Horrible incident at broad Street this morning

abouttobebanned

Has seriously left a mark on me.

A young woman was walking with her daughter (a toddler) and their little dog (toy size thing, not sure of the breed, but he'd fit in a handbag.)

Out of nowhere a pitbull terrier, seemingly owner and lead-less, grabs the little dog and runs off with it, tearing it like a toy. The woman is hysterical but can't run after it because of her daughter. Taxi drivers and passers and myself do everything we can to release the poor dog....kicking the pitbull until he eventually released the smaller dog. I had to leave but the last I saw was the tiny dog in a man's arms, with a paw hanging off and in a lot of shock.

People were frantically ringing guards and all sorts (who hadn't arrived after 15 minutes btw). A horrible scene that effected everyone that saw it.

Yes Boss

Why on earth are vicious dogs allowed anyway - muzzled or not? I don't buy - they are pets, they are lovely animals really, it's the owner...bla bla bla. There should be a complete ban on these types of animals.:mad:

Kells...

Any dog can do that though,it's just amplified cause of what breed it is.

Adyx

Yes Boss wrote: »

Why on earth are vicious dogs allowed anyway - muzzled or not? I don't buy - they are pets, they are lovely animals really, it's the owner...bla bla bla. There should be a complete ban on these types of animals.:mad:

It is the owners though. The majority of controlled breed dogs out there wouldn't do such a thing. I can only assume the dog wasn't under the control of it's owner at the time either so I know who I'd blame.

abouttobebanned

Yes, all dogs are unpredictable. Yes, the dog is often a reflection on its owner and how it was reared. However, don't tell me that a springer spaniel or a yorkshire terrier is as unpredictable as a Pitbull.

junglejim1

Any dog can do that though,it's just amplified cause of what breed it is.

Maybe, but type "savaged by dog" into google and note the guilty breeds, always the usual suspects.

Yes Boss

Adyx wrote: »

It is the owners though. The majority of controlled breed dogs out there wouldn't do such a thing. I can only assume the dog wasn't under the control of it's owner at the time either so I know who I'd blame.

But what is the attraction to a vicious breed of dog? What's going on there?

aN.Droid

junglejim1 wrote: »

Maybe, but type "savaged by dog" into google and note the guilty breeds, always the usual suspects.

Because the likes of those dog's usually attract the wrong kind of owner. I have seen some of the kindest dog's that would have been pit-bulls, bull staffs and others on the restricted breeds list. It is all down too the owner. If they don't correct dominant behaviour like this then ofcourse the dog is going to throw its weight around.

The reason you don't see smaller dog's doing this is because they don't have the muscle for it. Mentally they are all capable of it, but a jack ussell is just as capable of ripping the throat of another dog as a pit-bull is.

Ban the owners, not the dogs.

letsbet

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Yes, all dogs are unpredictable. Yes, the dog is often a reflection on its owner and how it was reared. However, don't tell me that a springer spaniel or a yorkshire terrier is as unpredictable as a Pitbull.

+1. Certain dogs are more prone to be vicious and that's why a lot of people buy such dogs. You'd be doing well to make a spaniel as vicious as a pitbull. Just because some pitbulls aren't vicious and some other breeds can be very rarely doesn't mean that it's wrong to generalise. Dogs like that just should not be off a lead as they are unpredictable and prone to crazy moments. The amount of times I've seen people out with dogs like these trying to say "ah don't worry he's a softy really" or something like that. Certain breeds should be banned or phased out. That's an awful story and must have been horrible to witness. The dogs will be probably put down but as people have said the owner is the one that should be heavily fined and held accountable for this (I almost said put down).

argosy2006

Where the hell was Superman!!!

letsbet

Limericks wrote: »

The reason you don't see smaller dog's doing this is because they don't have the muscle for it. Mentally they are all capable of it, but a jack ussell is just as capable of ripping the throat of another dog as a pit-bull is.

Ban the owners, not the dogs.

