Ebay help - buyer lying!

StormWarrior

I sold a weightlifting bench on ebay. I said that the buyer must come and collect it (because obviously it was too big to post.) The bench was won by somebody, who said that he would come and collect it on Sunday. On Sunday someone rang by doorbell and said "Hi, I'm the person who's buying the bench." I directed him to my garage where I showed him the bench. He looked at it, said it was fine, paid me and took the bench away.

Now I've got an email from him saying that it wasn't him who collected the bench but his brother. He says the bench is in bad condition and not as described. He says a foot of the bench is missing so that it wobbles (nothing was missing when it was collected) He says the seat doesn't lift up (it does) and he says it's in bad condition. (It was in great condition - like new - when collected.) He says he wants a refund.

I don't want to refund him because I know there was nothing wrong with it. Also he comes from a different county to me - he drove from the next county to collect the bench and has said he wants a refund but mentioned nothing about returning the bench to me. The collector viewed the bench before buying and then paid cash. If he starts a paypal claim, how likely is it that I will lose? Also if he gives me negative feedback can I do anything?

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Nody

Expect a faulty item to be returned (if he returns it) and returning the item would be a requirement for a refund with paypal at his expense.

jor el

He paid cash, there is no Paypal claim here. Tell him to get lost and stop wasting your time. eBay won't even get involved as he completed the purchase outside of eBay. If he leaves negative feedback you may even have grounds to remove it based on completing the sale outside of eBay.

GaelMonfils

jor el wrote: »

He paid cash, there is no Paypal claim here. Tell him to get lost and stop wasting your time. eBay won't even get involved as he completed the purchase outside of eBay. If he leaves negative feedback you may even have grounds to remove it based on completing the sale outside of eBay.

+1 on this. Tell him to stop annoying your ring piece.

GaryDyer

Cash payment and collect in person means no 'not as described' cases on paypal or eBay will be a concern for you. However contrary to reports... He can leave fb as he won the item and it will be his opinion so more than likely neg, hard to see if there could be grounds for removal.

jor el

GaryDyer wrote: »

hard to see if there could be grounds for removal.

Because it was a collect in person item, there was ample opportunity to see the condition of what he was buying. Any negative feedback about the condition should therefore have grounds to be appealed.

GaryDyer

Yea it'll all depend on what comment is left but if it was the brother who collected on behalf as mentioned or if something that wasn't obvious when collecting was the problem then it would stand as potentially being misleading listing. The problem is eBay reps cannot see the item and will have to decide on what info is present in eBay messages, listing description etc.

StormWarrior

Help! He's opened an ebay case against me and now he's changed his complaint. Instead of saying that the item was damaged, he's saying in the case that it's a different type of bench from the one in the picture (it's not) and that's why he should have a refund.

jor el

Stop worrying, eBay can't get access to your wallet.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

StormWarrior

It says in the case that if ebay decides in his favour, they will refund him and make me reimburse them. In his complaint now he is saying that for the case he will provide a photo of the bench to "prove" that it's not the same as the listing. However, as the bench is the same I fear he will take a photo of a bench he already had and pretend that that's the one I gave him. He's bought loads of weightlifting stuff, including at least one bench off ebay before, I can see them in his feedback. The fact that he wants to use a photo as "evidence" shows that he has no intention of returning the bench - he'll probably claim that he lives too far away to do so.

This is the message I responded to the case with:
The buyer thoroughly inspected the bench before purchase and agreed that it was fine. He waited until he had it safely in his possession at home before asking for refund, and made no mention of returning the bench - it seems he just wants a free bench and to keep his money. The buyer's story keeps changing - in a message to me he claimed that the bench had a part missing, the seat wasn't as described and it was in bad condition (all of which are completely untrue, he didn't point out any faults on inspection as there weren't any). However in his case he claims that the bench is a different type from the one in the picture - which is also untrue. He claims he will provide a photo of bench for the case - but how do we know he will not take a photo of a different bench he already has? He says now that his brother collected the bench - but at the time he told me that he himself was coming and introduced himself as the buyer at the door. Fact is the bench was inspected at time & accepted.

jor el

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/transactions-outside-eBay.html
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html

Transactions completed outside eBay are not eligible for eBay services, including Feedback, opening cases in the Resolution Centre that the item wasn't received, isn't as described or hasn't been paid. If you knowingly or unknowingly transacted outside eBay and believe you were defrauded, please review the Transactions outside eBay page to learn more about the steps you can take.

