Building a quality website on a shoestring!

The Clown Man

Hi Folks,

I'm wondering has anyone else encountered what I'm encountering right now and if anyone has any advice to pass on!

Let me outline where I am right now and how I got there:

I actually started off as a consultant/sole trader right out of college (while doing a post-grad entrepreneurial course with Enterprise Ireland) but I wound that up after 3 years. I've been working for the man (a blue-chip multinational) for the last 5 odd years for the benefit of gaining experience and the whole time I've watched opportunity after opportunity pass me by (and watched them be highly successful for others). But now, I'm not going to let this one go by because it will likely drive me nuts and I know it is a sure bet!

I have a full business plan put together for an online retail operation with realistic financial projections showing a good initial cashflow and excellent prospects for growth. I've run this by a fair few people from very successful ecommerce entrepreneurs and accountants to government ministers and the feedback has been unanimously excellent. The problem is that there is literally no money out there for startups unless you are willing to give away 80% of your business from the very off!

I'm told by my accountant that banks will not lend unless there is a successful business already in place (and even then rarely) and in order to apply for seed capital, again, you need to have a business up and running (not to mention that it will take a number of months from first application to actually go through).

So to get started I need a company set up which is registered for VAT, which I'm in the process of doing at the moment. This will allow me to open dialogue with distributors and register a .ie domain. The goal is to start trading as soon as possible and start applying for a loan and/or seed capital, both of which I'm quite confident I can get.

I do have a pot of cash of course but my issue is that if I commit this to a website, I will likely cripple the startup. So I in order to trade I need to build a site with minimum initial cost. I could go for something like shopify but because the site quality is key, my very strong preference would be to seek a web design company or individual that could offer flexible payment options or would take a stake in the company.

Does anyone have any experience in a similar environment? Are there companies out there that offer special payment terms to startups? I assume that in the current credit climate companies need to be creative about generating new business ... I hope! Are there many developers out there that would be open to partnering on projects like this and if so, where do I find them?

Are there any other creative solutions out there that I should consider? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

xshayx

I've had successful experiences using findafreelancer.com - once you pick someone with good feedback! Its not as cheap to get someone as it used to be, but might be an option.

EIREHotspur

shopify offers a templates design ready website.
You get a Content management system built in.....if you can workyour way around an email account and send attachments then you can probably work this ok.

As long as you pay their template fee & monthly fees I don't see a problem?

Swampy

Bigcommerce is a great shopping cart system. Excellent back end stuff. All you would need is a good designer to make it look up to scratch.

Pixelcraft

EIREHotspur wrote: »

As long as you pay their template fee & monthly fees I don't see a problem?

I don't think a template will cut it for a serious venture - but without knowing details it's hard to know - maybe it will work for a few months until you (hopefully) build capital?

Ideally you should be looking to get a designer on board on a permanent basis, as websites these days are more of an evolutionary process, that's easier said than done though - it would need to be a very attractive offer as most as in high demand.

Shopify is a great system, don't discount it even if you do decide on hiring/partnering with a designer.

antoinolachtnai

Is having an absolutely excellent website really absolutely key? You say it is, but what about the other aspects of what you sell. What about quality and price. What about promotion? Can you build your business on those and come back around and improve the design side when you have some cashflow?

RATM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Is having an absolutely excellent website really absolutely key? You say it is, but what about the other aspects of what you sell. What about quality and price. What about promotion? Can you build your business on those and come back around and improve the design side when you have some cashflow?

I'd agree. A good website is important but if it is not ranking highly in the search engines then nobody will be able to find it.

OP 99designs.com might be of use to you. Do consider your SEO strategy before embarking on this venture, no point having a wonderful site if it isn't getting traffic.

YouBuyLocal

The problem is that there is literally no money out there for startups unless you are willing to give away 80% of your business from the very off!

