Two ex-gardaí jailed over Waterford assault

msg11

Anyone know the circumstances surrounding this case, what happened during the assault ? Pretty heavy sentences. I know they are Garda and are there to uphold the law, but if it was the other way around and it was the Garda that were attacked the people involved get a sniff at a sentence as long.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1107/holnessa.html

hardybuck

The guy who was assaulted was urinating up a quiet street near main nightlife district in the early hours.

Hickey attempted to arrest the victim, who did resist and was abusive. He pepper sprayed him and got him in a headlock. While he had control of him on the ground he kicked and punched him several times in the back of the head.

While he was face down on the ground McEnery arrived and dished out at least 6 punches. Kissane arrived at the same time but was found innocent of the charges.

Burke was back in the station, and perverted the course of justice by moving the Garda CCTV camera away from the incident on two occasions.

While most people understand that there is some need for reasonable force to be used, this was thuggery. Also the fact that Burke tried to cover up the incident twice is pretty sinister also.

Tac

hardybuck wrote: »

The guy who was assaulted was urinating up a quiet street near main nightlife district in the early hours.

Hickey attempted to arrest the victim, who did resist and was abusive. He pepper sprayed him and got him in a headlock. While he had control of him on the ground he kicked and punched him several times in the back of the head.

While he was face down on the ground McEnery arrived and dished out at least 6 punches. Kissane arrived at the same time but was found innocent of the charges.

Burke was back in the station, and perverted the course of justice by moving the Garda CCTV camera away from the incident on two occasions.

While most people understand that there is some need for reasonable force to be used, this was thuggery. Also the fact that Burke tried to cover up the incident twice is pretty sinister also.

agreed, no excuse for that behaviour. still have great time for the Gardai though, onely this few let themselves down.

Geansai

It seems unusual for a Garda to receive a prison sentene for doing their job, even it they were excessively heavy handed.


It highlights to me the differnce between the off duty garda who got in a fight on the Grand Parade in Cork and sent his opponent/victim to hospital with a broken nose, fractures to his cheekbones, broken teeth and bleeding to the brain. In that case he was left off without any prison time.

My understanding is that the victim in this case had no serious or lasting injuries.

Does it make the event more serious that the Garda was on duty at the time? In my opinion this should not matter.

kerry4sam

msg11 wrote: »

Anyone know the circumstances surrounding this case, what happened during the assault ? Pretty heavy sentences. I know they are Garda and are there to uphold the law, but if it was the other way around and it was the Garda that were attacked the people involved get a sniff at a sentence as long.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1107/holnessa.html

Thankfully cases like this are few and far between and is in NO WAY a reflection of the majority of guards out there who do uphold the law fairly and honestly both on and off-duty daily.

ANSI

msg11 wrote: »

Anyone know the circumstances surrounding this case, what happened during the assault ? Pretty heavy sentences. I know they are Garda and are there to uphold the law, but if it was the other way around and it was the Garda that were attacked the people involved get a sniff at a sentence as long.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1107/holnessa.html

I think they should have got a longer sentence

ANSI

Geansai wrote: »

It seems unusual for a Garda to receive a prison sentene for doing their job, even it they were excessively heavy handed.


It highlights to me the differnce between the off duty garda who got in a fight on the Grand Parade in Cork and sent his opponent/victim to hospital with a broken nose, fractures to his cheekbones, broken teeth and bleeding to the brain. In that case he was left off without any prison time.

My understanding is that the victim in this case had no serious or lasting injuries.

Does it make the event more serious that the Garda was on duty at the time? In my opinion this should not matter.

is that what you call it LOL

ANSI

hardybuck wrote: »

The guy who was assaulted was urinating up a quiet street near main nightlife district in the early hours.

Hickey attempted to arrest the victim, who did resist and was abusive. He pepper sprayed him and got him in a headlock. While he had control of him on the ground he kicked and punched him several times in the back of the head.

