Is the RTPI dependable?

n97 mini

Is it still in Beta as it's been inaccurate the majority of the times I've used it.

Most recently a bus showing as due in 7 minutes whizzed past the stop early, with us only 20 metres away. And then last night the bus I was getting wasn't on the system at all, it was the only one not showing for that stop, but yet it still arrived.

I was all in favour of the RTPI but it's hard to use something when you don't have complete confidence in it.

-Chris-

I don't trust it at all.

snappieT

Officially, it's out of beta.

It seems to me that about 90% of the time it works, and it works quite well. For those other 10% of the time, something just goes plain wrong and it doesn't autocorrect itself. There have been many occasions where all buses show "Due" at a given stop that I've heard of. Dublin Bus seem to report reasonably frequent downtime, be it for planned maintenance or teething problems. I'm confident/hope that the system has an inner feedback loop to make the estimates more accurate as real-life journey time between any two points is measured more and more.

Transport for Ireland, who operate RTPI, have a feedback form to alert them of anomalies in the data. I suggest you use it whenever you find an issue so that they can investigate.

n97 mini

Just submitted feedback there.

LXFlyer

As someone who uses the bus every day I'd agree with Snappie T - 90% of the time it does seem to work well. Already I've seen issues that I've experienced at certain stops (unreliable predictions) being eliminated - whether it was as a result of my feedback I don't know, but they were addressed.

Occasionally I have come across "phantom" buses that do not appear on the RTPI - it could be a problem with the on-board equipment not sending a signal.

There can also be problems with heavy traffic (particularly at peak times in the city centre) that can result in buses taking longer than the original predictions.

However, I think that

-Chris- wrote: »

I don't trust it at all.

is being a bit harsh on it. That certainly would not be my experience.

The more feedback they get from users the better the system will be in the long run.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

There can also be problems with heavy traffic (particularly at peak times in the city centre) that can result in buses taking longer than the original predictions.

I don't really mind that so much as it means you'll still get your bus. Buses arriving early is a problem though.

lxflyer wrote: »

is being a bit harsh on it. That certainly would not be my experience.

If it is *consistently* unreliable you can't trust it, even if that reliability is 10% of the time. You will always be wondering is now one of those times that it's wrong.

ArmaniJeanss

Its close to 100% accurate on my main route the 38/A/B.

There are a handful of stops where it consistently underestimates and another few where it overestimates, both by just a few minutes, but I factor that in and I'll probably be caught out when they tweak it !!

Great system, Dublin Bus, kudos. Now if only you stop the farce of the 38A adding 10 minutes to its journey by going through Blanch village then everything would be good.

AngryLips

I think some cases where it is incorrect is where the stop is near the beginning of the route and so it's showing the timetabled time and not the real time. If there was a delay in the bus arriving at its terminus then that would delay the outbound journey also.

jd83

Ive been using it now through the app on my phone and it works good so far. Sometimes it can be a bit off. Considering it involves dublin bus im actually shocked its working so well.

markpb

jd83 wrote: »

Ive been using it now through the app on my phone and it works good so far. Sometimes it can be a bit off. Considering it involves dublin bus im actually shocked its working so well.

I think RPTI will fix DBs perception in Dublin. From my experience, a lot of bus routes in Dublin are very predictable but they appear unreliable and unpredictable. Telling people that a bus will arrive in 15 minutes makes that 15 minutes seem a lot shorter. Leaving them standing there with no idea how long they'll be waiting makes them feel like the service is unreliable.

schemingbohemia

I've generally found it very good with a few exceptions. The 14 stop outside Tara St Station has often been wrong. For some reason the 44 on Westland Row counts down fine until about 9 minutes to the time then disappears for a few minutes (leaving the next 44 showing up as in 50 minutes) then re-appears when the bus leaves the terminus.

This morning the DB website was showing the 0810 59 arriving at Hyde Road at 823 (which I should have realised was too early to get from Mackintosh Park) it didn't arrive until 832 but the website didn't change until 828 when I was already at the stop 6 minutes.

LXFlyer

I've noticed the same problem with the 14 - they can get stuck for several changes of lights at Amiens Street/Memorial Road which contributes to the problem.

Kumsheen

Is real time GPS data now provided for all bus stops, or is timetable data used in place of stops not covered?

