Beef AI/Bulls MEGATHREAD

SuperTeeJay

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Ulsan off at PT calving at 24 months to the Beguin son in Nov

An Ulsan heifer here quite similar to yours with an Ivor bull calf.Her granddams a parthenaise.She's very quiet.

DukeCaboom

SuperTeeJay wrote: »

An Ulsan heifer here quite similar to yours with an Ivor bull calf.Her granddams a parthenaise.She's very quiet.

There a great mix i think.

Biscuitus

If Gazelle(ZAG) is praised as a replacement bull then why does he have minus milk?

How are his heifers milky if his milk is in the minus. With so many people reporting his daughters don't have milk that its in a minus would he not be a bad replacement bull.

charolais0153

Biscuitus wrote: »

If Gazelle(ZAG) is praised as a replacement bull then why does he have minus milk?

How are his heifers milky if his milk is in the minus. With so many people reporting his daughters don't have milk that its in a minus would he not be a bad replacement bull.

Who said he's a replacement bull

Mac Taylor

Biscuitus wrote: »

If Gazelle(ZAG) is praised as a replacement bull then why does he have minus milk?

How are his heifers milky if his milk is in the minus. With so many people reporting his daughters don't have milk that its in a minus would he not be a bad replacement bull.

That’s the problem with the stars......on the replacement index milk is only one of a number of scores. I have a zag pbr who is good for milk as was her mother. If used on a leggy milky cow...... ideal bull.

Biscuitus

charolais0153 wrote: »

Who said he's a replacement bull

Everyone. Dovea, Progressive Genetics etc He's marketed as a replacement bull in their catalogues

Mac Taylor wrote: »

That’s the problem with the stars......on the replacement index milk is only one of a number of scores. I have a zag pbr who is good for milk as was her mother. If used on a leggy milky cow...... ideal bull.

But isn't that the most important? You'd be breeding less milk into your replacements. I just find it odd he has such a low score in milk but he's praised as a high replacement sire. There are other bulls in the catalogue with way more milk, just as easy calving, more docility, more performance but are way down on the replacement index and not marketed as one.

Hard Knocks

Biscuitus wrote: »

Everyone. Dovea, Progressive Genetics etc He's marketed as a replacement bull in their catalogues



But isn't that the most important? You'd be breeding less milk into your replacements. I just find it odd he has such a low score in milk but he's praised as a high replacement sire. There are other bulls in the catalogue with way more milk, just as easy calving, more docility, more performance but are way down on the replacement index and not marketed as one.

Calving difficulty has a higher weight in the replacement index than milk or daughter calving difficulty
Personally I think milk and daughter calving difficulty should have highest

Biscuitus

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Calving difficulty has a higher weight in the replacement index than milk or daughter calving difficulty
Personally I think milk and daughter calving difficulty should have highest

I agree. Calving difficulty depends on so many other things that it's not as simple as "easy, average, mature only" and then easy calving can cause the daughters to have smaller pelvis which results in harder calving. Replacements aren't much good if they can't calve or produce milk. I'd be interested in seeing how they get some of these figures for milk.

dh1985

Biscuitus wrote: »

Everyone. Dovea, Progressive Genetics etc He's marketed as a replacement bull in their catalogues



But isn't that the most important? You'd be breeding less milk into your replacements. I just find it odd he has such a low score in milk but he's praised as a high replacement sire. There are other bulls in the catalogue with way more milk, just as easy calving, more docility, more performance but are way down on the replacement index and not marketed as one.

Trying to interpret the way the icbf calculate the star system is a waste of time. Top Cows here producing weanlings for over a decade, all weights and adg easily calculated and sale price more than likely available to them also. 365 day calving, quiet, lots of milk. One star. Average breeders with the same data behind them 5 stars. It's pure BS and only an average guide at best. The cynic in me could says it's more interested in keeping lads in jobs "analysing data and crunching numbers". Or keeping AI companies to the fore with their next big superstar. The replacement superstar AI LM bull HCA jumps to mind. Remember that lad. Only use I see it for is it's a handy few quid for doing damn all to collect.

