Acts of deliberate contempt towards cyclists

Iwannahurl

A post in the Galway City forum prompted me to start this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75372466&postcount=34

It made me wonder how frequent are such acts of deliberate contempt towards cyclists.

I have had water thrown at me, followed by the water bottle, by a bunch of gurriers speeding up a dark narrow road.

More recently, my sister-in-law had an egg thrown at her a few months ago while cycling in broad daylight, again by the occupants of a speeding car. It smashed into her face and left her shocked and in pain. She was too stunned to get their reg.

Has anyone else experienced similar physical abuse or apparent displays of contempt? I'm not including driving offences in this, eg dangerous overtaking, as this could be classed as 'normal' bad driving in Ireland.

I might add a poll to this thread, if that is a runner.

tomasrojo

I was going through a patch there where I had stuff thrown out of car windows at me every few months. It's calmed down now. I think I haven't had anything thrown at me in over a year now.

kincsem

A few years ago I was hit with an empty plastic bottle thrown by young lads speeding near Roundwood.
young, male, group, drunk, speeding, unemployed, undereducated ... most of these feature.

petethedrummer

I keep getting admiring looks thrown at me.

uberwolf

a thread some time ago started by a lad pushed off his bike on the strawberry beds featured a number of reports of assault by passing motorists.

Jawgap

some of the cycle lanes have to represent deliberate acts of contempt!

This is also a further opportunity for me to relate the story of a friend who had a dog thrown at him.....

From my own experience, being sprayed with coke on a hot day has probably been the most unpleasant thing flung at me while on the bike.........second would be the "nice arse" compliment I got once only to look back and see it was delivered by a group of girls who looked like they were from the pages of Viz (in my mind's eye I had envisaged a statuesque blond).

Iwannahurl

uberwolf wrote: »

a thread some time ago started by a lad pushed off his bike on the strawberry beds featured a number of reports of assault by passing motorists.

This one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055253942

The thread mentions roaring at cyclists out of car windows, just for shock value.

I had a bunch of twenty-something d:ckheads do that to me once. As often happens, I caught up with them at traffic lights a few minutes later. I cycled up beside the driver's open window and shouted something silly like 'boo' very loudly, and got a very satisfying reaction.

Cookie_Monster

been slapped across the back of the head by some tool on a motorbike.

have had a couple of drivers scream abuse out the window, demanding I move over tot he edge of the road...

HivemindXX

I explained to someone before that this is mostly about the vermin that do this sort of thing and little to do with the victim. If there were no cyclists they'd find someone else to pull this crap on.

I think you should always report incidents where something is thrown at you to the local guards. Serious injury can be caused and I think it's worthwhile for the guards to know there's a pattern of activity.

victorcarrera

On a group spin last winter we had a bottle thrown at us from a car going in the other direction but it dropped short and hit the road in front of us.
Two separate incidents of unprovoked verbal abuse from the occupants of a car with L plates recently. On one occasion they were driving in the opposite direction. I got the registration and reported it to traffic watch and I now I am waiting to make an official statement at the local station.
I've been down this route before and even if there is no successful prosecution at least the registered owner has to respond to the statement.
I would encourage cyclists to report these incidents and follow them up. It doesn't take a lot of time and in most cases I would say it makes them cop on.
I think most of it is due to the perception of anonymity that comes from the baseball hat and hoodie culture. Some of these young males also seem to have inherited a very strong herding instinct. I guess dogs will bark.
Garda Traffic Watch 1890 205 805. Put it in your phone.

E34

While cycling in South Dublin a few years ago, I was shot in the arse with a pellet gun from the rear passenger window of an overtaking car. Funny now, but stung like hell at the time.

RobertFoster

Luckily nothing's been thrown at me. Some guy did shout something out of his passenger window at me once but I didn't catch it. I think it was something along the lines of "You're all over the road!" as I had moved (not swerved) left to avoid a deeply recessed manhole cover.

I have experienced contemptuous "I'm-gonna-be-first!!" attitudes however. Like most recently I was overtaken and then cut across less than 20m from a roundabout. I was in the middle of the lane and doing a fair speed, but the guy still decided to take me, even with an island in the way.

Rhand

Holy crap, I've been cycling for 20 years now in Belgium and the worst I've ever got was a honk from an impatient cardriver.
Guess getting adjusted to driving on the other side of the road won't be the only thing I have to do.

fran oconnor

Iwannahurl wrote: »

This one: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055253942

The thread mentions roaring at cyclists out of car windows, just for shock value.