If timetable data is used, how do you know on the website if the "due" time is real or just timetabled?

robd

Agree with the 90% of the time. Have been caught out once in the situation where a bus whizzes pass that isn't due for 5 mins. Was on Howth Road and used Android App (unofficial) to get time. Frustrating but it only happened once.

Also, not all stops are inputted. No data for my stop so I use the stop before.

Also, there's frequent problems at peak evening time with the Terminus (first) stop for 31's/32's and the 29a. Buses seem to magically appear and disappear, may not turn up and turn up unscheduled. Hard to know whats going on. At a guess I'd say when a bus gets stuck in traffic on previous run it can just fall off list.

Overall I've a positive experience. Would rate it in line with it's accuracy. So, 90% happy.

LXFlyer

Kumsheen wrote: »

Is real time GPS data now provided for all bus stops, or is timetable data used in place of stops not covered?



If timetable data is used, how do you know on the website if the "due" time is real or just timetabled?

Yes real time is provided for all stops but that obviously is dependent upon the bus having departed the terminus.

If it hasn't departed the times displayed are the scheduled times. However this is not indicated on the signs/app/text.

Therefore RTPI has far greater usefulness in the middle or latter sections of a route, given the timetable is more applicable at or near the terminus.

n97 mini

robd wrote: »

Have been caught out once in the situation where a bus whizzes pass that isn't due for 5 mins

Have been caught out by this and it's totally unacceptable when it's the last bus or a bus that's infrequent, like say every hour.

n97 mini

snappieT wrote: »

I suggest you use it whenever you find an issue so that they can investigate.

Do they reply or acknowledge your feedback? Or could it disappear off the system the same way the 67 did last week?

crushproof

Sent off feedback to TFI for route 7. Waited 55 minutes for a 7 yesterday, despite the info saying there would be one due in 6 minutes and then 23 minutes....neither turned up!! Despite the timetable saying it had a Sunday frequency of 20 minutes.
Same thing happened to me during the week...therefore so far I don't trust it at all yet.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes real time is provided for all stops but that obviously is dependent upon the bus having departed the terminus.

If it hasn't departed the times displayed are the scheduled times. However this is not indicated on the signs/app/text.

Therefore RTPI has far greater usefulness in the middle or latter sections of a route, given the timetable is more applicable at or near the terminus.

You would think this issue could be reduced by putting some indicator symbol (e.g. T) next to these entires. Perhaps not obvious for users looking at the screens, but apps and the website could use the indicator to give a more detailed explanation.

coylemj

Sometimes a particular route drops out of the RTPI, example was on Friday last when I was at the bus stop on the inbound slip road by UCD (stop 768). The display only showed 46A and 145 buses yet the 39A (of which the timetable claims there are 12 departures between 17:00 and 18:40 from UCD) didn't feature at all even though several of them passed by.

Oh and the 18:30 No. 3 (UCD to Larkhill) never turned up and since it was after 6 there was no phone number to ring, had to get a taxi to Sandymount to go to the rugby match.

Airports and railway stations announce when a particular service is cancelled, maybe the next phase of RTPI should do the same instead of leaving people waiting.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Oh and the 18:30 No. 3 (UCD to Larkhill) never turned up and since it was after 6 there was no phone number to ring, had to get a taxi to Sandymount to go to the rugby match.

What do you mean there's no phone number to ring?

The depots are all staffed till the last bus returns.

As per the website:

Telephone: (01) 8734222
Phone lines open: Monday to Saturday 08:30hrs – 18:00hrs (except public holidays)

Outside of above hours garage contact details are
Clontarf (01) 703 4616
Conyngham Road (01) 703 2172
Donnybrook (01) 703 4404
Harristown (01) 703 1104
Phibsboro (01) 703 3462
Ringsend (01) 703 4533
Summerhill (01) 703 3092

It is always worth carrying the depot number in your phone for exactly that eventuality.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

It is always worth carrying the depot number in your phone for exactly that eventuality.

Thanks, will do so in future.

If you're standing at the bus stop in the dark, that information is not available to you. The very large timetable sign at the UCD stop only mentions the information phone number that's available until 6 p.m. and on more than one occasion when I rang it at 17:40 or so nobody answered.

