Charge Sheet

Aussie201

Hi all,

If your not issued with a copy of a charge sheet outlining what your being charged with, can/will you still be sent a summons to appear in court?

Zambia

Dont the two arrive at once charge and summons?

Aussie201

No, according to the citizensinformation site, when arrested you should be told what you are being charged with and the details be recorded on a sheet and you are to be given a copy of this charge sheet when your released from the station.
But what confuses me is that after approx 7 months after the alleged offence was committed, a nice summons is delivered to appear in court next monday.

Surely they cannot just decide to charge one with the offence out of nowhere..
The summons was dated 7 months from the offence date. I was under the assumption that when the offence has been committed they must decide to charge you then and there, or prepare a case for the DPP within a 6 month time frame?

Frynge

What was the crime and more Importantly the statue of limitations

Milk & Honey

You can be released without charge and summoned after. Often happens. You can request disclosure of evidence before trial.

source

Aussie201 wrote: »

No, according to the citizensinformation site, when arrested you should be told what you are being charged with and the details be recorded on a sheet and you are to be given a copy of this charge sheet when your released from the station.
But what confuses me is that after approx 7 months after the alleged offence was committed, a nice summons is delivered to appear in court next monday.

Surely they cannot just decide to charge one with the offence out of nowhere..
The summons was dated 7 months from the offence date. I was under the assumption that when the offence has been committed they must decide to charge you then and there, or prepare a case for the DPP within a 6 month time frame?

It depends on the offence and it is one or the other, not both. I think you're getting confused here. When arrested you will be read your notice of rights, and told the offence you have been arrested for in plain language.

Depending on the offence you may be detained and questioned, If the member who arrested you believes he has enough evidence from questioning you then he may charge you there and then. If he doesn't believe he has enough evidence, he may release you without charge pending further investigation.

If he does this, again depending on the offence he has a set period of time to complete the investigation (statute of limitations). If after further investigation he believes that he has the right man, he may arrest you for the purpose of charging, or summons you to court at a later date.

bath handle

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. A summons for a summary offence simply has to be applied for within 6 months off the date off the alleged offence. it may be issued and served after the 6 months. it frequently happens that the first appearance in court is 9 or 10 months after the date off the alleged offence.

Zambia

Aussie201 wrote: »

No, according to the citizensinformation site, when arrested you should be told what you are being charged with and the details be recorded on a sheet and you are to be given a copy of this charge sheet when your released from the station.
But what confuses me is that after approx 7 months after the alleged offence was committed, a nice summons is delivered to appear in court next monday.

Surely they cannot just decide to charge one with the offence out of nowhere..
The summons was dated 7 months from the offence date. I was under the assumption that when the offence has been committed they must decide to charge you then and there, or prepare a case for the DPP within a 6 month time frame?

Really could you link that? Because it sounds a little weird.

Aussie201

Frynge wrote: »

What was the crime and more Importantly the statue of limitations

[mod] {SNIP} Breach of Legal Advice Rule [/mod] As far as im aware the is a summary offence, which has a 6 months limit.

source wrote: »

It depends on the offence and it is one or the other, not both. I think you're getting confused here. When arrested you will be read your notice of rights, and told the offence you have been arrested for in plain language.

Depending on the offence you may be detained and questioned, If the member who arrested you believes he has enough evidence from questioning you then he may charge you there and then. If he doesn't believe he has enough evidence, he may release you without charge pending further investigation.

If he does this, again depending on the offence he has a set period of time to complete the investigation (statute of limitations). If after further investigation he believes that he has the right man, he may arrest you for the purpose of charging, or summons you to court at a later date.

[mod] {SNIP} Breach of Legal Advice Rule [/mod] It's a straight forward case, she gave good reasons why she had it [mod] (pepper spray, lets leave it at that) [/mod]. It was given to her by a friend and not bought. She never knew it was illegal and admits that she is completely at fault for having it.

bath handle wrote: »

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. A summons for a summary offence simply has to be applied for within 6 months off the date off the alleged offence. it may be issued and served after the 6 months. it frequently happens that the first appearance in court is 9 or 10 months after the date off the alleged offence.

You can't contest a case in court if your dead. She had appropriate reasons, I'm not saying it was legal, but me personally i'd prefer to be alive and explain my actions in court then be dead or seriously injured in hospital.

With most of the criminals arming themselves with bats, bars, even stun guns these days, I don't see how it's fair that an ordinary law abiding citizen has no way to defend against these criminals on the street or even driving your car and we're all just expected to run away and ring the guards, and when they do arrive 30 mins later all they do is take a statement and that's the end of it. I mean one could learn Martial arts, but how would it compete to a a guy twice your size and with huge muscles.
You could have one of those useless personal alarms,but nobody would realise what it would be, nobody even takes notice of car alarms that go off or house alarms.

Irish Law has to be modernised according to today's criminals, times are nowhere near the same as the 1940's..

Aussie201

Zambia wrote: »

Really could you link that? Because it sounds a little weird.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/arrests.html

"Manner of Arrest
Force can only be used to make an arrest if it is absolutely necessary.

When a Garda arrests you, he or she will actually touch your body or otherwise restrain your liberty. If you are arrested on a criminal charge, you must be informed at the time you are arrested of the charge unless this is very clear (for example, if you are arrested while committing an offence).

After you have been charged, the Garda must caution you with the following words: "You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so, but whatever you say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence."

When you are brought to the Garda station, details of the offence must be set out in a 'charge sheet'. A copy of the details must be given to you. The Garda will formally charge you by reading each charge over to you and you will be cautioned after each charge is read out. The Garda must keep a note of any reply you make."