I had a bunch of twenty-something d:ckheads do that to me once. As often happens, I caught up with them at traffic lights a few minutes later. I cycled up beside the driver's open window and shouted something silly like 'boo' very loudly, and got a very satisfying reaction.

I got a nice reaction also when i emptied a full bottle of Lucazade in the window of some boy racer.

Beasty

Around 2-3 years ago I had an incident where someone hung themselves outside the passenger window of a car to slap me as they drove past. TBH it was as much the shock of it that could have made me crash - fortunately I stayed upright though

Mr. Presentable

The demographic of people who assault cyclists tend to be fairly constant.

Late teens/early twenties in their first car, lads, usually in pack. They're the same ones who think donutting at the crossroads is cool. I think the collective noun is Louts.

seamus

I was pushed off earlier this year as a car drove past. Scummer hung his entire upper body out of the passenger window to get at me. I have recurring fantasies where I managed to brake instead and the scummer fell out of the window and under the back wheels of the car. Sadly, that's not what happened.

Seems to be something mostly confined to groups of young scum driving around in Civics and the likes or people driving around in vans.

PCPhoto

in all of the cases mentioned it is clear that the motorists involved are young dumb and probably driving illegally (or under mammy and daddy's insurance)

as has already been mentioned - get the reg and report it.

(I'm not a cyclists - I'm a car driver but really dislike the amount of bad drivers/uneducated drivers on the roads)

Personally I think the Gardai* are at fault for not obiding by the traffic laws themselves and also because they do not enforce the traffic laws (this would make people behave properly if the risk of getting caught was high)

*I know the Gardai are understaffed but when the ones out there turn a blind eye because its too much hassle/time to prosecute then they let drivers think that its acceptable to do it. (this means driving in Bus lanes/cycle lanes and parking in them as well... there are other things but too many to list out to be honest)

kildare.17hmr

iv seen things thrown at groups of cyclests in the past, once it was a bottle and one of them got hit in the head and and skidded along the ground:eek: i ended up giving him and his bike a lift to the next petrol station.

Have to say tho i hate coming up behind groups of ya's on the road, most of the time they are 3 wide and going so bloody slow and you cant pass because of bad or narrow roads! Why cant ya's go single file?

PCPhoto

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

The demographic of people who assault cyclists tend to be fairly constant.

Late teens/early twenties in their first car, lads, usually in pack. They're the same ones who think donutting at the crossroads is cool. I think the collective noun is Scum/Pr1cks Louts.

FYP

Alkers

Have had beer cans and eggs thrown at me but I don't think the majority of there events are picking on cyclists on purpose, they are just out to cause mischief and would also throw stuff at pedestrians, drive through puddles to splash people etc

-K2-

On Sunday night I was cycling through Clonskeagh had some gouger in a skangermobile heading the opposite direction hang out the window while shouting something like "gahahagabanaagaa saving the fooking whales gahahagabanaagaa" at me.

I laughed.

oflahero

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

most of the time they are 3 wide

This is simply not true, and I think you know you're exaggerating for effect. While club group spins try to abide by the ROTR with the max of 2 abreast, group discipline occasionally wanders and people space out a bit, giving the illusion that the group is all over the shop. Almost always someone will bark out an order to tighten up and, if the road is narrow with cars trying to pass, to single out for a while.

Non-club spinners may of course be honked at with impunity.

hardCopy

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Why cant ya's go single file?

There is a school of thought which says that drivers will try to pass a single cyclist regardless of whether it is safe to do so.

Whereas they are more likely to wait for a safe passing opportunity if the cyclists are two abreast.

Cyclists are legally allowed to cycle two abreast.

oflahero

-K2- wrote: »

On Sunday night I was cycling through Clonskeagh had some gouger in a skangermobile heading the opposite direction hang out the window while shouting something like "gahahagabanaagaa saving the fooking whales gahahagabanaagaa" at me.

I laughed.

Yesterday, commuting to work along Kilmacud Rd Upper, a woman walking in the opposite direction on the footpath was half-singing/half-shouting at herself. As I passed, she looked me in the eyes and yelled "NAZI!!"

Ich lachte.

Tenzor07

Rhand wrote: »

Holy crap, I've been cycling for 20 years now in Belgium and the worst I've ever got was a honk from an impatient cardriver.
Guess getting adjusted to driving on the other side of the road won't be the only thing I have to do.