While he was face down on the ground McEnery arrived and dished out at least 6 punches. Kissane arrived at the same time but was found innocent of the charges.

Burke was back in the station, and perverted the course of justice by moving the Garda CCTV camera away from the incident on two occasions.

While most people understand that there is some need for reasonable force to be used, this was thuggery. Also the fact that Burke tried to cover up the incident twice is pretty sinister also.

+ 1

archer22

Hallelujah an honest Judge at last..never thought I would see that in Ireland.She should be appointed to hear all cases involving those blue suited thugs and thieves.

msg11

ANSI wrote: »

I think they should have got a longer sentence

My point is why are attacks towards emergency services very lax, a few Garda step out of line and there getting 3,4 years, without a conviction in the past.

Yet a scummer (not the guy the bet the **** out of) who attacks them with convictions up too his eye balls is giving a 6-12 month suspended sentence if even that.

It's in a sense quite unfair if you ask me, the Garda have lost there jobs, been shamed by the force and the public then been giving a heavy sentence inside with people they may have sent to prison.

archer22

msg11 wrote: »

My point is why are attacks towards emergency services very lax, a few Garda step out of line and there getting 3,4 years, without a conviction in the past.

Yet a scummer (not the guy the bet the **** out of) who attacks them with convictions up too his eye balls is giving a 6-12 month suspended sentence if even that.

It's in a sense quite unfair if you ask me, the Garda have lost there jobs, been shamed by the force and the public then been giving a heavy sentence inside with people they may have sent to prison.

Ahh Boo Hoo...dont do the crime if you cant do the time!

crackcrack30

IMO this episode should have been sorted out long before court & media.......... IA Investigation, badges handed in, apology, compo paid (offered). then buried.

This will only add to the fear being instiled in decent coppers for fear of losing their jobs and good name every time thet have to deal with public order, junkies ,gangs, fueds, domestics in the face of continued lack of respect & fear from scum, and support from public..... IMO their hands are tied around their ba*ls when faced/ tested with the job they do every night of the week.

Hats off.............

ANSI

crackcrack30 wrote: »

IMO this episode should have been sorted out long before court & media.......... IA Investigation, badges handed in, apology, compo paid (offered). then buried.

This will only add to the fear being instiled in decent coppers for fear of losing their jobs and good name every time thet have to deal with public order, junkies ,gangs, fueds, domestics in the face of continued lack of respect & fear from scum, and support from public..... IMO their hands are tied around their ba*ls when faced/ tested with the job they do every night of the week.

Hats off.............

bs

DonJose

The news report stated 2 ex-gardai were jailed, what will happen to Martha McEnery who was given a four-month suspended sentence. She now has a criminal record, will she be dismissed or will she keep her job?

time lord

I would of given the Gardaí involved a medal each but thats just my opinion. Us paddys don't realise how easy we have it with law enforcement in Éire.
On a seperate note I keep saying the "scumbags" are begining to outnumber the normal good folk. If one can't see this you must be in an ivory tower at this stage.

archer22

time lord wrote: »

I would of given the Gardaí involved a medal each but thats just my opinion. Us paddys don't realise how easy we have it with law enforcement in Éire.
On a seperate note I keep saying the "scumbags" are begining to outnumber the normal good folk. If one can't see this you must be in an ivory tower at this stage.

They will be getting plenty of medals where they are going now...up the rear end .

savagecabbages

I believe in harsh sentences for Gardai who act like this. I also believe in harsh sentences for those tho assault Gardai. It should work both ways.

charlemont

DonJose wrote: »

The news report stated 2 ex-gardai were jailed, what will happen to Martha McEnery who was given a four-month suspended sentence. She now has a criminal record, will she be dismissed or will she keep her job?

Dole office for her, She was a sergeant so she should have known better, No doubt she will get a job though as she would probably have lots of connections through her job.

