant lying is giving her your attention and to some extent a little control/power over you. Try letting the small things slide make it clear that you wont however leave bigger things unpunished. Start focusing on her positives. I think if she was lacking in moral fiber she would not have friends, family would find her difficult in lots of ways and she definetely wouldnt be polite and plesant to everyone. Dont give her some long hard punishment give her something to fit the crime get her to buy your husband a replacement pack of sweets and do a chore she cant stand maybe get her to clean a few windows and leave it at that. Best of luck.

Ayla

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

...She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. ...My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously.
...We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
...Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

This is the part of your thread which perked my interest. You say on one hand that "you're quite strict" (presumably using slapping where it's perceived as necessary), and you mention the anger & force that comes from (justifiable) frustration, but then you can't seem to understand why your daughter would be scared of consequences?

Everyone - teenagers and adults alike - make rash decisions and mistakes. Without knowing any more of the situation I wouldn't feel right assuming your daughter has any sort of pyschological issues that need addressing. But I would suggest that if she's admitted she's scared of consequences then you immediately deal with that.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the quick replies!
The packet of sweets is SOOO not the issue! It was just an example, though we are fairly concerned with healthy eating and try to limit junk food etc to some extent. She has lied last week in plain view of the evidence also about having money or not for an outing,and earlier about make-up, about losing her phone (she hadn't, and pretended she had!), even about taking money from my wallet! So it's a habit of lying which is concerning us.

Yes, we are strict, though not ever violent or unreasonable. We are certainly not conservative, I come from a bohemian Parisian background, but there are of course principles we believe in, such as honesty and trust within families! We do communicate about everything, she talks to us a lot, is lively in her description of school, friends, etc. but she always has been a secret child, which I respect.

I don't see why entering her room after knocking is such a big no-no, she is still only 13 and if we need to discuss things with her, then I think it's fine to go up. She has a very big bedroom, studies up there, does everything there, and has a lot of privacy. The fact that it was late is not good, I'll agree.

My husband came in quietly asking her if she had seen the sweets, even though we suspected she had taken them, then got angry at her denial.Yes, he was wrong to lose his temper, there is very little I can do, as a poster has mentioned, about his temper.

Yet, are we not allowed to express anger, in a reasonable way though, or disapproval anymore, only disappointment? The latter is what I feel, my husband feels anger (fiery Irish temper, don't kill me for a jokey stereotype please!). He does an awful lot for her, drives her everywhere at any time, and has a stressful job, so yes, he feels very let down and angry about not being able to trust her when we bend over backwards to give her ( and her sister) a lively life.

Her sister btw, who is ten, always owns up immediately and doesn't get into trouble, so she can see we're not dragons...

I gave her a third chance in this case to owe up with no consequences, and yes she did return the (nearly empty!) bag, but she could still not say the words! Why????
I want to help her to be able to admit a failing or a misbehavior without being afraid of us, and we talked a lot about it, but she doesn't know herself why she can't bring herself to tell the truth...
She must be afraid of us in some way, you are right, but how can we hit that middle ground between letting her run wild and lie her way through life and antagonizing her?

LegacyUser

Sorry just to clarify: we didn't threaten to ground her over the sweets, but over the bold-faced lying. And we didn't go up together or even stand over her, my husband just stood at the door, and so did I later...
When I say we are strict, I mean that we have certain rules and expectations (which are quite high, it's true), and we do believe our children should be ruling the roost. We do not slap her(except once two years ago I slapped her on the arm, my husband never did), and I nearly never raise my voice (my mother did it, and I hate it).
I'm interested in Psychology and Philosophy so I always try to have a fair and reasonable discussion about motives and consequences. She couldn't be that afraid, especially since lying is the only thing that has brought her into trouble.
Somehow I hink it's part of her growing up, trying to be independent in some way, having 'secrets' (of ridiculous content even), things which we do not control etc. That might be the reason she does it...