I don't see how eBay will refund him, as their own policies don't allow for any dispute for items bought outside of eBay. What you got there was an automated email, and no one has actually looked into this yet. I'd stop replying to him all together.

sce88

jor el wrote: »

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/transactions-outside-eBay.html
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html


I don't see how eBay will refund him, as their own policies don't allow for any dispute for items bought outside of eBay. What you got there was an automated email, and no one has actually looked into this yet. I'd stop replying to him all together.

this is incorrect.

outside of ebay could be where a private message is sent between buyer/seller and item is sold without bidding/winning the auction.

this is sometimes done to save on fees, maybe with the buyer/seller splitting the fees saved between them


In the case of the OP an auction was won, and fees paid by the seller (OP), so therefore it wasn't completed outside of ebay

sce88

examples of what an 'outside of ebay' transaction could be:

Some examples of outside such offers include:

• Using information obtained through eBay to offer to buy or sell a listed item outside of eBay
• Cancelling a listing to sell to a buyer who became aware of the item through eBay
• Ending a listing early to sell the item at a higher price to the winning bidder
• Offering to sell an item to a bidder in a Reserve Not Met listing
• Offering to sell duplicate or additional merchandise to underbidders

and the OP isnt included in any of these

StormWarrior

He replied again. Now he says that the item is faulty with bits missing AND it's not the model shown in the picture. He says he's not trying to keep the bench for free, and I am welcome to collect it at my own expense (as if I would pay to transport it across 2 counties - the bench isn't even worth that much.) Is he allowed to use the distance as an excuse not to return it? Not that I want it back anyway, he still doesn't deserve a refund. I reiterated to him that the bench was viewed on collection and deemed acceptable. He says again that his brother collected it, and he adds that he will provide photos of the missing foot and the whole bench to show that it's not the same. Again I answered that he could show pictures of a different bench. Also he may have damaged it in transit, and now be trying to blame me. But it's obvious he has no intention of returning it, he must know that it's not worth me travelling across 2 counties to collect it. I know you say I should stop replying, but I worry if I do that ebay will think I'm ignoring him and will decide in his favour.

Also it said in the listing "no returns accepted," will this help me? Whose favour do you honestly think ebay will decide in?

jor el

StormWarrior wrote: »

and I am welcome to collect it at my own expense

Any return will always be at the buyer's expense.

StormWarrior wrote: »

Also it said in the listing "no returns accepted," will this help me?

Not really, if eBay concludes that the sale was invalid (due to faulty or wrong item) then they'll force a return. As I said, that return must be at the buyer's expense though, which will probably put him off.

StormWarrior wrote: »

Whose favour do you honestly think ebay will decide in?

With eBay, you can never tell. Half the people in there seem to be completely clueless, while others do use some common sense. I still don't see eBay refunding the buyer without first securing the money from you, and without making him return the bench.

StormWarrior

If I refuse to refund him, can ebay kick me off?

jor el

If they charge you, and you refuse to pay, then they'd probably close your account. That's if they charge you by refunding the buyer from their own pockets first.

StormWarrior

Is there anything I can say in the case to make ebay more likely to take my side? I know the bench didn't go for alot but I hate the thought of a total scam artist getting something for nothing, and let's face it he'll probably leave me bad feedback too.

StormWarrior

He's written back. He says that he really wanted a york bench but couldn't afford one and he thought this would be just like a york bench, that's why he wanted it (it clearly states in listing that it's a pro power bench.) He's claiming that the bench in the photo has 13 positions while the one I gave him has only three. Well, I've used that bench myself and I know it has 13 positions and it's the one in the photo. We're going round in circles and not solving anything, so I've told him that I won't answer him any more and we should let ebay decide the outcome. I hope that won't count against me. When he opened the case he claimed that he opened the case because I hadn't responded to him, even though I'd answered his email with an explanation of why I wouldn't refund. Selling on ebay is really not worth the hassle. I won't do it again.

But I'm worried, he obviously thinks he has a case. Surely the fact that the bench was inspected and accepted should be enough for me to win?

jor el

So he's changed his story for a third time. That won't do him any favours. I think you're right to hand this over to eBay now. They'll make him return the bench at his own cost if he takes it that far, which I think is unlikely. He's a chancer looking for a quick score. The only way he'll get that is if you back down and refund him.

You could offer a refund if he returns the bench in perfect working order. Do a full inspection on return, and only give him the money if you're completely satisfied. But that's completely up to you.

freeze4real

I honestly don know how eBay can be involved. The deal was done outside eBay.
There was no transfer of cash electronically.

The buyer inspected the goods before taking them.

If eBay reimburses him tell him to bring it back.

If he doesnt keep your money and eBay can f.u.c.k off.

If they close your account open a new one.

StormWarrior

The case is still open. It's been open for more than a week now. It says it needs my response, but I've already responded with everything I have to say. How long before it either gets escalated or closed? Will the fact that I'm not responding any more count against me?

jor el

I think he has to escalate it to a claim. I've never had a dispute in eBay though, only ever Paypal. At this stage, it's unlikely that eBay are even looking at it yet. It's also possible that the case will just close. You should look up the dispute process in eBay help, see if it gives any detail.

Maybe just post the same response again on it. Say it's not broken, and no refund will be given.