MagicSean

Awful lot of trolling going on here. These sentences were outrageous. When I think of all the times that I've seen scumbags with long list of convictions get off prison time for worse crimes it's sickening. How it was classed as a section 3 assault I'll never understand either. I can see this case having a major effect on gardai unless these sentences are explained.

Contra Proferentem

I can't argue with this. The law has to operate both ways in terms of the use of reasonable force. This went beyond what was reasonable and proportionate to the securing of compliance, including the kicking of the partially subdued suspect when he was on the ground. Strong sentences are needed as a deterrent, so that people know, whether they are gardai or not, that this is unacceptable and that their are consequences.

Granted the victim was in the wrong, and he wasn't the most upstanding person in the world, but there's no such thing as a perfect victim in these cases. He should have complied, as any sensible person would have done. However, it's obvious that the assault and the attempted cover up via the CCTV system were sufficient to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that this was unacceptable.

The law has to be seen to be applied to all, equally.

reprazant

MagicSean wrote: »

Awful lot of trolling going on here. These sentences were outrageous. When I think of all the times that I've seen scumbags with long list of convictions get off prison time for worse crimes it's sickening. How it was classed as a section 3 assault I'll never understand either. I can see this case having a major effect on gardai unless these sentences are explained.

So what you are saying is that Gardai should be allowed to beat up prisoners whenever and however they want because some scumbags have gotten off lightly?

Essentially, you feel that the Gardai should be above the law they are meant to uphold?

MagicSean

reprazant wrote: »

So what you are saying is that Gardai should be allowed to beat up prisoners whenever and however they want because some scumbags have gotten off lightly?

Essentially, you feel that the Gardai should be above the law they are meant to uphold?

Where exactly did I say or even imply that? I'm saying their sentences should have been along the same lines as every other assault case. If a person with a rake load of convictions can assault a Garda and still walk out of court with a suspended sentence then how can these sentences be justified for people with no previous conviction, lots of previous good works, and the victim has barely any injury.

hardybuck

MagicSean wrote: »

Where exactly did I say or even imply that? I'm saying their sentences should have been along the same lines as every other assault case. If a person with a rake load of convictions can assault a Garda and still walk out of court with a suspended sentence then how can these sentences be justified for people with no previous conviction, lots of previous good works, and the victim has barely any injury.

It is one thing to assault someone, it is another to participate in a sustained group assault on someone who is lying face down on the ground. Kicking in particular is very nasty, as was the attempt to divert the CCTV cameras.

MagicSean

hardybuck wrote: »

It is one thing to assault someone, it is another to participate in a sustained group assault on someone who is lying face down on the ground. Kicking in particular is very nasty, as was the attempt to divert the CCTV cameras.

From what I've seen in court this would still be way above normal sentencing.

Eru

no one is trying to justify their actions and certain users here clearly just have a gripe with gardai in general.

What people are trying to explain is that compared to assaults AGAINST gardai, this is harsh.

Compare to these cases to see whats meant:

http://www.anglocelt.ie/news/courtreports/articles/2010/10/27/4001078-suspended-sentence-for-assault-on-a-garda/ (suspended completely)

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/woman-gets-suspended-sentence-for-broken-bottle-assault-526974.html (completely suspended despite cutting someone with a bottle)

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmhkfcwkfid/rss2/ (suspended sentence only re-instated after she again broke the law)

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/jail-or-fine-for-assault-on-garda-by-two-travellers-781673.html (completely suspended for paying a whopping 300 compensation)

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/91170?author_name=N&comment_order=desc&condense_comments=true&userlanguage=ga&save_prefs=true (all suspended and for the exact same charge as this one)

http://www.braypeople.ie/news/garda-assault-man-has-remainder-of-prison-sentence-suspended-728612.html (a decent sentence but then 2 years chopped off for no apparant reason and this assault was far worse)

I could go on but as you would expect google is currently littered with results for this case. Also watch to see how big a sentence are dished out for the boiling oil attack and also the garda that was slashed in the face a while back

hardybuck

MagicSean wrote: »

From what I've seen in court this would still be way above normal sentencing.