Morag

If you are worried that she is a habitual liar and how that can grow into a huge issue for her and impact very negatively on her in the future then do talk to your family dr and get a referral to get her an appointment to talk to someone and see if it's a important issue or just being a teen, either way she will get help.

LegacyUser

Yes, Sharrow, that's my worry. She also lies to her friends, inventing boyfriends for months at a time, when there are many boys chasing her, and she's a beautiful confident girl, who doesn't need to. She is a bit of a fantasist in that way.
Again, I asked her why she does it, when she obviously doesn't need their attention, she is very popular etc. She can't explain it!!!

Justask

What punishment does your husband want to hand out?

It looks to me that if she is lying about something as small as a packet of sweets ( among other things) she is scared.

LegacyUser

Well grounding her mainly, for example Twilight 4 is coming out soon and she was going to go with friends...Also he doesn't want to keep driving her and picking her up from activities twice a week.
I think I've dealt with the fear aspect earlier, but it may be a factor, though I think it's more compulsive. As I've mentioned, she even lies to her friends, when there isn't that factor involved.

Justask

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

.Also he doesn't want to keep driving her and picking her up from activities twice a week.
.

I dont know a parent who isnt a taxi for their child, its part of parenting.

Maybe have a chat with your gp

fatmammycat

Out of curiosity, I asked my niece tonight why she lied constantly as a teenager- she is now 20 and had a terrific and open relationship with her mom and dad. Her response- 'Don't know really, I always thought 'sh1t, I'm in so much trouble I'll lie'" and I said, 'even though you got in so much crap when you lied?' And she said, 'yeah, but sometimes I got away with it, so, y'know, it was worth it.'
Phase she clearly grew out of. I don't think you need a gp or anything else, I think some kids just avoid conflict until they're old enough to learn how to deal with it.

LegacyUser

Yes, he acts as taxi many other times during the week, but these four runs are not absolutely necessary.
I was hoping it was just a phase, but it's been nearly a year and a half.
One of her funny lies was when she denied plucking her eyebrows, when half of one of them was missing! We had to laugh at that one....

carfiosaoorl

OP- I have 10 almost 11 yr old daughter who does the same thing. She will lie and blame anyone around her to get herself out of trouble. It drives me crazy. I point it out to her everytime she does it in the hopes that it will change the behaviour but I havent punished her for it, yet anyway. I think that either she just hates getting into trouble or its a personality trait that she isnt able to help. I hope she grows out of it and I dont have to start punishing her for it.
I understand that your daughter is older than mine and that you might feel a punishment is in order but if you do I wouldnt be too harsh. Canceling her trip to the cinema to see twilight with her friends seems very harsh but that is coming from a twilight fan *wink*. I hope everything works out for you all.

saa

Is it just me or is there a lot of stigma around family mediation,
Its not about sweets, its not about lying its about the anger and the inability to communicate.

Do not hold the fear that talking makes things worse, this idea has destroyed family life in this country for so long.

Mountjoy Mugger

The more often she's "caught" lying, the sooner she'll grow out of it.

IMO, it's a phase.

6328

One word: HORMONES. Every young girl at that age does similar things to what you have stated there.

Emer911

Gees, OP. She's 13. Were you never 13? Insecure, hormonal, uncertain about everything.

...and the bad news is, this phase is called being a teenager and will probably last for about another 3 or 4 years (My 17 still has occasional lapses of 'I didn't do it!')

Some words of wisdom I was given a few year ago that stayed with me:

"You raise them to be sweet little kids. Then the teens kick in and they become HORRID young people that you can't stand to be in the same room as. You just have to hold on, trust you laid a good foundation, and wait for them to come back to you. They will. Eventually."