Why don't you see labradors or dogs like that throwing their weight around then? I agree that it's the owners' fault but with some breeds it's not in doubt that they're more prone to attacking. An even more unfortunate thing is that some big dogs get incorrectly labelled. German Shepherds for example are way more gentle than pitbulls as they were originally breed for herding and are more like collies than pit-bulls in their mentality.

chelloveks

Yes Boss wrote: »

But what is the attraction to a vicious breed of dog? What's going on there?

Just take a look at the vast majority of the owners of these pit bulls....every scumbag in NY has one of them. The poor dogs are aggressive to begin with and these dirtbags encourage the behavior and use them as a weapon and protection.

Was the dog captured? The owner should be prosecuted for leaving it free and hurting the poor little yapper it assaulted. I will bet you the owner is a scumbag too!

argosy2006

http://www.koreus.com/files/200404/pitbull_africain.jpg

pic of incident just released

Noo

That poor little dog, sounds just horrifying. But i can't help but imagine what would have happened if the little dog hadn't been there with the toddler being next in line and all.

chelloveks

argosy2006 wrote: »

http://www.koreus.com/files/200404/pitbull_africain.jpg

pic of incident just released

Ahhh but the lads in that pic must have had a tough childhood and thats why they own them types of pets.....Bring the boys over to Eire and give em a house and car and they'll be fine...poor fellas.

Nypd

Noo wrote: »

That poor little dog, sounds just horrifying. But i can't help but imagine what would have happened if the little dog hadn't been there with the toddler being next in line and all.

Definantley, it's sounds like a terrible incident.

aN.Droid

Noo wrote: »

That poor little dog, sounds just horrifying. But i can't help but imagine what would have happened if the little dog hadn't been there with the toddler being next in line and all.

Nothing probably. The dog got attacked because it is a dog. For a dog to attack a human it is VERY rare. Even the worst dog's out there won't attack a human unless the human does something to the dog first.

As far as never seeing a Labrador throwing it's weight around, ok they have a better temperament but how often do you see the bottom rung of society walk a Labrador around? . But I believe if the dog is reared properly then a pit bull can be just as loving and as friendly as a labrador.

argosy2006

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2737503/Cops-hunt-guide-dog-attack-beast.html

check this vid out, sums up owner and breed.
ATTACKS POOR GUIDE DOG DOING HIS JOB!

abouttobebanned

Argosy trying really hard to crack jokes about something that's not in the least bit funny.

letsbet

On a related point of dogs and the guards taking ages to turn up. There were travellers up in our estate the other day and were taunting a dog. They wouldn't stop and the dog was really distressed. We told them to **** off and they did what you might expect them to do. They then proceeded to run up and down the street into eveyone's garden and jumping on people's cars and intent on doing damage. They're always up here causing trouble so we rang the guards and how long did it take for the guards to turn up .... well it's four days and counting. Someone eventually chased them off but if there was any real trouble then the guards really would have something to answer. I know it's not a real crisis situation but you think you'd get some help from the police when you need them.

abouttobebanned

Unreal. Majority of guards in this country are as bad as the politicians. Love the power, love the quirks, hate the work.

letsbet

Limericks wrote: »

As far as never seeing a Labrador throwing it's weight around, ok they have a better temperament but how often do you see the bottom rung of society walk a Labrador around? . But I believe if the dog is reared properly then a pit bull can be just as loving and as friendly as a labrador.

You made my point for me. Thanks very much. There's a reason why you don't see people like that walking labradors around - because it would be too much work to make them as aggessive as they can easily make a pitbull or similar breed. I'm sure they could be loving and friendly but even if I had one I wouldn't leave it on its own with a toddler for example. You may say that they rarely attack people but they've savaged kids a lot more often than other breeds. Anyone can see that they're more prone to aggression and that's what they're bought for so they serve no useful purpose to society as people don't tend to get them as nice cuddly family pets. You can't trust people so unfortunately you need to ban these breeds.

Minstrel27

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Has seriously left a mark on me.

A young woman was walking with her daughter (a toddler) and their little dog (toy size thing, not sure of the breed, but he'd fit in a handbag.)