Countries like Belgium and Holland have a far far greater respect for cyclists than in Ireland/UK...

For example Cyclo-Cross in Belgium is as highly regarded as Soccer here..
And in the big cities of Holland the bike is King...

It's all part of the "Yob-Culture" in Ireland.. We all know the type: Young-Males hanging out of Passat's with Blacked out windows...Just have to watch out for them...

Oryx

I had a guy say rude things to me over a loudspeaker once as he passed in a jeep. Ive had young lads shout out the windows. Nothing thrown thank god. Been honked at a good bit, even when I didnt deserve it. . I only ride on rural roads which probably saves hassle, but I get a lot of bad driving, pulling out across me, not leaving space and nearly swiping me with a wing mirror. Also had a car coming towards me on a narrow road pass a van as they met me, nowhere to go but the ditch. Scared the bejesus out of me.

07Lapierre

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

iv seen things thrown at groups of cyclests in the past, once it was a bottle and one of them got hit in the head and and skidded along the ground:eek: i ended up giving him and his bike a lift to the next petrol station.

Have to say tho i hate coming up behind groups of ya's on the road, most of the time they are 3 wide and going so bloody slow and you cant pass because of bad or narrow roads! Why cant ya's go single file?

You can't blame the cyclists for the state of the roads!. It Might also explain why they are cycling slowly (though 28-30klm is slow in a car, its pretty good goin on a bike!)

Gauge

-K2- wrote: »

On Sunday night I was cycling through Clonskeagh had some gouger in a skangermobile heading the opposite direction hang out the window while shouting something like "gahahagabanaagaa saving the fooking whales gahahagabanaagaa" at me.

I laughed.

Likewise, the worst I've had shouted at me was "G'WAN LANCE" roared out the window one evening. That's almost a compliment... right?

I've only been commuting a few months on my bike so I haven't experienced much deliberate contempt (yet!) Only the odd beep from impatient drivers and taxis zipping past me with a few inches to spare, no slaps or random object missiles. But I've known a fair few cyclists who've been at it much longer and have several stories to tell about getting slapped/bottled/egged.

kildare.17hmr

oflahero wrote: »

This is simply not true, and I think you know you're exaggerating for effect. While club group spins try to abide by the ROTR with the max of 2 abreast, group discipline occasionally wanders and people space out a bit, giving the illusion that the group is all over the shop. Almost always someone will bark out an order to tighten up and, if the road is narrow with cars trying to pass, to single out for a while.

Non-club spinners may of course be honked at with impunity.

Aflahero i wouldnt of said it if it was not true:rolleyes: the most recent one was sunday morning on the old n4 to kinegad, 3 bikes wide and probably 4 long. the road was busy enough so i couldnt pass for a while altho it is a wide road.

hardCopy wrote: »

There is a school of thought which says that drivers will try to pass a single cyclist regardless of whether it is safe to do so.

Whereas they are more likely to wait for a safe passing opportunity if the cyclists are two abreast.

Cyclists are legally allowed to cycle two abreast.

Id say thats true alot of the time alrite

dave_o_brien

PCPhoto wrote: »

in all of the cases mentioned it is clear that the motorists involved are young dumb and probably driving illegally (or under mammy and daddy's insurance)

as has already been mentioned - get the reg and report it.

(I'm not a cyclists - I'm a car driver but really dislike the amount of bad drivers/uneducated drivers on the roads)

Personally I think the Gardai* are at fault for not obiding by the traffic laws themselves and also because they do not enforce the traffic laws (this would make people behave properly if the risk of getting caught was high)

*I know the Gardai are understaffed but when the ones out there turn a blind eye because its too much hassle/time to prosecute then they let drivers think that its acceptable to do it. (this means driving in Bus lanes/cycle lanes and parking in them as well... there are other things but too many to list out to be honest)

Can we have more of your attitude, please?!

Also, the worst I've had thrown at me was a shout of "look, it's Stephen Kelly!" by a drunk outside Croker after a match, which made me laugh. Some intentional bad driving, alright: driving too close, cutting off, edging to the kerb, etc, but no intentional contact. Had a snowball thrown at me once, but it missed.

On the other hand, I've had a bottle of Club Orange and an egg thrown at me while walking, so I don't think it's cyclists they're singling out, it's just that they're gobsh*tes.

L1011

eggs, bottles, etc get thrown at people walking as well, its not an anti-cyclist thing; just a scumbag thing.

Bunnyhopper

HivemindXX wrote: »

If there were no cyclists they'd find someone else to pull this crap on.