So... patience is the key word. Try to control your actions (you can't control anyone else's). Good luck!

superstoner90

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Hi everybody!
My husband and I are at our wits end dealing with our 13 year old girl. She lies to us bout the most ridiculous things, and will keep denying or silent in the face of obvious evidence.
This morning again, we are all wound up to an extreme level, I'll give you a taste of what happened to give you an idea of the situation

Yesterday night around 10 p.m. my husband was looking for the sweets he had bought the day before, which I had put in a drawer. He got mad with not finding them, and then of course we thought of our daughter taking them without asking permission, as she has done it often. So he went calmly to ask her (she was already in bed) if she had taken them, and that he just wanted the truth. She kept denying it, then said he could keep looking etc. We said we would ground her indefinitely if she didn't owe up, since we are absolutely fed up of her lying.
I went then to give her a second chance, but she kept silent, which is a sure sign she is lying!
In the morning, I gave her a third chance, and said that if she gave me the packet, she would not get punished.

During breakfast, her father asked her again about them. He started calm then got mad at her evasion of the truth and silence/ mumbling.
She had put the (nearly empty!) bag of Haribos in my room, without telling me, but still couldn't bring herself to say the word "I took the sweets", which would have got her off. She preferred staying silent, saying se couldn't say it, crying etc.

She lies about such petty things several times a week, at least we catch her that often. We feel we cannot trust her at all, that later when serious things happen, she will still lie by omission, stay silent, or deny till the death. Dishonesty is a horrible trait in my opinion.
She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. She knows the consequences are far worse for lying than for misbehaving in our house.
Does she lack moral fibre?
How can we ever trust her?

I know putting the foot down to such an extent, i.e not even bringing her to sport, no birthdays or afternoons in town with friends, will only make her rebellious and push her away.

My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously. She has lied about more serious things also, and it's a matter of time before the normal teen problems (binge drinking, smoking, etc) make an appearance around her anyway.
We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
Our daughter is an extremely happy teen, with many friends and loved family, very successful at school and in her hobbies, always very polite and pleasant to everybody. I would have to say I'm very proud of her, except for this!

Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

Thanks in advance!

just chill-ax

starbelgrade

Teenagers nick stuff all the time & lie about stuff. Not all teenagers, but it's still fairly normal behaviour for a teenager. More often than not, they grow out of it & turn out to be well rounded adults.. rebelling & getting into trouble are all rites of passage and should be expected when you have kids.

How you deal with it is a different issue, but an adult freaking out with a kid over a packet of sweets is to me a little bit disturbing to say the least.

Galadriel

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

One of her funny lies was when she denied plucking her eyebrows, when half of one of them was missing! We had to laugh at that one....

Ok, she is 13, she plucked her eyebrows maybe for the first time and got it wrong, you really want her to admit that to you even though it's obvious? she's obviously embarrassed and maybe that's why she lied about it.

LegacyUser

I don't know if the last posters have read the whole thread, but I have to repeat again: It's not about the sweets! This child has been lying regularly for a year and a half, even to her friends...
All is good at home anyway now, she more or less made her own way to basketball this week, and she doesn't mind not going to the cinema this time! I'll probably bring her myself later.
I don't think I'll bring her to get professional help, but keep a close hear/eye on things, and if she develops serious and indiscriminate lying habits, we might review the situation.
When I talked with her about it this week, she said she didn't want to talk about it to anybody, even her aunts she is very close to. She doesn't seem to see it much as a problem. Maybe her moral conscience has taken a back seat during adolescence, I think teens lack empathy etc, so it might be part of that. Their brain is just topsy-turvy for a while!

nowayjosie

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Hi everybody!
My husband and I are at our wits end dealing with our 13 year old girl. She lies to us bout the most ridiculous things, and will keep denying or silent in the face of obvious evidence.
This morning again, we are all wound up to an extreme level, I'll give you a taste of what happened to give you an idea of the situation

Yesterday night around 10 p.m. my husband was looking for the sweets he had bought the day before, which I had put in a drawer. He got mad with not finding them, and then of course we thought of our daughter taking them without asking permission, as she has done it often. So he went calmly to ask her (she was already in bed) if she had taken them, and that he just wanted the truth. She kept denying it, then said he could keep looking etc. We said we would ground her indefinitely if she didn't owe up, since we are absolutely fed up of her lying.
I went then to give her a second chance, but she kept silent, which is a sure sign she is lying!
In the morning, I gave her a third chance, and said that if she gave me the packet, she would not get punished.