I did get an answer from the daytime service number once, got passed from Billy to Jack and the guy I ended up with told me the service I was waiting for was cancelled but I felt he really didn't have a clue what was going on. He only said the service was cancelled when I pressed him to say for definite if it was or was not going to show up, it was pretty obvious he hadn't a clue what was going on and cared less.

jack presley

I find it works well but I wasn't around for the recent floods so i don't know were there cases of the bus being '10 minutes' away for an eternity.

dfx-

markpb wrote: »

I think RPTI will fix DBs perception in Dublin. From my experience, a lot of bus routes in Dublin are very predictable but they appear unreliable and unpredictable. Telling people that a bus will arrive in 15 minutes makes that 15 minutes seem a lot shorter. Leaving them standing there with no idea how long they'll be waiting makes them feel like the service is unreliable.

I've found it to be dodgy enough with times, but this is a more long term benefit for DB I'd say.

Also it might enlighten people on major corridors just how good their service can be with six or seven options. I know for example there's people in Fairview and Rathmines who didn't know quite how many options into the city they have until the six line displays came about.

Bumblebee Man

On the 83 route towards town (at the Met Office). The number of times the information has gone 2 minutes.....1 minute.....due.....1 minute.....2 minutes.....1 minute.....due. To be fair I'm used to it now so can actually time it as it's happened pretty much everytime I've gotten it without fail.

n97 mini

66A missing off the system again tonight.

Mimikyu

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Dyr

Something to try when you're at a bus stop, check the RTPI on the display then check the RTPI on the dublin bus website, quite often you'll find discrepancies. Don't know how that happens if they're both pointed at the same data source

What really does my head in though is watching a bus come closer and closer on the RTPI display and then it drives past out of service. I wonder if these are showing in statistics as buses that actually ran? :mad:

By and large if you're in the city centre, I wouldnt take them as gospel, out closer to the terminus they tend to be more accurate.

Telchak

Story in todays Metro Herald about the accuracy of the signs during the testing phase. Seemed to range from 80& at some stops to 100% at others. There was also something about a stop in Ballymun, at which something 40% of scheduled buses didn't show up

LXFlyer

Bambi wrote: »

Something to try when you're at a bus stop, check the RTPI on the display then check the RTPI on the dublin bus website, quite often you'll find discrepancies. Don't know how that happens if they're both pointed at the same data source

What really does my head in though is watching a bus come closer and closer on the RTPI display and then it drives past out of service. I wonder if these are showing in statistics as buses that actually ran? :mad:

By and large if you're in the city centre, I wouldnt take them as gospel, out closer to the terminus they tend to be more accurate.

I couldn't really disagree with any of this.

The reason for possible discrepancies is dealt with on the Transport for Ireland website:

Why is the information on the RTPI Signs or Web or the SMS sometimes slightly different – e.g. the sign shows a bus due in 16 mins and the sms message says the same bus is due in 15 mins

Differences should be negligible. However because the information is coming from the same source it is being delivered through different channels with specific update rates, small differences can occur. Currently the service feeding the RTPI signs is channelled through a central server in Dublin City Council. The service feeding the website directly from the Dublin Bus System. For the SMS service the request must go through the SMS service provider, network operator and the source system.

Dyr

I've noticed more than just small differences in times though

KD345

Telchak wrote: »

Story in todays Metro Herald about the accuracy of the signs during the testing phase. Seemed to range from 80& at some stops to 100% at others. There was also something about a stop in Ballymun, at which something 40% of scheduled buses didn't show up

I wouldn't expect the system to be 100% during testing phase.

MOH

I've found the unofficial www.dublinbuslive.com to be more reliable than the bus stop displays, which can be a bit hit and miss.

jack presley

Is it all systems go now or are we still in the testing period?

I travel in the Navan Road during the week and I don't think there's been a day when all of the signs are active. Is there a reason why some are turned off on certain days?

Dub13

MOH wrote: »

I've found the unofficial www.dublinbuslive.com to be more reliable than the bus stop displays, which can be a bit hit and miss.

Surely that pulls the data from the same place so could not be more reliable..?

MOH

Dub13 wrote: »

Surely that pulls the data from the same place so could not be more reliable..?

I know, that's what I would have thought.
But for the stops I use regularly, the bus stop displays are sometimes off, while that site is always on the money. Probably just insanity on my part though

dazberry

Found it pretty reliable prior to the network direct changes, now there are huge gaps that sometimes contain buses that don't seem to register (51b/c -> 13).

Also with the cross city routes, a bus may be held so to guarantee a certain departure time from the city centre (i.e. last bus), so the displays can be sitting there alternating between due and 1 minute for 10 minutes because the bus is parked up on O'Connell st - overheard a driver explaining this to a woman who was complaining. It's a shame the displays can't reflect this.

