Jonny Wilkinson Brands RWC Match Balls a 'Joke'

Higher

Good morning everyone. This is an article I came across this morning that I thought could facilitate discussion.

irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Monday, November 7, 2011, 11:07 Wilkinson brands match balls a joke

Rugby: Jonny Wilkinson has criticised the World Cup organisers for the inconsistent tournament balls used during the competition and branded them “horribly unprofessional”.


Wilkinson suffered from some of the poorest kicking form of his career during the World Cup in New Zealand and pinpointed the unpredictable behaviour of the match balls as the root of the problem.


England kicking coach Dave Alred and conditioning coach Paul Stridgeon were banned from England’s pool game against Scotland at Eden Park after they switched the balls used for conversions during the win over Romania.
Wilkinson revealed in his autobiography that the match balls were a “joke” due to their inconsistent movement — something that could not be blamed on the weather as England played three of their pool games in the enclosed Otago Stadium.


The England outhalf described the different flight of the practice balls and the match balls and how the unpredictability derailed his game.
“My feeling is that it’s just horribly unprofessional and an extremely bitter pill to swallow that, at the biggest tournament in the sport, we’re having to deal with this,” Wilkinson said.


“Again and again I’m hitting the same kick every time but it’s non-match ball straight through the middle, match ball to the right.


“The problem is that when you feel like you’re smashing it and the feedback is telling you that everything is great, yet the ball is swinging both ways and missing one way and then the other, you’re left with a very difficult situation. From then on it’s a joke.


“The organisers claim that all the balls are the same, but they’re not. If they were they wouldn’t be doing this.”


Wilkinson had refused to comment on the ball-switch issue during the World Cup but now admits he was desperate to avoid using certain balls during the pool game against Romania.


“It’s not exactly surprising that I wouldn’t want a ball that flies miles from where it’s supposed to,” he added. “I’m sick to my stomach of thinking about how hard I’ve practised kicking over all those years and what little good it has done me at such an important time.”

JustinDee

The "joke" is finally being caught illegally slipping team's own balls into circulation.

The balls were same model/type used in earlier games, including England's win over Ireland at the Aviva in August.

Higher

JustinDee wrote: »

The "joke" is finally being caught illegally slipping team's own balls into circulation.

The balls were same model/type used in earlier games, including England's win over Ireland at the Aviva in August.

There were more missed kicks in this World Cup than ever apparently. Some of the best and most experienced kickers in the world were horribly off form. There was so much discontent that the IRB had to warn teams not to criticize the match ball.

I feel there was definitely some kind of issue, it seemed like the match ball suited a certain style of kicker. I have heard many times that it was the same ball but it appears that the balls were altered in some way. I wonder if it was the same ball but they were inflated with a higher air pressure or something for the World Cup. I really don't know but from what I could see, and from what players have themselves have come out with, the ball was different.

JustinDee

Higher wrote: »

There were more missed kicks in this World Cup than ever apparently. Some of the best and most experienced kickers in the world were horribly off form. There was so much discontent that the IRB had to warn teams not to criticize the match ball.

I feel there was definitely some kind of issue, it seemed like the match ball suited a certain style of kicker. I have heard many times that it was the same ball but it appears that the balls were altered in some way. I wonder if it was the same ball but they were inflated with a higher air pressure or something for the World Cup. I really don't know but from what I could see, and from what players have themselves have come out with, the ball was different.

Not to burst the bubble here but they were in fact the same as that model used in games played earlier in season. Nothing untoward.
Pressure affects players in every sport. Even kickers like St Jonny get the yips.

freyners

i dont know which commentator said it but it was noted that the balls favoured a more natural kicking style then wilkinsons manufactured one.

If anyone could interpret that for me id be much obliged, what is a natural style and who uses one, ditto for manufactured or was it just a big crock??????:rolleyes:

.ak

I dunno, there was definitely something up with the balls. Whilst the teams were given the balls to practice with/play warm up games, there is a possibility they were different from the balls used in the WC. Infact, I think I remember something about the valve being changed a week or two prior to the WC kick off.

We can take about pressure and whatnot, but in a showcase tournament like the WC, they kicking percentages should be positive. Also, most of Wilko's missed kicks were during low pressure pool games.

I'd love to see the stats on successful kicks vs say the Celtic Cup or the Aviva Prem... I would be surprised to see the average shows that the success percentage is higher in this competitions. It's a joke really.

CatFromHue

Morne Steyn said there was nothing wrong with the ball and his kicking success rate would back that up.

"Bok pivot Morne Steyn says there's nothing wrong with the Gilbert "Virtuo" ball being used at the World Cup, and kickers should not be looking for excuses."

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3561_7225113,00.html

It's very strange to say the least that Wilkinson to say the above though unless he genuinely meant it.

molloyjh

This does add an interesting element to the whole thing. Sexton apparently was nailing his kicks in the warm-up too, yet missing badly during the matches just like Wilko. Sexton himself though said there was nothing wrong with the ball and that it was his technique, and he did seem to get that sorted by the Italy game.