During breakfast, her father asked her again about them. He started calm then got mad at her evasion of the truth and silence/ mumbling.
She had put the (nearly empty!) bag of Haribos in my room, without telling me, but still couldn't bring herself to say the word "I took the sweets", which would have got her off. She preferred staying silent, saying se couldn't say it, crying etc.

She lies about such petty things several times a week, at least we catch her that often. We feel we cannot trust her at all, that later when serious things happen, she will still lie by omission, stay silent, or deny till the death. Dishonesty is a horrible trait in my opinion.
She's said she's too afraid of consequences, but we have never got that angry or violent. She knows the consequences are far worse for lying than for misbehaving in our house.
Does she lack moral fibre?
How can we ever trust her?

I know putting the foot down to such an extent, i.e not even bringing her to sport, no birthdays or afternoons in town with friends, will only make her rebellious and push her away.

My husband feels we have to, that it needs to be dealt with very seriously. She has lied about more serious things also, and it's a matter of time before the normal teen problems (binge drinking, smoking, etc) make an appearance around her anyway.
We are generally quite strict parents (I'm from a country where slapping is not outlawed!), so it's not the result of sloppy overly-liberal parenting!
Our daughter is an extremely happy teen, with many friends and loved family, very successful at school and in her hobbies, always very polite and pleasant to everybody. I would have to say I'm very proud of her, except for this!

Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!

Thanks in advance!

For gods sake this is a child taking a few sweets without permission - you both need to relax - your coming down on her too hard and I don't blame her for not owning up and being punished - your actions are only going to make her act worse.

You should be aiming for a relaxed home environment where this child feels free to talk to you. From the sounds of it she is terrified of you both so therefore she won't admit to things she's done which were wrong. Mind you I feel your taking this all far too seriously as were talking about a few sweets here.

Put yourselves in her shoes imagine being in your bed when your father who is very angry enters the room and starts accusing you of taking his sweets (he sounds so very immature) some thing another 13 year old might do this is then followed up by your mother threatening you with punishments etc...well would you own up??? both of you need to learn some good parenting skills, and lighten up your both way over the top and far too strict, your just destroying any chance you have of her ever trusting you.

1966

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Yes, Sharrow, that's my worry. She also lies to her friends, inventing boyfriends for months at a time, when there are many boys chasing her, and she's a beautiful confident girl, who doesn't need to. She is a bit of a fantasist in that way.
Again, I asked her why she does it, when she obviously doesn't need their attention, she is very popular etc. She can't explain it!!!

Jeez lighten up !!
You guys quizzing her friends now - please.

I told my friends my boyfriend was Adam Ant growing up and AFAIK I turned out OK.......

Andrew33

Fittle wrote: »

Is it just me or is this post WAY OTT - someone advising psychological intervention for a hormonal teenager because she robbed her dads sweets and was afraid to tell him

Absolutely agree, having a young teenage girl in your house is like having a CIA operative living with you, they're masters in subterfuge, diversion tactics and generally they'll fukk with your head every chance they get but once you know it's all perfectly normal teenage behaviour it all becomes easier.
To OP, the stricter you are and the more restrictions you try to impose? It's like blocking the safety valve on a pressure cooker, ease up and it'll all come good.

nowayjosie

Andrew33 wrote: »

Absolutely agree, having a young teenage girl in your house is like having a CIA operative living with you, they're masters in subterfuge, diversion tactics and generally they'll fukk with your head every chance they get but once you know it's all perfectly normal teenage behaviour it all becomes easier.
To OP, the stricter you are and the more restrictions you try to impose? It's like blocking the safety valve on a pressure cooker, ease up and it'll all come good.

Your so right Andrew 33,

the parents here are off the way and making the teen even worse, theres a time to be strict and theres limits we all set for teens but most parents would love it is all there teenager done was rob a few haribo jelly beans from a drawer - they both need to grow up.