I am developing a website, launching in 2-4 weeks. Spent a year and a half on this 18 month rubiks cube, started with no experience, money or technical skills. Now I nearly have a platform developed with a team of 3 devs and one designer. I have retained 58% of the company. I am also 25. There are no templates for my very particular spec, but we are using an open-sourced social platform called Elgg, which is proving very particular and difficult for the devs to work with, but over all is excellent because it maintains a structure to the development with all devs forced to code in the same fashion. This means it is easier for them to understand each other's code because they didn't know each other prior.

This can be done, you can get a dev team together, post an ad on grad Ireland, search for devs through all of your connections, find adventurous ones, the guys willing to take a chance on something cool. Then split the shares in class A & class B whereby you have an option to buy back class-Bs for a set price within a certain time frame. This means if it is a smaller business than expected they get more of it, but if it is big then you keep control.

HubHouse.org and incubator events are good places to meet devs. There will be lots of people there though, searching for devs as they are in high demand. You need to find the dev that doesn't know people are looking for him. That guy/girl is not gonna put himself out there, so you have to put feelers put everywhere.

We are searching for a new designer and dev because the workload is massive. Its very tough, but can be done.

And ignore everyone that complains that you should pay people, some devs will bitch that you are cheeky for even considering the idea as they believe that you are just trying to rip them off. Only you know whether or not you are trying to rip them off, so stick with your own conscience.

One more thing, always learn about the guy for a while. Never pitch him. Work it into the conversation and try to do him a favour as soon as you figure out a way to help him. Then he will be more receptive.

The Clown Man

Thanks for all the replies folks! Really appreciate the advice and opinion!

I am certainly keeping shopify in mind but I would probably only use it as a last resort if I could not find any other option. I'll also keep bigcommerce in mind if I manage to secure one designer with less experience in retail site design - thanks for highlighting it!

I've also had a look at elance which is similar to findafreelander but I'm not sure there are many options around flexible payment schedules to make them viable in the circumstances.

The reason that I consider the design of the website key and the reason I hope to engage directly with the designer is that the site will be targeted at a technically proficient customer base. I believe a lower quality website will almost act as a repellent in this market. The marketing strategy and the pricing model that I intend to employ is of course key but the look and feel of the website rounds off the list of top priorities for me.

In terms of SEO, because I'm targeting a niche market and because alerting the initial market to the service is not as complex as it may be in other markets, I don't consider SEO to be of the highest priority at this point, at least not so much that I would commit a significant portion of early capital to it separately. My intent is that the designer will account for SEO in so far as possible in the first build and then expand on it from there once I have a little more money to spend on a SEO specialist. Does that make sense?

99designs.com looks like an excellent service and I'll definitely keep that in mind when I do find a suitable solution. Thanks for that!

YouBuyLocal, congratulations on the immanent launch of your site, it sounds like you have done exactly what the title of the thread suggests and I really appreciate the advice. I might send you a PM separately to learn a little more about your particular experiences if you don't mind.

Any other ideas and/or advice is very much appreciated.

Thanks!

EIREHotspur

Pixelcraft wrote: »

I don't think a template will cut it for a serious venture - but without knowing details it's hard to know - maybe it will work for a few months until you (hopefully) build capital?

Ideally you should be looking to get a designer on board on a permanent basis, as websites these days are more of an evolutionary process, that's easier said than done though - it would need to be a very attractive offer as most as in high demand.

Shopify is a great system, don't discount it even if you do decide on hiring/partnering with a designer.

I agree but he said he was reticent about devoting a large amount of his start up cash on the website.

Thats why people go the Templates way.

Swampy

Another quick one... I hire developers, designers etc from odesk all the time.

It's an excellent site with thousands of great freelancers. A big plus is that it takes screenshots of their work as they are doing it and you can see it in their work diary. This way you know they are not lying about their hours.

connundrum

Can the local enterprise board not assist with funding etc?

I've registered a company name, and will register a relevant domain name shortly.

Then I'll go to www.gettingbusinessonline.ie and let them build a basic site which will assist in starting up the site and give me a platform to build from.

Is there no one I can go to for further funding with this plan?