Out of nowhere a pitbull terrier, seemingly owner and lead-less, grabs the little dog and runs off with it, tearing it like a toy. The woman is hysterical but can't run after it because of her daughter. Taxi drivers and passers and myself do everything we can to release the poor dog....kicking the pitbull until he eventually released the smaller dog. I had to leave but the last I saw was the tiny dog in a man's arms, with a paw hanging off and in a lot of shock.

People were frantically ringing guards and all sorts (who hadn't arrived after 15 minutes btw). A horrible scene that effected everyone that saw it.

Did the pit bull get away?

aN.Droid

letsbet wrote: »

You made my point for me. Thanks very much. There's a reason why you don't see people like that walking labradors around - because it would be too much work to make them as aggessive as they can easily make a pitbull or similar breed. I'm sure they could be loving and friendly but even if I had one I wouldn't leave it on its own with a toddler for example. You may say that they rarely attack people but they've savaged kids a lot more often than other breeds. Anyone can see that they're more prone to aggression and that's what they're bought for so they serve no useful purpose to society as people don't tend to get them as nice cuddly family pets. You can't trust people so unfortunately you need to ban these breeds.

Actually you have made my point for me re the kind of owner that would typically have the pit bull. I am not making things up here. A dog's psyche is one that makes it so it will listen to it's master, that's how they are wired. The pack mentality is there. They will emulate there masters. If a dog does not have a caring owner who shows dominance over the dog in the correct way then it will either become a problem dog or it will become its own master and revert to feral instinct and that is one of protecting its territory. It will do anything to do this as it has not been taught otherwise.

I myself have a Labrador retriever and while she is one of the kindest dog's I have ever met, she will bark without end if another dog so looks at her territory which end's at our front gate. That is all she will do though and won't do it if I am around as she knows I am the master and will take care of the protecting of the territory from there on.

Again I reiterate, do something about the owners and not the breed.

letsbet

A dog barking at a dog on their territory and a dog attacking another dog is not quite the same thing. Most dogs are loyal so I have no idea what you're on about then. If you think that these breeds aren't more prone to aggression then you're nuts. What are you going to do to solve the owners? The answer is you can't do anything other than ban the dogs as you can't trust these owners to behave responsibly. Such dogs should be muzzled. Some aren't even on leads.

abouttobebanned

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Did the pit bull get away?

Was still walking amongst people as I left. And what's worse is, there was a couple with two poodle style dogs sitting outside a cafe, not a bother on them.

jayboi

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Was still walking amongst people as I left. And what's worse is, there was a couple with two poodle style dogs sitting outside a cafe, not a bother on them.

Do you reckon the little dog died?

Id say the child was distraught altogether?
At least a few people were willing to help out.

abouttobebanned

jayboi wrote: »

Do you reckon the little dog died?

Id say the child was distraught altogether?
At least a few people were willing to help out.

The poor thing was in shock. It was looking up at me with the saddest eyes and then i noticed its paw was bent back and there was bone sticking out.

jayboi

abouttobebanned wrote: »

The poor thing was in shock. It was looking up at me with the saddest eyes and then i noticed its paw was bent back and there was bone sticking out.

Hopefully they'll be able to sort out its leg. With a bit of luck the other dog will be caught and put to sleep and the owner will be found and held accountable

abouttobebanned

The Pitbull was starving...I was trying to tell the polish woman in the cafe to give him some food but she was having none of it. I only said it cause the two poodle type dogs were just sitting there and you'd never know what a hungry dog like that would do next.

seanybiker

Ah Jesus the poor little thing. Fair play for helping out.
I got a little jack Russel a few days ago. Really nervous chap. He has teeth marks on his snout and on the top of his head. Poor fella was treated horribly by whoever owned him before.


Wonder if I rang the vet would he tell us if the dog is grand

Max Powers

Im pretty sure there is legislation and licencing laws to prevent these types of dogs being owned by scum bags who dont have a clue. I was out in Tramore this morning and there were tens of dogs running around off their leads.