Andrew33

nowayjosie wrote: »

Your so right Andrew 33,

the parents here are off the way and making the teen even worse, theres a time to be strict and theres limits we all set for teens but most parents would love it is all there teenager done was rob a few haribo jelly beans from a drawer - they both need to grow up.

Sounds like the young lady in the house is the one with the sense!:D

I suppose I shouldn't joke about it, OP is obviously stressed out over it but she (and hubby) just need to lighten up.

nowayjosie

Andrew33 wrote: »

Sounds like the young lady in the house is the one with the sense!:D

I suppose I shouldn't joke about it, OP is obviously stressed out over it but she (and hubby) just need to lighten up.

;)Know what I dont blame you for the joke - with a bit of luck the parents will look carefully through the replies and learn something from them. Maybe this is the first teenager they have - hopefully they will get things into perspective, as parents we sometimes need guidance, and thats no harm but we need to live in the real world coz they seem to be on another planet.:D

LegacyUser

I have already said we generally have a very good relationship etc. I think some posters didn't read further posts of mine....
Anyway, so you all think lying through one's teeth is fine and should be accepted?
That's fine, that's more or less what we're doing!

starbelgrade

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

I have already said we generally have a very good relationship etc. I think some posters didn't read further posts of mine....
Anyway, so you all think lying through one's teeth is fine and should be accepted?
That's fine, that's more or less what we're doing!

I've read all your posts & some of them are contradictory - you say that you are accepting that she's lying through her teeth, yet at the same time you are at your wits end.

You say that you have a good family relationship, yet you're looking for advice on how to negotiate with your husband, who seems to have a temper on him which you brush off as a "fiery Irish temper" as if it were a national trait (it's not by the way - he need to learn to control that).

And then you say that your daughter lacks empathy - for me that is the crux of this issue.. you are judging your daughter (a child) by your own adult standards, saying that she lacks "moral fibre" etc, instead of recognising the fact that she's a young girl who will only learn things in life by making mistakes. The fact that you cannot understand this shows that it's you & your husband that are lacking empathy.

And then you say that this isn't just about a packet of sweets. I'm sure that it isn't & I believe that you want to see the best of your daughter & would prefer that she wouldn't lie about things, but when you make such a big issue over something so trivial as a packet of sweets, then I'm not surprised that she lies about things.

This is a girl who needs to grow up a bit & learn that lying is not a good thing - that will happen with time as sure as night follows day, but I also think that you & your husband have a bit or growing up to do yourselves, realise that your kids need space & time to learn and grow into adults and above all, show a bit more empathy to her.

nowayjosie

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

I have already said we generally have a very good relationship etc. I think some posters didn't read further posts of mine....
Anyway, so you all think lying through one's teeth is fine and should be accepted?
That's fine, that's more or less what we're doing!

I have read your posts, you both obviously love your daughter I can see that from what you said below

"Our daughter is an extremely happy teen, with many friends and loved family, very successful at school and in her hobbies, always very polite and pleasant to everybody. I would have to say I'm very proud of her, except for this!"



how ever you then went on to say the following

"Please advise me also on negociating with my very angry husband, I feel the punishment he's proposing would be counter-productive!"

And this seems to me to be more urgent a problem to deal with then the fact that your daughter took some sweets without permission. Your husband seems to be acting OTT completely -- we're talking about a few petty lie's about sweets or whatever -- its normal teenage behaviour stop reading into it as something else.

Just sit down and have a chat with your husband about why its not a good idea to be loosing his temper over petty things, and why don't you both check out through friends who have teenagers what their child is like. I'd cool off on the punishments and loosing the tempers and flying off the handle as if you think back its not easy being a teenager it can be a very traumatic time.

I agree with you - your very angry husbands attitude is counter productive he really needs to chill out.

Best of luck.