With so many quality kickers missing so many kicks it was bound to raise speculation. I'd have always had time for Wilko. He doesn't seem the type to make excuses. Like many things we'll probably never know for sure. We'll have some people claim one thing, others another.

07438991

This is a very interesting topic. Just wondering are match balls scientifically tested and how? Surely testing pressure doesn't account for the length, breadth, stitching, etc. (I know dat snooker uses special machines to weigh each ball, check its diameter, etc.)

I have worked as a ballboy for the IRFU and Leinster many years ago. I remember working at a match in the old donnybrook stadium and all the balls were Gilbert but a few looked shorter and fatter, almost like a mitre rugby ball.

Also, now that Rabo Direct Pro 12 is using Rhino balls, Heinekin Cup uses Adidas balls there are going to be slight inconsistencies in my opinion!!!

JustinDee

.ak wrote: »

We can take about pressure and whatnot, but in a showcase tournament like the WC, they kicking percentages should be positive. Also, most of Wilko's missed kicks were during low pressure pool games

For a start, England v Argentina was most definitely not a low-key pool game.

mrboswell

JustinDee wrote: »

The "joke" is finally being caught illegally slipping team's own balls into circulation.

The balls were same model/type used in earlier games, including England's win over Ireland at the Aviva in August.

England have been doing that for years. They got caught by Irish management in Lansdown a few years ago when someone, can't remember who, dived out and caught the ball that a member of English team management threw onto the pitch and started shaking his head saying "No, you're not doing that here...."

Classic.

[Jackass]

Sour grapes, everyone was in the same boat.

07438991

07438991 wrote: »

This is a very interesting topic. Just wondering are match balls scientifically tested and how? Surely testing pressure doesn't account for the length, breadth, stitching, etc. (I know dat snooker uses special machines to weigh each ball, check its diameter, etc.)

I have worked as a ballboy for the IRFU and Leinster many years ago. I remember working at a match in the old donnybrook stadium and all the balls were Gilbert but a few looked shorter and fatter, almost like a mitre rugby ball.

Also, now that Rabo Direct Pro 12 is using Rhino balls, Heinekin Cup uses Adidas balls there are going to be slight inconsistencies in my opinion!!!

So has anybody got an answer to my question please?

mrboswell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oebCoIjCLj8&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hl24U0GqQo&feature=player_embedded#!

Eoin

[Jackass] wrote: »

Sour grapes, everyone was in the same boat.

Jonny Wilkinson has never struck me as that sort of person.

I wonder if so many players had trouble doing something like spiralling the ball out of hand, would people also assume it was nerves.

durkadurka

Eoin wrote: »

Jonny Wilkinson has never struck me as that sort of person.

I wonder if so many players had trouble doing something like spiralling the ball out of hand, would people also assume it was nerves.

He is selling a book though. It tends to bring out the worst in sportsmen.

twinytwo

durkadurka wrote: »

He is selling a book though. It tends to bring out the worst in sportsmen.

He is also known for never saying anything out of turn to the press, hence why when he does people tend to listen.

JustinDee

twinytwo wrote: »

He is also known for never saying anything out of turn to the press, hence why when he does people tend to listen.

That doesn't make what he says right.

The same ball will be used in the Six Nations and officials will be on lookout for anyone trying to circulate their own (ie. Cheat) so he'll have to suck it up.

jacothelad

JustinDee wrote: »

That doesn't make what he says right.

The same ball will be used in the Six Nations and officials will be on lookout for anyone trying to circulate their own (ie. Cheat) so he'll have to suck it up.

Was his point mainly that some balls had true flight while others wobbled off course? Badly made balls don't 'fly' straight but swerve unnaturally. Those players who approach the ball from almost straight on put less 'side' or draw on the ball and are far more accurate. If the panels of which the ball is constructed are of unequal thickness and mass for example, they will make a poor ball for goal kicking and accurate line kicking

When kicking a rugby ball at the posts it is important that at the point of release - the millisecond when the boot and the ball separate - that the toe (or instep section if that is your contact point) of the boot should be pointing exactly where you want the ball to travel. There should also be as little follow through as possible at that juncture as it is this unwanted continued contact which causes the ball to hook (or more rarely to slice) away from the target. Some of the best kickers of recent years have been guys like Ellisalde, Dominguez, Yachvilli, Parra who are straight on kickers. If you are a round the corner kicker who draws the ball in, you have to be more accurate in the minutiae of the actions required as it is more likely that a bit of extra rotation can be added to the balls flight. Other great kickers like ROG, St. Jonny, Carter are superb at controlling their muscle actions in the approach to the kick.

If you get all that right and the ball is crap ......