Edit to say just found data for HCA from an AI catalogue from 2015. Replacement index of 209 5 star "best available" at the time. He's at 1 star and a index of 55 as of today. Would look well banking on those calculations.

antrimite

This cow got straw of Scotsman the Shorthorn from AI services in November.. due late summer.. anyone used him? We went for an easy calver as she’ll be outside and hopefully no horns to have to take off in the autumn

tanko

Biscuitus wrote: »

Everyone. Dovea, Progressive Genetics etc He's marketed as a replacement bull in their catalogues



But isn't that the most important? You'd be breeding less milk into your replacements. I just find it odd he has such a low score in milk but he's praised as a high replacement sire. There are other bulls in the catalogue with way more milk, just as easy calving, more docility, more performance but are way down on the replacement index and not marketed as one.

I doubt if you ever saw ZAG marketed as a replacement bull in the Dovea catalogues.
When ZAG clicks with a cow he can produce super calves but they can be a bit small sometimes.
I have two ZAG cows here that have had three calves now, they’re not the best cows i have and lack a bit of milk but they’re quiet, very fertile and haven’t caused me much bother.

Put him on most of the cows here the year he came out, haven’t used him much since, there’s better options out there no matter what you’re trying to achieve like ZGM and LM2014.
If I was using PG only and bred my own replacements i’d use Curaheen Earp every time over ZAG, he’s not suitable for heifers but i don’t think ZAG is either.

Seaba

We have a pet of a Belgian Blue cow out of VDC. Been trying for a heifer for ages but no luck. She is 14 years now but still in great shape. We are going to try her one more time.
The only thing is that despite being of just good muscle herself the last few limousins (ZAG and the old PAN) and Fiston have resulted in very well muscled animals - all U grade in the factory. Even if they were heifers we wouldn’t have kept them as replacements.
Any suggestions as to what bull to give her (not Saler, AA, Parenth or Blondes)? She has good milk herself, average height.
Thanks

Seanhorse91

Seaba wrote: »

We have a pet of a Belgian Blue cow out of VDC. Been trying for a heifer for ages but no luck. She is 14 years now but still in great shape. We are going to try her one more time.
The only thing is that despite being of just good muscle herself the last few limousins (ZAG and the old PAN) and Fiston have resulted in very well muscled animals - all U grade in the factory. Even if they were heifers we wouldn’t have kept them as replacements.
Any suggestions as to what bull to give her (not Saler, AA, Parenth or Blondes)? She has good milk herself, average height.
Thanks

Castleview casino CWI could be a good option for her, he’s breeding very good fertile females. You could go all out and put a Wilodge Cerberus straw into her, set you back €70/€80 a straw, but a proven breeder of top class females

Biscuitus

dh1985 wrote: »

Trying to interpret the way the icbf calculate the star system is a waste of time. Top Cows here producing weanlings for over a decade, all weights and adg easily calculated and sale price more than likely available to them also. 365 day calving, quiet, lots of milk. One star. Average breeders with the same data behind them 5 stars. It's pure BS and only an average guide at best. The cynic in me could says it's more interested in keeping lads in jobs "analysing data and crunching numbers". Or keeping AI companies to the fore with their next big superstar. The replacement superstar AI LM bull HCA jumps to mind. Remember that lad. Only use I see it for is it's a handy few quid for doing damn all to collect.

Edit to say just found data for HCA from an AI catalogue from 2015. Replacement index of 209 5 star "best available" at the time. He's at 1 star and a index of 55 as of today. Would look well banking on those calculations.

5 star to 1 star says it all about ICBF. I hope its abolished in favour for a better scheme.

tanko wrote: »

I doubt if you ever saw ZAG marketed as a replacement bull in the Dovea catalogues.
When ZAG clicks with a cow he can produce super calves but they can be a bit small sometimes.
I have two ZAG cows here that have had three calves now, they’re not the best cows i have and lack a bit of milk but they’re quiet, very fertile and haven’t caused me much bother.

Put him on most of the cows here the year he came out, haven’t used him much since, there’s better options out there no matter what you’re trying to achieve like ZGM and LM2014.
If I was using PG only and bred my own replacements i’d use Curaheen Earp every time over ZAG, he’s not suitable for heifers but i don’t think ZAG is either.