Tayla

ppink wrote: »

From some experience with this I would be seeking professional help ASAP for this girl and your family. We had a very similar situation with a family member who at a similar age started this lying business. His mother tried everything, all sorts of talking, explaining, punishing etc and nothing worked. It is to the point that he is not welcome in my home ever.
If he said it was night time you could not even rely on that to be true and again it was over the most stupid of things but built up to significant lies and threatened to divide the entire family.

I am not trying to scare you but I would be looking for professional help to try to resolve this.

I also know someone like this, started lying as a young teenager, is now an adult but lies about the most stupid things all the time, he lies about serious things aswell but the sheer volume of lies make it impossible to trust him......however when I was that age I told some lies but I've grown out of it and to be honest even now as a grown adult and mother I feel like I was right to lie in the situations that I lied in because my parents could be very irrational about things.

I'll give you an example, I started school when I had just turned 4 so most of my friends in my year in school for a year or 2 older than me, when we were about 12/13 all my friends would want to go to the late show at the cinema, of course my parents were having none of it, according to them I was too young because all my friends were older than me and this and that, I tried to rationally plead my case with them saying that so what if they were a year or 2 older than me, they were in my class, they were my peers so it shouldn't have been an issue. Because of the fact that they were impossible to deal with it, it led to extreme tactics for me to even be allowed to go along with these innocent nights out with my friends etc. It wasn't good but they were unwilling to compromise.

I actually developed social anxiety at around the age of 14 and it led to me leaving school early, my parents still don't know the real reason why I left school early, not that they ever asked, they just seemed to think I was a problem child.

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Yes, Sharrow, that's my worry. She also lies to her friends, inventing boyfriends for months at a time, when there are many boys chasing her, and she's a beautiful confident girl, who doesn't need to. She is a bit of a fantasist in that way.
Again, I asked her why she does it, when she obviously doesn't need their attention, she is very popular etc. She can't explain it!!!

That is strange tearingourhairout, I can see how you would be frustrated and worried about her.

Galadriel wrote: »

Ok, she is 13, she plucked her eyebrows maybe for the first time and got it wrong, you really want her to admit that to you even though it's obvious? she's obviously embarrassed and maybe that's why she lied about it.

I think the OP mentioned in her first post that the her daughter was crying etc (in regards to the sweets) but she said she "couldn't say it"

I think maybe you put too much emphasise on her saying the words OP, if she's practically admitted it through her actions and won't say the words then you shouldn't keep putting pressure on her to say the words.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for the replies, there's food for thought there, especially from those who have realised it's not about the sweets or any specific instance, but about the habit itself.
By the way it's the only problem we have with her, we appreciate she is an exceptionally lovely and interesting child, I try not to boast of her too often!
I suppose it's true I hold her to adult standards of behavior, I grew up fast and had a lot of responsibility young, which she doesn't, so I should remember she's not developing at the same rate I was (though physically she i, which is confusing...).
Both of us parents have a good relationship with her, again this morning my husband was trying to work out a way to bring her to a match this week. Between us, however, we don't always agree about parenting, I think he's too explosive then lenient thus incoherent, whereas I would be fairly consistently authoritative (not authoritarian!) but coherent and always understanding.
This morning again I talked with her informally, and she understands us not being happy with her lying, I think she is not happy about it herself. We were talking about going to see Breaking Dawn together, as we did for the other films before, as a nice girlie time together (I loved the books! ), and she said her friends are not all going together etc, so she's delighted to go with me, and maybe dress up...
All this is fine, but we give her quite a bit of freedom, going to sleepovers a lot, to town every Saturday with her friends, on holidays with cousins for two weeks without us in a fairly wild (anarchist) camp etc, so we need to be able to TRUST her and what she says. If she says she has money, and doesn't, or vice-versa, or lies about what happens to her there, it's a problem. We want to let her be independent to an extent, but we need honesty and trust in order to do so.
Yes, I did put too much emphasis on her "saying the words", I wanted to see if it was a psychological obstacle, and I think it was, maybe as you said, because of embarrassment.
She's mentioned before that we pressurise her (to do excellently at school, for example, since she can!) and expect her to be perfect. Maybe that's where the problem lies, that's her way not to be!
I'll try to relax a little with these expectations of mine. I will talk to my husband, I know he'll agree to try, but will probably keep being inconsistent....