Judgement Day

If Jonny says it was all about the balls then I'm right with him, and I'm sure things will go better with him in the 2015 RWC.

mrboswell

jacothelad wrote: »

Was his point mainly that some balls had true flight while others wobbled off course? Badly made balls don't 'fly' straight but swerve unnaturally. Those players who approach the ball from almost straight on put less 'side' or draw on the ball and are far more accurate. If the panels of which the ball is constructed are of unequal thickness and mass for example, they will make a poor ball for goal kicking and accurate line kicking

When kicking a rugby ball at the posts it is important that at the point of release - the millisecond when the boot and the ball separate - that the toe (or instep section if that is your contact point) of the boot should be pointing exactly where you want the ball to travel. There should also be as little follow through as possible at that juncture as it is this unwanted continued contact which causes the ball to hook (or more rarely to slice) away from the target. Some of the best kickers of recent years have been guys like Ellisalde, Dominguez, Yachvilli, Parra who are straight on kickers. If you are a round the corner kicker who draws the ball in, you have to be more accurate in the minutiae of the actions required as it is more likely that a bit of extra rotation can be added to the balls flight. Other great kickers like ROG, St. Jonny, Carter are superb at controlling their muscle actions in the approach to the kick.

If you get all that right and the ball is crap ......

I don't think having done all that research and testing that gilbert got it that wrong.

That aside Wilkinson is on the way out.

twinytwo

JustinDee wrote: »

That doesn't make what he says right.

The same ball will be used in the Six Nations and officials will be on lookout for anyone trying to circulate their own (ie. Cheat) so he'll have to suck it up.

I would have thought him being one of if not the best goal kicker in the world for the best part of a decade would mean he would know what he is talking about.

He said himself during the wc that he couldnt figure out what was wrong, he was kicking the ball perfectly and they were going wide. He couldnt adjust his kicking because to him he was doing everything right.

Now if it was just him one would say fine... but it wasnt... nearly every top kicker was all over the place in the wc but sure the pressue must have got to all of them.

twinytwo

mrboswell wrote: »

I don't think having done all that research and testing that gilbert got it that wrong.

That aside Wilkinson is on the way out.

remember the wc where nike made that crap ball that had all the players freaking out??

they would have a lot more money than gilbert to put into R&D and they got it badly wrong.

Eoin

And didn't a lot of teams hate playing with both the balls that Italy and NZ used at one stage?

mrboswell

twinytwo wrote: »

remember the wc where nike made that crap ball that had all the players freaking out??

they would have a lot more money than gilbert to put into R&D and they got it badly wrong.

Nike jump on the bandwagon and throw money at anything.

Didn't they come out and say minimalist runners were the best thing ever, sorry we haven't made these before and all our runners will be like this from now on. A month or 2 later they came out again and said sorry we should never have said that, we are going back to the normal runners.

A company like Gilbert have a lot more experience making rugby balls than nike have at a lot of things.

JustinDee

twinytwo wrote: »

I would have thought him being one of if not the best goal kicker in the world for the best part of a decade would mean he would know what he is talking about

Nobody is free of a tilted view, particularly in a ghost-written autobiography and believe it or not, folk do get things wrong from time to time. Did he mention what he and his team got away with since as far back as 2002/03 ie. cheating by circulating their own ball into the match set? I don't think he did.

twinytwo wrote: »

He said himself during the wc that he couldnt figure out what was wrong, he was kicking the ball perfectly and they were going wide. He couldnt adjust his kicking because to him he was doing everything right

He struggled big time in Dunedin and afterwards wasn't kicking England's preferred ball. Pressure builds, particularly in what transpired as a fairly loosely-disciplined camp.

twinytwo wrote: »

Now if it was just him one would say fine... but it wasnt... nearly every top kicker was all over the place in the wc but sure the pressue must have got to all of them.

Little bit generalistic. Kicking wasn't quite as bad as the calamitous outcries would have everyone believe. Sexton for example struggled but it could be just as easily speculated that he would have struggled with any type of ball. There were other seasoned kickers who had absolutely no problems with the ball.
Wilkinson had a shocker? No biggie. It happens to the best of us. The ball was the very same that he was using before. Nothing was different about it. Time St Jonny moved on instead of having a sook about everyone else but himself.

molloyjh

JustinDee wrote: »

Sexton for example struggled but it could be just as easily speculated that he would have struggled with any type of ball.

Sexton has said it wasn't the ball. Apparently the wind changed between the warm ups and the first penalty in the USA game which caught him out a bit. He then unconsciously fell into an old habit of dipping his back slightly going into the kick which affected him for that game and the Aussie game. It was spotted and sorted and we saw in the Italy game with that kick from the touchline he was back in business.

If not for that explanation I'd have been more inclined to believe there was something up with the ball. At this stage I don't know, and don't think I'll ever know for sure, and ultimately who cares really? We didn't lose out over it and I don't think many teams could say they did if it were true - maybe Wales in the SA game but that's it really isn't it?