D.

Mimikyu

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LXFlyer

From DB Facebook Page:

DublinBusNews
RTPI information will be unavailable for approximately one hour at 10:30hrs this morning to allow for maintenance work, apologies for any inconvenience caused.

dfx-

dazberry wrote: »

Found it pretty reliable prior to the network direct changes, now there are huge gaps that sometimes contain buses that don't seem to register (51b/c -> 13).

They are consistently missing buses at many stops. I got on a 122 out of nowhere on Dame St today. Next 122 was 12 minutes away, I was expecting a 9 and 123..but no 9 and a 122..

n97 mini

From what they're saying they are happy with 90%+ accuracy. Seems a bit low to me. One in ten buses wrong/missing etc.

FloatingVoter

Second night in a row the 27 has disappeared at 8.30 PM at the AIB (Dame ST.) stop. Hopefully the RTPI will be scrapped or fixed before Christmas. If the drivers are unable to use it, I'm sure a weeks unpaid training would jog their minds. Same for the programmers of the system. A 25 minute time lag is not explainable by GPS problems.

jack presley

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Second night in a row the 27 has disappeared at 8.30 PM at the AIB (Dame ST.) stop. Hopefully the RTPI will be scrapped or fixed before Christmas. If the drivers are unable to use it, I'm sure a weeks unpaid training would jog their minds. Same for the programmers of the system. A 25 minute time lag is not explainable by GPS problems.

Do the drivers have to do something? I thought it was automatic. Surely the GPS antenna (or whatever it is) can send the signal to the base without anyone having to flick a switch?

xper

n97 mini wrote: »

From what they're saying they are happy with 90%+ accuracy. Seems a bit low to me. One in ten buses wrong/missing etc.

Taking their lead from Irish Rail's trains-arriving-on-time criteria? :rolleyes:

Actually in my own experience, the system was doing very well for the routes I use (mainly on the N11 corridor) when first introduced but it seems to have disimproved drastically in the last couple of weeks - actually since about the time of the scheduled maintenance outage that ended up lasting about 24 hours. Coincidence?

Inactive signs,
Buses counting down to zero and nothing or a 'Sorry, Out of Service' vehicle passing
Buses magically appearing that aren't on the system
Buses taking significantly more or less time to actually arrive than shown at about the ten minute mark - I've missed a couple of infrequently running buses recently because of this.

The system continues to be having a particularly bad time dealing with predictions near the the beginning of a route - they really have to start factoring in late running duties.

The Stops Near Me service still isn't working south of about Foxrock Church/Cornelscourt.

Why oh why do some stops on Nassau Street have six-line signs and some have four-line signs? They all have loads of busy routes.

n97 mini

66A missing *again* tonight from the system. That's makes it 3 out of 3.

lil5

90% of what?

It's just showing the unreliable and disjointed reality of the DB network operations. Buses regulated away, taken out of service, running late, missed timetable departure times, ...

Not working properly again this morning. As previous posters have pointed out, the system has disimproved. One could say it's fitting in seamlessly with DB operations ...

As a daily commuter one get's to know some of the kinks in the system, but you'd trust it less every day.

I've heard from occasional bus users that they are very disappointed with the system (especially on the weekend) as they have been found the info inaccurate on almost every occasion they were relying on it. 'Back to the car' as one put it.

Stevek101

Personally it works 99% percent of the time for me. Got a few extra minutes to post this because of it.

Lombardo86

Ill defend it a little here..

When it first came out at my stops i found it very reliable and was able to plan the journey to work out and saved myself some time out of the cold in the mornings.

But lately (This morning as an example) i left when it said there was a bus coming (i live near the stop) no sign of that bus at all for the next few minutes.. like it disappeared.

Similarly, it said the next bus after this wasn't due for 28 minutes (At peak time?) but one came about ten minutes later.

I agree that this clearly can work, and it has been doing. But for the last two weeks something has definitely gone wrong.

captivo

Are the expresso buses supposed to appear on the system? The reason I ask is because the 84x is missing from the signs more often than not.:mad:

Mimikyu

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Dub13

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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I asked this on another thread,nobody seems to know.What I think happens is the bus does not appear on the RTPI if its doing a driver change,this may explain the phantom busses appearing.