Daisy M

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

I have already said we generally have a very good relationship etc. I think some posters didn't read further posts of mine....
Anyway, so you all think lying through one's teeth is fine and should be accepted?
That's fine, that's more or less what we're doing!

OP you asked for advice on here and thats what you are getting there is no point getting defensive. Most people think you are overreacting and maybe you need to consider this rather than getting defensive. The way you have handled the problem up until now hasnt worked so you do need to take a different approach. This thread has given you plenty of advice and viewpoints, please consider taking them on board.

al28283

Sounds like a nightmare being a young teen in your home TBH.

nowayjosie

Daisy M wrote: »

OP you asked for advice on here and thats what you are getting there is no point getting defensive. Most people think you are overreacting and maybe you need to consider this rather than getting defensive. The way you have handled the problem up until now hasnt worked so you do need to take a different approach. This thread has given you plenty of advice and viewpoints, please consider taking them on board.

I agree Daisy M;
I feel sorry for them as they have made such a commotion about something so trivial and some how they seem to have lost their way and this can happen to anyone but you've given sound advice and I'd urge them both to take the advice of everyone on board.

LegacyUser

Sorry again I have to disagree a HABIT of lying is "trivial". We're hoping it's a phase (I have already explained it's been going on for one and a half year), but it's really not something we believe is acceptable long-term. Again, my husband was angry, and I was disappointed that my daughter repeatedly feels the need to lie EVEN WHEN SHE KNOWS SHE WON'T GET IN TROUBLE FOR TELLING THE TRUTH!

There was no commotion except a few minutes of asking the question and talking about consequences for lying on the given night, and a few tears the morning after when I asked her to explain herself r.e. the lying.

I have taken advice on board to relax etc, as mentioned in my last post. She is not really being punished, as explained earlier also. A lot of communication is happening all the time.

As for judging whether you would like to be a teen in our house, no parents are perfect, and all teens have moments when they 'hate' their parents, it's part of growing up.
I have pointed out she is extremely happy and fulfilled. In fact many many people comment on the joy (of life) that our daughters both display.
Maybe it's beside the point, but I think having high expectations and clear boundaries is good in education? I am a teacher, and I know it works there...

Sorry for the caps above, but I feel I need to clarify the situation for some people...We are not talking about just one instance, but about a habit, in and out of the house!

nowayjosie

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Sorry again I have to disagree a HABIT of lying is "trivial".

I agree with you but can you see, but its trivial in this case regarding taking a few sweets?

We're hoping it's a phase (I have already explained it's been going on for one and a half year), but it's really not something we believe is acceptable long-term.
your right it is a phase that all teenagers all over the world go through, yes its not acceptable but its part of life and in the majority of cases its not longterm

Again, my husband was angry, and I was disappointed that my daughter repeatedly feels the need to lie EVEN WHEN SHE KNOWS SHE WON'T GET IN TROUBLE FOR TELLING THE TRUTH!

Was your husband angry over his sweets been taking without permission or was he angry because your child would not admit she was lying? either way its pointless in him been angry it won't solve anything it will only make matters worse.
You probably did feel disapointed but its best to just gently say to her that your disappointed that she's lying and leave it at that.

There was no commotion except a few minutes of asking the question and talking about consequences for lying on the given night, and a few tears the morning after when I asked her to explain herself r.e. the lying.

You mentioned in your first post that the next morning everyone was very upset i think you used the word " extremely" so to me thats a commotion - this too will infact feed into it and should have been forgotten about the next morning.

I have taken advice on board to relax etc, as mentioned in my last post. She is not really being punished, as explained earlier also. A lot of communication is happening all the time.