I was out on Monday evening when a car slowed down as it passed me and the passenger leaned out to shout some abuse at me. I think he was trying to startle me for a laugh. I wasn't on a bike at the time, I was just walking along the footpath.

Also, adding to what MYOB said, when I'm out walking I do sometimes see the remains of eggs splattered across the footpath.

funkyjebus

As I pulled up to the lights a driver (male, as am i) slapped my was, I asked wtf, he said something like nice bike to get a laugh out of his mates in the car with him. I agreed it was a nice bike and suggested he get himself one to lose some weight which got a very satisfying laugh from his mates.

As I took off from the light he caught up with me in the lane beside and then suddenly turned into my lane to knock me down. He missed, such are my ninja skills. I stopped, got witnesses as he ran through the next lights.

Got all info and wrote up a statement and went to the gardai who did nothing.

What a d1ck

Bunnyhopper

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

3 bikes wide and probably 4 long.

That's 12 bikes. If they go single-file they'll each take up a length of about 2m, allowing for small separations between them, so that's a total combined length of 24m to be overtaken in one go, and if you're driving safely then you'll have to pull out far enough to leave a safe space. That will mean moving across at least partly into the oncoming lane and so you'll need a break in oncoming traffic, just as you would if they were riding two- or three-abreast though in this case you'll need a much longer break.

So you can move out and pass a "vehicle" that's 8m long or one that's 24m long. I know which I'd prefer. Of course, faced with riders in single file some drivers won't move over to leave enough space but will instead skim by too close: that's one reason why single file can be a bad idea.

doozerie

kildare.17hmr wrote:

iv seen things thrown at groups of cyclests in the past, once it was a bottle and one of them got hit in the head and and skidded along the ground i ended up giving him and his bike a lift to the next petrol station.

Have to say tho i hate coming up behind groups of ya's on the road, most of the time they are 3 wide and going so bloody slow and you cant pass because of bad or narrow roads! Why cant ya's go single file?

I think your post is representative of an approach which is at the root of the problem of a lot of grief/aggro on the roads. In your first paragraph you describe a scenario where you saw a cyclist victimised and you helped them (fair play for doing so, by the way, not everyone would). In your second paragraph though you describe a situation that is inconvenient to you and express frustration at it and in doing so you fall on the side of labeling cyclists in general as a problem. So you'll go out of your way to help an individual cyclist but looking at the more abstract group, "cyclists", skews your perspective to the point where cyclists are a problem.

I'm not singling you out, by the way, I think we all do it to some extent or another, me included. It's just as evident when another group, say taxi drivers, are mentioned and I imagine most people have had non-antagonistic (maybe even pleasant!) experiences with individual taxi drivers but have taxi drivers as a group assigned to the category of (one of) least favourite road user in their heads. We seem to be able to empathise with others only in select circumstances and the rest of the time we'd be as likely to stamp on them as anything else. Some of the more aggressive types that have been mentioned in this thread already (those who throw things at cyclists, etc.) are the extreme example of that mindset, but the problem is much wider than that. Too many situations on the road become instantly antagonistic when someone overreacts (and again I include myself in that), when a cooler head would lead to a very different result and altogether less stress and bitterness.

Highway_To_Hell

not only cyclists get abused, have to feel sorry for people at bus stops

gibraltar

Water, coke bottles and newspapers are the main things that have been thrown at me, some abuse too.

I have found along the canal at night to be the worst place, I managed to catchup to the cars at the next set of lights a few times only to be met with a car filled with very quiet people unable to look left.

I gave up on that after I pulled alongside a car filled with lads who then broke the red light and took a right turn over the bridge without even looking, I avoid the canal now.

bikenut

Cycling up Newtownpark avenue two abreast with my wife a few Sundays ago at 10:00am (hardly a busy time) when a squad car pulls up along side us and the guard shouts across in the most irate voice "SINGLE FILE - SINGLE FILE" :rolleyes:

Jagle

bikenut wrote: »

Cycling up Newtownpark avenue two abreast with my wife a few Sundays ago at 10:00am (hardly a busy time) when a squad car pulls up along side us and the guard shouts across in the most irate voice "SINGLE FILE - SINGLE FILE" :rolleyes:

please tell me you correct him?

Needabike

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_other-road-users.html


Says we MUST cycle single file if we are "inconveniencing" traffic


BIG SURPRISE TO ME ?