Please poke holes in this idea, as the hope is to get my site built for as little as possible.

deman

Have a look at wosbee.com

I set up my webshop there for nothing. Browse around the top rated sites at the bottom of the page to see what it can do. I thoroughly recommend it. And best of all, it's free and there are no hidden costs. Even though it's Finnish, there are webshops from all over the world using it. And it has multi-language support.

Trojan

This thread seems to be offering 2 solutions: web developers as freelancers, or web developers as partner/shareholders.

The main issue with the former is still going to be cost, even if they're relatively inexpensive. The issue with the latter is that you're going to have to find someone is good at what they do AND is actively looking for a project or at the very least, willing to consider it.

If you're going down the route of shareholder/partners one problem Pixelcraft mentioned is high demand of good people. Many developers are approached with ideas on a regular basis, often the terms of which are "I have a great idea, you do all the work and I'll give you a small percentage" - and frequently the implication is the developer doesn't have any business ideas of their own This forum and the Design forum have plenty of past examples of this kind of request.

That said, it's not impossible. Try make a profile of the ideal partner for you - I'd consider looking for someone who was a developer for an agency for several years, maybe recently laid off, and has not yet gone freelance. Use word of mouth, and try networking at some of the startup networks, e.g. DCEB Link network, etc.

(Meta: I used "developer" where you can possibly substitute "designer" above.)

condra

Great advice from YouBuyLocal.

By the way, are you planning on selling physical goods or downloads or a service?

The Clown Man

connundrum wrote: »

Can the local enterprise board not assist with funding etc?

I've registered a company name, and will register a relevant domain name shortly.

Then I'll go to www.gettingbusinessonline.ie and let them build a basic site which will assist in starting up the site and give me a platform to build from.

Is there no one I can go to for further funding with this plan?

Please poke holes in this idea, as the hope is to get my site built for as little as possible.

There are a few ways you can go for funding through local enterprise but the best start is to go through the process of a feasibility study. You'll get some small funding based on your investment to carry out the study (and if you have a business plan/feasibility study already put together you can be creative with how you spend your time studying!)

The real benefit of this though is to be brought into the enterprise system as a budding business and potentially be eligible for further funding.

Depending on what your site is going to sell and where to, you might then be eligible to apply for funding through the BES (Business Expansion Scheme) and/or apply for Seed Capital. You can get tax back on your initial investment up to 41% if you were earning into this tax bracket over the past few years and this also provides extra incentive to investors who can do the same.

If you reach 10 employees or more you move on to Enterprise Ireland who have a number of funding options from there.

Best thing really is to contact your local enterprise board and find out what is the best route to take. Talking to an experienced accountant would be another good step.

Good luck!

The Clown Man

Thanks Trojan for the advice, putting together a partner profile would probably be a good idea but where would be best to place it? The local enterprise networking forums are certainly going to be somewhere I look to tap into for networking links but the only one I have attended before was in Louth and at the time it was relatively sparse and seriously diverse! How many people show up for the Dublin meets do you know?

As far as seeking a partner is concerned, I'd only go for it if I got an offer from a highly experienced person from an e-commerce background actively looking for a project.

I have had people message me even from this thread so I'm sure there are a few out there, and actually, I might add to the "seeking" post in the design forum (I didn't even know it was there - thanks ) no harm in keeping my options open!

Just to anyone else that might PM, the scope of this project is large, the design not at all standard, and it is not something that can be done part-time I'm afraid. It could be a design project of a number of months at least and an evolution of sorts. Thanks though for PMing - I've replied to all separately of course and I do appreciate you reaching out.

Given the scope of the project the strong likelihood is that I'll go for a company if I can find one with the right skills and experience which is willing to be flexible around payment. My original thought was that an ambitious start-up might be a great fit (and mutually beneficial in terms of portfolio) and I'll keep looking. Does anyone have any ideas on where I might find one of these?

Condra, it will be physical goods sold to the Irish market initially and the European market after a year or so. And there is far more than just a website to this - there will be a full business running in the background - but the website is the sales portal.