Thats excellent you'll find the whole thing can be sorted out a lot easier now and just try to keep in mind that most teenagers go on to be perfectly formed adults even if they spend a few years as teenagers lying

As for judging whether you would like to be a teen in our house, no parents are perfect, and all teens have moments when they 'hate' their parents, it's part of growing up.

Thats true too most teenages hate their parents for many years, and most of the time this too resolves itself, and most teenagers lie about stupid things during their teenage years and that too is part of growing up

I have pointed out she is extremely happy and fulfilled. In fact many many people comment on the joy (of life) that our daughters both display.
Maybe it's beside the point, but I think having high expectations and clear boundaries is good in education? I am a teacher, and I know it works there...
As i mentioned before it is very obvious that you love your daughter, and its good to have high expectations, but sometimes we have to accept our kids cant live up to all our expectations and particularly teenagers who in most cases have a hard time during their teenage years with hormones all over the place.

Forget about being a teacher when your teen is misbehaving its much better to remember that your a mother with and i quote "an extremely happy and fulfilled" child who is perfectly normal.

Sorry for the caps above, but I feel I need to clarify the situation for some people...We are not talking about just one instance, but about a habit, in and out of the house!

Again, what can i say, to me and i am a mother of 2 teenagers, your daughter will more that likely grow out of this, but in order for that to happen you both need to be more approachable, calm, supportive and above all forgiving and able to accept no one is perfect, not even you both. And loosing ones temper or being angry is not the way to get through this.

LegacyUser

Let's see what you make of this one!

I have just realised my daughter took my make-up AGAIN without asking for permission, and brought it to school with her. So I am without it to go to work! I teach adults and need to look as polished as possible...

When it has happened before several times, I asked her if she had taken it, she denied it flatly, then I would find it in her bag!
It has happened three times already, I laughed the third time it was so ridiculous, while making it clear I don't accept her taking my stuff without asking for permission (she has taken LOTS!), AND not returning it (stealing it, in other words) and I certainly don't accept her lying about it when asked nicely, saying she doesn't have it!

She can/should buy her own!

BTW I disagree with her putting on layers of foundation or powder at her age, but I can't do much about it, it's so common among her age group unfortunately.
A little lipgloss or mascara or even eyeliner is Ok though, but it's bad to cover one's whole face like that at 13! (Heavy make-up in teens, even fake tans and bleached hair in some, is not something I'm used to from my home country - France)

Should I laugh it off again?

nowayjosie

Tearingourhairout wrote: »

Let's see what you make of this one!

I have just realised my daughter took my make-up AGAIN without asking for permission, and brought it to school with her. So I am without it to go to work! I teach adults and need to look as polished as possible...

When it has happened before several times, I asked her if she had taken it, she denied it flatly, then I would find it in her bag!
It has happened three times already, I laughed the third time it was so ridiculous, while making it clear I don't accept her taking my stuff without asking for permission (she has taken LOTS!), AND not returning it (stealing it, in other words) and I certainly don't accept her lying about it when asked nicely, saying she doesn't have it!

She can/should buy her own!

BTW I disagree with her putting on layers of foundation or powder at her age, but I can't do much about it, it's so common among her age group unfortunately.
A little lipgloss or mascara or even eyeliner is Ok though, but it's bad to cover one's whole face like that at 13! (Heavy make-up in teens, even fake tans and bleached hair in some, is not something I'm used to from my home country - France)

Should I laugh it off again?

In a word YES

I'm sorry i just cannot take you seriously anymore in light of your last sentence - you seem to be shocked that a teenage girl would want to wear make-up.

What do you mean your not used to this your from France, Wow, did you know besides wearing make-up in France that:--

France like all other countries have cities full of strip clubs, lapdance clubs, prostitution, violence, murder and robberies to mention a few. I don't believe a 13yr old wearing make-up tops any of the above mentioned.

Most people in Ireland would have assumed that France was a very cosmopolitan country, I'd never have guessed it would be unheard of for a 13year old to wear make-up!! WOW

Maybe the problem is that you need to grow up, I personally will not respond to any more of your posts, but i do wish you and your family the very best.