Morlar

I was in a Garda station once filling in forms when a cyclist came in and reported that somone had just used a fishing rod to hook into his leg as he was going past and then yank the rod back, apparently he was not the first cyclist that day that this happened to.

Having said that while I was there a polish couple were in to report a mugging minutes beforehand so I think it was more a case of general scumbaggery than hostility directed specifically at cyclists.

doozerie

bikenut wrote: »

Cycling up Newtownpark avenue two abreast with my wife a few Sundays ago at 10:00am (hardly a busy time) when a squad car pulls up along side us and the guard shouts across in the most irate voice "SINGLE FILE - SINGLE FILE" :rolleyes:

I hope you replied "No, MARRIED FILE - MARRIED FILE"

seamus

Needabike wrote: »

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-pedestrians-cyclists-motorcyclists/cyclists/cyclists_other-road-users.html


Says we MUST cycle single file if we are "inconveniencing" traffic


BIG SURPRISE TO ME ?

This is actually an error in the rules of the road, a misinterpretation of the law. The law requires that cyclists may cycle more than two abreast if one cyclist is overtaking the other two (or two overtaking one), but only if by doing so they're not causing an obstruction.

This has been widely misinterpreted to mean that cyclists must ride in single file if they are causing an obstruction.

Cameron Poe

seamus wrote: »

This is actually an error in the rules of the road, a misinterpretation of the law. The law requires that cyclists may cycle more than two abreast if one cyclist is overtaking the other two (or two overtaking one), but only if by doing so they're not causing an obstruction.

This has been widely misinterpreted to mean that cyclists must ride in single file if they are causing an obstruction.

Surely it's just good manners to cycle in single file if causing an obstruction.

CramCycle

Simona1986 wrote: »

Have had beer cans and eggs thrown at me but I don't think the majority of there events are picking on cyclists on purpose, they are just out to cause mischief and would also throw stuff at pedestrians, drive through puddles to splash people etc

Mischief that has blinded one lady in Blackrock (a nurse I think, the egg shattered in her eye), left my flatmate with no visibility for a month (hit straight in the eye and it swelled up to cover his entire eye.

It may be intended as mischief but it has some serious consequences.

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Aflahero i wouldnt of said it if it was not true:rolleyes: the most recent one was sunday morning on the old n4 to kinegad, 3 bikes wide and probably 4 long. the road was busy enough so i couldnt pass for a while altho it is a wide road.

If the road was that busy you shouldn't have attempted an overtake till it was clearer anyway, you should be thankful they stopped you doing anything wreckless.

CramCycle

Cameron Poe wrote: »

Surely it's just good manners to cycle in single file if causing an obstruction.

if it is causing an obstruction when cycling side by side, it will most likely be causing an obstruction in single file, the difference is a driver is more likely to notice it is unsafe if they are cycling two abreast whereas if they are only single file, they may in fact take the risk without realising it is a risk.

tomasrojo

seamus wrote: »

This is actually an error in the rules of the road, a misinterpretation of the law. The law requires that cyclists may cycle more than two abreast if one cyclist is overtaking the other two (or two overtaking one), but only if by doing so they're not causing an obstruction.

This has been widely misinterpreted to mean that cyclists must ride in single file if they are causing an obstruction.

I remember the relevant statute being parsed quite finely here. Much discussion of parenthetical commas and clauses.

07Lapierre

CramCycle wrote: »

if it is causing an obstruction when cycling side by side, it will most likely be causing an obstruction in single file, the difference is a driver is more likely to notice it is unsafe if they are cycling two abreast whereas if they are only single file, they may in fact take the risk without realising it is a risk.

+1 Try this cycling home tonight. Imagine your cycling with someone and they are on your left. You'll notice that you take up about the same amount of road space as you would if there were two cyclists. No real difference.

The point I'm making is that motorists "think" there path is obstucted, when if fact its not.

Jawgap

Safety first - convenience second (by a long shot!)

Cameron Poe

CramCycle wrote: »

if it is causing an obstruction when cycling side by side, it will most likely be causing an obstruction in single file, the difference is a driver is more likely to notice it is unsafe if they are cycling two abreast whereas if they are only single file, they may in fact take the risk without realising it is a risk.

I don't think that's a particularly good attitude to take to be honest. Frustrating motorists behind you is more likely to make them attempt a reckless overtake at the first opportunity they get if it has been going on for an extended period of time.

I think motorists and cyclists alike need to have a bit more respect for each other. Basic manners are severely lacking on both side unfortunately.