2 examples of laws being abused in Ireland and nobody gives $hit until something terrible like this happens. Are the gardai responsible for policing this, probabbly have some sort of responsibility but those who are their to enforce it couldnt be ar$ed doing anything about it. The law is there to be respected, yet Irish people think it is there was some sort of grey area guidance. This is why we end up with dogs running wild in city centres, people parking where they like, litter everywhere and in general a discourteous and ignorant society.

abouttobebanned

seanybiker wrote: »

Ah Jesus the poor little thing. Fair play for helping out.
I got a little jack Russel a few days ago. Really nervous chap. He has teeth marks on his snout and on the top of his head. Poor fella was treated horribly by whoever owned him before.


Wonder if I rang the vet would he tell us if the dog is grand

That's actually not a bad idea. I wonder which vet would he have been brought to. Everybody at the scene was visibly upset. The cries of the poor dog were so desperate that, almost instinctively, everyone picked up their phones...not even sure who to ring. The fact that after 15 minutes, the guards, located 60 seconds away, hadn't turned up is very annoying.

michellie

That sounds horrific, can't even look at those dogs they terrify me! Hopefully the little dog will be fine and thank god it wasn't the child.

That pitbull owner has some questions to answer! I pulled up outside my house yesterday and some fella was walkin his huge rotweiler (in a estate full of children) with no lead on, the minute I pulled up he looked at me , saw I was looking at the dog, THEN put the lead on. I don't trust any dog, we have a fairly tempermental old king Charles out in my mams. You just have to be extremely careful.

Kanoe

Just woke from a dream that my lilttle one was being eaten by a giant rat but I managed to pull her out of it's jaws. Scary, hope the little fella is alright.

I usually take my one in for a stroll on a Sunday too just glad I slept in today.
Reminds me though, when she was just a pup (size of a large hamster) we took her on one of her first trips to the park and a couple had two staffies running loose, they were at the other side of the pitch but once they spotted her they made a run for her. I tried to remain calm and not freak out but they were on top of us in seconds, picked her up shook her around like a rag doll and the owners came over and tried to get them to release her. They had grabbed her by the hind and she was fully engulfed in one's mouth. She was ok but shook up and I'm still weary when walking her in case something like that happens to us again.
I hate people who don't put their dog's on leads, makes life miserable for the rest of us.


[edit: as an aside I did contact the dog warden but got a 15 minute lecture on how staffys are grand dogs and its dogs like mine that are more likely to bite people...)

nkay1985

Noo wrote: »

That poor little dog, sounds just horrifying. But i can't help but imagine what would have happened if the little dog hadn't been there with the toddler being next in line and all.

That's a completely ridiculous comment. This dog is obviously vicious but think of how many other children etc that it had passed on it's way to the eventual attack and ask yourself why didn't it attack them. Dogs very, very rarely attack humans unless provoked.

The behaviour of this dog can't be excused but the only people talking sense are those talking about the owners being the problem. A pit bull/staffie/whatever raised in a good environment and treated well will be a lovely dog.

It's not that they are more prone to be aggressive than other common breeds, it's that they're raised that way and that, if a pit bull is aggressive, then they're going to be devastating because of the sheer power and strength of the animal.

I do think that you should be required to have a special license to own one of these dogs though. it would be very difficult to implement but you should have a proven track history of being a good owner before you're allowed to take on the care of one of these. Unfortunately, it's a free for all and it's the dregs of society who see them as a status symbol that tend to have them. Until is is resolved, they will continue to have a bad name and terrible incidents like this will continue to happen.

Inexcusable from the guards too. I'd like to think I'd have gone up the hill and demanded some attention in the station but the way they are, you'd probably end up being arrested and they still wouldn't go down.

letsbet

nkay1985 wrote: »

It's not that they are more prone to be aggressive than other common breeds, it's that they're raised that way.

This is just not true. The way they are raised makes them more aggressive but it's well-known that certain breeds are more predisposed to aggressive behaviour - just ask a vet or an expert in the area. It's what they are bred for and how they are bred. Why do you think scumbags don't try to make labradors or great danes into mean lean fighting machines. Anyone who argues that a pitbull can make a lovely pet and a more soft breed can become vicious is completely missing the point. These dogs are more prone to it - that's why they're bought by certain people. The nurture exaggerates what is natural in these dogs. To say that it is just the way they are raised is just plain wrong. Maybe the reputation of all dogs of a certain breed is exaggerated and some more friendly breeds get away lightly in the same way that sharks are seen as vicious and dolphins are sweet. Still, I know which type I'd rather swim with!