So why not direct your attention towards these other cases where those founds guilty aren't given sufficient sentences? This seems to be one case where the judge has had the guts to dish out appropriate jail terms.

Turner

archer22 wrote: »

They will be getting plenty of medals where they are going now...up the rear end .

Your one and only chance has just been used up, this is not AfterHours

MagicSean

hardybuck wrote: »

So why not direct your attention towards these other cases where those founds guilty aren't given sufficient sentences? This seems to be one case where the judge has had the guts to dish out appropriate jail terms.

You call it guts. I call it pandering. I wonder if we look back at this judges history would it show these sentences as the norm for him.

hardybuck

MagicSean wrote: »

You call it guts. I call it pandering. I wonder if we look back at this judges history would it show these sentences as the norm for him.

Are you sure you have chosen the correct word in pandering? Pandering in relation to what?

The judge is also female by the way.

samsham

msg11 wrote: »

My point is why are attacks towards emergency services very lax, a few Garda step out of line and there getting 3,4 years, without a conviction in the past.

Yet a scummer (not the guy the bet the **** out of) who attacks them with convictions up too his eye balls is giving a 6-12 month suspended sentence if even that.

It's in a sense quite unfair if you ask me, the Garda have lost there jobs, been shamed by the force and the public then been giving a heavy sentence inside with people they may have sent to prison.

Thank God for CCTV
I think your missing something here, there was only a conviction here because of CCTV, The man in the attack had made a complaint to garda management and it was dismissed. His lawyer I am told sought the CCTV tapes and only then he got justice. The Ombudsman then brought the case. The Garda managment as usual left the citizen down. I also hear there is another alleged assault case going to court against a guy at the station.

Garda accused of assaulting Polish man (Irish Examiner)
By Justine Dwyer
Tuesday, October 11, 2011

"A GARDA charged with assaulting a Polish man while in custody was heard by a colleague telling him, "Welcome to Ireland, you’re not in Poland now", Waterford District Court was told yesterday."

Garda Caroline Lynch said in evidence that she was dealing with another unrelated incident at the Woodlands Hotel on the night in question when she saw two men outside being arrested. She said when she returned to the garda station she saw a prisoner in the custody suite and as she was walking past a glass panel, saw the prisoner being pushed against the wall. She moved further on and saw Garda McKenna’s hands on the prisoner’s chest and heard him say, "Welcome to Ireland, you’re not in Poland now."

Minutes later she was talking to her sergeant, Alan Kissane, when she heard a loud bang. Grda Lynch said she ran out and observed the prisoner being hit by Grda McKenna. She said he was practically on top of the injured party, punching him in the face. The court heard Sgt Kissane separated them and uncuffed the prisoner.


Probable better it we don't discuss this case any further

jank

As for scumbags that attack Gardai well they should be given longer sentances as well. Sentances are way to low in Ireland. Maybe that is one of the reason for all these little instances.

DonJose

"THE female garda sergeant given a suspended sentence for assaulting a man during his arrest is battling to keep her job.

Sgt Martha McEnery (42) has been suspended from the force for the past 22 months but she continues to receive 75pc of her pay.

A decision is to be made on her future in the coming days. However, it is highly unlikely that McEnery will resign from her dream job given that she has indicated her "deepest aspiration" is to remain in the force.

The native of Listowel, Co Kerry, escaped being sent to jail with two former garda colleagues, Daniel Hickey and John Burke, at Waterford Circuit Court on Monday, over the attack on Anthony Holness."

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shamed-assault-garda-will-fight-to-keep-her-dream-job-2929363.html

scholar007

DonJose wrote: »

"THE female garda sergeant given a suspended sentence for assaulting a man during his arrest is battling to keep her job.