Sorry. I meant to say Munster Bovine. So many AI companies operating in Ireland now. I'll look into Curaheen Earp.

charolais0153

Seaba wrote: »

We have a pet of a Belgian Blue cow out of VDC. Been trying for a heifer for ages but no luck. She is 14 years now but still in great shape. We are going to try her one more time.
The only thing is that despite being of just good muscle herself the last few limousins (ZAG and the old PAN) and Fiston have resulted in very well muscled animals - all U grade in the factory. Even if they were heifers we wouldn’t have kept them as replacements.
Any suggestions as to what bull to give her (not Saler, AA, Parenth or Blondes)? She has good milk herself, average height.
Thanks

Cavelands jolly

tanko

charolais0153 wrote: »

Cavelands jolly

Have you got calves off Cavelands Jolly?

Have three calves off Brooklands Marco here, very good shape to them, would work best on bigger framed cows i think.

charolais0153

tanko wrote: »

Have you got calves off Cavelands Jolly?

Have three calves off Brooklands Marco here, very good shape to them, would work best on bigger framed cows i think.

Not yet , but I've seen a few cows off him, only 2nd calvers and terrific square animals , great pelvises.

Marco looks like a eby type bull more than a cow maker imo

bogman_bass

A Killerwick Lancelot heifer out of a SimX Cow. 3 months old

(top marks for sorting out the photo posting)

Seanhorse91

Pair of Loyal (Lm4184) heifers this morning

tanko

Nice heifers, will you keep them for breeding?

Have put Loyal on some cows here this year.

Seanhorse91

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613704#Comment_117613704

Ya they’ll be kept. Lady furthest away was Ai’d to Ivor a month ago, she’ll be calving around 25 months. Heifer nearest is just gone 13 months so I’ll give her a chance and leave her til next spring.

Loyal is very easy calved, similar cattle to Eby off him I find, and probably easier calved

The Real Elmer Fudd

Two 3 month old bull calves off LM5443 doing well. Both are off 24 month old first calvers and both dams are LM2014 x EBY

LM5443 seems to be throwing nice calves. Have used him again on this years heifers.

tanko

Nice calves, Marco seems to be a real good bull, brings great muscle/shape in a cow with a bit of size to her, looks to be easy calved too.

What do you think of Ivor for breeding replacements?

Have you tried Cavelands Jolly?

patsy_mccabe

Would it be soon to AI a cow just 3 weeks after calving?

Have a cow here bulling this morning but AI guy thought it too soon.

ABitofsense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687928#Comment_117687928

My AI man won't/doesn't recommend either. He says only on 2nd bulling to do it.

Saying that my father bulled one after 3 weeks last year by mistake & she "repeated" after. She calved on the 1st AI date though.

The Real Elmer Fudd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686463#Comment_117686463

The heifers where a little on the small side and needed a little pull with the Jack at calving but nothing major. They’re growing on well now. The heifers themselves where heifers calves and calved at 23 and 24 months so left them a little on the small side.

Happy enough with Ivor as replacements. Wouldn’t have a massive amount of milk as 1st calvers but they have improved a lot milk wise as 2nd and 3rd calvers. Tend to be very quiet cattle from my experience.

The calf in the picture is out of an Ivor (LM2014) 3rd calver x BB2247. Calved unassisted and great temperament

ABitofsense

I see the love for roan heifers is still mad as ever this year. I personally don't see it but each to their own. My father wants me to try buy one 🙄 as I need to buy a few replacements this year, will they breed roan again if crossed with Limousin?

Who2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117782005#Comment_117782005

Some will but more often than not they will have a lot less roan than the mother. Most well marked heifers will be a lm out of a blue cow. I’ve three heifers here out of what I’d call a traditional type. All out of the same bull. One is all red, one is nicely marked but more splashes of roan in a few spots and the other is roan. The same cow calved a pure red bull this year.

ABitofsense

How is Gamin turning out for breeding replacements? I hopefully have a few cows in-calf to him.

Baalbec10

I know this is way off topic but hopefully some of ye will have good advice. We are taking in calf heifers to a mart shortly and want them looking good on the day. We don't want them dirtying themselves and have seen other cattle at mart that would be very clean. Do people feed cattle hay before a sale to dry them up?