andreac

letsbet wrote: »

This is just not true. The way they are raised makes them more aggressive but it's well-known that certain breeds are more predisposed to aggressive behaviour - just ask a vet or an expert in the area. It's what they are bred for and how they are bred. Why do you think scumbags don't try to make labradors or great danes into mean lean fighting machines. Anyone who argues that a pitbull can make a lovely pet and a more soft breed can become vicious is completely missing the point. These dogs are more prone to it - that's why they're bought by certain people. The nurture exaggerates what is natural in these dogs. To say that it is just the way they are raised is just plain wrong. Maybe the reputation of all dogs of a certain breed is exaggerated and some more friendly breeds get away lightly in the same way that sharks are seen as vicious and dolphins are sweet. Still, I know which type I'd rather swim with!

Sorry but you havent a clue about dogs, pitbulls especially. I really wish people wouldnt post such crap about dogs being more aggressive than others because of the breed it is:mad:
These dogs are not more prone to it at all.The only reason certain dogs are vicious is because of humans making them that way, not because of the breed it is!!!

letsbet

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but you havent a clue about dogs, pitbulls especially. I really wish people wouldnt post such crap about dogs being more aggressive than others because of the breed it is:mad:
These dogs are not more prone to it at all.The only reason certain dogs are vicious is because of humans making them that way, not because of the breed it is!!!

Thanks for your well-thought out reply :rolleyes: I know quite a bit about dogs and if you read quite a lot about them you'll find that the consensus is that certain breeds are more prone to aggression than others as they are bred for it. Just saying that's wrong with no reasoning isn't very clever. Maybe you should tell the people lecturing in veterinary studies that they're wrong and know less than you. All people who buy pitbulls and the likes mustn't have a clue either as why don't they buy other breeds.

thegreengoblin

Really sorry to hear about this. These type of incidents send me into a rage when I hear about them. I hope the poor little thing will be okay and that the mother and child will not be too affected by what happened. I have young kids myself and I hate to think about the little girl having to witness something like this.

People can go on all they want about how it's the owners who have to be more responsible, etc. Rubbish. The vast majority of these owners are dangerous scum who should be behind bars in the first place, and they most certainly shouldn't be allowed own pitbulls or similar breeds of dogs. But the fact remains that if these dogs were banned then these kinds of incidents would not happen.

byhookorbycrook

Breeding has everything to do with it. If animals did not take on traits of them sire/dams why would people pay milions for stallions and avoid breeding from certain mares?

letsbet

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Breeding has everything to do with it. If animals did not take on traits of them sire/dams why would people pay milions for stallions and avoid breeding from certain mares?

Exactly. I have a springer spaniel and people will pay thousands for ones from certain lines as they have all the necessary qualities. Without needing to be shown what to do a dog will show the traits bred into them. For example, my dog loves chasing birds and making them fly away (as that's the primary role of a springer, hence the name), has a soft bite (as they are bred not to pierce the game when they retrieve it), loves retrieving and is good in thick cover. She also doesn't mind loud bangs like fireworks and bangers as they are bred not to be gunshy. Now you could make any dog good at these with a lot of training but in certain breeds it comes naturally to them. In the same way you could train a labrador to become really aggressive but it'd be a lot harder to do than it would be with other breeds. Aggression is one of the characteristics bred into certain dogs as that's what they were needed for. To say that certain breeds aren't prone to aggression (or any inhereted behaviour) ignores the laws of genetics. Note: the word prone doesn't mean that all such dogs are more aggressive than other breeds it means they are more naturally predisposed to it. Of course the nurture side of things accentuates these traits but to say that it's all nurture is almost laughable and shows a complete lack of understanding of genetics and dog breeding.