Sgt Martha McEnery (42) has been suspended from the force for the past 22 months but she continues to receive 75pc of her pay.

A decision is to be made on her future in the coming days. However, it is highly unlikely that McEnery will resign from her dream job given that she has indicated her "deepest aspiration" is to remain in the force.

The native of Listowel, Co Kerry, escaped being sent to jail with two former garda colleagues, Daniel Hickey and John Burke, at Waterford Circuit Court on Monday, over the attack on Anthony Holness."

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shamed-assault-garda-will-fight-to-keep-her-dream-job-2929363.html

Can she really keep her job when she was one of the "senior" officers on the scene and convicted of assault? Is it right that the other two officers are now no longer in AGS and she is still trying to keep her job? Surely, the most senior officer on the scene should bear the most responsibility for what transpired - if not - what is the point of having stripes other than extra dosh?

samsham

Can you have a criminal record and be a Garda? That's shocking..

samsham

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p031xnpac-Y

I don't think the above behavior helped these guys. Look's like something the General would have been up to in the latter half of the last century.

deadwood

samsham wrote: »

Can you have a criminal record and be a Garda? That's shocking..

I have some Declan Nerney elpee's i'm not proud of.

samsham

deadwood wrote: »

I have some Declan Nerney elpee's i'm not proud of.

I suppose wee Danial O Donnell has a few crinimal records, will he be jaoiled too

scholar007

samsham wrote: »

Can you have a criminal record and be a Garda? That's shocking..

Well Janey macks! - If that Ban Garda is still on the streets after this, Gawd help any other poor sod that gets his langer out for a slash after a feed of pints in the dead of nite.........:D

charlemont

samsham wrote: »

Can you have a criminal record and be a Garda? That's shocking..

I reckon she has learned her lesson so losing her job is an extra punishment, They should do a Police Academy job and hire ex criminals..:pac:

Corruptable

No one is saying that scumbags who attack Gardai shouldn't get longer sentences. But gratuitous violence has to be punished, whether by scumbags or gardai. Some would say especially if done by gardai.

I accept that reasonable force isn't always easy to determine when faced with someone who is non-compliant and heavily intoxicated or on drugs, but that's the responsibility that gardai take on when they take the job. Perhaps more training is required.

pah

Corruptable wrote: »

Perhaps more training is required.

If only :mad:

More training, more resources, more equipment, more vehicles, more personnel

Ravomix

MagicSean wrote: »

Awful lot of trolling going on here. These sentences were outrageous. When I think of all the times that I've seen scumbags with long list of convictions get off prison time for worse crimes it's sickening. How it was classed as a section 3 assault I'll never understand either. I can see this case having a major effect on gardai unless these sentences are explained.

If it makes gardai think twice before kicking a member of the public in the head,its a good step forward.

pah

Ravomix wrote: »

MagicSean wrote: »

Awful lot of trolling going on here. These sentences were outrageous. When I think of all the times that I've seen scumbags with long list of convictions get off prison time for worse crimes it's sickening. How it was classed as a section 3 assault I'll never understand either. I can see this case having a major effect on gardai unless these sentences are explained.

If it makes gardai think twice before kicking a member of the public in the head,its a good step forward.

Agreed.

However it seems that lenient sentencing for "members of the public" breaking jaws, slashing faces, running down and killing gardaí is causing said good citizens not to give a second thought to their actions.

Terrontress

pah wrote: »

Ravomix wrote: »

MagicSean wrote: »

Awful lot of trolling going on here. These sentences were outrageous. When I think of all the times that I've seen scumbags with long list of convictions get off prison time for worse crimes it's sickening. How it was classed as a section 3 assault I'll never understand either. I can see this case having a major effect on gardai unless these sentences are explained.

If it makes gardai think twice before kicking a member of the public in the head,its a good step forward.

Agreed.

However it seems that lenient sentencing for "members of the public" breaking jaws, slashing faces, running down and killing gardaí is causing said good citizens not to give a second thought to their actions.