Zambia

Yeah I think the criminal charge in Ireland is classed as an Indictable and has other ramifications. The charge you OH is charged with is as you said summary.

I am sort of uneasy about going into this further as this case appears to be before the courts and not decided. You should request this thread deleted maybe re-submitted in a less detailed form.

source

That's a very serious offence, not at all as simple as you're making it out to be. If your wife winds up in the circuit court she is looking at up to 5 years imprisonment. In the District Court she's looking at up to 12 months and or a €1000 fine.

In this country pepper spray is classed as a firearm. If you don't agree with that you can lobby your local TD to change the laws or you can move to a country that allows pepper spray to be carried, but in the mean time, carrying an unauthorised and illegal weapon in this country is a very serious offence.

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.


(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.


(4) Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him), has with him in any public place—


(a) any flick-knife, or


(b) any other article whatsoever made or adapted for use for causing injury to or incapacitating a person,


he shall be guilty of an offence.


(5) Where a person has with him in any public place any article intended by him unlawfully to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate any person either in a particular eventuality or otherwise, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(6) In a prosecution for an offence under subsection (5), it shall not be necessary for the prosecution to allege or prove that the intent to cause injury, incapacitate or intimidate was intent to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate a particular person; and if, having regard to all the circumstances (including the type of the article alleged to have been intended to cause injury, incapacitate or intimidate, the time of the day or night, and the place), the court (or the jury as the case may be) thinks it reasonable to do so, it may regard possession of the article as sufficient evidence of intent in the absence of any adequate explanation by the accused.


(7) (a) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months or to both.


(b) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (4) or (5) shall be liable—


(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months or to both, or


(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both.


(8) In this section “public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise, and includes any club premises and any train, vessel or vehicle used for the carriage of persons for reward.


(9) In this section “flick-knife” means a knife—


(a) which has a blade which opens when hand pressure is applied to a button, spring, lever or other device in or attached to the handle, or


(b) which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and when released is locked in an open position by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.

Aussie201

http://www.corkman.ie/news/lithuanian-men-caught-stealing-from-charity-clothes-bank-2871294.html

more like a 200 euro fine and he was in the process of committing an offence aswell.

source

Aussie201 wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/arrests.html

"Manner of Arrest
Force can only be used to make an arrest if it is absolutely necessary.

When a Garda arrests you, he or she will actually touch your body or otherwise restrain your liberty. If you are arrested on a criminal charge, you must be informed at the time you are arrested of the charge unless this is very clear (for example, if you are arrested while committing an offence).

After you have been charged, the Garda must caution you with the following words: "You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so, but whatever you say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence."

When you are brought to the Garda station, details of the offence must be set out in a 'charge sheet'. A copy of the details must be given to you. The Garda will formally charge you by reading each charge over to you and you will be cautioned after each charge is read out. The Garda must keep a note of any reply you make."

Again as I said earlier, charging is one route that AGS can take when dealing with a suspect, people can also be dealt with by way of summons, caution, fixed charge penalty etc etc etc.

It's not as black an white as what you've quoted above.

Edit: what you have quoted is 100% correct, if you are being dealt with by way of charge. If you're being released and summonsed, you will be arrested, cautioned, given notice of rights, held, questioned, released, summons in post.....get a solicitor.

source

source wrote: »

That's a very serious offence, not at all as simple as you're making it out to be. If your wife winds up in the circuit court she is looking at up to 5 years imprisonment. In the District Court she's looking at up to 12 months and or a €1000 fine.

In this country pepper spray is classed as a firearm. If you don't agree with that you can lobby your local TD to change the laws or you can move to a country that allows pepper spray to be carried, but in the mean time, carrying an unauthorised and illegal weapon in this country is a very serious offence.

Aussie201 wrote: »

http://www.corkman.ie/news/lithuanian-men-caught-stealing-from-charity-clothes-bank-2871294.html

more like a 200 euro fine and he was in the process of committing an offence aswell.

I've highlighted the relevant part in my post, the sentence depends on circumstances, and also the judge on the day.

Aussie201

Will let ye know of the outcome anyhow.

MagicSean

Why 2 cans of it?

Aussie201

Her friend gave her 2, one was for her car and the other in the house but she always forgot to take it out of the car.

Zaharof

source wrote: »

That's a very serious offence, not at all as simple as you're making it out to be. If your wife winds up in the circuit court she is looking at up to 5 years imprisonment. In the District Court she's looking at up to 12 months and or a €1000 fine.

In this country pepper spray is classed as a firearm. If you don't agree with that you can lobby your local TD to change the laws or you can move to a country that allows pepper spray to be carried, but in the mean time, carrying an unauthorised and illegal weapon in this country is a very serious offence.

Hi all.
New here. It may be a bit worse as whilst covered in Firearms and Offensive weapons act, the part of having in a public place without good reason or lawful authority as above there is also the question of the mere possesion of the spray which is as rightly pointed out a firearm in law in its own respect:
Criminal Justice Act 2006: “ prohibited weapon ” means and includes any weapon of whatever description designed for the discharge of any noxious liquid, noxious gas or other noxious thing, and also any ammunition (whether for any such weapon or any other weapon) which contains or is designed or adapted to contain any noxious liquid, noxious gas or other noxious thing;
And:
“(2A) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section is liable—

(a) in case the firearm is a restricted firearm or the ammunition is restricted ammunition—

(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €20,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or both,

and

(b) in any other case—

(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.”,

Edit: That said a slap on wrist is likely

Aussie201

The law really should be updated! Thank you all for your inputs.

MagicSean

Aussie201 wrote: »

The law really should be updated! Thank you all for your inputs.

The law is fine as it is.