Bullseye1

Yes Boss wrote: »

Why on earth are vicious dogs allowed anyway - muzzled or not? I don't buy - they are pets, they are lovely animals really, it's the owner...bla bla bla. There should be a complete ban on these types of animals.:mad:

Not to make little of the OPs shocking story but this post shows that we have learnt nothing over the years. This is 100% down to the owner of the PB. It is not he dog who should be punished but the owner. There are far too many dreadful owners of dogs who require strict control.

thomasm

Fair play to OP for doing something

Gingersnaps

nkay1985 wrote: »

That's a completely ridiculous comment. This dog is obviously vicious but think of how many other children etc that it had passed on it's way to the eventual attack and ask yourself why didn't it attack them. Dogs very, very rarely attack humans unless provoked./QUOTE]

That's not true. It's not rare for a dog to attack humans unless provoked. I've often had dogs snapping at my ankles while I've been out cycling. Also when I've been running in the phoenix park, I've had situations where dogs, although with their owners but unleashed have ran at me snapping and biting at my ankles even though I would not be even close to their owner. In no way was I provoking the dogs.

nkay1985

thegreengoblin wrote: »

But the fact remains that if these dogs were banned then these kinds of incidents would not happen.

Sure the scum would just find another breed to corrupt and in five years' time we'd be haing the same argument about a different breed.

I should have said that the cycle with pitbulls in self-perpetuating. Because they're seen as vicious, they're bought by people who want vicious dogs, which mean there are then people who breed the dogs badly in order to make more vicious dogs. The pitbull as a breed is not more prone to be aggressive.

Whatever about the rest of these points, check out point 9 here.

And letsbet, in your reply to andreac you say that her just saying "you're wrong" with no reasoning isn't clever. What exactly are you doing so? Ridiculous!

letsbet

nkay1985 wrote: »

Sure the scum would just find another breed to corrupt and in five years' time we'd be haing the same argument about a different breed.

I should have said that the cycle with pitbulls in self-perpetuating. Because they're seen as vicious, they're bought by people who want vicious dogs, which mean there are then people who breed the dogs badly in order to make more vicious dogs. The pitbull as a breed is not more prone to be aggressive.

Whatever about the rest of these points, check out point 9 here.

And letsbet, in your reply to andreac you say that her just saying "you're wrong" with no reasoning isn't clever. What exactly are you doing so? Ridiculous!

I was giving reasoning! If you think that in five years with selective breeding that we'd have the same problem with a different breed then you must think they're going to reinvent genetics. It takes a long time to breed aggression into a breed. It wasn't in some of the current problem breeds 50 years ago but was bred into them.

deisedave

letsbet wrote: »

I was giving reasoning! If you think that in five years with selective breeding that we'd have the same problem with a different breed then you must think they're going to reinvent genetics. It takes a long time to breed aggression into a breed. It wasn't in some of the current problem breeds 50 years ago but was bred into them.

Bull type dogs are lovely breeds and very calm dogs. Problem is scum buy them to make them vicious, because they are so muscly they do alot more damage than a JRT would do if it attacked. Bull breeds should in no way be banned anyone who suggests that is ignorant of dogs.

In fact I just got a new "Pitbull type" dog for a friend for my king charles cavalier

The owner of the pitbull should be prosecuted in todays incident.

nkay1985

letsbet wrote: »

I was giving reasoning! If you think that in five years with selective breeding that we'd have the same problem with a different breed then you must think they're going to reinvent genetics. It takes a long time to breed aggression into a breed. It wasn't in some of the current problem breeds 50 years ago but was bred into them.

You didn't. You just said that you know quite a bit about dogs and that if people did a bit of reading they'd see that the consensus is that same as you think. None of that is reasoning! If that's the case I, or anybody else, can just say we know even more about dogs and having done more reading than you on the topic have found that the consensus is the opposite to your view. Get me?

Either way, I've said my piece and am not goign to continue any further as it's taking away from the original topic.

In terms of today's incident the dog will have to be put down and its owner should be prosecuted but that's unlikely to happen. I hope the little dog is ok.

YumDeiseMum

deisedave wrote: »

The owner of the pitbull should be prosecuted in todays incident.

Agree 100%

The owner of ANY dog, irrespective of breed should be prosecuted when it attacks.

thegreengoblin

Although I didn't see this incident I just can't get it out of my head. If anyone knows what happened to the injured dog maybe they could post something. Hopefully the little thing might not have been too badly hurt.