The two have to be looked at in isolation. I'd be of the opinion that those tasked with upholding the law should be punished to the fullest extent of the law if they break it. They should be the standard to which everyone aspires.

There is a report in the UK media today about a guy working for the courts service taking a bribe to help someone get off a driving ban. He got six years.

This is not to say that the scumbags should not be punished more harshly but scumbags are scumbags. We expect no better from them. We certainly expect better from those paid to uphold the law and protect the very people they are kicking the life out of.

eroo

A teenager who assaulted two gardai at a garda station and threatened to kill them has been sentenced to two years detention with the final year suspended.

The teen punched the gardai after they tried to remove a concealed mobile phone resulting in one garda falling back and cutting his head open off the cell door.

The youth also placed his finger, with an open bleeding wound, into the mouth of one of the gardai resulting in the garda receiving anti-viral medication for six months.

The 17-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, pleaded guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court, to assaulting Garda Anthony Quan and Sergeant Cathy O'Neill at Balbriggan Garda Station on January 29, 2011.

Perfect example of lenient sentences.

hardybuck

eroo wrote: »

Perfect example of lenient sentences.

The difference in this case is that a child attacked two adults. We have no info on the amount of blows struck etc, but the blood thing is sinister. As a child, and no doubt a troubled one, he should be given the opportunity of reforming himself and getting the appropriate help. Any longer in jail and he wouldn't get a chance to do that.

In the Waterford incident, you have two fully trained and experienced professionals who kicked and punched a man who was already arrested and lying face down on the ground. The amount of blows went into double figures.

A third deliberately perverted the course of justice by moving the CCTV cameras on two occasions to try and prevent evidence of this crime being recorded. Ironically the citizens of this country paid for those cameras and those Gardai to help protect us.

Now, I'm not someone who reads Indy Media or will be out on street protests or up at Shell to Sea, but I've no tolerance towards Gardai who act in this fashion. The sentences are just, and should act as a warning to the rest of their colleagues.

Obviously this hasn't been successful, as there is another similar case in Waterford about to hit the courts shortly. One of the officers found not guilty in the above trial was on the scene of the latest incident also, but not implicated I should add.

pa990

hardybuck wrote: »

.............., as there is another similar case in Waterford about to hit the courts shortly. One of the officers found not guilty in the above trial was on the scene of the latest incident also, but not implicated I should add.

what are you trying to imply ?

MagicSean

Terrontress wrote: »

The two have to be looked at in isolation. I'd be of the opinion that those tasked with upholding the law should be punished to the fullest extent of the law if they break it. They should be the standard to which everyone aspires.

There is a report in the UK media today about a guy working for the courts service taking a bribe to help someone get off a driving ban. He got six years.

This is not to say that the scumbags should not be punished more harshly but scumbags are scumbags. We expect no better from them. We certainly expect better from those paid to uphold the law and protect the very people they are kicking the life out of.

You can't look at them in isolation. If a member does not feel he has the proper protection from the law or his employers it will affect how he does his job.

pa990

MagicSean wrote: »

You can't look at them in isolation. If a member does not feel he has the proper protection from the law or his employers it will affect how he does his job.

unfortunately, that is exactly what certain elements of society have set out to achieve

hardybuck

pa990 wrote: »

what are you trying to imply ?

Nothing at all. However, you'd expect that in light of what happened to their colleagues, they'd be extremely careful in that station in particular. Lessons haven't been learned obviously.

pa990

hardybuck wrote: »

Nothing at all. However, you'd expect that in light of what happened to their colleagues, they'd be extremely careful in that station in particular. Lessons haven't been learned obviously.

i'm not gonna comment on the court cases, as this matter is before the courts, but i suggest that you do a little bit more research in to all the cases and the timelines involved, and familiarize yourself with the judicial process and how the ombudsman works etc